Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Wall Street Flash Blob

Wall Street Flash Blob (Page 5)
Thread Tools
sek929
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 08:41 PM
 


Yeah, nothing violent about the Tea Partiers.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Zip, Boom, Bam
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 08:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
"Capitalism" (a Marxist term for free-market economies) is change. It is a rapidly evolving, self-correcting, dynamic transactional environment that rewards value and punishes waste. Thus, its strength lies in its capacity for rapid change. That is why "liberals" are afraid of it. Liberals, generally speaking, want state-control to remove the inherent risk in life. This fear of risk and uncertainty is what drives liberals away from the free-market and towards the arms of centrally planned, undemocratic economic systems. It is a fine irony in modern politics.
Wow. Spot on.
     
sek929
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 08:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
Sek: Do you have any evidence, whatsoever, that the Tea Party is a racist movement? You know you are dead wrong, but I'd like to see you try to proffer something to us.

Also, if the Tea Party is so racist, why is Herman Cain a Tea Party favorite?

Cain wins big in South Carolina tea party straw poll – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

If you can't address either of those points, I'm going to have to conclude that you're using the race card to justify your own false opinions. Isn't that kinda racist?
Just google Tea Party racism and look at all the banners yourself, I don't have the time to play this game with you.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Zip, Boom, Bam
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 08:49 PM
 
I heard the n word about 30 times in that video someone posted. The 99 centers must be racists.

Yelling racism at everything is so weak. It's just rule 1 page 1 of the left's handbook for how to try and shut down anything/anyone you disagree with.
     
sek929
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 08:51 PM
 
What page of the handbook is when Conservatives like you call the person calling something racist, racist? Page 2 I suppose?
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Zip, Boom, Bam
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 08:53 PM
 
Your capacity for reading comprehension is severely lacking.
     
sek929
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 08:54 PM
 
...aaaaaaand we're through here.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Zip, Boom, Bam
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 08:55 PM
 
Good. You've embarrassed yourself enough. Now go back and actually respond to ebuddy. He called you out. You tried to throw up a smoke screen. It didn't work.
     
Kerrigan
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 08:56 PM
 
Sek, why is the Tea Party strongly backing Herman Cain if they're all, or mostly, racists?
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 09:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
Sek, why is the Tea Party strongly backing Herman Cain if they're all, or mostly, racists?

There is a racial component to all politics that works in favor and against Obama and Cain, but I don't think that there is a dominance to the racial variable in the way that sek seems to assign. However, at this point I'd say that the Tea Party/Republicans would probably run out whomever they think can beat Obama, overlooking imperfections in their candidate. I think it's safe to say that to some percentage (and I'm not willing to assign a number), Cain's race is an imperfection. To others, being white or female might be viewed as an imperfection too.

These are all intangible variables though, which IMHO are not really worth debating.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 11:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
So you or your business personally have enough income to own a senator or governor to get what you want regardless of what the people want? I don't think your in that 1% of Corporations or individuals that owns government.
There is no "1%" of people or corporations who can "own" government. Like I said, it's ~.001%. The vast majority of the top 1%, in terms of wealth, have >$10M in assets, like to relax and enjoy life, and generally don't give three shits about influencing politicians (I don't). What you have to understand is that there are some 3,000-4,000 people in this country who are the PTB (powers that be). They play with power, influence government, milk the markets, etc.. Targeting the wealthiest of citizens without knowing them, or taking the time to understand what's actually going on, is idiocy. What? You going to lynch a retired cardiologist just because he invested well, drives a Bentley, and owns a nice house in the Keys?

I'm part of the 99.999%. I'm retired, enjoy time with my family, and just happen to have well into 8 figures in terms of assets. I don't own government and have no interest in doing so. Oh, and if you, or anyone, comes to my home to lynch me, you'll die. Good, I'm glad we have all that out of the way.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 11:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
There is no "1%" of people or corporations who can "own" government. Like I said, it's ~.001%. The vast majority of the top 1%, in terms of wealth, have >$10M in assets, like to relax and enjoy life, and generally don't give three cheat about influencing politicians (I don't). What you have to understand is that there are some 3,000-4,000 people in this country who are the PTB (powers that be). They play with power, influence government, milk the markets, etc.. Targeting the wealthiest of citizens without knowing them, or taking the time to understand what's actually going on, is idiocy. What? You going to lynch a retired cardiologist just because he invested well, drives a Bentley, and owns a nice house in the Keys?

I'm part of the 99.999%. I'm retired, enjoy time with my family, and just happen to have well into 8 figures in terms of assets. I don't own government and have no interest in doing so. Oh, and if you, or anyone, comes to my home to lynch me, you'll die. Good, I'm glad we have all that out of the way.

You may not have interest in controlling the government, and I think you make a good point that it's not like all 1% of this population is out to actively manipulate the government. However, as the greatest benefactors of our capitalist system and greatest supporters to politicians that have maintained the system you have benefited from (and when I say that I don't mean to imply that your particular success was in any way rigged), if you were to seek out that power you'd have a much easier time than any of the 99%. Policy caters to your demographic in a disproportionate way.

Yes, money is needed to do stuff as ebuddy has pointed out. All I'm saying is that a strong push in the opposite direction to a more populist approach would benefit the economy. The power that money buys those in politics that seek it out has gotten out of hand.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2011, 11:49 PM
 
I'll agree to that if they ban all attractive chicks from any government property. Because you know, they have an unfair advantage too.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 01:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I'll agree to that if they ban all attractive chicks from any government property. Because you know, they have an unfair advantage too.

Is that a serious comparison addressed to me?
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 02:39 AM
 
I can tell you're hoping it isn't, but indeed it is. The top 1% of attractive people have an unfair advantage in all aspects of life, we need to put a stop to this now!

I am now calling for all 99 percenters to take a stand against corruption caused by the beautiful people. Join me, I'll be going to occupy Victoria's Secret until the government does something about it, or until we're arrested for peeking into the dressing rooms. You know, so we can make sure they actually fit the 1% profile... and then we'll lynch them, unless they agree to go out with me and have a Gelato.

OVS! OVS! OVS!
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 04:45 AM
 
Yuck. Victoria's Secret makes garbage.
     
Athens
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 04:53 AM
 
What really happened is this: In the 1980's there was a law change that altered the business world. The Courts found that corporate executives only had one duty and that they could be found liable if they did not carry out, to the fullest extent, that one duty. The courts found that executives' sole duty is to maximize shareholder profits. Therefore, it was determined that executives no longer had duties to their workers or to society.

Moreover, executive compensation became tied to maximizing short-term shareholder profits. At the same time, the marginal tax rate disincentive was disappearing. High marginal tax rates were a disincentive to paying out all of the corporate profits in executive salaries because of they made more than a certain amount, they were taxed 90% on every dollar over that amount. When the marginal tax rates were highest, middle class workers got paid better and more benefits because there was more profit pie to spread around. The marginal tax rate dropped from 90% in the 1950's, 49% in the 1980's, 39% in the 1990's, and to a meager 36% in the 2000's eliminating the disincentive.

In the 1980's it became the executive's duty to create as much short-term profit for their shareholders as possible and the more the created the more the executives got paid.
Executives quickly learned that it is far easier to create profit by cutting costs than by innovation and creating new great products -- it is harder to and takes much longer. Instead, CEO's came up with an easy model of creating profit, cutting costs. CEO's realized that they could lay off workers and making their existing employees pick up the slack for the missing workers. So, workers worked harder and harder. American worker productivity is at an all time high.
They also realized that they could cut costs by making their workers shoulder more and more of their own healthcare and retirement costs -- hence the creation of 401ks and health savings accounts. These cost savings created more profit for the shareholders and huge salaries for the executives. In fact, a recent study shows that most corporate profits today are not from great things that companies are doing -- investments, creation, or innovation. Instead, most corporate profits today are created on the backs of the workers.

Seems the answer is to put the marginal tax rate back at 90%
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Athens
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 04:59 AM
 
THE RATIO OF AVERAGE CEO COMPENSATION AND WORKER PAY IN THE US 1965-2005
2005 - 262:1 (Av. CEO-$10,982,000/Av. Worker- $41,861)
2004 - 238:1
2003 - 181:1
2002 - 143:1
2000 - 300:1
1989 - 71:1
1978 - 35:1
1965 - 24:1
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 05:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Yuck. Victoria's Secret makes garbage.
Well, I do prefer a woman in Nancy Meyer, but most people have never heard of them and it's isn't as clever as OVS.

OVS! OVS!

I like this, we can be more sophisticated than the Flea Baggers, and the inspections for the 1% could be very rewarding.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 05:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Well, I do prefer a woman in Nancy Meyer, but most people have never heard of them and it's isn't as clever as OVS.
But it does allow for the chant "ONM NOM NOM!"
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 05:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Seems the answer is to put the marginal tax rate back at 90%
Sure, go right ahead, and once all the wealthy have left, what then? That didn't work so well for the French, all their multi-millionaires and billionaires became Swiss.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 05:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I can tell you're hoping it isn't, but indeed it is. The top 1% of attractive people have an unfair advantage in all aspects of life, we need to put a stop to this now!

I am now calling for all 99 percenters to take a stand against corruption caused by the beautiful people. Join me, I'll be going to occupy Victoria's Secret until the government does something about it, or until we're arrested for peeking into the dressing rooms. You know, so we can make sure they actually fit the 1% profile... and then we'll lynch them, unless they agree to go out with me and have a Gelato.

OVS! OVS! OVS!

I guess I misread stuff, I thought we were having a serious conversation here... Oh well.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 05:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
They also realized that they could cut costs by making their workers shoulder more and more of their own healthcare and retirement costs -- hence the creation of 401ks and health savings accounts.
What?

401(k)s were created because letting your employer be in total control of your retirement is a horrible idea.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 05:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I guess I misread stuff, I thought we were having a serious conversation here... Oh well.
We try doing that sometimes, but then you won't have any part of it. Kind of annoying, isn't it?

Truthfully, I was being somewhat serious about beautiful people getting preferred treatment, many a lawmaker has been "bought" with the favors of an attractive woman or man. A bribe's a bribe.

I guess you can't really keep the beautiful 1% away from lawmakers, that would be prejudicial. Hell, people can't help that they're gorgeous... much like others can't help that making money is easy and comes naturally to them.
( Last edited by Shaddim; Oct 17, 2011 at 05:57 AM. )
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 05:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What?

401(k)s were created because letting your employer be in total control of your retirement is a horrible idea.
Exactly. And MSAs were created to allow for people to have a tax-free way of saving for medical emergencies. You keep the interest from the MSA "premiums", not the insurance company. Where in the hell did you get that load of bunk, Athens?
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 06:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
We try doing that sometimes, but then you won't have any part of it. Kind of annoying, isn't it?

Truthfully, I was being somewhat serious about beautiful people getting preferred treatment, many a lawmaker has been "bought" with the favors of an attractive woman or man. A bribe's a bribe.

I guess you can't really keep the beautiful 1% away from lawmakers, that would be prejudicial. Hell, people can't help that they're gorgeous... much like others can't help that making money is easy and comes naturally to them.

The amount of power afforded just by looking good (with no sex being involved) is not even remotely comparable to the amount of power that is involved with being, say, the CEO of Bank of America, Walmart, Exxon, or any other non-retired wealthy elite of this calibre.

Otherwise, I'd be the most powerful man in America.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 06:35 AM
 
Mark Cuban's take:

MARK CUBAN: "Tax The Hell Out Of Wall Street And Give It To Main Street"

He makes some interesting points.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 06:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The amount of power afforded just by looking good (with no sex being involved) is not even remotely comparable to the amount of power that is involved with being, say, the CEO of Bank of America, Walmart, Exxon, or any other non-retired wealthy elite of this calibre.
Of course sex would be involved. After all, this is government we're talking about here. Lust and greed are two sides of the same coin, and equally powerful.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
ebuddy  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 07:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Speaking of disconnectedness...

ebuddy, in your own words, without your own narrative and commentary, what does OWS stand for?

Hint: "nothing", "socialism", or "to destroy capitalism" is the wrong answer...
It's still "nothing" insofar as their understanding of what it is exactly they're railing against. Again, you cannot tout the merits of socialism while decrying the result of it. If the movement ever becomes something most of them can understand, it will disband. Or it will get cold outside, whichever comes first.
ebuddy
     
ebuddy  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 07:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Sure, go right ahead, and once all the wealthy have left, what then? That didn't work so well for the French, all their multi-millionaires and billionaires became Swiss.
BINGO! You wanna a government to do all this expensive stuff in the name of social justice and you don't like how people act with all this money going in and out. So... it's easy then! Alienate the source of money! Wait a minute... what now?

ebuddy
     
ebuddy  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 07:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
Sek, why is the Tea Party strongly backing Herman Cain if they're all, or mostly, racists?
He's a token black position. C'mon Kerrigan, that's easy! I only hope Cain is prepared for the full-on racist slander headed his way from the left.

Meanwhile: Black Activist Points Out Occupy Philly’s Racial Disconnect
“Saturday, two sisters were called Ni__ers by two of the volunteers at Occupy Philadelphia at the cell-phone charging stations. They were also told to go back to Africa, and that each white man should own a slave. When the sista’s called security, security asked them to leave the premises because they thought they were apart of the UHURU movement.

So does this cinch it then? The Occupy movement is racist? Hmm. Maybe not. Maybe racism is the most unfortunate byproduct of the "99%".
ebuddy
     
ebuddy  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 07:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The amount of power afforded just by looking good (with no sex being involved) is not even remotely comparable to the amount of power that is involved with being, say, the CEO of Bank of America, Walmart, Exxon, or any other non-retired wealthy elite of this calibre.

Otherwise, I'd be the most powerful man in America.
What powers do any of the above have that weren't granted them by government? You missed a biggie by the way; GE.
ebuddy
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 07:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
Sek, why is the Tea Party strongly backing Herman Cain if they're all, or mostly, racists?
Bradley effect.

I hope Herman Cain wins the Republican primary. That would be entertaining.

But I doubt he would win the Republican primary.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 07:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
He's a token black position. C'mon Kerrigan, that's easy! I only hope Cain is prepared for the full-on racist slander headed his way from the left.

Meanwhile: Black Activist Points Out Occupy Philly’s Racial Disconnect
“Saturday, two sisters were called Ni__ers by two of the volunteers at Occupy Philadelphia at the cell-phone charging stations. They were also told to go back to Africa, and that each white man should own a slave. When the sista’s called security, security asked them to leave the premises because they thought they were apart of the UHURU movement.

So does this cinch it then? The Occupy movement is racist? Hmm. Maybe not. Maybe racism is the most unfortunate byproduct of the "99%".

That's what happens when some Tea Party members join the Occupy Wall Street protest.

They forget that they are not at the Tea Party protest.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Zip, Boom, Bam
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 01:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
So does this cinch it then? The Occupy movement is racist? Hmm. Maybe not. Maybe racism is the most unfortunate byproduct of the "99%".
When you cast a net as wide as pretending you represent 99%, you're surely not going to have any undesirables included!

Wait, you mean of 99% of a population, you'd actually have racists? Murderers? Child molesters? Polluters? Tax dodgers? Crooks/thieves/gang-bangers/drug addicts/cigar-chomping, baby-eating fatcats?

Nope, it's just the 1%. Quick! Let's storm their compounds and get those racist/tax-cheating/murdering/child-molesting/all-that's-wrong-with-everything 1%ers and lynch them!

But wait a second. Once the old 1% of all that's wrong with everything are dead, then the old 99% becomes the 100%, so there's a new 99% and a new 1%.

Are those new 1%ers that used to be part of the 99% evil too? Do we lynch them?

And if so, then we're back to the same problem again. This viscous cycle could go on until the 99% is only two people vs.one.

Oh the dilemmas of hyperbolic inflated group percentages.
     
Athens
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 02:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Sure, go right ahead, and once all the wealthy have left, what then? That didn't work so well for the French, all their multi-millionaires and billionaires became Swiss.
Let them leave, the net effect will be the same, more distributed profits to workers and more workers since the alternative is just to give it all to the government.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Athens
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 02:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
He's a token black position. C'mon Kerrigan, that's easy! I only hope Cain is prepared for the full-on racist slander headed his way from the left.

Meanwhile: Black Activist Points Out Occupy Philly’s Racial Disconnect
“Saturday, two sisters were called Ni__ers by two of the volunteers at Occupy Philadelphia at the cell-phone charging stations. They were also told to go back to Africa, and that each white man should own a slave. When the sista’s called security, security asked them to leave the premises because they thought they were apart of the UHURU movement.

So does this cinch it then? The Occupy movement is racist? Hmm. Maybe not. Maybe racism is the most unfortunate byproduct of the "99%".
Or maybe you had a couple racist people there. By your logic every American is racist because this happened at a American occupy location.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 03:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Of course sex would be involved. After all, this is government we're talking about here. Lust and greed are two sides of the same coin, and equally powerful.
Sure, sex is another way to extract power, but people who are hoping to use sex as a tool are not going to bother with those with no money/power.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 03:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
What powers do any of the above have that weren't granted them by government? You missed a biggie by the way; GE.

Who says that the government would be excluded from the wealthy elite category?
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 03:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
BINGO! You wanna a government to do all this expensive stuff in the name of social justice and you don't like how people act with all this money going in and out. So... it's easy then! Alienate the source of money! Wait a minute... what now?


So, except the status quo for the rest of eternity?

Perhaps you are right that these sorts of things are unfixable facets of capitalism (and hopefully these facets would not be characteristics that the successor to capitalism possesses), but while we are capitalist based it seems like a good idea to fix what we can rather than just shrugging our shoulders.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 03:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
It's still "nothing" insofar as their understanding of what it is exactly they're railing against. Again, you cannot tout the merits of socialism while decrying the result of it. If the movement ever becomes something most of them can understand, it will disband. Or it will get cold outside, whichever comes first.

What are the founders of this movement saying their message is?

Hint: not touting the merits of socialism
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 04:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Sure, sex is another way to extract power, but people who are hoping to use sex as a tool are not going to bother with those with no money/power.
They'd be using sex to get what they want from the government, plenty of money and power there.

So, what we end up with is; no "wealthy 1%", no "beautiful 1%", no "intellectual 1%", just lots of mediocrity for everyone to enjoy and aspire to... I suppose anyone who is exceptional will be ostracized or "lynched". Didn't a guy named Stalin do something like that? Oh, and the Roman Catholic Church did the same with the Templars. Then there was the Khmer Rouge, lots of lynching going on there.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
lpkmckenna
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 04:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
I only hope Cain is prepared for the full-on racist slander headed his way from the left.
When this happens, please let me know. I don't wanna miss it.

But sure, the US really needs a president who says "if you don't have a job, it's because you're lazy, and by the way, here's a regressive 9% sales tax, I'm sure the poor can handle it."

Cain is a fncking joke.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 04:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
They'd be using sex to get what they want from the government, plenty of money and power there.

So, what we end up with is; no "wealthy 1%", no "beautiful 1%", no "intellectual 1%", just lots of mediocrity for everyone to enjoy and aspire to... I suppose anyone who is exceptional will be ostracized or "lynched". Didn't a guy named Stalin do something like that? Oh, and the Roman Catholic Church did the same with the Templars. Then there was the Khmer Rouge, lots of lynching going on there.

I honestly don't even know what your point is.

Sex and intelligence can buy you power/money, money *is* power.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 05:34 PM
 
ebuddy: I gave you the opportunity to concede your bias, but having passed that up I think I'll just call it as I see it...

You're biased, and a little hypocritical.

Bias:

- cherry picking the words and messages of individual protesters and using this as a basis for your arguments about how the group has no message and wants things that the founders haven't said they wanted, rather than listening to the actual founders

- not acknowledging that every protest in the history of the universe has had an element of off-message protesters, or protesters just saying things that are hyperbolic or dumb

Hypocriticalness:

- You (I believe) were livid about the bank bailouts, you are livid about abuse of power by government. These very protests are about that abuse of power. That their physical location is Wall St. suggests that perhaps they put this on Wall St. more than the government, but that doesn't mean that they don't put this on the government at all. THEY DO. Why are you seemingly against these protests when you don't seem to disagree that there is fraud and abuse by those in power or with power? Is it because OWS seems leftist?

- Your mockery of OWS protesters while not doing the same for tea party protesters


Furthermore, and this applies to several other people here, I don't understand why it seems that many of you just don't get it. The message from the founders is about

FRAUD AND ABUSE

I repeat:

FRAUD AND ABUSE

FRAUD AND ABUSE <-- look here

FRAUD AND ABUSE <------ AGAIN, FOCUS HERE!!


It is not about vying for socialism, about bitching about wealth, etc. It is ironic that you like to mock the protesters for being off message when your very criticisms are off message. Focus on the message.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 05:40 PM
 
Again, you guys don't actually disagree with the protest founders, you just think you do because they seem leftist to you and attribute different blame to different people.

It's all the same crap though. Fraud and abuse does not exclude government fraud and abuse. The 1% they bitch about is a proxy which includes those in government with power. All of this is about abuse of power, no matter where it occurs.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 08:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I honestly don't even know what your point is.

Sex and intelligence can buy you power/money, money *is* power.
No, it is not. Think about it for a bit.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
No, it is not. Think about it for a bit.

Money is not power? Why don't you explain how that is so?
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Zip, Boom, Bam
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 10:14 PM
 
So the 99-centers are vying for socialism. Got it.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2011, 10:38 PM
 
See, what was instituted long ago was a tax cut that would stop the rich from hoarding money, give them an incentive to take equity out of their securities and spend their cash. The thing is, if you raise taxes on cap gains by some ridiculous 70%, they won't cash out their equity, they'll just sit on those securities and borrow small amounts against them to "get by". What you'll end up with then, is less tax revenues because the wealthiest of Americans will become much more Scrooge-like, much more aggressive in acquiring liquid assets without selling those securities, and one way of doing that is to put a halt on future hiring and scaling back on benefits. Well, that is, that's what the few who remain will do, the rest will haul ass for more financially comfortable climates, which would be a disaster because more of the tax burden would shift to the middle and upper-middle classes.

What's the fix?

- A modest tax increase on cap gains, ~5%
- Introduction of a 10-20% VAT on certain "luxury" items
- Legalization of marijuana with a 50% federal sales tax
- Scaling back the defense budget by 40% by closing half of foreign military bases, and taking the troops that would be stationed overseas and shoring up our borders and using them for domestic disaster relief. We'd still have the same number of troops, they'd simply be used for matters closer to home (like finally rebuilding N.O.).
- A tax cut for the lower-middle and middle class of 25%, to stimulate spending and investment

Within just 5 years we'd be able to start paying on our national debt principal, without abusing the wealthiest of Americans and stimulating growth in the broader markets. This is all possible (except maybe the legalization of pot, due to idiots who want to play nurse-maid to other adults). Trust me, I thought about this for 10 minutes, while stoned, it's bound to work.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:09 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,