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My Cook-era Apple wish list (Page 2)
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ort888
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Oct 28, 2011, 03:50 PM
 
No, but it's going to be frustrating when we buy brand new iMacs and get rid of the old one's with their expensive built in monitors.

Being forced to replace perfectly good 27" monitors every 3 years or so is ridiculous. It's wasteful. Both financially and environmentally.

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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 28, 2011, 03:59 PM
 
Resell value should hold, though.
     
boy8cookie
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Oct 28, 2011, 04:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Presumably, iMacs also offer no performance disadvantage to what you're actually doing?
Not meaning to speak for Ort here, but my only gripe with iMacs is the 16GB* RAM ceiling.

*It's possible to put more, but unsupported by Apple (4x8GB).
     
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Oct 28, 2011, 04:31 PM
 
And the iMacs are cheaper than the Mac Pros, even with the monitors, thats why you bought them (Plus they are currently faster).

I still haven't worked out how thunderbolt will even work on a Mac Pro. Will it run through the video card? Or access the GPU on the card internally via PCIe?
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ort888
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Oct 28, 2011, 04:36 PM
 
I have a feeling that Apple is about to do a major re-haul of it's Mac Pro line.

how long have they had the exact same case design? 8 years?

EDIT: 9.5 Years. (summer 2003)

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Waragainstsleep
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Oct 28, 2011, 04:40 PM
 
Maybe there will now be an iMac Pro with a matte display (SD would be thrilled), an extra 3.5" Bay 8, RAM slots and the ability to use ECC RAM. $3000?
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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 28, 2011, 04:44 PM
 
iMac pro with matte display?

Nah.
     
Big Mac
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Oct 28, 2011, 04:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I have a feeling that Apple is about to do a major re-haul of it's Mac Pro line.

how long have they had the exact same case design? 8 years?

EDIT: 9.5 Years. (summer 2003)
The Mac Pro case isn't exactly the same as the G5 case. As a matter of visuals and expansion, the Mac Pro got a second optical drive bay. The power supply moved from the bottom of the case to the top, and I'm sure other things changed as well.

I'm not sure the Mac Pro is getting an overhaul. Apple doesn't seem to care much about the pro market anymore.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Oct 28, 2011 at 05:31 PM. )

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olePigeon
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Oct 28, 2011, 04:57 PM
 
Mac Pro doesn't have the nifty transparent plastic so you can see the inside of the computer.
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Athens
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Oct 28, 2011, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
These two posts highlight why "low-cost tower" is never again going to happen at Apple:

vs.


Sounds similar, but at heart, those are two COMPLETELY different machines.

The fundamental problem is that everybody clamoring for a minitower fails to realize that there's about sixteen different ideas of what a "minitower" should be, and that in order to shut all of them up, Apple would have to diversify to a degree that would be reminiscent of the mid-90s — all just to offer a hodgepodge line of machines in a low-margin segment of the industry that's been on the decline for years.

The other thing is that "xMac" USED to mean primarily "headless iMac", and Apple already BUILDS a fully expandable (well, to 16 GB RAM) machine that's perfectly adequate for almost everybody but the few geeks who'd build a Hackintosh ANYWAY, regardless of what Apple could offer:

The segment that would benefit from a "up-gradable" headless mac is the gaming community. The Mac Pro's are just way to out of reach. Put what is in the guts of a iMac into a mid tower with some PCIx slots which can be populated with proper gaming cards. Mac Mini is a nice headless Mac but not a gaming machine. Like the iMac they only need "1" model of mid tower to make most of the community that wants any form of mid tower happy.

You have a Large iMac and a Small iMac
You have a Large Macbook Pro and a Small Macbook pro and a Super Small Macbook Air
You have a Large Mac Tower and a Super Small Mac Mini. Whats missing is that mid tower between the Mac Pro and Mac Mini with a price that is in between them both as well. Call it Mac

Wish List Product Line
11" Macbook Air $999.00
13" Macbook Air $1299.00

13" Macbook Pro $1199.00
15" Macbook Pro $1799.00
17" Macbook Pro $2499.00

Mac Mini $599.00
Mac (Missing Piece) $1299.00
Mac Pro $2499.00

iPhone 3GS
iPhone 4
iPhone 4S

iPad 7" (Missing Piece)
iPad 9.7"
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boy8cookie
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Oct 28, 2011, 05:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Wish List Product Line
11" Macbook Air $999.00
13" Macbook Air $1299.00

13" Macbook Pro $1199.00
15" Macbook Pro $1799.00
17" Macbook Pro $2499.00

Mac Mini $599.00
Mac (Missing Piece) $1299.00 <iMac goes here
Mac Pro $2499.00

iPhone 3GS
iPhone 4
iPhone 4S

iPad 7" (Missing Piece) <Why..?
iPad 9.7"
Fixed.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 28, 2011, 05:51 PM
 
The gaming community? That's the market?

Are you serious?

Why the **** should Apple care?
     
olePigeon
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Oct 28, 2011, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
The Mac Pro's Pros are just way to out of reach. Put what is in the guts of a iMac into a mid tower with some PCIx slots which can be populated with proper gaming cards.
I assume you mean PCIe, not PCIx.
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Athens
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Oct 28, 2011, 05:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
I assume you mean PCIe, not PCIx.
Yes PCIe...
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Oct 28, 2011, 06:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
Fixed.
     
Athens
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Oct 28, 2011, 06:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
Fixed.
No iMac's belong to the all in one category. Let me correct your correction.


Wish List Product Line
11" Macbook Air $999.00
13" Macbook Air $1299.00

13" Macbook Pro $1199.00
15" Macbook Pro $1799.00
17" Macbook Pro $2499.00

iMac 21" $1199.000
iMac 27" $1699.00

Mac Mini $599.00
Mac (Missing Piece) $1299.00
Mac Pro $2499.00

iPad 7" (Missing Piece)
iPad 9.7"

iPhone 3GS
iPhone 4
iPhone 4S

The worst part is that because a few old farts see no need for a Mid Tower they think no one needs or wants a mid tower. Some of us want 8TB of hard drive space, 16Gb of ram and a performance gaming card in one package that has no built in monitor at a price less then the current tower which is also to large. I don't want a bunch of devices and cables and power cords to achieve the same thing with a mobile machine or a all in one machine.
( Last edited by Athens; Oct 28, 2011 at 06:19 PM. )
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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 28, 2011, 06:06 PM
 
Good job listing Apple's product portfolio. You did forget the iPods though; might wanna add those for completeness' sake (they're no more relevant to the subject than most of the other things on that list, but no less, either)

Actually, the "Mac (Missing Piece)" is both machines a Mac mini + Thunderbolt PCIe expansion chassis, ranging from what $1500 to $2500, depending upon chassis and configuration, and the iMac, as mentioned and described by several pros above.

There is no "missing piece". There are, in fact, two options, as the Mac mini now scales fairly well due to its Thunderbolt expandability.

And the iPad 7"...well... good luck with that.
     
Athens
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Oct 28, 2011, 06:25 PM
 
Right...

Mac Mini
+ Thunderbolt PCIe Expansion
+ Thunderbolt Raid Box
+ USB Blu-ray Burner

5 Power Plugs
3 Thunderbolt cables
1 USB Cable
A lot of desk space in use
3 noisy devices all of which need to be turned off individually
and a SHIT load more money, 5x more + then what you can get with a proper mid tower. Your solution is so elegant was obviously designed for the queen. You use what works for you, I will request what works for me and that is a mid tower.
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Waragainstsleep
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Oct 28, 2011, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
iMac pro with matte display?

Nah.
Sorry, I forgot to use my sarcasm tags.

Mac Pro cases are the same as G5s. Minor changes don't count as redesigns. Most Macs have slight variations from model to model. You'd be surprised how many case parts were not interchangeable on MacBooks/Pros, PowerBooks and iBooks even when they looked identical.

How does Summer 2003 - Present = 9.5 years?

If an external PCIe box allows you to loop video back to an iMacs internal display, it becomes a much better potential gaming rig. I see no reason you couldn't use the spare TB port on a 27" and put it in target display mode if needs be.

Incidentally, thats something else you can do when your iMac gets outdated for production now: Keep it on as a display.
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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 28, 2011, 06:34 PM
 
Athens:

The difference between what you ask and what exists is precisely that: Reality.

Good luck!
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 28, 2011, 06:38 PM
 
Also the clear plastic insert in the G5 was to preserve its thermal zoning when you took the side off. Mac Pro doesn't need any of that since it runs much cooler.
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Athens
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Oct 28, 2011, 06:40 PM
 
The road block died. We will see more deviation over the next few years of what used to be Apple Standards. Steve might have left many great ideas to allow for new products that do great things. But do you seriously think we wont see redesigns and additions to the family to cater to more people. Steve hated the idea of a mid tower. Steve is gone. Many of the things he said no no no to will be revived.
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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 28, 2011, 06:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
The road block died. We will see more deviation over the next few years of what used to be Apple Standards. Steve might have left many great ideas to allow for new products that do great things. But do you seriously think we wont see redesigns and additions to the family to cater to more people. Steve hated the idea of a mid tower. Steve is gone. Many of the things he said no no no to will be revived.
Like I say, good luck with that.

I'm sure Apple is in a real hurry to turn around any and all market decisions Steve forced upon them in the past fourteen years to finally shake off their "beleaguered" status, so I'm positive you won't have to wait long for them to go after the dying desktop segment with an entirely new breed of machines that will sit on shelves…waiting…for you…and six other people to not buy them and build Hackintoshes instead.
     
Athens
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Oct 28, 2011, 07:19 PM
 
Remember the Mac Clones. IT was not just because they where cheaper that it almost killed Apple. It was the upgradability of them. I would be real money more mid towers would sell then Mac Mini's.
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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 28, 2011, 07:37 PM
 
Remember 1995? When desktops were the market? Yeah, I remember.

What does that have to do with 2011 ff.?
     
Athens
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Oct 28, 2011, 07:52 PM
 
Of a group of 45 people I know off the top of my head

35 Desktop
5 Desktop and Laptop
5 Laptop only

Go look at a Best Buy and tell me how many Laptops and how many Desktop's you see.
Go look at Apple, how many iMacs and Mac Mini's sell and then tell me with a straight face desktop's are dead.
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Oct 28, 2011, 07:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Like I say, good luck with that.

I'm sure Apple is in a real hurry to turn around any and all market decisions Steve forced upon them in the past fourteen years to finally shake off their "beleaguered" status, so I'm positive you won't have to wait long for them to go after the dying desktop segment with an entirely new breed of machines that will sit on shelves…waiting…for you…and six other people to not buy not to buy them and build Hackintoshes instead.
You split the infinitive. Corrected. You're welcome.

Anyways, it's backwards-thinking to suppose that there is growth to be seen in the mid-range tower market.

Athens, the only people I know who have desktops but no laptops are senior citizens...

We ought to get the discussion back to the future of Apple, rather than what they should have released 15 years ago to appeal to gamers.
     
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Oct 28, 2011, 08:07 PM
 
If Apple hasn't learned how to say no the way Steve did, it will go the sae way it did when they kicked him out years ago. They will end up like every other crappy manufacturer. Apple is what it is because Steve said no to the pointless crap.
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Oct 28, 2011, 08:10 PM
 
Exactly. Remember all the stuff they used to make? Re-branded cameras, printers, etc. A product lineup to boggle the mind. Yes, it was all good quality, but they lost all focus and went to the edge of bankruptcy.
     
boy8cookie
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Oct 28, 2011, 08:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
The worst part is that because a few old farts see no need for a Mid Tower they think no one needs or wants a mid tower. Some of us want 8TB of hard drive space, 16Gb of ram and a performance gaming card in one package that has no built in monitor at a price less then the current tower which is also to large. I don't want a bunch of devices and cables and power cords to achieve the same thing with a mobile machine or a all in one machine.
Who are you referring to with your "old farts" comment?
--

8TB of HD space, 16GB of RAM, performance gaming* card - all of these are possible with the current line up of Macs.

*Depending on what you consider a performance gaming card.

I consider myself a gamer, and an iMac is plenty powerful to play anything out right now. I know, I have one.
     
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Oct 28, 2011, 08:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
No iMac's iMacs belong to the all in one category. Let me correct your correction.
Fixed.
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Oct 28, 2011, 08:27 PM
 
Apple isn't going to makena cheap tower to satisfy a few geeks on a forum. The fact is, most pros are buying Mac Pros and aren't complaining because the machines pay for themselves in a few months.

Not only that, nobody is asking for anything that would result in a real cost decrease from a Mac Pro. One less slot and a couple of drive bays is nothing, and Apple would be stupid to lower their margins when people keep buying.
     
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Oct 28, 2011, 09:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
Apple isn't going to makena cheap tower to satisfy a few geeks on a forum. The fact is, most pros are buying Mac Pros and aren't complaining because the machines pay for themselves in a few months.

Not only that, nobody is asking for anything that would result in a real cost decrease from a Mac Pro. One less slot and a couple of drive bays is nothing, and Apple would be stupid to lower their margins when people keep buying.
I agree with your point, but I want to be clear about my own point. There's little (no?) reason to buy a Mac Pro over an iMac at the moment, thunderbolt = pcie. Pay more for equal or lesser performance just doesn't fly.
     
Athens
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Oct 28, 2011, 10:43 PM
 
ya see how that video card holds up in 730 days from now against new games. You might like replacing your entire iMac every 2 years. I prefer replacing the Video Card every 2 years.

Now lets look at music people who might want to put a Pro Tools card in something a bit cheaper then a 2699 massive tower. Or some one what wants to make a security camera computer but prefer Macs but needs 2699.00 tower to entertain the idea of putting in input cards.

I stopped recommending laptop's to people a few years ago and direct almost every one to get a iMac or a Desktop PC because of the cost and performance advantage. Those that actually really needed a laptop for travel or going from home to school and home to work are the exceptions. Its retarded to buy a laptop to use as a desktop 99.9% of the time JUST incase that one time you decide you want to take it some place.

Desktop market is far from dead. The replacement time between desktop's is a lot longer in between then laptops. People easily hold on to desktops for 5 years. Basing your opinion on the death of the desktop in the Windows world is pointless because laptop numbers are down in the PC world too. By this logic Laptops are going to die out. Face the fact, PC sales in general which includes both Laptops and Desktops are slowing because look what is being offered. A lot of people are afraid of change and Windows Vista and Windows 7 is scary for them. Many are holding on to Windows XP. A large portion of PC number sales are to business and many are avoiding spending because of economic issues and because of the compatibility issues with Windows 7 and most importantly they don't need to upgrade as the PCs from 5 years ago are more then powerful enough to run current business software.

The tablet market in the PC world is tiny. Even with great effort its tiny. Comparing the PC world including that of Desktops with Apple products is pointless. If PC world trends affected Apple, the iPad would be a big mistake.

Old Farts in reference to those that are closed minded, set in one way and can't see past there own narrow views to realize there is a much larger and more dynamic world out there.
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Oct 28, 2011, 11:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
ya see how that video card holds up in 730 days from now against new games. You might like replacing your entire iMac every 2 years. I prefer replacing the Video Card every 2 years.

Now lets look at music people who might want to put a Pro Tools card in something a bit cheaper then a 2699 massive tower. Or some one what wants to make a security camera computer but prefer Macs but needs 2699.00 tower to entertain the idea of putting in input cards.
If you "prefer" replacing your video card every two years, buy a PC. This mac will last me well past 2 years for gaming purposes.

Thunderbolt

I made it big so maybe you'll take notice. Thunderbolt allows a Mac Mini to do any of the things you listed.

Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Old Farts in reference to those that are closed minded, set in one way and can't see past there own narrow views to realize there is a much larger and more dynamic world out there.
I think you're the old fart, by that definition. You see towers as the only solution, when really, any thunderbolt equipped mac can provide everything anyone could need.
     
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Oct 29, 2011, 12:06 AM
 
You want 3 or more devices on your desk by all means use a Mac mini. You want two power bars and more things to plug in by all means. You want to spend a thousand bucks on a external pcie box by all means. I rather have it all in one box thank you very much. And I don't want a hackintosh and all the problems that come with it. And I don't want a PC my choice and preference is Apple and OS X. And you symbolize everything wrong with Apple fan boys. "why would you want a mis tower when Steve our god our idol says its against Devine way. You should want it my way because my way is best". Ya thank you but no thank you. If I wanted to subject
Myself to that kind of arrogance i would join a unix group and fallow stallmanism.

Some of us want mid towers post Steve jobs. That's what this thread is about. I dot know why I have to justify suggestions when all of us are "suggesting" ideas.
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Oct 29, 2011, 04:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Of a group of 45 people I know off the top of my head

35 Desktop
5 Desktop and Laptop
5 Laptop only

Go look at a Best Buy and tell me how many Laptops and how many Desktop's you see.
Go look at Apple, how many iMacs and Mac Mini's sell and then tell me with a straight face desktop's are dead.
Not dead; dying.

The numbers have been very clear on this for years. I don't have a Best Buy within 10,000 miles.

And I'm going to make the guess that of those 35 people, 25 are actually using desktops for work, rather than privately.
     
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Oct 29, 2011, 05:53 AM
 
If you define web surfing, watching movies, playing music, saving digital photos and playing games work then sure....
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Oct 29, 2011, 07:34 AM
 
Except Athens, you just admitted that you've been telling everyone you know to buy desktops so those anomalous figures are all your fault!



Look the truth is that most of us here would like an expandable Mac tower or could find uses for them at any rate its just that some of us have accepted it isn't going to happen and some are clinging to the hope that it will in the face of overwhelming evidence against it.

Apple doesn't like expandable. Capitalism doesn't like expandable. Its much more profitable to make it difficult for people to fix and upgrade things themselves if you can charge them for those services and parts. As long as they can get away with this, they will.
You have a point that Apple did go that way when Jobs left last time but I guarantee you they have learned better by now. Like him or not Steve has proved that his way of thinking is the best way for the shareholders in the most spectacular way he could have, why would a team that helped him do that suddenly throw it all out the window in order to emulate the Apple of the early 90s that looked more and more like every other PC maker out there and almost ended up out of business altogether?

I don't think Protools uses as many cards as it used to, if any at all but as has been mentioned, video and audio cards can be added via thunderbolt. Those external PCIe chassis will come down in price, there isn't anything in them to justify $1000.
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Oct 29, 2011, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Oh, so you've changed the argument from hardware needs to one that highlights how cheap RAM has become?

A year ago, 16 GB cost something like $1000. And it wasn't an issue in situations where it was NECESSARY. Actual needs have changed rather little since then.

Also, a DDR3 8 GB stick currently costs around 110€ (cheapest SO-DIMM I could find). But that's not really relevant to the discussion.
No, not in any way. I said I wanted more than 16GB RAM.

You said "That market is served by the Mac Pro, and if you really *need* more than 16 GB, it is very, VERY likely that the extra cost is not going to be an issue"

I'm pointing out the fallacy in your argument due to the relative price of RAM vs the starting price of a Mac Pro. The entry cost of the Mac Pro is a huge issue compared to the cost of RAM.

Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
EDIT: It's been 458 days since the Mac Pros have seen any update at all. Most other lines have been updated twice in that time frame.
This is mostly on Intel with the Xeon E5 delays.

At work we gave up waiting and bought Xeon E7 machines; whee, 64 RAM slots instead of 18.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 29, 2011, 02:45 PM
 
You can put 32GB in an iMac now though.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
boy8cookie
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Oct 29, 2011, 03:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
You want 3 or more devices on your desk by all means use a Mac mini. You want two power bars and more things to plug in by all means. You want to spend a thousand bucks on a external pcie box by all means. I rather have it all in one box thank you very much. And I don't want a hackintosh and all the problems that come with it. And I don't want a PC my choice and preference is Apple and OS X. And you symbolize everything wrong with Apple fan boys. "why would you want a mis tower when Steve our god our idol says its against Devine way. You should want it my way because my way is best". Ya thank you but no thank you. If I wanted to subject
Myself to that kind of arrogance i would join a unix group and fallow stallmanism.

Some of us want mid towers post Steve jobs. That's what this thread is about. I dot know why I have to justify suggestions when all of us are "suggesting" ideas.
Take a breath, use some line breaks. I'm hardly a fan boy, more of a realist. What I want to happen, and what is going to happen aren't always the same thing. I can accept that, can you?
     
Athens
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Oct 29, 2011, 05:35 PM
 
The thread is called a wish list, can you accept that?
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Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Salty
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Oct 30, 2011, 01:39 AM
 
Sorry Athens the desktop market died while you were in the can. I'm working as a tech support rep for a Canadian ISP. I would say 4 out of 5 callers have laptops not desktops. When people can't get online we're always power cycling wireless routers. My default setting now is to assume someone has a laptop. If their router isn't working I ask them to hook it up directly to the computer and none of them ever complain because their computers are all mobile.

You may get hard at the idea of five expansion slots, but for what most people do, two USB ports are just as useful. I can have as much storage as I want with a USB or Firewire hub, I have more RAM than I need in my MacBook Pro (and do some rather Pro level stuff) and most of the stuff that I want to expand my options with involves USB, Firewire or now Thunderbolt.

You seem very fixed on what you want, but seem entirely capable of realizing that you are not the broader market, and you're not smart enough to change with the times. The Mac gaming market is pretty well dead, everyone knows this but you it seems. Also give it a little time and you'll see Tunderbolt graphics cards. The Magma is just one example.

You seem to be one of those people who avoids signing a contract for a cell phone because you're worried that a better deal will come up, or you may want to move to another country even though you're scared of traveling. You want Apple to compromise the values that made them an awesome company because you have a psychological inability to simply settle on a solution and be content with it.

Apple shouldn't change their product matrix to indulge your mental health issues ... and I'm glad they won't.
     
Salty
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Oct 30, 2011, 01:48 AM
 
As far as what I'd like to see:

15 inch Air (I imagine this'll come, there's no reason for it not to aside from perhaps that at 15 inches you end up with structural issues with something that large and thin)

Retina iPad (already assume this is coming and I'm waiting to make that my first one)

Change of iPod touch to iPod ... it just makes sense.

I imagine Apple's already offered to buy Pixelmator, so they'll just continue to support those guys as they work independently.

Increased iCloud development. For a long time I thought that your iPhone was going to be the centre of your digital existence, now I'm realizing it'll be your Apple ID. I just wish that they'd allow the ability to change mine from @gmail.com to @me.com nothing like logging into iCloud with an @gmail.com email ... that needs to be cleaned up.

Siri based iSet (TV set hopefully it won't be called Apple TV) with FaceTime. My only concern is how they'll manage to allow your TV set to have the sort of quick growth the iPhone had while not requiring you to upgrade it all the time. My guess is they'll put in a hefty GPU from the get go and a processor that'll give em room to grow. (Frankly the Xbox and PS3 still look pretty good visually and they're ancient)

Apple TV compatibility with AVI (never gonna happen sadly)

Pen for drawing on iPad

I'd also like to see Documents in the Cloud work significantly better.

I'd love to see an Apple made Thunderbolt hub/laptop stand.
     
hayesk
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Oct 30, 2011, 11:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
I agree with your point, but I want to be clear about my own point. There's little (no?) reason to buy a Mac Pro over an iMac at the moment, thunderbolt = pcie. Pay more for equal or lesser performance just doesn't fly.
Sure, but that's got nothing to do with why Apple should or shouldn't make a minitower. That is basically saying Apple has to upgrade their Mac Pros. I agree with that, but I think they're waiting on chips from Intel.
     
Athens
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Oct 30, 2011, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Sorry Athens the desktop market died while you were in the can. I'm working as a tech support rep for a Canadian ISP. I would say 4 out of 5 callers have laptops not desktops. When people can't get online we're always power cycling wireless routers. My default setting now is to assume someone has a laptop. If their router isn't working I ask them to hook it up directly to the computer and none of them ever complain because their computers are all mobile.

You may get hard at the idea of five expansion slots, but for what most people do, two USB ports are just as useful. I can have as much storage as I want with a USB or Firewire hub, I have more RAM than I need in my MacBook Pro (and do some rather Pro level stuff) and most of the stuff that I want to expand my options with involves USB, Firewire or now Thunderbolt.

You seem very fixed on what you want, but seem entirely capable of realizing that you are not the broader market, and you're not smart enough to change with the times. The Mac gaming market is pretty well dead, everyone knows this but you it seems. Also give it a little time and you'll see Tunderbolt graphics cards. The Magma is just one example.

You seem to be one of those people who avoids signing a contract for a cell phone because you're worried that a better deal will come up, or you may want to move to another country even though you're scared of traveling. You want Apple to compromise the values that made them an awesome company because you have a psychological inability to simply settle on a solution and be content with it.

Apple shouldn't change their product matrix to indulge your mental health issues ... and I'm glad they won't.
Well it helps that Telus gives away garbage laptops to customers to hook them into a 3 year contract with internet. But of course you will be seeing most calls related to laptops over wireless with *gasp* a wireless problem connecting to the router. Most desktops plug into the routers through hard line thus not having a wireless issue and thus not resulting in a call. I would bet over half of those people that call you have more then one computer in the home and many desktops working away.

Lets do a tally here
My house, 3 PC Desktops, 1 iMac, 2 Macbooks
JC House 3 PC Desktops, 2 Mac Pros, a couple netbooks
RB House 1 Desktop, 1 PC Laptop
MH house 1 iMac, 1 PC Desktop, 1 Work Laptop
RK House 2 PC Desktops, 2 Macbooks
PM House 1 PC Desktop, 1 Mac Mini
PS House 3 PC Desktops 1 Macbook
DQ House 4 PC Desktops 1 PC Laptop
AC House 1 Macbook
LB House 1 Macbook
PB House 1 Macbook
JG House 1 PC Desktop, 1 PC Laptop, 1 PC Netbook
DF House 2 PC Desktop, 1 PC Laptop
BM House 1 Macbook
Jk House 1 PC Deskktop
kG House 1 PC Desktop, 1 PC Netbook

I could go on for another 150 people.

20 PC Desktops
2 Mac Pros (Which are desktops btw)
2 iMacs (Which are desktops btw)
1 Mac Mini (Which is a desktop btw)
9 Macbook, Macbook Pros
5 PC Laptops
4 Netbooks

Yup seems dead to me. PC Sales are down because PC's don't need to be replaced every few years. And If desktops where dying out iMac and Mac Mini sales would reflect this too which they don't. Or do you forget those are NOT laptops....

I wasn't even going to respond to this until I read the mental health issues comment. The only mental health issues I see is blatant denial of the fact Desktops are not dead. Maybe you should start asking your tech support calls how many computers they have in the house and how many are Desktops to get accurate information.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 30, 2011, 04:02 PM
 
Let me try to inject some sense into this debate.

Desktop sales are in decline. There are two reasons for this. Firstly, new desktops today are not enough of an improvement over hardware from 5 years ago to the average PC user that its worth them spending the money. Most of them surf the web, send email, use Office, watch videos and listen to music. A 5 year old desktop does most of that just as well as a new one as far as most people are concerned.
Secondly, laptops are now close enough to desktops in performance price to justify them as a replacement for an old tower.

The only consumer software really pushing the requirements for better hardware in PCs is games and its cheaper to buy an Xbox than a decent graphics card these days so you may as well go with the Xbox since it will stay current longer. Office PCs haven't been stretched hardware-wise for years now.

This all adds up to a decline in desktop sales. Even laptops now are at the point where they are overpowered for the needs of many (if not most) users, hence the iPad. Desktops will always retain a market with certain pros who need big GPUs for CAD or motion graphics or people using ridiculous amounts of RAM for whatever, but everyone else can at least make do with a laptop or iPad and of course they bring other benefits with their mobility.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 30, 2011, 05:57 PM
 
So, anything else other than tweaking the Desktop part of Apple's product line?
     
Big Mac
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Oct 30, 2011, 11:10 PM
 
Expanded hardware choice (especially for desktops but also on the laptop side), better developer relations (I'm shocked that Apple doesn't provide good tools to test old versions of iOS-isn't that a very basic need?), better professional support (not just more frequent Mac Pro updates but also better support of professional software). Oh yeah, better multitasking on iOS. Perhaps better support options-especially for launches (the 4S launch still wasn't smooth). Maybe throw in an extra year of free AppleCare-not like Apple can't afford it.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Oct 30, 2011 at 11:21 PM. )

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
 
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