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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Comments on my new 17"

Comments on my new 17"
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DylanG
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Oct 23, 2005, 09:26 AM
 
I know a lot of you were disappointed in the updates but this was exactly what I was waiting for with the 17". This combination of screen res, features and price is what I wanted a year ago but wasn't available so I bought the 15" instead.

I know everyone wants to see the screen (it's what I wanted to see too) but there's too much daylight for me to get good pics now. I'll try tonight.

My first comment is those of you who wanted a 1900x1200 screen are crazy. Have you ever seen that res at 17"? We have lots of Dells with those panels at work and I hate them. The new PB 17" is 116 dpi and I consider this the limit of tolerability with the OS as it is now. At first I was actually quite disappointed because it was uncomfortable to read text. But I increased the font size in every app and now I'm happy with the readability of text. The interface elements are still a comfortable size but I wouldn't want them any smaller.

I know there are some applications that would benefit from the increased resolution but the general usability of OS X would be much worse, IMO, with a higher DPI. If Apple is only going to offer one screen res then I think they made the right choice. My eyes are only 32 years old but I have a harder time reading small text then I used to. I see how difficult it is for my parents and I don't think they could even use this screen. Maybe some of you eagle eyes can handle 133 dpi but a lot of people can't. A fully scalable UI would be so nice.

I'm not real sure about battery life yet. My one year old 15" gets a pretty consistent 3:15 with how I typically use it (half brightness, wifi, low processor usage). The battery time reading is jumping all over the place on this new one so it's hard to say. Based on last night my best guess is around 4 hours.

I'll answer any questions I can. I never used the prior 17" outside of the store so I can only compare this one to my 15".
     
starman
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Oct 23, 2005, 10:22 AM
 
I have a Dell at 17" 1920x1200 and it's fine for me. I mean really, is an extra 120 pixels across on a 17" diagonal screen going to be THAT big of a deal?

Mike

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DylanG  (op)
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Oct 23, 2005, 10:37 AM
 
You mean an extra 240 horizontal pixels.

1920x1200 = 2,280,000
1680x1050 = 1,754,000

The Dell has 30% more pixels over the same area. Yes, it makes a big difference. Whether that difference is good or bad I guess depends on how your eyes are.
     
pete
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Oct 23, 2005, 10:59 AM
 
I checked out the 15 and 17 inch powerbooks the other day and agree totally that any higher resolution would be awful. They're at their limit as it is. I have good sight, but I felt that it was less comfortable than the previous generation's resolution. Since most apps can be scaled anyway, it doesn't really matter that much, but increasing the resolution further would definitely be problematic for many people.
     
flanders
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Oct 23, 2005, 11:12 AM
 
I picked up a new 17 when they were announced (coming from a 15/combo) and I can say that this resolution is the best choice. I have used a dell xps with a 17 (1920x1200) and it's way too small. I got fairly used to it but always thought that bumping down was more comfortable. I'm really happy with this resolution since it was the same as my cinema display that I can now take with me :-) I can't say the brightness is that differrent but it's bright enough (currently using it on the highest setting and it's fine). As far as battery life, mine is showing 3:14 with everything on including AP and BT, screen on full bright.
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Photios
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Oct 23, 2005, 07:39 PM
 
I picked up a new 17" powerbook on Thursday (10/20) and have been absolutely thrilled with it. The screen is superb, and I really like having a cinema display sitting on my lap. What really impresses me with this machine, is that the build quality is so much better than the previous models. For the past six months, I've been using a thinkpad because I could not get a decent 17" powerbook. I went through over a dozen 17" powerbooks this past spring during April and May, and each one had a problem. One problem that was just glaring was that the case on the powerbooks just was not seated properly, such that in many instances, one could easily put a dime or a penny in the gap around the edges along the perimeter of the palm-rest, where the bottom case and top case just were not flush. One day at the local Apple Store, we opened no less than 5 boxes and could not find one that was not defective. Usually, the defect was in the far corner on the left hand side. Other times, the defect was in the middle, along side the clasp. The manager at the store was very accomodating, and yet embarrassed. We eventually found some that were better than others, and those I purchased, only to have to return each one due to other problems, such as loud intermittent screeching noises form the speakers, a mouse button that would work intermittently, and other problems.

Finally, i just gave up and having been a mac user since 1987, I was disgusted. I picked up a pc laptop, and have been using it since June, but have had numerous 'pc-windows' type issues, and was missing using a powerbook. On Wednesday of this past week, my thinkpad hd got corrupted and I had to restore the hd from a backup clone. My clone software in the process of restoring the original drive, just hosed the original and the clone. I never copied the backup files from the hard drive to restore the system in a case like this, becuase I had cloned the original drive to begin with. In order to get my pc up and running again, I have to either send it back to IBM or spend $45 to have them send me the restore cds. I'm sending it back to them as it does not cost me anything. However, this gave me enough of an excuse to check out the new powerbooks that had been announced the day before. I bought one, sight unseen, as they had no demos running in the store yet, and I can't tell you how pleasently surprised I am that Apple seems to have fixed the glaring problems of the previous 17" model.

I don't know what the experiences that others have had with the previous model 17" pbs, but mine was disastrous. I'm so happy to be back on a mac!

Anyone in the market for a thinkpad?
     
gkorsgard
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Oct 23, 2005, 08:16 PM
 
I got one of the new 17" PB too. I had the first 17" and it was dead. I am glad to say that I do NOT hear the fan come on in this one. For all I know, it has not come on at all! The screen is much better. The only thing I am waiting on is the RAM to come in. It still has the stock 512mb. Hopefully an improvement will come from that upgrade. Overall, for my needs, a great machine.
     
slffl
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Oct 24, 2005, 12:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Photios
I went through over a dozen 17" powerbooks this past spring during April and May, and each one had a problem. One problem that was just glaring was that the case on the powerbooks just was not seated properly, such that in many instances, one could easily put a dime or a penny in the gap around the edges along the perimeter of the palm-rest, where the bottom case and top case just were not flush. :
I really don't think this is a 'defect'. My Rev A 17" has been like this since day one. Sure it doesn't look 'perfect' when it's sitting closed on a table, but it doesn't bother me. I think it has to do with the type of mechanism they are using in the screen hinge. It's nice to hear they might have fixed this cosmetic issue though.
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bcaslis
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Oct 24, 2005, 01:31 AM
 
I've owned every model of the 17" PowerBook so far and I have to say the build quality on this new one seems much better also. The only thing I've seen so far that I don't like is the PC Card eject button. On mine when you pop it out, it's very stiff or something you have to manually pull it out just a little to get the eject lever to eject a PC card. Anyone else's like this? Other than this it's been great. Bright higher res screen, faster hard drive. Just waiting for my memory to come next week also (only $125 for 1GB from crucial.com). I agree that the screen res seems just right. At last, a 20" cinema amount of resolution!
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Photios
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Oct 24, 2005, 01:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by slffl
I really don't think this is a 'defect'. My Rev A 17" has been like this since day one. Sure it doesn't look 'perfect' when it's sitting closed on a table, but it doesn't bother me. I think it has to do with the type of mechanism they are using in the screen hinge. It's nice to hear they might have fixed this cosmetic issue though.

In some instances, you're right, it was simply cosmetic. It sure didn't reflect well on Apple's QC though. Plus, you're shelling out nearly $3000 or more, and you'd like the computer to reflect the price. Anyway, in other machines, I felt that the gap was just dangerous, as one could easily get something inside the machine that could possibly hurt whatever components might be susceptible. Regardless, after seeing so many machines like this, I felt that Apple had lost it's touch, and concern for detail, which has always been something that they have prided themselves on in the past. I never sent Steve Jobs an email regarding this, and in reflecting back on this, I should have, only to see if he would have sent me a response. My gut tells me that he would have been concerned, though perhaps he would not have been. Oh well!
     
Xidius
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Oct 24, 2005, 08:53 AM
 


See the lil nubs on the side of the new display? Those keep it from tilting and becoming warped. They have been on the 15" model for several Revs now, but have only just been added to the 17" models.

Problem solved!

- Xidius
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bcaslis
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Oct 24, 2005, 12:44 PM
 
No offense but you are completely wrong. The little side nubs have always been on the 17" since the very first 1GHz model. It was the 15" that only had it added a few revs ago.

Edit: Yikes, sorry I went back and checked and you are right and I am wrong. It was added to the 17" and was not on there in the beginning. Not sure exactly how long it was been there but it's at least two revs now. You are right it was always on the 15". Guess this is what happens when you post on a Monday morning!

Originally Posted by Xidius


See the lil nubs on the side of the new display? Those keep it from tilting and becoming warped. They have been on the 15" model for several Revs now, but have only just been added to the 17" models.

Problem solved!

- Xidius
( Last edited by bcaslis; Oct 24, 2005 at 01:05 PM. )
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Xidius
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Oct 24, 2005, 01:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by bcaslis
Not sure exactly how long it was been there but it's at least two revs now.
Nope. Brand new. I am sitting on the last rev 17" at this very moment.

- Xidius
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slffl
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Oct 24, 2005, 01:21 PM
 
Well there are nubs on my 1ghz 17", but they are not on the sides, they are right next to the opening of the screen hooks.
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Xidius
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Oct 24, 2005, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by slffl
Well there are nubs on my 1ghz 17", but they are not on the sides, they are right next to the opening of the screen hooks.
Yeah those have always been there. But if you close the lid and put pressure on one of the corners, you will see the lid tips quite easily.

- Xidius
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bcaslis
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Oct 24, 2005, 02:16 PM
 
No, my 1.67GHz with 1400x900 screen has these nubs also. So they are not brand new.

Originally Posted by Xidius
Nope. Brand new. I am sitting on the last rev 17" at this very moment.

- Xidius
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urrl78
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Oct 24, 2005, 04:53 PM
 
My 1.5 Ghz is nubless on the sides. I use those wildeepz clear cushions.
     
Mack
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Oct 24, 2005, 11:02 PM
 
I bought a new 17" PB over the weekend to replace my 15" and I'm very pleased so far. The new screen is very bright and the resolution is perfect. I've been pushing it pretty hard for a couple of days and have yet to hear the fan kick in. Just a great machine all around.
     
sbc
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Oct 25, 2005, 12:09 AM
 
pics please :-D

Hopefully I can see one up close and personal on Wednesday at the Apple store.
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cinder
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Oct 29, 2005, 04:49 AM
 
I received my 17" this morning (BTo w/ 7200 HD)

I am not happy with the screen at all.
There is a very, very small viewing angle - so small that I cannot look at the screen without the top and bottom being darkened.

There are also small little dark ghosts in the bottom left and right corners.

     
BWhaler
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Oct 29, 2005, 07:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Photios
Anyway, in other machines, I felt that the gap was just dangerous, as one could easily get something inside the machine that could possibly hurt whatever components might be susceptible. Regardless, after seeing so many machines like this,

I felt that Apple had lost it's touch, and concern for detail, which has always been something that they have prided themselves on in the past.

I never sent Steve Jobs an email regarding this, and in reflecting back on this, I should have...

This is by design, and a good one at that.

While it is possible a penny could get stuck in the gap, the probability is very, very low.

What is a very real threat to the life and beauty of the display is the oil from your fingers. This oil is all over the keyboard.

PowerBooks are designed to rest slightly above the keyboard so the screen does not touch the keyboard or wrist rest.

So, for all of your pontificating about Apple losing their touch, it is in fact amazing Apple design at work.

And no, Jobs would not of responded since you would of been one of many customers who don't know what they are talking about.

Do you really think Jobs and Apple would of missed such an obvious detail if it were wrong?

Hope this helps relieve you of your disappointment.
     
inkhead
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Oct 29, 2005, 01:39 PM
 
the new 17" powerbooks are better, but the light around the bottom edge (where the dock sits) is disgusting.. That said all 17" in this resolution I could find have this same problem, dell, hp, compaq, the backlight seeps through on the bottom. Makes your display look bright around the edges.
     
lafiamma
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Oct 29, 2005, 02:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by inkhead
the new 17" powerbooks are better, but the light around the bottom edge (where the dock sits) is disgusting.. That said all 17" in this resolution I could find have this same problem, dell, hp, compaq, the backlight seeps through on the bottom. Makes your display look bright around the edges.
Hi inkhead, Do you have a picture that shows the defect that you have explained? Thanks
     
lafiamma
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Oct 29, 2005, 02:02 PM
 
sorry double post
( Last edited by lafiamma; Oct 29, 2005 at 02:53 PM. )
     
Dave Hagan
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Oct 29, 2005, 03:27 PM
 
I was at the Apple Store today, looked at all of the PowerBooks, and all of the displays sucked. You're all right about the viewing angles on the new 17-inch — I'ts narrow. The 15-inch looks dark in the center and brighter at the very edges. I was there try to get a new iMac...there were none in stock, but I was very disappointed at the PowerBooks. The 15-inch was very warm too. I would have thought that problem was addressed.
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iomatic
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Oct 29, 2005, 05:10 PM
 
I wonder if you were looking at current ones, and not display models that have been on for 8 months?

I hope not.

Anyway, this brand new 15" is nearly flawless.
     
Dave Hagan
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Oct 29, 2005, 05:12 PM
 
Nope, they were brand new. I double checked the prices and the resolutions in Sys Prefs
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Mack
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Oct 29, 2005, 05:30 PM
 
It's all a matter of opinion, of course, but I'm very happy with my new 17" PB.

We have a couple of month-old 15" PBs at the office, and - to my eyes, anyway - the screen on my new 17" is much better. Certainly, the brightness and higher resolution make a big difference. But the consistency of the color and brightness across the screen is just fine and the viewing angle is no different than the older machines. My 17" has very small, very slight dark spots at the bottom corners when viewing the screen in the center (they go away as you move your view toward the edge) but neither is a big deal at all. Certainly not as bad as the light-brown stripe on the left-hand side of my 20" Cinema Display.

No LCD is perfect from all angles. The screen on my 17" is the best I've had on a laptop.
     
cinder
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Oct 29, 2005, 08:43 PM
 
I guess I should also note that this is my first laptop I've owned or used so my expectations may have been a little high . . .

I just don't recall having this problem when I would look at my old roommate's previous-model 17".

I talked to a Genius at my local store and he agreed that the lighting wasn't as good as it could be but that at this point, there wasn't really a lot to do about it since it they're so new.
He said that it's possible apple will changes things in later product manufacturing runs and/or that Apple will eventually stock replacement screens for those who are not happy.

So, that's what I'm doing for now - waiting.

In the meantime, I might adjust my intended timeline on getting a 23" for home use with my Powerbook . . .
     
mduell
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Oct 29, 2005, 10:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by BWhaler
This is by design, and a good one at that.

While it is possible a penny could get stuck in the gap, the probability is very, very low.

What is a very real threat to the life and beauty of the display is the oil from your fingers. This oil is all over the keyboard.

PowerBooks are designed to rest slightly above the keyboard so the screen does not touch the keyboard or wrist rest.

So, for all of your pontificating about Apple losing their touch, it is in fact amazing Apple design at work.

And no, Jobs would not of responded since you would of been one of many customers who don't know what they are talking about.

Do you really think Jobs and Apple would of missed such an obvious detail if it were wrong?

Hope this helps relieve you of your disappointment.
If this was true, Apple could just put a slight lip around the display like most other OEMs (IBM, Dell, etc) do.
     
BWhaler
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Oct 30, 2005, 08:19 AM
 
Hey, Hey Mark...Good to see you around. No more Spymac, eh...that place is a ghost town nowadays...

That would work too. Apple, as they tend to do, picked a different path. I was simply pointing out it is not a design flaw or over-site.
     
lafiamma
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Oct 30, 2005, 08:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by BWhaler
Hey, Hey Mark...Good to see you around. No more Spymac, eh...that place is a ghost town nowadays...
Don't mind me asking and excuse me for this question being off track but what has happened to spymac? I have always like to browse their gallery section before their update but it has been ages since that section is available.
     
mduell
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Oct 30, 2005, 06:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by lafiamma
Don't mind me asking and excuse me for this question being off track but what has happened to spymac? I have always like to browse their gallery section before their update but it has been ages since that section is available.
They started another site version upgrade well before it was ready, and they're adding the old features back at a glacial pace.
     
danny_gasperini
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Oct 30, 2005, 08:07 PM
 
I have previewed 2 of the shipping 17" PowerBooks with the 1680x1050 displays. Some things to note compared with the 1440x900 display is the following:

1. The 1680 display is brighter (although not the 46% Apple is claiming) than the 1440 display, but only when viewed at exactly right angles in vertical and horizontal planes. There is a huge brightness shift when you adjust viewing angle, even slightly, that the 1440 display does not suffer from.

2. The colour depth is much poorer on the 1680 display. The 1440 model has much deeper reds and bluer blues and greener greens. Colour calibration will not sufficiently compensate.

3. There is a VERY noticeable light bar that runs across the bottom half an inch of the display on the 1680 models.

4. Unfortunately, both of the 1680 model PowerBooks have an annoying intermittent flicker in the top or botttom 1/3 of the screen (as others have reported) which is very random but very noticeable. Completely unnaceptable.

5. Finally, although the screen resolution has been increased, the video hardware to drive the increased pixel density has not been upgraded. The effect is that the UI seems slightly slower on the 1680 PowerBooks. Exposé is not as smooth, the Dashboard effect is not as smooth, and dragging large windows around the screen is noticeably slower.
     
Mack
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Oct 30, 2005, 09:17 PM
 
Fortunately, my 17" PB suffers from virtually none of the problems noted in the post above.

1. No huge brightness shift here. Does the screen vary with viewing angle? Yes. But no more than other PBs I've owned or worked with. I don't see any great difference with the new 17". In some ways, the screen is as good or better than my 20" Cinema Display (which has always had a light-brown bar down the left-hand side).

2. Can't compare the color depth to the new 15" but I can say that the color depth on the new 17" is as good or better than on some month-old 15" PBs at our office.

3. No light bar on the bottom half-inch of my screen. Very slight, very small shadows in the bottom corners, but no light bar.

4. No flicker. Ever.

5. UI speed is very good. I've been working with video all week, dragging windows around, etc., with no problems at all.

Maybe I'm just lucky. But I'm very pleased with my new machine.
     
striker100
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Oct 31, 2005, 07:52 AM
 
I was at the Palisades Mall in West Nyack NY yesterday and spent some time at the Apple Store playing with the mew 17" Powerbook. I have to say I was disappointed with the display in a major way, here are a few of my observations with the display on this unit:
1) It had a strange iredescent glow that was distracting.
2) The color balance was to the blue side which I suppose could be fixed with calibration.
3) The display backlight was weird, it looked like a flashlight was shining on the middle and everything gradually got darker to the sides and the top and bottom. For lack of a better description I'd say it looked like a halo effect.
4) When I moved my head even slightly to either side the viewing angle changed dramatically.

All in all the display on this particular 17" Powerbook sucked. I'm pretty sure they're not all bad like this but I'd bring it up to the salesperson before plunking down my money. At least this way if you do get a bad display you'll have a better chance getting it exchanged.
     
bwatson009
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Nov 2, 2005, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by striker100
I was at the Palisades Mall in West Nyack NY yesterday and spent some time at the Apple Store playing with the mew 17" Powerbook. I have to say I was disappointed with the display in a major way, here are a few of my observations with the display on this unit:
1) It had a strange iredescent glow that was distracting.
2) The color balance was to the blue side which I suppose could be fixed with calibration.
3) The display backlight was weird, it looked like a flashlight was shining on the middle and everything gradually got darker to the sides and the top and bottom. For lack of a better description I'd say it looked like a halo effect.
4) When I moved my head even slightly to either side the viewing angle changed dramatically.

All in all the display on this particular 17" Powerbook sucked. I'm pretty sure they're not all bad like this but I'd bring it up to the salesperson before plunking down my money. At least this way if you do get a bad display you'll have a better chance getting it exchanged.


Well, i thought i'd give it a few days of tweaking and burn in time, but on day three and at least 8 calibrations later, my eyes are on fire.

Your points are all spot-on for this display. Although the resolution rules the following things are really annoying/recall-able: (adding to what you've already said)

1.) Irridescent glow/strange surface level anomoly really stinks. Next to my 15" 1.67, this new screen seems "dirty" for lack of a better term, and has an odd distorting halo effect especially noticable as you tilt the screen forwards and backwards. Open a blank word doc or text edit doc (anything with a white background) and drag it around while looking at the screen and you'll see exactly what i'm talking about.
2.) Blue color tendency is a real problem, agreed. I have calibrated many macs, but i cannot get rid of the blue tint no matter what i do. Also the native white point leans blue and everything has a grey hue no matter how it's adjusted, Looks like crap next to my 15 and my 20" Cinema display.
3.)The backlight is horrible. A plain grey wallpaper or the startup screen shows how bad it is. It's almost like there's a border around the center of the screen. Bright in the center, dim around the edges, dark corners in the lower part of the screen. (doesn't photograph well, sorry)
and when you tilt the screen backwards slightly, ack!!! It's a combo effect of really bad glare and the strange irridescent glow. This is very bad...
4.)Viewing angle is unacceptable, period, end of statement.

Here's what sucks:

New machine, good luck having it addressed any time soon.

I work on this every day, and my 15 is already going to a co-worker. I cannot ship this thing off for a week or two to be repaired. Hopefully it can be repaired (if/when they acknowledge the problem) locally at an apple store. Apple really needs to step up its enterprise support if they want a real foothold in business. People who work in network security at a major investment bank can't mail out their primary machine for weeks on end. We need on-site support!

That said, the rest of the laptop rules, but the screen is kinda headache inducing so far...

b
15" Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
     
bwatson009
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Nov 2, 2005, 02:33 PM
 
Quick addition:

I don't have the lightbar (which sounds like a gap tolerance issue)
no flickering so far
UI is identical to 15" 1.67 (last rev.)
brightness seems identical to 15" 1.67 (last rev)
15" Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
     
Jawbone54
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Nov 6, 2005, 04:04 PM
 
There are fanatics as far as any hobby goes. Whether it be sports, literature, theatre, or Apple laptop displays, someone is going to go above and beyond the call of duty to say what's wrong, even if it's the slightest thing.

Some of you guys seem to go way overboard. Is it really necessary to be THAT picky? Go outside and jog or something.
     
power142
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Nov 6, 2005, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
If this was true, Apple could just put a slight lip around the display like most other OEMs (IBM, Dell, etc) do.
You're kidding, right? Kinda ruins the impact of the thin, flat display. I don't expect it would be a design "touch" that Apple's team would be much into.

I've had my Rev. A 17" since when they first came out (>2.5yrs) and haven't once gotten anything lost between the screen and keyboard when closed. If you look at the latch closely, the clasps hold the screen at enough distance from the keyboard so that it doesn't leave imprints on the screen (I believe some people originally had problems with this on the 15" models because of the single latch)
     
mdc
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Nov 6, 2005, 06:31 PM
 
i have two questions for 17" powerbook (new and old) owners.

1. is the keyboard backlight *a lot* brighter on the new 17"?
- my 15" powerbook's keyboard backlight was bright, but last night my 17" keyboard backlight turned on and it is *very* bright.

2. is the 17" trackpad flush with the rest of the palm rest?
- my 15" was inset, but my 17" is flush. doesn't bother me, but i was just wondering.
     
Cadaver
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Nov 6, 2005, 10:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman
I have a Dell at 17" 1920x1200 and it's fine for me. I mean really, is an extra 120 pixels across on a 17" diagonal screen going to be THAT big of a deal?

Mike
I had a Dell D800 (from work) with a 15" 1920x1200 screen. Now that was some tiny text!
Actually, it was pretty uncomfortable to use, but it mostly was used as a desktop, docked to 20" 1600x1200 display anyway.
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bwatson009
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Nov 7, 2005, 12:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54
There are fanatics as far as any hobby goes. Whether it be sports, literature, theatre, or Apple laptop displays, someone is going to go above and beyond the call of duty to say what's wrong, even if it's the slightest thing.

Some of you guys seem to go way overboard. Is it really necessary to be THAT picky? Go outside and jog or something.
Flame bait anyone?

But seriously, why are you here? Discussions of this nature are the entire (insert expletive here) point of these forums!!

These displays are very much defective, hence the discussion. I wouldn't call daily headaches "THAT picky", i'd call it a defect.

Your role here is unclear at best...

b
15" Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
     
BENJMNS
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Jan 7, 2006, 10:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54
There are fanatics as far as any hobby goes. Whether it be sports, literature, theatre, or Apple laptop displays, someone is going to go above and beyond the call of duty to say what's wrong, even if it's the slightest thing.

Some of you guys seem to go way overboard. Is it really necessary to be THAT picky? Go outside and jog or something.
I agree with you.
     
Jawbone54
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Jan 8, 2006, 12:26 PM
 
*gives bwatson a pat on the head*

Easy there, chap.
     
slffl
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Jan 20, 2006, 01:38 PM
 
I just saw the new 17" and 15" last night. After using a 1440x900 17" for almost 3 years now, I am REALLY dissapointed with the increased resolution. It makes everything much harder to see and use.

I'm from the camp that if someone needs these higher resolutions than they should connect it to an external screen. I hope apple offers different resolutions sometime this year. Next thing you know we'll have 2 button powerbooks.
"I'm the commander - see, I don't need to explain - I don't need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the President. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."

- Dictator George W. Bush, Washington Post, 11-19-02
     
mduell
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Jan 20, 2006, 08:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by slffl
I'm from the camp that if someone needs these higher resolutions than they should connect it to an external screen. I hope apple offers different resolutions sometime this year. Next thing you know we'll have 2 button powerbooks.
I'm from the camp that if someone needs lower resolutions then they should connect it to an external screen. I hope Apple offers HD resolutions sometime this year in their laptops.
     
slffl
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Jan 20, 2006, 08:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
I'm from the camp that if someone needs lower resolutions then they should connect it to an external screen. I hope Apple offers HD resolutions sometime this year in their laptops.
I can't wait to see you using your 13.3" @ 2560x1600. Warm water and a soft cloth gets the nose prints off really well.
"I'm the commander - see, I don't need to explain - I don't need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the President. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."

- Dictator George W. Bush, Washington Post, 11-19-02
     
mduell
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Jan 20, 2006, 11:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by slffl
I can't wait to see you using your 13.3" @ 2560x1600. Warm water and a soft cloth gets the nose prints off really well.
I would absolutely love a display like that. Text would be absolutely beautiful, and just as readable at a distance as it is today. There is no relationship between screen resolution and text size in inches. With a 250dpi screen, use 250 dpi fonts.
     
photoeditor
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Jan 20, 2006, 11:44 PM
 
mduell is right. Ideally, the number of pixels per inch and the size of the text should be completely independent -- in other words, a scalable interface. But Mac OS X currently only supports scaling of the text, and then only through using the developer tools; any type of rasterized image, such as icons in Photoshop or Microsoft Word palettes, will not scale with the text, nor will things like toolboxes and sliders.

Eventually, the interface will be scalable, and then we'll see how close LCD manufacturers can get to the 300dpi (dots per inch) level at which the human eye generally can no longer perceive rasterization/pixellation. But of course what that means in conjunction with a user scalable interface is that text won't be smaller, it will simply be a lot sharper and true-to-life. Without a user scalable interface, of course, 300 dpi text (or even the 140 or so dpi of some high-res Windows laptops) is not easy to read to say the least, so until we get that scalable interface, we've pretty much hit a ceiling in terms of screen resolution.

Right now, without the scalable interface I can well understand why people are struggling with legibility on the 114dpi (15 inch PB) and 117dpi (17 inch) displays, even though I think the one on the 17 is actually of very good quality. Luckily, no doubt with the scan lines disaster on the 15 inch PB in mind, Apple have scaled back to an industry standard 110 dpi display for the MacBook. For reference, the 12 inch iBook and Powerbook are 106 dpi, the spring 2002-October 2005 15 inch Powerbooks were all 102 dpi, and most desktop 17 inch, 21 inch and wide aspect displays are right around the 100 dpi mark give or take a couple.
     
   
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