[♥]

9/11 happened and in a knee jerk reaction this country went to "war."

Our country is now officially bankrupt. The dollar is junk. We are all broke. Worst of all, thousands of innocent American men and women are dead as the result of defending a country that we attacked - even though that country never attacked us.

The economy is the worst it has ever been and going to get worse.

The truth is that it seems as though the terrorists of 9/11 accomplished their goal: This country is in terrible shape.

Sorry, but just had to vent. Now I'll go eat some ice cream.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by ♥ 

9/11 happened and in a knee jerk reaction this country went to "war."

It's funny how a foreign enemy killing thousands of Americans will make one's "knee jerk". I bet those guys at Pearl Harbor would have a real laugh at your logic.

Our country is now officially bankrupt.

Your opinion is noted.

The dollar is junk.

It's low right now, but as I've outlined elsewhere, it's that way do to a concerted effort to make it that way.

We are all broke.

Speak for yourself. I"m loaded.

Worst of all, thousands of innocent American men and women are dead as the result of defending a country that we attacked - even though that country never attacked us.

Again, thank God again for Pearl Harbor, or Adolf Hitler would have been allowed to have killed more Jews if we'd never had been attacked.

The economy is the worst it has ever been and going to get worse.

Forget it. I was going to continue rebutting, but what's the point. You obviously don't have a clue. Instead of the ice cream, see about getting some anti-depressants.

[Cipher13]

The terrorists won as soon as freedoms were sacrificed for "security".

[Def_ears]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

It's funny how a foreign enemy killing thousands of Americans will make one's "knee jerk". I bet those guys at Pearl Harbor would have a real laugh at your logic.



Your opinion is noted.



It's low right now, but as I've outlined elsewhere, it's that way do to a concerted effort to make it that way.



Speak for yourself. I"m loaded.



Again, thank God again for Pearl Harbor, or Adolf Hitler would have been allowed to have killed more Jews if we'd never had been attacked.



Forget it. I was going to continue rebutting, but what's the point. You obviously don't have a clue. Instead of the ice cream, see about getting some anti-depressants.

You are a complete lemming.

[Brien]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

The terrorists won as soon as freedoms were sacrificed for "security".

QFT.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Great, so the terrorists have defeated whiney liberals.

Go crawl in a corner somewhere, wallow in your defeat, and leave the rest of us alone.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Great, so the terrorists have defeated whiney liberals.

Go crawl in a corner somewhere, wallow in your defeat, and leave the rest of us alone.

QFT

[♥]

Actually, I'm a registered Republican. Voted for Bush twice.

[Cold Warrior]

I'd hardly call most Americans broke. The subprime mess kicked up some issues, but that has just been a hard reminder that not everyone can afford to own a home.

The US isn't bankrupt. It has an enormous GDP, and it's debt ratio is modest, not over the top.

The economy is the worst eVar!!!??? How do you figure? Some companies are reporting large earnings, others negative to neutral profits. Nothing out of the ordinary. We could always nosedive into a recession, but you're just fear-mongering, overreacting, and speculating.

Also, the terrorist have not won. Their (Al Qaeda's) goal was to recreate the caliphate, using a massive US reaction to 9-11 as the catalyst to spur a region-wide, pan-Arab revolt against their 'corrupt' and apostate governments. The US reacted, but not in the manner AQ planned for (small numbers in Afghanistan, instead of a massive Gulf War-style land invasion), and the uprising didn't happen.

Iraq happened later, but even this did not create the momentum for the caliphate.

AQ failed. Rest assured though they're still plotting.

[RIRedinPA]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

I'd hardly call most Americans broke. The subprime mess kicked up some issues, but that has just been a hard reminder that not everyone can afford to own a home.

I would say that though most Americans are not broke they are getting pinched. Rising fuel and other cost, stagnant pay, low savings, etc. are making folks edgy. Now, some of this is their own fault, no one saves, even folks making a good dime and have the expendable income), instead they try to live a lifestyle above what they can afford, are borrowed to the hilt and have placed themselves in a position where a medical crisis or layoff will take everything they have away. Like I said, lots of blame to go around, as the Clinton's pumped up the volume on Wall Street for the dot.com bubble the Bushies were more than happy to do the same for the housing bubble. In reality the bloodletting is good but folks don't like pain or being forced to add the words "responsibility" and "sacrifice" into their personal American lexicons.

The US isn't bankrupt. It has an enormous GDP, and it's debt ratio is modest, not over the top.

We borrow (as a nation) $655B annually to make payments on other debt. The cost of that has not really been felt as interest rates have been incredibly low (see comment above about pumping up the housing bubble). One of the dangers of the sub prime mess will be the tightening of credit and the raising of rates, which will have an adverse effect on national debt.

The economy is the worst eVar!!!??? How do you figure? Some companies are reporting large earnings, others negative to neutral profits. Nothing out of the ordinary. We could always nosedive into a recession, but you're just fear-mongering, overreacting, and speculating.

Agreed. Despite the sub prime mess the economy is chugging along. Growth is going to slow a bit but it continues to expand. The problem with our economy though is that it is based on consumerism and no longer on the manufacture of things. We're an importer/buyer nation more so than an exporter/seller one. But how long can the purchase of chachi items drive an economy. I'd feel a whole lot more comfortable if our economy wasn't based on how Wal-Mart did in it's last quarter. I think we are in for a down turn, just not so sure how bad it will be.

Also, the terrorist have not won. Their (Al Qaeda's) goal was to recreate the caliphate, using a massive US reaction to 9-11 as the catalyst to spur a region-wide, pan-Arab revolt against their 'corrupt' and apostate governments. The US reacted, but not in the manner AQ planned for (small numbers in Afghanistan, instead of a massive Gulf War-style land invasion), and the uprising didn't happen.

In the sense you wrote, no, they haven't. I would term it differently. Have the terrorist won. No. Have their actions resulted in changes in America for the worse. Yes.

AQ failed. Rest assured though they're still plotting.

Agreed.

[RAILhead]

I just wiped my butt with a roll of $20s, and blew my nose in a $50.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by ♥ 

9/11 happened and in a knee jerk reaction this country went to "war."

Our country is now officially bankrupt. The dollar is junk. We are all broke. Worst of all, thousands of innocent American men and women are dead as the result of defending a country that we attacked - even though that country never attacked us.

The economy is the worst it has ever been and going to get worse.

The truth is that it seems as though the terrorists of 9/11 accomplished their goal: This country is in terrible shape.

Sorry, but just had to vent. Now I'll go eat some ice cream.

Are you for real? You think this economy is bad, with it's historically low unemployment rate, historically low interest rates and GDP growth? People have had it so good for so long they don't know what bad economies look like. You want to know what could bankrupt the country? Social Insecurity and Medicare.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I just wiped my butt with a roll of $20s, and blew my nose in a $50.

Oh come on, the dollar is still worth more than toilet paper!

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by ♥ 

9/11 happened and in a knee jerk reaction this country went to "war."

Our country is now officially bankrupt. The dollar is junk. We are all broke. Worst of all, thousands of innocent American men and women are dead as the result of defending a country that we attacked - even though that country never attacked us.

The economy is the worst it has ever been and going to get worse.

The truth is that it seems as though the terrorists of 9/11 accomplished their goal: This country is in terrible shape.

Sorry, but just had to vent. Now I'll go eat some ice cream.

Almost every comment you made above is WRONG.

Where have you been hiding? Under a Iranian rock?

Both the Iranian government and Left wing Liberals love to pump out hateful lies like this.

[RAILhead]

I think it's funny how people think our economy sucks and is at it's worst, yet they want us to boycott consumerism on Black Friday.

I love commies!

[goMac]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I think it's funny how people think our economy sucks and is at it's worst, yet they want us to boycott consumerism on Black Friday.

I love commies!

Erm, I don't know of any liberals that are boycotting Black Friday.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Are you for real? You think this economy is bad, with it's historically low unemployment rate, historically low interest rates and GDP growth? People have had it so good for so long they don't know what bad economies look like. You want to know what could bankrupt the country? Social Insecurity and Medicare.

QFT

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Are you for real? You think this economy is bad, with it's historically low unemployment rate, historically low interest rates and GDP growth? People have had it so good for so long they don't know what bad economies look like. You want to know what could bankrupt the country? Social Insecurity and Medicare.

QFT

QFT

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by ♥ 

9/11 happened and in a knee jerk reaction this country went to "war."

Our country is now officially bankrupt. The dollar is junk. We are all broke. Worst of all, thousands of innocent American men and women are dead as the result of defending a country that we attacked - even though that country never attacked us.

The economy is the worst it has ever been and going to get worse.

The truth is that it seems as though the terrorists of 9/11 accomplished their goal: This country is in terrible shape.

Sorry, but just had to vent. Now I'll go eat some ice cream.

I'm not broke, this has been the best fiscal year I've ever had.


but I do want us out of Iraq, ever since we arrived there we've looked like a monkey ****ing a football, and it depresses me.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'm not broke, this has been the best fiscal year I've ever had.


but I do want us out of Iraq, ever since we arrived there we've looked like a monkey ****ing a football, and it depresses me.

Number one: Your emotional response to what's going on means precisely "dick".

Number two: Things are turning around in Iraq. Even the "regular" media is starting to admit that. The only we we will EVER get out of Iraq is to fix the mess. No matter which lame ass party is in charge.

[Spliffdaddy]

If this is what a bad economy is like - then I'll take as many years of it as I can get.

All you whiners will just have to suck it up and accept the fact that the US will maintain a presence in Iraq until your grandchildren grow old. Nancy Pelosi won't help you, Harry Reid won't help you, and Hillary Clinton sure as hell won't help you. And those are the very best minds the 'progressives' (liberals) have to offer.

So nibble on some granola, hug some trees, and wash your Prius. Life is not going to be easy for leftwing Democrats.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Number one: Your emotional response to what's going on means precisely "dick".

Number two: Things are turning around in Iraq. Even the "regular" media is starting to admit that. The only we we will EVER get out of Iraq is to fix the mess. No matter which lame ass party is in charge.

My emotional response means exactly ONE, kind sir. Same as yours.

From the start we should have been kicking their asses, including Afghanistan (which we're still ignoring, for some reason). The fact that we're just now starting to face the right direction doesn't change how pitifully we've performed for over 3 years. I have seldom voiced issues with why we're there, only the lack of effort and coordination we've shown.



and yes, I like my monkey ****ing a football analogy, I use it as often as I can. It's a mental image that always makes me chuckle, for some reason.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

My emotional response means exactly ONE, kind sir. Same as yours.

Then I hereby change my use of the word "your" to "our".

From the start we should have been kicking their asses, including Afghanistan (which we're still ignoring, for some reason). The fact that we're just now starting to face the right direction doesn't change how pitifully we've performed for over 3 years. I have seldom voiced issues with why we're there, only the lack of effort and coordination we've shown.

I agree. Our handling of the war has been unworthy of what we are supposed to be about and what we have accomplished in the past…but merely bitching about how crappily we've done will do nothing to help the situation. We must "move forward" as Bush would say.

and yes, I like my monkey ****ing a football analogy, I use it as often as I can. It's a mental image that always makes me chuckle, for some reason.

We are in agreement here! I also like "lumbering, ham-handed mongoloids".

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I agree. Our handling of the war has been unworthy of what we are supposed to be about and what we have accomplished in the past…but merely bitching about how crappily we've done will do nothing to help the situation. We must "move forward" as Bush would say.

Oh well, I guess we're not too far apart on this after all. I just want to see a combat boot up some insurgent ass, both if they'll fit. Better yet, I need to be able to tune in to NPR and listen to them complain that US troops are being mean to the militants. There's nothing wrong with wanting your money's worth out of a war.

We are in agreement here! I also like "lumbering, ham-handed mongoloids".

that one's good too.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Are you for real? You think this economy is bad, with it's historically low unemployment rate, historically low interest rates and GDP growth? People have had it so good for so long they don't know what bad economies look like. You want to know what could bankrupt the country? Social Insecurity and Medicare.

You mean like this good economy? BBC NEWS | Business | World markets slump on US woes

Unfortunately, you're just another apologist for the the fewer and fewer who are sharing more and more of the wealth, while those who make them rich get left behind.

[Chuckit]

Complaining about how some people have more money than you is just sour grapes, not a valid analysis of how well the economy is doing. If somebody manages to make a lot of money, so ****ing what? It doesn't hurt me. I'm still making just as much as if that person had never existed, so the fact that the gap between me and him is growing means precisely ****-all. Heck, without the amount of wealth he's probably helped create to get so much cash out of it, I might be worse off without him. I truly don't think my life would be better if the founders of Apple and Google had decided to become plumbers instead.

[Graviton]

"The Terrorists"

The generic bad guys.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

while those who make them rich get left behind.

Speak for yourself. I've been "blue collar" my whole life and I'm doing great.

The "average" working person has all kinds of opportunities to improve their situation, they just, for various reasons, don't or won't take them. (or even notice them)

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Graviton 

"The Terrorists"

The generic bad guys.

It's worked throughout history. Some people are easily scared, and as a result they'll gladly give up what they have, in order to somehow "protect" it. They can't even see the folly (or danger) in that line of "reasoning."

[Cold Warrior]

I don't know anyone who has given up anything. Some inconvenience at the airport, but no Americans I know have given up 'what they have' for protection.

Can you name any Americans who have been victimized by post-9/11 legislation?

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Speak for yourself. I've been "blue collar" my whole life and I'm doing great.

The "average" working person has all kinds of opportunities to improve their situation, they just, for various reasons, don't or won't take them. (or even notice them)

Yes, you're doing great, so the whole world should see things like you do. It's inconceivable, isn't it, how not everybody thinks like you?

[Graviton]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

It's worked throughout history. Some people are easily scared, and as a result they'll gladly give up what they have, in order to somehow "protect" it. They can't even see the folly (or danger) in that line of "reasoning."

"May Nations learn that “existing circumstances” have been the Watchword of Despotism in all Ages and in all Countries;" - The London Corresponding Society (1798)

[BRussell]

The terrorists win when:
1. We invade Iraq,
2. We torture people,
3. We increase government power and reduce civil liberties, and
4. We don't go shopping on Black Friday.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

The terrorists win when:
1. We invade Iraq,
2. We torture people,
3. We increase government power and reduce civil liberties, and
4. We don't go shopping on Black Friday.

Not true.

The only time the terrorists win is when you concede to their demands.

We may have to make temporary adjustments to our lifestyle until they are defeated, but that does not make them a winner. Everything changes.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Not true.

The only time the terrorists win is when you concede to their demands.

The entire idea of terrorism is to scare people and make them start acting irrationally. If we do that, it's not inaccurate to say the terrorists are winning. Maybe not "win" in the final sense, but their plan is the one that's being followed. It's kind of a Luke Skywalker/Darth Vader kind of thing.

[tie]

We certainly have not lost. A lot of people in this forum have effectively surrendered. But hopefully in the next election, we'll elect a president who wants to fight for our freedoms. We're a strong country, and can withstand assaults from Bush's ilk.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by tie 

But hopefully in the next election, we'll elect a president who wants to fight for our freedoms. We're a strong country, and can withstand assaults from Bush's ilk.

Unfortunately, none of the front-runners from either party have any of those qualities.


2012?

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I just wiped my butt with a roll of $20s, and blew my nose in a $50.

Scroll down and hit the Foreclosures (repossessions) button. You repulse me. And you call yourself a minister. You're repugnent.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7070935.stm

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

Scroll down and hit the Foreclosures (repossessions) button. You repulse me. And you call yourself a minister. You're repugnent.

BBC NEWS | Business | Foreclosure wave sweeps America

Repugnent [sic]? That's rich coming from "you guys".

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

Scroll down and hit the Foreclosures (repossessions) button. You repulse me. And you call yourself a minister. You're repugnent.

BBC NEWS | Business | Foreclosure wave sweeps America

First off, when have I ever said I was a minister?

Second, take a guess as to what happens when you lend money to people that have no hope of ever paying their dues? D'oh!

Third, there's a reason my AGI is as low as it is, so don't preach to me.

[tie]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Unfortunately, none of the front-runners from either party have any of those qualities.

I disagree. I think some of the front-runners from either party would work out okay in the end. Of course some are better than others. But not every Republican is willing to give up our freedoms to the terrorists, and not every Democrat is willing to follow the polls wherever they lead.

On the other hand, I think Giuliani and Clinton both reflect some of Bush's worst aspects.

[Def_ears]

If Ron Paul is not elected, this country is screwed.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by tie 

I disagree. I think some of the front-runners from either party would work out okay in the end. Of course some are better than others. But not every Republican is willing to give up our freedoms to the terrorists, and not every Democrat is willing to follow the polls wherever they lead.

On the other hand, I think Giuliani and Clinton both reflect some of Bush's worst aspects.

Yeah, I do believe she's going to win though, and that really makes me nervous.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Yeah, I do believe she's going to win though, and that really makes me nervous.

You mean the Democratic nomination and not the actual election, right? Hillary cannot get votes from moderates, and even a lot of what should be her own constituency will refuse to vote for her. She may be able to get the nomination, but if so, the Democrats will just be conceding the race early.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

You mean the Democratic nomination and not the actual election, right? Hillary cannot get votes from moderates, and even a lot of what should be her own constituency will refuse to vote for her. She may be able to get the nomination, but if so, the Democrats will just be conceding the race early.

Is she on the losing end of any poll pitting her against a republican nominee? I don't see one: She's ahead in every poll against every republican.

There's still a long way to go, and things can definitely change, but those polls show that it's just not true that she can't get the votes.

[Chuckit]

Those polls quite faithfully reflect the fact that she isn't up against any Republican nominee in any election yet and people are currently not liking Republicans very much. But I mean, even in those polls, the undecideds are enough to turn the tide. And all that is with the whole Republican party having been attacking for seven years and Hillary not even being seriously campaigned against yet.

[Kevin]

Wow, if I didn't know better I would say the OP was written by a bored mod with a second account. It's just that trollish and full of FUD.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Yeah, I do believe she's going to win though, and that really makes me nervous.

I'd put your mind at ease if I was you.

[Atomic Rooster]

New York hunger levels 'rising'

Food Bank is unable to meet demand, with shelves empty
Over 1.3 million people, one in six New Yorkers, cannot afford enough food, with queues at soup kitchens getting longer, anti-poverty groups say...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7106726.stm

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Not true.

The only time the terrorists win is when you concede to their demands.

We may have to make temporary adjustments to our lifestyle until they are defeated, but that does not make them a winner. Everything changes.

I think you would have to be severely mentally lacking if you think that our country is so fragile that we would ever concede to their demands, if by that you mean religious conversion.

Religious conversion may be an ultimate goal, but it is not an immediate goal, because it simply isn't realistic. That would be like me wishing that Microsoft would go bankrupt. Baby steps.