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stupendousman · Oct 1, 2009, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

I have great fun imagining the kind of person that *actually* believes that.

You don't have to "imagine" it. It's real.

Liberals seek health-care access for illegals - Washington Times

Have a blast!

ebuddy · Oct 1, 2009, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

You don't have to "imagine" it. It's real.

Liberals seek health-care access for illegals - Washington Times

Have a blast!

... and of course if that doesn't work you could always just make the current illegal immigrants, legal. Then, they will be legal immigrants eligible for health care. YAYY!

Wiskedjak · Oct 1, 2009, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

You don't have to "imagine" it. It's real.

Liberals seek health-care access for illegals - Washington Times

Have a blast!

Ok, now that's just dumb. I can't imagine why anybody would want to provide health care to illegal immigrants. But, it appears to be only 21 Democrats calling for it.

I can see the argument for providing health care to *legal* immigrants if they're paying the same taxes as citizens. If they can't use the services that those taxes are paying for, then they shouldn't have to pay the taxes.

ironknee · Oct 1, 2009, 10:25 PM

if an illegal gets sick... let's say with swine flu and goes to an emergency room... should we (USA) not treat them because they are here illegally?

isn't that the humane thing to do? but also, if we don't treat this person, the swine flu may spread... to real americans?

stupendousman · Oct 1, 2009, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Ok, now that's just dumb. I can't imagine why anybody would want to provide health care to illegal immigrants. But, it appears to be only 21 Democrats calling for it.

I can see the argument for providing health care to *legal* immigrants if they're paying the same taxes as citizens. If they can't use the services that those taxes are paying for, then they shouldn't have to pay the taxes.

I wouldn't strongly oppose giving LEGAL immigrants who are employed, following the rules and paying taxes,the benefits of the same services citizens have. I haven't thought about that too much, but I'd have to hear arguments for and against to really figure out if I'd be for it or against.

The problem is that like Ebuddy pointed out, it's not really just 12 Democrats who want to make the people here who are here illegally get the services. Obama wants to give them to them too, but do it by just ignoring the fact that they are here illegally and giving them defacto "citizen" status. Really, a difference without a distinction.

stupendousman · Oct 1, 2009, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

if an illegal gets sick... let's say with swine flu and goes to an emergency room... should we (USA) not treat them because they are here illegally?

isn't that the humane thing to do? but also, if we don't treat this person, the swine flu may spread... to real americans?

I believe the law already allows for this. We are talking about universal preventive health care coverage in addition to the emergency health care coverage providers have to give to everyone on their dime.

ironknee · Oct 1, 2009, 10:39 PM

^^

If there was a magic button that makes all illegal immigrants not get employment/benefits (healthcare etc) and NOT be employed by those who do now...

a. what would you think.
b. what would that do to our economy?
c. what would you do with these illegals? round them up? what about the sick? (again, their sickness might spread to our REAL americans...

ironknee · Oct 1, 2009, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

I believe the law already allows for this. We are talking about universal preventive health care coverage in addition to the emergency health care coverage providers have to give to everyone on their dime.

"preventive health care coverage" sounds like an investment in the future of america

well, if i were employed by a healthcare company with my 401(k) at stake, i would be afraid all this profit on people's health might go away...

as a consumer of healthcare insurance, i want my coverage to be there when i need it without any excuses like pre-existing conditions or a cap in coverage... reminds me of the credit card companies who raise your APR without any reason.

as a human who lives in the USA, we help those who need it... right?

hyteckit · Oct 1, 2009, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

You don't have to "imagine" it. It's real.

Liberals seek health-care access for illegals - Washington Times

Have a blast!

Oh f*ck.

Illegals can buy health insurance on the exchange.

Illegals can buy milk at the store. Oh f*ck.

Tourist can buy stuff in the US! Oh f*ck!

The sky is falling. Oh f*ck.

hyteckit · Oct 1, 2009, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

Now the Democrats are getting upset that the "jig is up" regarding their attempts to do what Obama said the healthcare plan wouldn't do. Not only do they not want any safeguards, they've let it be known that they simply want people here ILLEGALLY to be able to take advantage of government sponsored health care.

How dare Obama say that the plan should include safeguards and not include illegal aliens just so a Republican politician's accusations that Obama was lying wouldn't be true!

Senators turn back ID requirement for immigrant healthcare - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

Because the bill has a five-year waiting period for legal immigrants to obtain health insurance tax credits and to purchase coverage through the exchange.

5 year waiting period!

hyteckit · Oct 1, 2009, 11:36 PM

So conservatives want:

1. Undocumented aliens should not be able to buy health insurance from the exchange
2. Legal immigrants must wait 5 YEARS to be able to obtain health insurance tax credits and to purchase coverage through the exchange.

Next:

3. illegals immigrants should just get abortions because they won't be able to get emergency care when they give birth

Chuckit · Oct 2, 2009, 01:27 AM

Where did a conservative here say they wanted legal immigrants to have to wait five years? I missed that.

hyteckit · Oct 2, 2009, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Where did a conservative here say they wanted legal immigrants to have to wait five years? I missed that.

From stupendousman's link that I was quoting maybe?

Senators turn back ID requirement for immigrant healthcare - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

the Baucus bill would implement a five-year waiting period for legal immigrants to obtain health insurance tax credits and to purchase coverage through the exchange.

Updated story:

Senators reject five-year wait for immigrant healthcare - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

Democrats on the Senate Finance Committee defeated a Republican amendment to a healthcare bill that would require legal immigrants to wait five years before accessing federal health benefits.

Oh no! Democrats are against a 5 year waiting period for legal immigrants to receive tax credits for health insurance or to buying plans on the health insurance exchange.

The horror!

stupendousman · Oct 2, 2009, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Oh no! Democrats are against a 5 year waiting period for legal immigrants to receive tax credits for health insurance or to buying plans on the health insurance exchange.

The horror!

You really aren't very good at this. That fact actually hurts your case rather than helps it. People can see the desperation in your arguments and will marginalize your points.

The "five year waiting period" has NOTHING to do with what I posted. As I know you are aware, the fact that they want there to be no safeguards against having ILLEGAL immigrants apply and get government sponsored care (what Obama said could not happen, but lied about) is the point, and is even what the headline states.

If you can't argue the point, stop embarrassing yourself by offering up silly diversions.

hyteckit · Oct 2, 2009, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

You really aren't very good at this. That fact actually hurts your case rather than helps it. People can see the desperation in your arguments and will marginalize your points.

The "five year waiting period" has NOTHING to do with what I posted. As I know you are aware, the fact that they want there to be no safeguards against having ILLEGAL immigrants apply and get government sponsored care (what Obama said could not happen, but lied about) is the point, and is even what the headline states.

If you can't argue the point, stop embarrassing yourself by offering up silly diversions.

The link you posted has NOTHING to do with "five year waiting period"?

Really? Guess you don't read what you post?

Senators turn back ID requirement for immigrant healthcare - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

EDITOR'S NOTE: This item has been updated to correct the erroneous statement that current law requires a five-year waiting period for legal immigrants to obtain Children's Health Insurance Program coverage and that the Baucus bill would implement a five-year waiting period for legal immigrants to obtain health insurance tax credits and to purchase coverage through the exchange.

Then this link to an article written by Jeffrey Young as a followup and correction, talking about the Baucus bill.

Senators reject five-year wait for immigrant healthcare - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

Democrats on the Senate Finance Committee defeated a Republican amendment to a healthcare bill that would require legal immigrants to wait five years before accessing federal health benefits.

stupendousman · Oct 2, 2009, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

The link you posted has NOTHING to do with "five year waiting period"?

Yes, the link does. But, unless you are mentally challenged, you know that it also includes the information that backs the point I made. The fact that you can't refute it is why you've changed the subject to the "five year waiting period."

You can keep trying, but you are digging yourself out with a sieve. It's like watching the Keystone Cops.

hyteckit · Oct 3, 2009, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

Yes, the link does. But, unless you are mentally challenged, you know that it also includes the information that backs the point I made. The fact that you can't refute it is why you've changed the subject to the "five year waiting period."

You can keep trying, but you are digging yourself out with a sieve. It's like watching the Keystone Cops.

The link you posted has NOTHING to do with "five year waiting period"?

hyteckit · Oct 3, 2009, 05:57 AM

By the way, the only safeguard you need: SSN - Social Security Number

My grandmother who lives in California has medicare. Doesn't have a driver license nor a photo ID.

She applies for medicare using her SSN.

Some illegal immigrant tried to use my grandmother's SSN to get work on a farm in Florida.

Obvious red flag, since my grandmother lives in California and is 80 years old. Not some 40 year old Mexican woman who works in Florida.

My grandmother received a letter asking to verify her information and SSN.

Case closed.

stupendousman · Oct 3, 2009, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

The link you posted has NOTHING to do with "five year waiting period"?

Which part of "yes, it does" did not compute with you?

I've already answered that question and explained how it was a red herring because you didn't have an argument.

Did you just entirely skip over my response? I explained that while the link in question contains information about that, I wasn't debating the waiting limit - I was debating the desire to not require identification in checking citizenship. Did you not read that part of the link?

Senate Finance Committee Democrats rejected a proposed requirement that immigrants prove their identity with photo identification when signing up for federal healthcare programs.