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timmerk · Jun 23, 2004, 07:10 PM

Hi,

Anyone use something else besides Adium (not AIM, Fire, or iChat, either)?

Adium gets more bloaty and buggy by each release. It's a shame. They had such a nice thing going with version 1.

Let me know of good alternatives!

Thanks!

gorickey · Jun 23, 2004, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by timmerk:
Adium gets more bloaty and buggy by each release. It's a shame. They had such a nice thing going with version 1.

timmerk · Jun 23, 2004, 07:34 PM

I guess you haven't been getting each nightly since the first days of the 2.0 build. It got more stable, etc. But ever since they have the "public" betas, they all introduce huge bugs and it crashes all the time.

I'm sure other people know what I'm talking about (minus the Adium devs and Adium lovers here)

nooon · Jun 23, 2004, 07:59 PM

have you tried Proteus?

jokell82 · Jun 23, 2004, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by timmerk:
I guess you haven't been getting each nightly since the first days of the 2.0 build. It got more stable, etc. But ever since they have the "public" betas, they all introduce huge bugs and it crashes all the time.

I'm sure other people know what I'm talking about (minus the Adium devs and Adium lovers here)

I'm guessing he has, and he knows that you're completely wrong. It's not bloated at all, it's actually the smallest chat client I've found (if you want Bloated, check out Proteus). There are no more "huge bugs" in the program, and if you experience them you should fill out a bug report, because you're the only one getting them.

As for crashing, I haven't had an Adium crash in a very long time...

neoTony · Jun 23, 2004, 08:27 PM

*WHAP*

[insert adium kneejerk reaction and torrent of proteus vs. adium vs. fire vs. MS office comments here]

Or not.

timmerk · Jun 23, 2004, 08:29 PM

I do fill out the bug reports, and I guarantee you, I'm not the only one. A know lots of people who complain about the exact same crashing bugs.

I know there would be Adium zealots around here, it's a shame they have to bring the thread off topic.

Right now, I am trying Proteus - I can see why Adium people hate it - they have the same features as Adium, but it works (so far at least, I'm still testing it)

fireside · Jun 23, 2004, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by timmerk:
I guess you haven't been getting each nightly since the first days of the 2.0 build. It got more stable, etc. But ever since they have the "public" betas, they all introduce huge bugs and it crashes all the time.

I'm sure other people know what I'm talking about (minus the Adium devs and Adium lovers here)

adium rarely crashes on me anymore with the newest builds, after they fixed the connection doodad or remade it or whatever.

gorickey · Jun 23, 2004, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by timmerk:
I guess you haven't been getting each nightly since the first days of the 2.0 build.

Ironically, I have...hence:

I find the latest builds being the best, which of course, just makes plain 'ol sense!

jguidroz · Jun 25, 2004, 09:56 AM

I'll have to agree. I've been using the latest adiumX builds, and I have had no problems with it. I even got a friend to switch over who only used FIRE and didn't think of using anything else. Once you use a borderless and transparent buddy list, why would you want to use anything else?

cybergoober · Jun 25, 2004, 10:17 AM

I had been looking for a multi-protocol chat client for a while. After testing many I just recently made the switch to Adium and I have had none of the problems you describe.

I don't even know why I bothered posting that since you'll just write it off as me being an "Adium zealot".

BTW - I think most don't like Proteus because it's not free as Adium is.

Horsepoo!!! · Jun 25, 2004, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by cybergoober:
I had been looking for a multi-protocol chat client for a while. After testing many I just recently made the switch to Adium and I have had none of the problems you describe.

I don't even know why I bothered posting that since you'll just write it off as me being an "Adium zealot".

BTW - I think most don't like Proteus because it's not free as Adium is.

Do you also hate OmniWeb?

There is a very vocal Adium crowd here and on IRC that is very annoying. Relax beyotches, it's only an IM client.

Back OT:

timmerk, the only other multi-IM client that is not Fire or Adium is Proteus. If you haven't given it a try, do so. It's pretty good and it's obvious that the vocal Adium crowd will try to put it down at any lengths.

Horsepoo!!! · Jun 25, 2004, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by jguidroz:
I'll have to agree. I've been using the latest adiumX builds, and I have had no problems with it. I even got a friend to switch over who only used FIRE and didn't think of using anything else. Once you use a borderless and transparent buddy list, why would you want to use anything else?

Because some people don't want borderless and transparent buddy lists. Some people actually want *useful* features like remote access to your home computer IM client messages or "stay online even after [IM client] is quit".

nooon · Jun 25, 2004, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by jokell82:
(if you want Bloated, check out Proteus)

would you care to explain?

timmerk · Jun 25, 2004, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by cybergoober:
I had been looking for a multi-protocol chat client for a while. After testing many I just recently made the switch to Adium and I have had none of the problems you describe.

I don't even know why I bothered posting that since you'll just write it off as me being an "Adium zealot".

BTW - I think most don't like Proteus because it's not free as Adium is.

Actually, from your comment, no, I am not labeling you as a "Adium zealot". People can use it without being a zealot, but some people take it too far, as Horsepoo!!! knows. I'm glad Horsepoo!!! sees what I see.

Horsepoo!!! · Jun 25, 2004, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by nooon:
would you care to explain?

I think the guy is mistaking useful features to bloat.

Proteus used to be bloaty with ridiculous customization features when all people wanted was a working client. Proteus 4 trimmed down on the customization and now is incorporating the basic features that are needed.

There's so much FUD coming from the Adium crowd, it's actually quite funny.

Adium is a great app...but to label it as the end-all IM client is beyond my comprehension when Proteus does a plethora of things better than Adium.

cybergoober · Jun 25, 2004, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Do you also hate OmniWeb?

Nope. Don't hate Proteus either. I said I thought that some folks didn't like Proteus because it was not free, not that I didn't like it because it was not free.

Horsepoo!!! · Jun 25, 2004, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by cybergoober:
Nope. Don't hate Proteus either. I said I thought that some folks didn't like Proteus because it was not free, not that I didn't like it because it was not free.

Fair enough. You're probably right though...some folks don't like Proteus because it's not free. It's a shame really.

evands · Jun 25, 2004, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by timmerk:
I do fill out the bug reports, and I guarantee you, I'm not the only one. A know lots of people who complain about the exact same crashing bugs.

I know there would be Adium zealots around here, it's a shame they have to bring the thread off topic.

Sorry to hear you've had problems. Versions late in the 0.5x series did introduce some major problems with crashes. It happens; Adium doesn't claim to be a finalized product. 0.61 will be available today and solves, to the best of my knowlege, all recurring crashes of which we have been made aware with the exception of those related to AIM File Transfer and DirectIM (which is another can of worms entirely). Hopefully you'll give it another go and be pleasantly surprised.

Apologies for "bringing the thread off topic." To answer your question: Fire has a friendly team and a good program in many respects. There's also Proteus, which is, like Adium, libgaim-based; it is a commercial project, has many UI flaws, but is also well polished in some areas in which we are just beginning to explore due to its several years of maturity over Adium.

resImadA · Jun 25, 2004, 12:50 PM

Timmerk, what email are you using to report your crashes? I can confirm their cause / if they've been fixed in 0.61 for you.

timmerk · Jun 25, 2004, 12:55 PM

Thank you evands and Adam - I know you are the developers, and I appreciate it for not bashing my question. I tired Fire yesterday and it deleted my buddy list - even off AIM's servers, luckily, I had a backup. I like Proteus, but doesn't let me customize it enough.

So, for now, I am back to Adium, which is my favorite - I just hope the bugs will be ironed out soon. Also, I understand it's free and open source - I don't mean to bash you guys, I just was hoping for something more stable right now, which is why I asked for alternatives. I'm downloading the new Adium right now though! :-)

Horsepoo!!! · Jun 25, 2004, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by evands:
Sorry to hear you've had problems. Versions late in the 0.5x series did introduce some major problems with crashes. It happens; Adium doesn't claim to be a finalized product. 0.61 will be available today and solves, to the best of my knowlege, all recurring crashes of which we have been made aware with the exception of those related to AIM File Transfer and DirectIM (which is another can of worms entirely). Hopefully you'll give it another go and be pleasantly surprised.

Apologies for "bringing the thread off topic." To answer your question: Fire has a friendly team and a good program in many respects. There's also Proteus, which is, like Adium, libgaim-based; it is a commercial project, has many UI flaws, but is also well polished in some areas in which we are just beginning to explore due to its several years of maturity over Adium.

Can we get a list of this UI flaws? I'd really like to know what is considered a UI flaw in Proteus.

Not saying that there aren't any...I can list a few flaws myself.

evands · Jun 25, 2004, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Can we get a list of this UI flaws? I'd really like to know what is considered a UI flaw in Proteus.

Not saying that there aren't any...I can list a few flaws myself.

I'm sure our lists are similar.

I refuse to bash other programs; I try to maintain a policy of being willing to learn from others, and it's contrary to that policy to be overly negative towards their work. I believe there's a difference between saying there's a problem and enumerating it; the former is just an opinion, but the latter opens the floor for debate, and I'm anything but an impartial debater on this particular topic, as we're all aware.

gbooker · Jun 25, 2004, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by timmerk:
I tired Fire yesterday and it deleted my buddy list - even off AIM's servers, luckily, I had a backup.

OK, I would love to know how this happened, especially considering that we use the same library as Proteus and Adium for AIM. Could you please PM so that I could attempt to figure this out.

HashPipeK · Jun 25, 2004, 02:05 PM

I used Proteus for along time becuase I like having all my IM services in one App. once I heard Adium rolled in the LibGaim I tryed it out. it worked great. Some of the nightlies didn;t work so well, but uhh they're beta. I usually update now when a new version comes out. It's much faster than Proteus and the logging function is so much better.

aptenergy · Jun 25, 2004, 02:32 PM

I used Fire a long time ago, and I started to use Adium after that. A few days ago I downloaded Fire to try it out, and behold, it completely messed up my buddy list - it deleted about thirty members, moved other members around, created a "** Default Group **" group, and what's better, it stored these changes on the AIM server.

Fortunately I had a backup so this wasn't that big of a problem. What I think happened is that Fire caches the buddy list and when I used it, it must have restored my buddy list from a while ago.

Perhaps in the other case, Fire couldn't find a previous buddy list and so it just deleted all the buddies.

cramo · Jun 25, 2004, 07:42 PM

Have you tried Gush? It is rather cool-looking even though I did not manage to make it work with ICQ and iChat accounts.

dj forge · Jun 25, 2004, 08:09 PM

.59 used to crash on me every 5 minutes
.60 less often
.61 hasn't yet

Tick · Jun 25, 2004, 10:27 PM

Out of curiosity, what features in adium are bloaty to you?

gbooker · Jun 25, 2004, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by aptenergy:
What I think happened is that Fire caches the buddy list and when I used it, it must have restored my buddy list from a while ago.

Yes, this is what it did for moving the buddies around.

Originally posted by aptenergy:
Perhaps in the other case, Fire couldn't find a previous buddy list and so it just deleted all the buddies.

It does not delete buddies unless you delete them in the program itself. I am betting it was still in the process of updating the server list when you logged off and thus saved your buddy list in an unstable state (AOL's fault).

OchreKnight · Jun 26, 2004, 02:16 AM

Just like to throw my hat in the ring. I was a long time Proteus user and very active community member, but I also happen to be one of the minority users who never upgraded to X.3. With the version 4 update to Proteus, I was left out in the cold, which facilitated my switch to Adium.

At this point, if I were able to use both clients, I would say that I'd have to seriously consider which one to use. Adium has amazing customizability, and Proteus has smoothness inherent in its UI. However, in my experience with Proteus 3 and the most recent versions of Adium, the big thing that makes the difference for me (besides active development) is the CPU usage, which was significantly lower for me while using Adium.

maziu · Jun 28, 2004, 02:19 AM

As far as the multi-IM clients go, Adium probably is the best.

I think Proteus has the most practical features, but its RAM and CPU usage is completley ridiculous for an IM client. I don't think they intend to fix this issue, either, since it's a result of a design decision to seperate the GUI from the rest of the program. It's not so easy to just put it back together, or make the client-server architecture more efficient. But the client looks good and works well if you've got the CPU and RAM to spare.

Adium is not big on practical features. The buddy list only looks good if you spend all day customizing it to match your wallpaper because it only looks good in transparent mode. It's ugly otherwise. Some of us like having regular windows. Y'know, a consistent way of doing things throughout the OS, so I don't have to learn to apple-click to move some special window type around. There's no menu-extra either.

Both Proteus and Adium have those beautiful webkit message views, but, again, you have to have a commitment to customization to find one that looks good.

I think if you just use AIM, iChat is by far the best. It's pretty slim, it's got a great menu extra, the buddy list and chat windows look great (although I turn off the bubble chat), it can do A/V, and it can talk to ICQ Lite users.

I haven't tried Fire recently, but last I tried it, I thought it was just too ugly. Worked well, but needed a new buddy list and message style.

jokell82 · Jun 28, 2004, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by maziu:
I think Proteus has the most practical features, but its RAM and CPU usage is completley ridiculous for an IM client. I don't think they intend to fix this issue, either, since it's a result of a design decision to seperate the GUI from the rest of the program. It's not so easy to just put it back together, or make the client-server architecture more efficient. But the client looks good and works well if you've got the CPU and RAM to spare.

Actually, the reason the code is separated is so they can charge for it. They use libgaim, which is open source, and which you are not allowed to pay for. Therefor they split the app, make the gui closed source, and you pay for that.

maziu · Jun 28, 2004, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by jokell82:
Actually, the reason the code is separated is so they can charge for it. They use libgaim, which is open source, and which you are not allowed to pay for. Therefor they split the app, make the gui closed source, and you pay for that.

right, I know. That's the reason for the design decision. I still don't think it's worked out too well because it definitely uses a lot more RAM and CPU than does Adium. iChat uses a lot less than both of them, but it only has AIM.

jokell82 · Jun 28, 2004, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by maziu:
right, I know. That's the reason for the design decision. I still don't think it's worked out too well because it definitely uses a lot more RAM and CPU than does Adium. iChat uses a lot less than both of them, but it only has AIM.

iChat uses less? How can iChat use less when Adium sits at 0% CPU when it's idle?