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Law School
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NittanyToto
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Jul 27, 2004, 10:54 PM
 
I am starting law school in a few weeks and was just wondering if anyone else out there uses their powerbook for law school? I imagine I will definetly be in the minority when I pull out my 12' pb the first day!
     
diskgolfking
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Jul 27, 2004, 11:09 PM
 
Me too. I just bought a Rev C 12" PB for law school. Where are you going? I begin at Northwestern in just under a month.
     
NittanyToto  (op)
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Jul 27, 2004, 11:16 PM
 
I will be attending the University of Kansas, orientation is august 16th. I can't believe its almost here. What program are you going to use to take notes? This is my first mac so I just purchased MS Office with my PB since I am used to the interface, etc.
     
azdude
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Jul 28, 2004, 12:10 AM
 
Originally posted by NittanyToto:
I will be attending the University of Kansas, orientation is august 16th. I can't believe its almost here. What program are you going to use to take notes? This is my first mac so I just purchased MS Office with my PB since I am used to the interface, etc.
The newest MS Office (2004) has a new note-taking feature built into Word. The pages look like notes (whoopdy doo), they're tabbed (nice), easy scribbling on the notes (nice) and the ability to record an audio track while you're typing (super nice!!). Although, for the audio, the built in mic is a bad choice in my experience... all i could hear was myself typing. Perhaps with an external mic it'd be awesome.
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t4r1q
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Jul 28, 2004, 01:56 AM
 
neato! is that notebook feature word mac specific or is it available in pc version as well?
     
escher
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Jul 28, 2004, 07:57 PM
 
Originally posted by NittanyToto:
I am starting law school in a few weeks and was just wondering if anyone else out there uses their powerbook for law school? I imagine I will definetly be in the minority when I pull out my 12' pb the first day!
You'll be in the minority, yes. But not alone. I got my J.D. this May, after four long years in law school (went part time in the evening). First year, I used my PowerBook 2400c, and everybody just drooled over its small size. All other laptops were giant heavy cheapo Wintel monsters.

At the end of the first year, I upgraded to an iBook (Dual USB), which served me well through graduation. That same year (in fall of 2001), Apple laptops started popping up all over the place. There were several new students with TiBooks and iBooks. This spring, there was even a girl with a 17-inch PowerBook in one of my classes.

This June, before my educational discount expired, I upgraded to the Rev.C 12-inch PowerBook. Sure wish I had been able to afford one earlier... Anyway, both of Apple's 12" notebooks are perfect for law school, especially now that Lexis and Westlaw are Web-based anyway. The only limitation I ever faced was that my school used ExamSoft for typewritten exams, which is Windows only. But I preferred to handwrite my exams anyway.

BTW: Make sure your first year grades are way up there. If they are not, yo will regret it later.

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
     
azdude
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Jul 29, 2004, 12:05 AM
 
Originally posted by t4r1q:
neato! is that notebook feature word mac specific or is it available in pc version as well?
Mac only.
17" 2.33GHz C2D MacBook Pro / 320GB / 2GB
     
t4r1q
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Jul 29, 2004, 12:58 AM
 
Originally posted by t4r1q:
neato! is that notebook feature word mac specific or is it available in pc version as well?
oops forgot i had office 2003 pro...couldnt find said feature in it. unless it is in the student-teacher version, just one more feature that makes having a mac so great

edit: oops again, azdude beat me to it
     
NittanyToto  (op)
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Jul 29, 2004, 07:58 AM
 
Thanks for all the great advice! Glad to hear my mac is a great choice for law school.

The note feature in word does sound similar to the One Note program that comes with certain versions of windows Office. They don't seem to be exactly the same, but kind of close.
     
olePigeon
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Jul 29, 2004, 01:44 PM
 
The only problem is when you take your tests. They use some special testing software that only works with Windows, and isn't allowed via VPC.

Just a warning that you may have to buy a $200 PC just for taking tests.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
kafoochy
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Jul 29, 2004, 02:34 PM
 
Congrats on law school as well as the PB! I'm an undergrad at Boston College, but lived on the law campus my freshmen year and worked in their AV department. You'd be surprised of the percentage of Mac users in law. BC Law has a higher percentage of Mac users than BC from what I've seen. BC also uses ExamSoft, so unfortunately Mac users have to hand write their exams, but beyond that there are nothing but positives! Enjoy! All of BC's law campus as well as main have been wireless for a few years now and you'll occasionally see a student outside on a nice day checking their email with their PB. Hopefully you'll be able to take advantage of your AirPort Extreme.
     
NittanyToto  (op)
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Jul 29, 2004, 06:11 PM
 
Well after reading about taking tests by hand I decided to check out my school's web site. They say that they provide minimal support for non windows systems and then it says this about networking:

Once you have an Ethernet card, you will need to have your computer configured for use at the Law Student Network. This involves installing and configuring network client software. The process will take about 10 or 15 minutes. We will install a client for Novell IntranetWare, and configure your Internet Access while at the Law School

Will this be a problem on my PB? Sorry if this is a stupid question. Thanks for any help.
     
zengravy
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Jul 31, 2004, 12:11 PM
 
I used a PowerBook all through law school and have been a Mac user for about 13 years. Additionally, I've used nothing but Macs running OS X in my small firm IP, technology, entertainment, and business practice in Austin, TX for the past three years.

Although PCs were definitely in the majority at UT Austin, there were quite a few people with Macs. I personally didn't have any problems whatsoever, principally because I could support my own machine. When the IT folks told me somethign wouldn't work with the Mac, I would always just grin and then go fix it myself in about five minutes.

One thing I can recommend is OmniGroup's OmniOutliner. If you don't want to spend the bucks on Office, Outliner is just fabulous for taking notes in class. I find it much more intuitive and easier to use than Word 2004's notebook view. It also stomps Word into the ground on features.

Lexis and Westlaw are easily accessed via the web using either Safari or Firefox. I did have some trouble with Westlaw crashing Safari on a regular basis a few months ago, but that seems to have been remedied now. Regardless, with the huge number of quality browsers for OS X (Safari, OmniWeb 5, Firefox, Camino, Mozilla), you shouldn't have any problems at all with any web based service.

As for testing, UT Austin is one of the schools that only supported a PC version of the testing software and didn't allow use of Virtual PC. The reason is that the software locks down the PC and won't allow access to any files, folders, or applications (notes, outlines, etc.). Virtual PC allows you to overcome that hurdle by just switching back to the Mac side of things. It was kind of a drag, but I just lumped it and took the handwritten version of the test. Call me crazy, but it actually kept me more focused. Typing tends to let you jabber away and drift away from the issue. Outlining and writing by hand forces you to keep it lean.

I've never worked with Novell networking and, somehow or another, I'm sure that's a good thing I would imagine that OS X is more than capable of connecting to such a network and that it would just take time to figure out how. Also, unless your school is offering resources on that Novell network that you can't get elsewhere, you may not need to worry about it. If they have ethernet TCP/IP hookups for Internet access, that will get you out to the Net.

You may also want to check into wireless at your school. UT Austin offered a hotspot in two or three areas my last year there. It's significantly easier to just walk up, put down your things, and fire up a browser. I remember PC folk having all sorts of difficulties using their laptops with the wireless network. My Mac worked just fine!

zen
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you cannot enter a place that you never left.
     
diskgolfking
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Jul 31, 2004, 07:03 PM
 
Sounds like you folks need to go to a school with open-book exams. That way you wont have to use special software for exams because there's no point in locking down the system.

I am still deciding between Outliner and Word (I have both v.X and 2004) for taking notes. But I have a few weeks to play with it (I don't move for a few more weeks).
     
NittanyToto  (op)
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Jul 31, 2004, 08:48 PM
 
Yeah thanks for the advice about outliner. I am going to play with them both and see which one I like better. It's also nice to hear stories about other mac users and law school!!!
     
mishakim
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Jul 31, 2004, 09:45 PM
 
Originally posted by diskgolfking:
Sounds like you folks need to go to a school with open-book exams. That way you wont have to use special software for exams because there's no point in locking down the system.
Unfortunately, even for open-book exams it's preferable to use their software - at least at BC Law, by using Examsoft you can download / upload the exam via the 'net from anywhere at any time. Otherwise, you have to pick up a hard copy during a narrow time window, print your answers, and turn in a hard copy again during a narrow time window. Examsoft isn't locked-down during open book, but of course it's still on a PC.

Most of the Mac users I know at BC got cheap used PC laptops for exams.

For notes, I used OmniOutliner, but it's fairly limited. I'd like to be able, at least, to insert tables, or have multiple columns only on certain rows. I've used OpenOffice.org for all my papers and stuff, though it has issues with cases saved from Westlaw.

zengravy - how do you get Safari to use Westlaw? Whenever I try to log in (lawschool or regular site), it just reloads the login page. Is there some setting you have to change?
     
HasanDaddy
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Jul 31, 2004, 10:01 PM
 
I know plenty of Law Students with Macs!

They all happen to be the smartest ones, too
"Government is not the solution, its the problem" --- Ronald Reagan
     
diskgolfking
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Jul 31, 2004, 11:45 PM
 
I could login to westlaw (well, a friend using my computer for her law school research could). Unfortunately when bringing up the cases in the new window (or was it the frameset?) it just seems to hang. Camino worked great though.
     
zengravy
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Aug 2, 2004, 01:19 AM
 
Hmm... Well, I just use Safari as-is and it seems to work for me. I do get the spinning beach ball about once a month or so. Quitting, deleting the Safari folder in ~/Library/Caches seems to cure it for yet another month

Sometimes I use Firefox, mosly for a week or so after that monthly hang in Safari It doesn't usually bother me, especialyl since Westlaw has such great research trail tracking.

I've found that OmniWeb 5rc2 does a very, very nice job with Westlaw. It's faster than Safari and has never crashed on me!
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rjc3
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Aug 3, 2004, 07:10 PM
 
I graduated in May 2003 from the University of Wisconsin School of Law. I used a Powerbook (400 pismo) throughout law school and had absolutely no regrets. Its ease of networking (both wired and wireless) made it a much better choice in my opinion, as I was easily able to transition between wireless access at my home, wired access in the library, and wireless access around campus. My windows friends basically got their laptops set up to work with only one of those (usually wired access in library) configs and stuck with it the entire three years.

UW's IT department tried to steer me away from buying an apple, claiming that it might be difficult to integrate onto the network. These folks apparently did not know much about OS X's robust networking capabilities, as I had fewer problems than virtually all of my friends did with their PCs. Actually, no fewer than six of my friends at law school ended up replacing their dells with 12"iBooks by the end of law school, and they were all extremely happy with their upgrades.

I am familliar with the windows only testing software in use at some schools. AFAIK, there is no way around this - you will not be able to take the electronic test on your apple laptop. As you will (likely) only have one exam per class per semester, this really isn't that big of a problem. You don't HAVE to take the exam on a laptop and can always handwrite. A better solution would be simply to rent or borrow a windows laptop for a few hours on exam day. My state's bar association recently began administering the bar using the same electronic, windows-only testing software, so I just borrowed a friend's dell laptop for the exam. You could most likely rent a laptop from your school's IT department for cheap as well.

Factor in the longer battery life of most apple laptops ( I was often the only person in class whose laptop was not continuously plugged in, and the windows people would ooh and ahh over my ability to actually run my computer off the battery), the cleaner OS, and small size (you will be carrying more books than you can imagine the first year - you want a light and portable portable, not some 8lb clunker), and it should be a no-brainer.

In short, get the Apple. You will not regret it.

Good luck in your first year.
     
sworthy
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Aug 3, 2004, 09:05 PM
 
would virtual pc let me use the test software?
     
azdude
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Aug 3, 2004, 10:41 PM
 
Originally posted by sworthy:
would virtual pc let me use the test software?
No personal experience, but from what I've read here... no. VPC is blocked because the software's primary purpose is to block access to other programs (notes, internet), and having a computer-within-a-computer would defeat that protection since you would be able to access notes/internet from the mac side.
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bstone
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Aug 4, 2004, 04:08 AM
 
check out darwine.sourceforge.net . This might be the savior for just this sort of situation.
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mishakim
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Aug 4, 2004, 07:05 PM
 
Originally posted by bstone:
check out darwine.sourceforge.net . This might be the savior for just this sort of situation.
That's an interesting idea. For now, of course, it's not an option, because the software would have to be recompiled. Qemu seems to be coming along nicely though. I couldn't get NT installed on it, so I gave up for now, but other people reported success with other flavors of Windows. Once either Qemu is robust enough or it and Darwine are integrated, it may be possible. The trick will be making sure Examsoft doesn't know it's running in emulation.

To elaborate on how the software works, for those brainstorming ways around it: after you load the test file, it reboots Windows, and when you login, it doesn't load Explorer or Start menu, just Examsoft. With no other access to the shell, you can't load any other apps or files. If you got it to run in emulation, it would reboot the emulator in the same way, but of course OS X would still be running behind it, defeating the point. If the school's concern is security, not simply letting you use a computer, they won't care that you can run it, they'll still not let you.
     
rjc3
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Aug 5, 2004, 02:57 PM
 
Originally posted by bstone:
check out darwine.sourceforge.net . This might be the savior for just this sort of situation.

Emulation was NOT an option at my law school, as it defeats the security of the system by allowing access to contents of HD/internet access, etc.

AFAIK, no one allows Examsoft to be emulated on Mac. THe simple reason is that an emulated examsoft wouldn't lock down the rest of the system, defeating the very purpose of having the software installed. Stated plainly, if the school is willing to trust that you won't peek into the rest of your computer, then there is really no reason to use examsoft in the first place.
     
   
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