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MaxPower2k3 · Apr 15, 2006, 12:48 AM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8&page=1&pp=30

Well, the first people have started buying toshiba HD-DVD players at Best Buy, 4 days before their intended release. I didn't realize they were supposed to come out this soon... Though there's only about 4 titles out so far.

Blu-Ray is out in May, right? so how many titles will that have by then, compared to HD-DVD?

mduell · Apr 15, 2006, 01:04 AM

A handful, and none of them are great cinema.

Landos Mustache · Apr 15, 2006, 01:15 AM

"The fan is a bit noisy"

Great.

Teronzhul · Apr 15, 2006, 01:18 AM

I'm just amazed at how large the initial production units are. I know its a bit more technologically stressful to push 6x the pixels, but does it really require hardware that takes 6x the space? Even the upconverting dvd players that do gobs of image processing are tiny in comparison to that behemoth.

Of course, I needn't complain as I don't have the money for one anyway. I'm one of those individuals who also wants to wait and see which format comes out on top. I'd really like them both to fail, but I know that won't happen. Currently rooting for HDDVD.

meelk · Apr 15, 2006, 01:27 AM

rooting for HD-dvd as well. screw sony.

Landos Mustache · Apr 15, 2006, 01:50 AM

2 years from now it will be a in a museum.

Ilgaz · Apr 15, 2006, 05:51 AM

I had -1 flamebait on Slashdot for saying this but I bet everyone will understand what I mean here.

Whatever camp (HD,Blu) ships the first Mac compatible (with drivers,firewire etc) drive, that will win.

Eug Wanker · Apr 15, 2006, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Ilgaz

I had -1 flamebait on Slashdot for saying this but I bet everyone will understand what I mean here.

Whatever camp (HD,Blu) ships the first Mac compatible (with drivers,firewire etc) drive, that will win.

You mean like DVD-RAM?

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

2 years from now it will be a in a museum.

I doubt it, even though Blu-ray does seem to have the advantage.

Ilgaz · Apr 15, 2006, 08:47 AM

Yes, the first batch of "desktop compatible" Blu Ray/HD dvd drives. readers or writers.

stevesnj · Apr 15, 2006, 09:00 AM

$500 !?!?!?! screw that, I'll wait a year for the bugs to be fixed and it will be half that price...$500 ...lol... dummies

Ilgaz · Apr 15, 2006, 09:31 AM

I know a HDTV 2K/4K capable studio is testing BluRay for months now or perhaps using it for lossless (10 bit 4:4:4) backup.

Not very sure, their HDTV department is always locked up (big movie contracts etc)

Also as no windows trolls here, I say go with whatever Apple Inc. goes with. Their word is counted in entertaintment industry, not others. It became pathetic attempt even for Microsoft still pushing AVI which no professionals take serious.

Apple says "Blu Ray" yes?

MaxPower2k3 · Apr 15, 2006, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Ilgaz

I know a HDTV 2K/4K capable studio is testing BluRay for months now or perhaps using it for lossless (10 bit 4:4:4) backup.

Not very sure, their HDTV department is always locked up (big movie contracts etc)

Also as no windows trolls here, I say go with whatever Apple Inc. goes with. Their word is counted in entertaintment industry, not others. It became pathetic attempt even for Microsoft still pushing AVI which no professionals take serious.

Apple says "Blu Ray" yes?

Blu-Ray is a consumer format. XDCAM is Sony's professional blue laser format, but it's not for storage or backup, it's for HD field recording, and it's not uncompressed. A 50GB dual-layer Blu-Ray disc could only hold about 4 minutes and 45 seconds of uncompressed HD.

Ilgaz · Apr 15, 2006, 09:50 AM

They may be using for SDI (PAL) backup. Again, I said I am not sure. That is some "top secret" area

Eug Wanker · Apr 15, 2006, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Ilgaz

Yes, the first batch of "desktop compatible" Blu Ray/HD dvd drives. readers or writers.

I guess your sarcasm detector isn't working then.

starman · Apr 15, 2006, 10:59 AM

*gasp*

/runs to BB

starman · Apr 15, 2006, 11:30 AM

Damn....they don't have them in yet.

hickey · Apr 15, 2006, 11:37 AM

wasnt it about a year ago that people were upset there werent Blu-Ray drives in the new powermacs? And now they're just coming out.

Helmling · Apr 15, 2006, 11:51 AM

Frankly, which one Apple picks isn't going to make much difference in terms of wide-spread acceptance. Apple is obviously already deep in the Blu-Ray camp. What matters is that Sony will put Blu-Ray in the Playstation 3, and by doing so guarantees Blu-Ray an installed base.

That's why Blu-Ray has already won.

starman · Apr 15, 2006, 01:19 PM

Got one.

I have to get an HDMI->DVI adapter to get HD since the unit won't allow HD from component (stupid copy protection).

Cadaver · Apr 15, 2006, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Got one.

I have to get an HDMI->DVI adapter to get HD since the unit won't allow HD from component (stupid copy protection).

This is why I'm in no rush. While I have two TVs that support HDCP, I'm just pissed that there's no hi-def signal from the component outputs.
F

ers (MPAA).

Teronzhul · Apr 15, 2006, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Got one.

I have to get an HDMI->DVI adapter to get HD since the unit won't allow HD from component (stupid copy protection).

After reading much of that thread it appears that the unit will output only 480p for SD-DVDs over component while offering upconversion with the digital connection.

However, it appears that it will allow 1080i output over component for actual HD-DVDs unless the distributor turns on the ICT flag.

Post #128

Darin is very much correct. DVD and HD DVD rules are VERY different. Here are a two differences that are the opposite of what some folks think (that new formats are more restrictive):

1. HD DVD currently does not have region coding. So you can play Japanese titles on your US player and vice versa for example (as I have done). Region coding however, is enfored on DVD discs however.

2. HD DVD allows at least one mandatory recording/copying/moving of the content from the disc to another. Currently DVDs are not authorized for any form of copying/moving. And no, Toshiba doesn't support this since it has no place to put the copy. You would need a home server or a PC to make such recordings.

And clarifying yet again, the rules for upsampling DVDs is that non-computer devices are not allowed to output more than 480p on their analog connections. Instead, you must use a digital, copy protected output such as HDMI or DVI+HDCP. This has nothing to do with ICT flag which does not exist on DVDs anyway. Unlike ICT, no studio has a choice. It is a licensing thing for the player itself.

ALL the HD DVD titles I have played output at full resolution at 1080i with component on my Japanese player. I am 99.9999% sure that the same of the US model. So please don't get concerned unless you hear otherwise.

Amir

TailsToo · Apr 15, 2006, 03:59 PM

As long as their is such draconian copy protection in these products, I won't buy one. I'm not going to accept a half-baked product because these companies want to treat everyone like criminals. If they make a good product, then I believe that people will support it.

Ilgaz · Apr 15, 2006, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Helmling

Frankly, which one Apple picks isn't going to make much difference in terms of wide-spread acceptance. Apple is obviously already deep in the Blu-Ray camp. What matters is that Sony will put Blu-Ray in the Playstation 3, and by doing so guarantees Blu-Ray an installed base.

That's why Blu-Ray has already won.

Sony and Apple are responsible about 90% what you see and hear, any professional album, movie and especially TV.

So what they pick is 90% relevant. See what happened to D-VHS

meelk · Apr 15, 2006, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Helmling

Frankly, which one Apple picks isn't going to make much difference in terms of wide-spread acceptance. Apple is obviously already deep in the Blu-Ray camp. What matters is that Sony will put Blu-Ray in the Playstation 3, and by doing so guarantees Blu-Ray an installed base.

That's why Blu-Ray has already won.

just like sony put umd drives in the psp right?
lolol

meelk · Apr 15, 2006, 06:49 PM

btw,
the image contstraint token is currently dead in the water. Sony, Disney, and Warner are all holding off on its use for at least several years.

MaxPower2k3 · Apr 16, 2006, 11:41 AM

Well, it seems like response to the picture quality on these is generally pretty positive, though there's definitely some first-generation bugs... sluggish menus, occasional lockups, audio problems. Hopefully a firmware update well help for some of the early adopters, but it does seem like a good idea to hold out until the next round of players.

Also, these players have a standard 1GB DDR333 SO-DIMM inside (photo)... I wonder how much they share with a PC inside? There's also an Intel memory controller on the logic board.

Eug Wanker · Apr 16, 2006, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Ilgaz

Sony and Apple are responsible about 90% what you see and hear, any professional album, movie and especially TV.

Not even close.

See what happened to D-VHS

? D-VHS isn't even remotely compareable to Blu-ray.

Originally Posted by TailsToo

As long as their is such draconian copy protection in these products, I won't buy one. I'm not going to accept a half-baked product because these companies want to treat everyone like criminals. If they make a good product, then I believe that people will support it.

So, you don't own a DVD player then?

Velocity211 · Apr 17, 2006, 04:03 PM

I personally like Blu-ray better than HD-DVD because it has more storage. But It's probably a lot more expensive. Also, is Apple supporting Blu-Ray?

mduell · Apr 17, 2006, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Teronzhul

I'm just amazed at how large the initial production units are. I know its a bit more technologically stressful to push 6x the pixels, but does it really require hardware that takes 6x the space? Even the upconverting dvd players that do gobs of image processing are tiny in comparison to that behemoth.

It's mostly empty space.

MaxPower2k3 · Apr 17, 2006, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Velocity211

I personally like Blu-ray better than HD-DVD because it has more storage. But It's probably a lot more expensive. Also, is Apple supporting Blu-Ray?

I thought they officially came out in support of Blu-Ray, but DVD Studio Pro 4 already supports HD-DVD, with no mention of Blu-Ray. So I'm not sure which they'll end up going with.

Dark Helmet · Apr 17, 2006, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Velocity211

I personally like Blu-ray better than HD-DVD because it has more storage. But It's probably a lot more expensive. Also, is Apple supporting Blu-Ray?

Keep in mind the PS3 will have a blu-ray drive built in and it will sell for a loss.

TailsToo · Apr 17, 2006, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

So, you don't own a DVD player then?

I own a Mac that can play DVDs.

starman · Apr 18, 2006, 10:40 AM

The movies finally came in today. I'll spin them later.

driven · Apr 18, 2006, 12:02 PM

A few adult film companies are now filming in HD and offering their wares in HD-DVD.

(Not that I'd know about such things.)

Dark Helmet · 12:19 PM

Here is one of the early reviews:
http://dvd.themanroom.com/dvd-newsview.php?id=0058

"On the downside it takes a good minute for the player to boot up into either a movie or the splash screen"

Nice.

starman · Apr 18, 2006, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Here is one of the early reviews:
http://dvd.themanroom.com/dvd-newsview.php?id=0058

"On the downside it takes a good minute for the player to boot up into either a movie or the splash screen"

Nice.

Reading comprehension problems again?

Since the official debut of HD-DVD is Tuesday, May 18, I was unable to score one of the four actual HD-DVD launch titles to test out (see below for links to details on those titles).

He doesn't have any HD movies to test it with yet.

(he mistyped April as May).

EDIT: Someone put their reading glasses on and fixed their post. Well, here's what you said originally:

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Either the players or the discs are crap because HDTV is MUCH MUCH better than upconverted 480p

Dark Helmet · Apr 18, 2006, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Reading comprehension problems again?

He doesn't have any HD movies to test it with yet.

(he mistyped April as May).

As you can see I CLEARLY edited my post BEFORE you replied. The site that linked to the review was the one who made the mistake and I also caught it after and corrected it. Actually I fixed it 7 minutes before you posted so it is quite baffling how you could have taken that long to write such a short reply

So anything productive you would like to contribute?

starman · Apr 18, 2006, 12:30 PM

Actually, you edited your post before I FINISHED replying.

Sorry...

Dark Helmet · Apr 18, 2006, 12:35 PM

Engadget is the one who made the mistake:

"However, since the discs he picked up weren't hampered by the Image Constraint Token, he was able to get full 720p and 1080i output. That said, the reviewer still found the output only "a hair sharper" than that he got from upsampled 480p DVDs using a Momitsu upconverting player. So, is that "hair" worth $500? If you've been waiting for the chance to watch, er, "The Last Samurai" in true HD, you already know the answer."

http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/18/t...-on-treatment/

sabrejim · Apr 18, 2006, 12:42 PM

HD DVD is going to win. The cases come in red and blu ray comes in blue. Red is the nicer color so they will get bought easier. And the players are cheaper and out now. DUH! And we have confirmation that you can burn HD DVD to regular dvd-r's so home video people can make them too. Rock on!

Dark Helmet · Apr 18, 2006, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by kaze0

HD DVD is going to win. The cases come in red and blu ray comes in blue. Red is the nicer color so they will get bought easier. And the players are cheaper and out now. DUH! And we have confirmation that you can burn HD DVD to regular dvd-r's so home video people can make them too. Rock on!

All kidding aside there are already complains about the HD-DVD cases. they are beveled on one side so you can't fit them neatly on a DVD shelf or stack them properly.

starman · Apr 18, 2006, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

All kidding aside there are already complains about the HD-DVD cases. they are beveled on one side so you can't fit them neatly on a DVD shelf or stack them properly.

lie

goMac · Apr 18, 2006, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Engadget is the one who made the mistake:

"However, since the discs he picked up weren't hampered by the Image Constraint Token, he was able to get full 720p and 1080i output. That said, the reviewer still found the output only "a hair sharper" than that he got from upsampled 480p DVDs using a Momitsu upconverting player. So, is that "hair" worth $500? If you've been waiting for the chance to watch, er, "The Last Samurai" in true HD, you already know the answer."

http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/18/t...-on-treatment/

"Also note he didn't actually view any HD-DVDs, only tested the upsampling of the unit to compare it to his Momitsu upconverting player. Of course it should really only look a 'tad sharper', both are upconverting 480 lines.

It's not a test of HD-DVD at all so far."

Dark Helmet · Apr 18, 2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by starman

lie

Truth:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28907
" Oh yeah, not only are your shelves worthless, but you can't even pile them up straight. Lets hear it for brain-dead design"

"Better throw away those shelves you bought for $5 at IKEA, fool, because HD-DVD will not fit into standard DVD slots. The red casing has a weird red strip at the top which doesn’t allow them to pile up nicely at all, let alone stack them or sort them. "
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ente...uck-147912.php

But thanks, your pics proved what they were saying nicely.

Dark Helmet · Apr 18, 2006, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

"Also note he didn't actually view any HD-DVDs, only tested the upsampling of the unit to compare it to his Momitsu upconverting player. Of course it should really only look a 'tad sharper', both are upconverting 480 lines.

It's not a test of HD-DVD at all so far."

Uh ya, I think we covered that one already.

Engadget also made another mistake, they said he is not getting the best image quality because of the HDMI - DVI converter he is using. In reality it makes no difference.

starman · Apr 18, 2006, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Truth:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28907
" Oh yeah, not only are your shelves worthless, but you can't even pile them up straight. Lets hear it for brain-dead design"

"Better throw away those shelves you bought for $5 at IKEA, fool, because HD-DVD will not fit into standard DVD slots. The red casing has a weird red strip at the top which doesn’t allow them to pile up nicely at all, let alone stack them or sort them. "
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ente...uck-147912.php

But thanks, your pics proved what they were saying nicely.

Apparently the morons who wrote those articles are about as brain dead as a chimpanzee.

I suppose they neglected to mention the feet on the bottom of the HD-DVD cases.

Just goes to show that you can't believe everything you read.

Try something a tad more respectable next time.

Todd Madson · Apr 18, 2006, 01:30 PM

Serenity would be interesting but I'm not interested in buying into a system with
lots and lots of DRM in it.

Another issue, completely separate is the only HD capable machine in my house
is my Mac but we'll ignore that for now.

Dark Helmet · Apr 18, 2006, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Try something a tad more respectable next time.

Like? I have a feeling no matter who I mention you will disagree.

starman · Apr 18, 2006, 01:34 PM

Disagree? They're flat-out WRONG!

It's possible they were using beta cases. The Matrix isn't even out yet. Did you give that a thought?

And how does bevelling impede the ability to sort them? THese morons can't do ABC order because of a bevel?

Dark Helmet · Apr 18, 2006, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Disagree? They're flat-out WRONG!

It's possible they were using beta cases. The Matrix isn't even out yet. Did you give that a thought?

And how does bevelling impede the ability to sort them? THese morons can't do ABC order because of a bevel?

You didn't answer my question, what source is reliable because I saw this mentioned on several sites.

It is also very possible that the cases got a revision after the initial showing and media backlash so don't be so eager to prove someone wrong.