[MacinTommy]

http://news.com.com/2061-10805_3-611...7636&subj=news

[paul w]

we could? how much less? because for me it's not that much.

[The Godfather]

Apparently, I couldn't care less about your BAD grammar.

[zerostar]

pwned! haha

[ajprice]

Attention Windows users: We couldn't care less!

FIXINATED!!!

[Landos Mustache]

Wait a sec I don't get it.

If Zune doesn't work on a Mac then why do Windows users need to be alerted to this? They need to know that Zune will run on their PC and not a Mac they don't have?

On top of that if Mac users "could care less" then why did you post this topic?

[The Godfather]

Windows users are our mothers, fathers, siblings and significant others. Why should I storm into them and make a cocky statement like this?

[Dakar]

This thread hurts my soul.

Well, it would if I had one.

[Gossamer]

From the comments:

once you go brown, you'll never go black.
Reader post by: Sparky672
Posted on: September 20, 2006, 9:31 AM PDT
Story: Attention Mac users: All your Zune are belong to Windows
I'm selling my black aluminum iPod because too many girls are
coming up to me wanting to touch it... icky.

I'm getting a brown plastic Zune instead. It'll match my shiny
shoes and pocket protector much better. And for sure no more
freaky chicks flirtin' with me.

[mitchell_pgh]

I actually think the "Attention Mac users: All your Zune are belong to Windows" highlights just how well the Zune will be received. The geeks will love it... but nobody is going to buy it.

Most users don't understand WiFi... in fact, they may NOT purchase a Zune because of it (I can see buyers eyes glazing over about 15 seconds when attempting to explain the WiFi option). Also, the "share three times in three days before purchase" sounds like a scam from non-tech people. [I would be outraged if the same was true for iTunes music sharing over the network]

Also, the iPod has a range of products from the $79 shuffle to the $349.00 80GB iPod. I don't see one product displacing the entire iPod line.

I'm also guessing that we will see a iPod with a larger screen in the coming months. The $349.00 price tag isn't anywhere near as expensive as some of the older top of the line iPods.

My final highlight is the Zune PlayForSure debacle. Trying to explain this is also a nightmare. "Wait, so my Microsoft music won't play on my Microsoft player?"

Q: When PlaysForSure was introduced, the premise was, we make it simple so that you don't have to worry about whether your player works with the music you're purchasing...

A: That continues to be the premise for devices that are branded in that category, and we think that we've clearly done a lot in that program, where there's a lot of devices out there, there are a lot of services out there, there are a lot of partners, and there are a lot of satisfied customers. We like that program. We've also found that there's a category of customers that say, "Give me a brand experience, advertise it to me on television; I want to be part of the digital music revolution, and that solution [PlaysForSure] doesn't work for me." So they're two complementary solutions -- not everyones gonna want Zune and not everyone's gonna want PlaysForSure. They're different paths there, and we're okay with both of them.

[volcano]

I'm loving some of the responses to this article:

Awesome, so Macs will still be virus and trojan free!
I was getting worried for a second. Just one, mind you.

Oh, the humanity.
I can only imagine the indifference we can expect to see from the Mac community.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

Apparently, I couldn't care less about your BAD grammar.

Uh oh. 'I could care less' is a perfectly valid expression.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Uh oh. 'I could care less' is a perfectly valid expression.

Yeah, I guess so, but this sums it up nicely (from the link above):

"So it’s actually a very interesting linguistic development. But it is still regarded as slangy, and also has some social class stigma attached. And because it is hard to be sarcastic in writing, it loses its force when put on paper and just ends up looking stupid. In such cases, the older form, while still rather colloquial, at least will communicate your meaning—at least to those who really could care less."

[besson3c]

Wrong use of grammar. It's "I couldn't care less".

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Wrong use of grammar. It's "I couldn't care less".

You're hilarious*

*Note the use of deep sarcasm.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Wrong use of grammar. It's "I couldn't care less".

Google it. It started out as a deliberate mistake but has now entered mainstream English. It's fine to use.

How did "I could not care less" come to be replaced by "I could care less"--a virtually meaningless statement?
The phrase I could care less has been repeatedly condemned in recent years for its illogic: if you could care less, surely that means that you do care to an extent. But it's not meant to be taken literally. I could care less is sarcastic. When it is spoken, the stress is "I could CARE LESS," not the way one would stress a serious declaration. It's the same as saying "I really give a damn," when you don't, or "Nice move!" when someone makes a clumsy mistake--yes, they mean the opposite of what they say, but they're deliberate. The sarcasm allows you to express more disdain than simply saying "I couldn't care less." In addition, the phrase, with "couldn't" or with "could," is expressing indifference, so a strict interpretation is even less justified.

The expression I couldn't care less became common in England in World War Two and was apparently based on an earlier catchphrase "I couldn't agree with you more." The "could" variant is first found in the mid-1960s and was being objected to by the 1970s.

[itai195]

I can't tell if I could care less or not, my capacity to not care is nearly limitless.

Anyway... wow, this is a huge surprise, given that windows media player is no longer even supported on the Mac... And when support was dropped, there was already a massive outpouring of not caring from the Mac community.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Uh oh. 'I could care less' is a perfectly valid expression.

"But it is still regarded as slangy, and also has some social class stigma attached. And because it is hard to be sarcastic in writing, it loses its force when put on paper and just ends up looking stupid."

[Dakar]

So basically, it's "ain't"

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

"But it is still regarded as slangy, and also has some social class stigma attached. "

It's a good thing we don't use any colloquialisms (sp?) on the board...

[ghporter]

Not caring about Zune here... Not at all. Is there a point to it? More MS hardware that's sort of ok in concept but...

Anyway, who gives a rat's skinny naked tail about the Zune? And why? I'm sitting here listening to my 60G iPod Photo at the moment, and just wondering why anyone should be concerned about whether yet another iPod competitor works with Macs or not.

[Big Mac]

It's a corrupted form of the phrase, and people should be deriding its usage.

[Kerrigan]

haha i know colloquialism is teh suck, stoopid

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

It's a corrupted form of the phrase, and people should be deriding its usage.

Because language in the US is somehow evolving rather than devolving?

Radical! (Rad!)
Cool!
That's Hot!
Sick!

These are all instances of improper use of words. The first I find a bit old, the middle two are current, and the last (which I abhor) is recent. Should we be deriding all of these as well?

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by SirCastor

Because language in the US is somehow evolving rather than devolving?

Radical! (Rad!)
Cool!
That's Hot!
Sick!

These are all instances of improper use of words. The first I find a bit old, the middle two are current, and the last (which I abhor) is recent. Should we be deriding all of these as well?

Not like we should deride "could care less." Those are just common utterances, and while their usage should be minimized, they're not as harmful to the language as that corrupted phrase.

[SirCastor]

Used in everyday language, with poor ennunciation (as IMO most people have) it'll probably be taken as "I couldn't care less." and essentially has the same meaning to the audience "It's not important to me".

I'm just arguing now though

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Attention Mac Users: CNET and other sites love baiting you for hits because you always oblige.

That is all.

[demograph68]

Yay another derail thanks to grammar bitching!

[porieux]

...

[MacinTommy]

wow is this serious? i left for work and i came back to this damn flame fest over something i thought ya'll would like. Im sorry for my bad grammar but in this day and age it seems like stuf like "pwned" and stupid sh*t like that are accepted but oh look hes a junior member we can flame the sh*t out of him! why dont you just laugh at the stupid article, make your comment about IT and then just get on with life...

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by MacinTommy

wow is this serious? i left for work and i came back to this damn flame fest over something i thought ya'll would like. Im sorry for my bad grammar but in this day and age it seems like stuf like "pwned" and stupid sh*t like that are accepted but oh look hes a junior member we can flame the sh*t out of him! why dont you just laugh at the stupid article, make your comment about IT and then just get on with life...

These ***hole get me for grammar all the time. As for the article: yes i care less about that stupid Zune.

[ghporter]

And we covered the whole "I could/I couldn't care" thing in detail (with charts, graphs, and a disertation or three) a few months ago. The two phrases are both semantically equivalent and semantically distinct; if one wants to show derision, one uses "couldn't" while if one wants to show indifference, one uses "could."

GET OVER IT! Can we go back to dissing the Zune? Please? I like doing that!

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Uh oh. 'I could care less' is a perfectly valid expression.

No its not. It's just explained by some person on a website.

It is a dumb and meaningless expression, that is noticably used by less than average intelligent people.

One needs at least 95 IQ to understand a sentance with double-negative and saracsm!

Either way, it is not a perfectly valid expression.. not even a valid expression. It's just dumb. Like the people who use it.

V

[ghporter]

voodoo, please READ the first paragraph in my post above yours. There are two technically different meanings in these two phrases that are equivalent in common parlance. More Zune bashing please.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Google it. It started out as a deliberate mistake but has now entered mainstream English. It's fine to use.

Oh and a mistake does not become right just because it has caugth on. All languages have ingrown errors, but they are errors. That's why people go to school and learn to think for themselves.

Writing 'teh man' is probably going to be very common in the near future. Doesn't make it right, though most people will understand and read it without an issue.

As for the opinions of some experts who have decided to spread their wisdom among the unwashed masses through the internet:

I couldn't care less.

V

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by ghporter

voodoo, please READ the first paragraph in my post above yours. There are two technically different meanings in these two phrases that are equivalent in common parlance. More Zune bashing please.

We are talking? I was sure we were writing. Besides it is stupid and annoying to read 'I could care less'.

The accepted rule here is to post with careful spelling and this is no better spelling than som1 dooin teh 1337 $it in teh psots.

S'annyon like hells d00d. like,,,,, u now. bad gramnmur.

V

[Googer-Giger]

Lol, when I go there, this little article is surrounded by 5 "i'm a mac" adds.

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by Googer-Giger

Lol, when I go there, this little article is surrounded by 5 "i'm a mac" adds.

I saw it!

[icruise]

Originally Posted by ghporter

if one wants to show derision, one uses "couldn't" while if one wants to show indifference, one uses "could."

voodoo, please READ the first paragraph in my post above yours. There are two technically different meanings in these two phrases that are equivalent in common parlance. More Zune bashing please.

You can make up a distinction if you want, but the fact of the matter is that it's simply another case of people misusing a phrase. If I hear someone say they "could care less" it just makes me think that they couldn't care less about how they appear to other people.

[icruise]

As for the Zune, what's with the last sentence of the article:

As Gizmodo points out, many iPod-toting Mac users won't mind too much--except the ones who are still bitter that the new round of iPods doesn't come with Wi-Fi.

Is ANYONE bitter that the iPod doesn't have wi-fi? That's like saying that you're bitter that your bicycle doesn't have a built-in waffle maker. I'm not saying that wi-fi doesn't have potential (although Microsoft is going to have to come up with some more compelling uses than the "listen to a song 3 times" thing). But this person is acting like wi-fi is an expected feature on MP3 players or something.

[itai195]

I've got to fight the good fight on this one, the phrase 'could care less' is grammatically incorrect and thus I proclaim it to be stupid.

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by itai195

I've got to fight the good fight on this one, the phrase 'could care less' is grammatically incorrect and thus I proclaim it to be stupid.

Is the sentence actually grammatically poor, or does it simply not make sense (to you)?

[itai195]

If you're referring to my sentence, yes it was probably grammatically poor. But at least it made sense.

[icruise]

It ("I could care less") is perfectly grammatical, but it doesn't mean what the speakers seem to think it means. In fact, it's the opposite. If you could care less, then you're not completely indifferent, which is what the phrase is *supposed* to mean.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by MacinTommy

wow is this serious? i left for work and i came back to this damn flame fest over something i thought ya'll would like. Im sorry for my bad grammar but in this day and age it seems like stuf like "pwned" and stupid sh*t like that are accepted but oh look hes a junior member we can flame the sh*t out of him! why dont you just laugh at the stupid article, make your comment about IT and then just get on with life...

We weren't really flaming you over the it, MacinTommy, and I apologize if it came across that way. It was just a linguistic debate.

Incidentally, I was reading a Slashdot page on Mac marketshare, and right before I was to hit the close button on the tab I just happened to see the same phrase here.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by voodoo

We are talking? I was sure we were writing. Besides it is stupid and annoying to read 'I could care less'.

The accepted rule here is to post with careful spelling and this is no better spelling than som1 dooin teh 1337 $it in teh psots.

S'annyon like hells d00d. like,,,,, u now. bad gramnmur.

V

Originally Posted by voodoo

I couldn't care less.

V

Oh, I'm pretty sure you could care less!
Because if you would, there wouldn't be any quotes in my post!





edit: And to be back on topic: Zune? Hmm, looks ok but why should I care what kind of MP3 player other people buy (or like)? Why should I care about windows users? I really don't, that's why I don't use Anti-Virus software and forward every suspicous mail to all my windows "friends"!

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by Icruise

It ("I could care less") is perfectly grammatical, but it doesn't mean what the speakers seem to think it means. In fact, it's the opposite. If you could care less, then you're not completely indifferent, which is what the phrase is *supposed* to mean.

Again, I think the general idea of "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" is essentially the same "I don't care.", examination beyond will probably find that the speaker didn't give any thought to what he was saying.

MacinTommy, this doesn't have anything to do with your grammer per se, just the phrase and it's application in general. Please don't take it personally.

[ajprice]

To me 'couldnt care less' about something means 'I don't care'. But by saying that you 'could care less' implies that you do care about the subject. So to talk about something you are not bothered about and say 'I could care less about it' is saying the opposite of what you mean.

[Millennium]

Who cares about another iPod ripoff with an inferior interface, no FireWire, and tied to music-rental scams? Indeed, we couldn't care less.

[ChrisF]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Who cares about another iPod ripoff with an inferior interface, no FireWire...

iPods don't support firewire anymore either.