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ResEdit, etc.
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TheGreatButcher
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Jun 13, 2000, 01:29 PM
 
Will programs like ResEdit and MacsBug be updated for OS X? I've been using these since as long as I can remember and it'd be nice to know that altering apps and debugging the system can still be easy on OS X. What exactly happens when you push the interrupt button when running OS X? Can someone with DP4 test this out? I've been using a really old memroy clear command in that prompt if an app goes bad and it's usually about as reliable or more reliable than force quitting. If anyone has answers please post them!
     
Scott_H
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Jun 13, 2000, 02:00 PM
 
The good news is that your aren't going to have to use something like MacBugs with OS X. Maybe the Classic mode could use it but I would guess that MacBugs wont run in Classic. OS X is robust enough to kill off a bad process and see that it feels pain

ResEdit I don't know. OS X does not use the resource fork like Mac OS does. But there will be files and resources for some older files with OS X???? So I guess there's a need? OS X will use XML plist to keep resources. So a good XML editor should do.
     
MacOS761
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Jun 13, 2000, 03:44 PM
 
I believe Scott is right, except that I did see a screen shot of MacsBug (sp. is MacsBug, not MacBugs, BTW) running in Classic. Since XML will be (is) OS X's standard file format for so many things, you will need an XML editor to replace the functionality of our beloved ResEdit.
<a href="http://www.macronyms.com" target="_blank"> </a>
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anonymous
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Jun 13, 2000, 10:28 PM
 
Mac OS X DP4 ships with an XML property list editor included in the Developer tools, making it easy to alter many settings.

Cocoa applications in particular will be easy to customize, since their actual interfaces are stored as "nibs" inside the application bundle...and these can be opened directly in Interface Builder. One can open up the interface files for the Calculator app, for example, and change around the button locations, menu locations, what controls are associated with what actions, and so on. Anything that doesn't involve the actual program code can be modified.

     
Orbit
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Jun 14, 2000, 11:15 PM
 
yeah the system is stable, but come on- you still need a low-level debugger. The purpose of a debugger isn't necessarily to keep crashes from happening but to figure out why they're happening and blast them out of code. You can't do that without a debugger. OS X has a debugger automatically enabled (debug code? it's probably throwing up an interrupt after every single cycle.. nothing like that to slow a system to a crawl..) I don't know if MacsBug specifically has support but there is a debugger - I've been involuntarily dropped into it. It's the command line- less ugly than MacsBug- the screen sort of rolls up like a shade and shows the command line underneath. No freaked out video like we're all used to!
     
Scott_H
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Jun 14, 2000, 11:41 PM
 
Unix does have the ability to "core dump". A core is a copy of the state of a program in the memory when it crash and the OS gives it the boot. I'm sure that it'll be of little use to us. It would be interesting to have a method to upload a core dump to a software company so they can find out what went wrong. There are different UNIX tools for looking at core files. But if the programm is not compiled for bebugging it wont help us much.

As for "low level" stuff???? I've used Unix everyday for six years and never had a situation where such a thing was needed. "Kernal Panics" are rare. In my experence most UNIX crashed are caused by bad hardware. Everything else can core dump.

If Apple gets it right OS X will be the most stable desktop OS ever.
     
AAPl Shareholder
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Jun 21, 2000, 06:38 AM
 
OS X does use 'some' resources, but resedit is not the tool to edit them. Look for an OS X version of resourcer or something.
"Wait, these aren't my lamps. These lamps have feet. This must not be my apartment. I'd better get a new apartment."
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Orbit
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Jun 22, 2000, 12:01 AM
 
Okay, maybe the definition of "low-level" in reference to debugging should be revised a little bit when talking about Mac OS X. in Classic Mac OS, you needed a debugger (MacsBug) to intercept the current OS process and show you what is in memory.. you can do a stack dump (dumping the contents of the current stack into a text file) and step through programs etc..
Since OS X has processes delegated as threads by BSD and Mach, the debugger wouldn't need to go below these software components - you still need a debugger though, and you still need to see what's in memory, even if your program's memory space is different from the system's memory space. Stop me please.. I don't know nearly enough about what I'm saying on this subject...
     
Scott_H
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Jun 22, 2000, 02:22 AM
 
Oh I see what you're getting at. I use UNIX at work. I tend to use "top" to show the top prcesses and another tool for Irix that shows what app is using how much RAM. "top" is the Precess Manager (or whatever Apple calls it) so that's there. As for memory useage I guess some hacker will spit one out in no time. It might be cool to have a tool to load and unload drivers and stuff.
     
Orbit
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Jun 22, 2000, 06:28 AM
 
IRIX kicks ass. that is all.
     
macinteo
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Jun 22, 2000, 10:25 AM
 
i can tell u that u can find a little resedit included in the Desktop.app.

All u need to do is open a Finder-browser, select a Cocoa application (every '.app'-ed application), open the Inspector panel (command-i), and option-double-click the icon.

The application will reveal itself as a folder where u'll be able to do a first level of hacking, perhaps at the same level u can do with resedit.

nice...
     
wormman
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Jun 22, 2000, 12:32 PM
 
Take a look at this document to understand almost everything about OS X.
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/...emOverview.pdf

Pay close attentions to Bundles, because they replace the need for a resource fork and allow mac applications to be placed on file systems that don't support multiple forks. Each resource is basically placed as an individual file in the bundle, which is a folder. When a user double-clicks on this folder it behaves just like an application and launces the executable inside (for Application bundles).

Page 20 &gt;&gt;Because an application package contains everything an application needs to execute on more than one system, certain advanced features become easier to realize, such as remotely executing an application on a server, distributing applications over the
Internet, and simplified installation and uninstallation. See the chapter "Application Packaging" (page 87) for more information.

Page 72 &gt;&gt; You can install, relocate, and remove bundles simply by dragging and dropping them.

Page 87 &gt;&gt; Several advantages come with this internal organization, among them ease of
installation and uninstallation, the inclusion of multiple localizations, support for multiple architectures and volume formats, and the capability for a single application to run, without modification, on Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X.

Page 88 &gt;&gt; Applications are easy to install and uninstall; all the user must do is drag the application package onto a volume or, for uninstall, drag it to the Trash. Because applications are file packages, users cannot "break" them by removing or changing essential parts of them. Users can, however, change the names of applications without affecting them.

     
   
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