[hcorf]

I am from the uk but am staying in India for a while, one of the shops here is selling me marlboro reds that are supposedly from the us.

I have heard over the years that us marlboro are much better than the european ones. I wondered if anyone out there from the us who smokes marlboro could tell me what is written on the side of the packets.

THe ones i am being sold say 'US tax exempt for sale outside the US' and also 'Made under authority of phillip morris....'

I just hoped that someone could help me verify this because having a source of real us marlboro would be quite a find.

Incidentally, how much do they cost in the states? i am being offered 65 rupees which i believe is about 1 dollar and fifty cents.

Any help would be appreciated, i know it seems like an odd place to ask but the mac forums seem to be the most active on the net.

[Ozmodiar]

What exactly qualifies as "on topic" in the Lounge?

Anyway, around here a pack of marbs will run you between $3.50 and 4.00 US at a gas station and higher at a convenience store. I'm not sure what they say on the side, though I'm sure it's something like "Warning: The Surgeon General says it's bad to smoke if you're a human" or something.

What have you heard about them that makes the US version better than elsewhere? I'm kind of curious if it's the buzz or flavor or what. I think marb reds taste like a urinal, personally, but to each his own.

[AKcrab]

I have a pack of Marlboro's in front of me.. The only thing on the package about origin is:
Phillip Morris USA
Richmond, VA 23261
MADE IN USA

Don't think yours are "genuine" U.S. (Also not sure it matters.)

[Lancer409]

The Philip Morris announcement sent a shiver down the spines of other Indian manufacturers. Philip Morris is launching the world's bestselling cigarette Marlboro at a relatively affordable Rs 75 for a pack of 20.

and...

Marlboro is available at between Rs 60 and to Rs 65 in the smuggled market.

[tavilach]

http://www.americanheart.org/present...tifier=3031088

Sorry about the derail, but I just don't understand the carefree attitude of most smokers , who knowingly inflict physical damage on friends and relatives, without even thinking twice about it. I just don't get it.

Of course, if you smoke alone, go for it.

[hcorf]

thanks so much for the help guys. I bought a pack anyway, and they smoke pretty good.

BTW, believe me, marlboro from different countries taste different. Phillip Morris make them in Russia now and they taste like feet, the ones in europe now taste like air to me because i have been smoking them for five years and i think my tastebuds have adapted.

If you american guys think the ones you get taste like urinals or whatever you should try some russian or european ones.

They make them in different places around the world now because its not economical to ship them from the US.

So if they taste bad, what brand do you guys smoke? I sometimes go for camel or sobraine, but i really smoke anything short of crack.

And to the smoke hater, i really dont want to start an argument, but i work 13 hours a day, and i have to get rid of the stress. Also, i dont know anyone above the age of about 75 who isnt miserable, maybe its just the uk, but i would rather die of lung cancer at 70 with a full head of hair and full use of my legs than wait for something else to kill me off later.

[hcorf]

just a quick addition, nice to see some people are taking an interest outside the whole apple/intel thing, it is boring me silly.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by hcorf

And to the smoke hater, i really dont want to start an argument, but i work 13 hours a day, and i have to get rid of the stress. Also, i dont know anyone above the age of about 75 who isnt miserable, maybe its just the uk, but i would rather die of lung cancer at 70 with a full head of hair and full use of my legs than wait for something else to kill me off later.

Don't work 13 hours a day. Nothing is worth working 13 hours a day unless it's temporary. And get yourself a stressball. Saying that smoking takes away stress is easy, there are a lot of other means to get rid of stress and that won't get you killed.

[hcorf]

i do hope you anti smoking guys realise that telling people not to do something (especially kids) is one of the best ways to make sure they do.

Maybe is everyone just stopped talking about smoking people wouldnt be so tempted to start.

As for people that do smoke already, leave us alone, we can make an independant decision can't we?

and if you like telling people to stop smoking to improve their health. Go tell fat people to stop eating and see what reaction you get then.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by hcorf

but i would rather die of lung cancer at 70 with a full head of hair and full use of my legs than wait for something else to kill me off later.

Have you ever seen anybody die of lung cancer? Let me assure you there are better ways to go. Much better ways.

Originally Posted by hcorf

As for people that do smoke already, leave us alone, we can make an independant decision can't we?

Agreed. As long as you:

1. Smoke only where it doesn't affect any third party.
2. Agree to pay all of own your medical bills for any smoking related diseases.

[Taloston Man]

I'm a smoker myself, but I did think it appropriate to point out that the dying-of-lung-cancer-at-70 optimistic scenario might be giving yourself a little more time than is becoming realistic....
Depends on quantity, frequency of lighting up though, I suppose.

[Josh Reid]

Not a smoker, but...just an FYI, cigg prices vary all over the US. For instance, in New York City, a pack of Marlboros will run you over $7.00 !!

[sek929]

I smoke (P-funks baby!) but I don't plan on doing so for much longer. I can easily go a full 8 hour work day without having one or really even thinking about one. However while partying and bar hoping on the weekends I tend to smoke almost a pack in 2 days (Fri +Sat).

Being informed on the dangers of ciggarettes I definetely do not want to become a chain smoking 30 year old, I am damn good at giving up any substance if I feel it nessisary (not coffee though, I need it) and I am fairly confident I could give up cigs...of course just by saying that 99% of the people reading this post are gonna say "Yeah right!" but I do have good willpower. Its just right now I still enjoy the hell out of them in social situations involving booze (and the occasional morning wake up cig+coffee) so I'll continue to be "one of those people" who you non-smokers are downwind of.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by hcorf

i do hope you anti smoking guys realise that telling people not to do something (especially kids) is one of the best ways to make sure they do.

Maybe is everyone just stopped talking about smoking people wouldnt be so tempted to start.

As for people that do smoke already, leave us alone, we can make an independant decision can't we?

and if you like telling people to stop smoking to improve their health. Go tell fat people to stop eating and see what reaction you get then.

Don't jump to conclusions. I could honestly care less about your health: If you want to kill yourself slowly, then by all means, go for it! What I care about is the health of everyone else. I'm sure you're aware of the dangers of second hand smoking. If not, please refer to the article above.

Your analogy isn't valid. If fat people want to eat, then I'll sure as hell let them eat (unless it's a person close to me with an eating disorder, but that's a different story). If smokers want to smoke, then smoke alone. Your decision is an independant one for you, but the health of others depends on it. Should a murderer make an independant decision? Sure, he/she might like killing people, but there's a bit more at stake. That's the better analogy.

Since you keep missing the point, I'll reiterate: I am strongly opposed to smokers who smoke amongst non-smokers who haven't given full consent. Saying "Do you mind?" as you light your cigarette is not what I'm talking about, as there's a huge intimidation factor.

I hope you see my point.

[RAILhead]

Smokers: I have to inhale the crap that's regurgitated from your lungs.
Smokers: I have to see the butts all over the city.
Smokers: I have to smell like you all day because I just so happened to be down wind.
Smokers: Your crap gets into my lungs.

Fat People: I don't inhale anything regurgitated from their lungs.
Fat People: I rarely see McDonald's wrappers laying in parking lots, etc.
Fat People: If a fat person smells, being down wind from them doesn't make me stink.
Fat people: Their fat doesn't leap from their body onto mine.

NO SOUP FOR YOU!

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Smokers: I have to inhale the crap that's regurgitated from your lungs.
Smokers: I have to see the butts all over the city.
Smokers: I have to smell like you all day because I just so happened to be down wind.
Smokers: Your crap gets into my lungs.

Fat People: I don't inhale anything regurgitated from their lungs.
Fat People: I rarely see McDonald's wrappers laying in parking lots, etc.
Fat People: If a fat person smells, being down wind from them doesn't make me stink.
Fat people: Their fat doesn't leap from their body onto mine.

NO SOUP FOR YOU!

Well said.

Amazingly, the only place I really experience cigarette smoke other than a bar is a gas station. I can't stand having to stand in line to pay for my gas and soda in a place where people smoke. I then smell like smoke all day. Cigarette smoke also can trigger a migraine headache and ruins my whole day.

Smokers are some of the most selfish people. They can very little about the affect their addiction causes on non-smokers. Every night on my way home from work I'll see 5-10 flashes on the road from smokers flicking their still lit cigarettes out the window. In a couple weeks I'll see numerous burn spots along the side of the road where a discarded cigarette has caused a brush fire. And then I'll read in the paper where a forest fire has caused millions of damages.

KEEP YOUR CIGARETTES IN YOUR CAR!!!

[hcorf]

I should mention that i am just as worried about 2nd hand smoking as the next guy, i dont do it near children, and if i am with a non smoker i do ask before i light up.

Agreed, the fat people analogy was probably a bad example there, but just dont pretend smoking is the no.1 anti-social activity of all time.

Not quite sure how we got into this whole argument, i think my main point is giving people the freedom to smoke. An example would be in an office, if no one minds about smoking in any particular place then why not allow it. It would of course be easiest if everyone smoked like they had it about fifty years ago or so, then no-one would have to worry about non-smokers being bothered by it. In the uk smokers do have more reasons to be angry at the anti-smoking lobby's because there are plans to ban smoking in all bars that serve food, and since the biggest margins come from serving food, it could mean a lot of non-smoking bars.

Hope we dont go on about this for too long, not much else to say i think.,

[Ratm]

Originally Posted by hcorf

I am from the uk

Actually the zigs from Europe have less tarter and other crap that make them a "healthier" smoke than the US ones. I'd smoke the ones from over there if I can find them.

[sek929]

You people are really funnny.

Fat people are unhealthy, I forgot who said it earlier but maybe they would enjoy paying for their own healthcare too. I breath all of your car and truck fumes everyday, especially from the new "I'm buying a Ford Diesel to drive fast around the city and look badass!", and my skin gets burned by the lack of ozone in the atmosphere. McDonalds wrappers are EVERYWHERE where I live and you can see em way easier than butts. Oh yeah people with Harleys and straightpipes wake my ass up at night when their super loud annoyance machine rumbles past my house. I could complain about all these people being the most inconsiderate but then I'd seem as whiny as the rest of you.

Yes butts pollute and annoy people but so doesn't everything else is this "I'm important, my whining counts!" world. Save your breath, you'll need it when I'm blowing my P-funk smoke down your sissy windpipe.

[Kilbey]

Originally Posted by sek929

You people are really funnny.

Fat people are unhealthy, I forgot who said it earlier but maybe they would enjoy paying for their own healthcare too. I breath all of your car and truck fumes everyday, especially from the new "I'm buying a Ford Diesel to drive fast around the city and look badass!", and my skin gets burned by the lack of ozone in the atmosphere. McDonalds wrappers are EVERYWHERE where I live and you can see em way easier than butts. Oh yeah people with Harleys and straightpipes wake my ass up at night when their super loud annoyance machine rumbles past my house. I could complain about all these people being the most inconsiderate but then I'd seem as whiny as the rest of you.

Yes butts pollute and annoy people but so doesn't everything else is this "I'm important, my whining counts!" world. Save your breath, you'll need it when I'm blowing my P-funk smoke down your sissy windpipe.

Sounds like you live in a crappy part of the world. I'd move if I were you!

[Cubeoid]

[Kilbey]

You don't get sarcasm do you?

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by sek929

You people are really funnny.

Fat people are unhealthy, I forgot who said it earlier but maybe they would enjoy paying for their own healthcare too. I breath all of your car and truck fumes everyday, especially from the new "I'm buying a Ford Diesel to drive fast around the city and look badass!", and my skin gets burned by the lack of ozone in the atmosphere. McDonalds wrappers are EVERYWHERE where I live and you can see em way easier than butts. Oh yeah people with Harleys and straightpipes wake my ass up at night when their super loud annoyance machine rumbles past my house. I could complain about all these people being the most inconsiderate but then I'd seem as whiny as the rest of you.

Yes butts pollute and annoy people but so doesn't everything else is this "I'm important, my whining counts!" world. Save your breath, you'll need it when I'm blowing my P-funk smoke down your sissy windpipe.

Heh, silly sek. You are teh funnay 0ne here.

If you were to go back and read the posts prior to your drivel, you would clearly see that the main denominator of the anti-smoking posts had nothing whatsoever to do with health. Plainly, they were focusing on how smoker's smoke impacts other people that are not smokers (the smell, the butts, etc.).

And I'm with Kilbey; it sounds like you need need to go to the next town meeting or city council session and get your mayor and other representatives to clean the place up. Of course, if it's really as bad as you're saying, surely you'd have already petitioned your city government to clean up the place -- but just in case you haven't, I thought I'd remind you to do so.



Maury

[von Wrangell]

As usual. A bunch of non-smokers complaining about how smokers behave. Telling them "just quit!".

If you don't like going out to pubs/restaurants that allow smoking why don't you go to the pubs/restaurants that are non-smoking? If you think smokers should pay their own medical bills(besides the extra taxes they already pay while buying the cigs) then it would be time to let fat people pay their own bills, everyone pay bills related to alcohol, and every city dweller to pay for anything related to living in a city(air-way inflammations/infections, allergies, accidents etc etc) and the list goes on.

Look, we smokers understand that you don't like smoke. Most smokers ask if it's ok to lit a cig if around non-smokers(or just go outside to have a smoke). Most smokers try to minimise the second-hand smoking they cause. But smokers are not going to accept being treated like second class citizens. Smoking is not the biggest cause of death in the western world. Obesity/lack of excercise, pollution and traffic related accidents are. Worry about those before you start talking about smoking.


ps. there are no reliable data for the effects of second hand smoking. So don't worry. It won't kill you.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

As usual. A bunch of non-smokers complaining about how smokers behave. Telling them "just quit!".

If you don't like going out to pubs/restaurants that allow smoking why don't you go to the pubs/restaurants that are non-smoking? If you think smokers should pay their own medical bills(besides the extra taxes they already pay while buying the cigs) then it would be time to let fat people pay their own bills, everyone pay bills related to alcohol, and every city dweller to pay for anything related to living in a city(air-way inflammations/infections, allergies, accidents etc etc) and the list goes on.

Look, we smokers understand that you don't like smoke. Most smokers ask if it's ok to lit a cig if around non-smokers(or just go outside to have a smoke). Most smokers try to minimise the second-hand smoking they cause. But smokers are not going to accept being treated like second class citizens. Smoking is not the biggest cause of death in the western world. Obesity/lack of excercise, pollution and traffic related accidents are. Worry about those before you start talking about smoking.


ps. there are no reliable data for the effects of second hand smoking. So don't worry. It won't kill you.

Good luck with finding a pub where you can't smoke. They just passed a law forbidding smoking in restaurants in Belgium tough. They were planning on forbidding it for pubs as well but the pub owners whined to much about it.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Good luck with finding a pub where you can't smoke. They just passed a law forbidding smoking in restaurants in Belgium tough. They were planning on forbidding it for pubs as well but the pub owners whined to much about it.

If there are so many that want that kind of restaurants and pubs then there should be enough business for it. Why is it that non-smokers aren't productive and inventive enough to start businesses like that? Why is it that non-smokers feel it's better to employ the typical tyranny of the majority to ban smoking instead of just starting their own businesses?

Like I said, if many are so against smoking a pub/restaurant that forbids smoking should be a goldmine.

[d.fine]

They should try make odorless cigs, maybe it would be less annoying, but by no means less damaging.

[von Wrangell]

Do you stay inside all day to prevent meeting people who smell bad?

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

If there are so many that want that kind of restaurants and pubs then there should be enough business for it. Why is it that non-smokers aren't productive and inventive enough to start businesses like that? Why is it that non-smokers feel it's better to employ the typical tyranny of the majority to ban smoking instead of just starting their own businesses?

Like I said, if many are so against smoking a pub/restaurant that forbids smoking should be a goldmine.

Because a lot of smokers would sue for "discrimination" that's why. Anyway, it's horribly annoying to be eating while there are smokers around, it completely ruins the food. Some people do care about the quality of their food.

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Do you stay inside all day to prevent meeting people who smell bad?

With all due respect, that is a ridiculous argument.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Because a lot of smokers would sue for "discrimination" that's why. Anyway, it's horribly annoying to be eating while there are smokers around, it completely ruins the food. Some people do care about the quality of their food.

ummm, no they couldn't. They could possibly do that if you(the owner) would ban them from entering but no one is talking about that. Even smokers would go to the non-smoking establishment.

With all due respect, that is a ridiculous argument.

I know. It's just as ridiculous as complaining about an annoying smell.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

As usual. A bunch of non-smokers complaining about how smokers behave. Telling them "just quit!".

If you don't like going out to pubs/restaurants that allow smoking why don't you go to the pubs/restaurants that are non-smoking? If you think smokers should pay their own medical bills(besides the extra taxes they already pay while buying the cigs) then it would be time to let fat people pay their own bills, everyone pay bills related to alcohol, and every city dweller to pay for anything related to living in a city(air-way inflammations/infections, allergies, accidents etc etc) and the list goes on.

Look, we smokers understand that you don't like smoke. Most smokers ask if it's ok to lit a cig if around non-smokers(or just go outside to have a smoke). Most smokers try to minimise the second-hand smoking they cause. But smokers are not going to accept being treated like second class citizens. Smoking is not the biggest cause of death in the western world. Obesity/lack of excercise, pollution and traffic related accidents are. Worry about those before you start talking about smoking.

ps. there are no reliable data for the effects of second hand smoking. So don't worry. It won't kill you.

That's not what I'm talking about. But since you bring it up, I *do* go to non-smoking eateries, etc. Of course, some places are so bassackward that to get to the non-smoking seating, you have to walk through the smoking section -- nice way to ruin an appetite.

What I was referring to just happened when I came into work. One of the guys I work with -- a good friend -- takes smoke breaks about 10 times a day and he smokes outside by the back door of our office building, which is where we park. He knows 99% of us hate smoke, so he usually steps well out of the way while we enter the building -- but there's a thing called WIND he can't control. So as i walk inside -- event hough he had the best intentions -- I still got a face/body full of smoke. Niiiiiiiiiiice.

And don't even get me started about how smokers get to have smoke breaks while the rest of don't get "breaks" -- it's ridiculous, and needs to be changed at the upper levels of our company (banning all smoke breaks).

I still don't understand why smokers keep bringing up fat people. Again, their fat does not leap from their body onto mine. I do not breathe their fat. I do not smell like their fat when they walk by me. When I roll down my windows during nice weather, my car does not smell like fat when a fat person drives by. Fat people do not flick their fat butts out the windows of their cars. There isn't a disgusting bucket of fat outside our office full of fat cells.

Say it with me: SMOKING AND OBESITY HAVE NOTING IN COMMON. SMOKING AND OBESITY HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON.

Maury

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Do you stay inside all day to prevent meeting people who smell bad?

To be honest with you, while I don't "stay inside all day," I *do* generally try and keep from being around people that offensively stink, yes.

Doesn't everyone?

[Mastrap]

I love, love, love the fact that in Ontario you cannot smoke in bars and restaurants. You can go out for the night and don't come home stinking of other people's smoke. You can go for a drink and not stand in a haze of second hand smoke.

Perhaps strangely, even my few remaining smoking friends like it.

Of course, when the legislation was first introduced there was the usual chorus of indignation. Loss of business was the reason most often touted. The reality? Business has actually gone up. Why? Because the environment is nicer.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

That's not what I'm talking about. But since you bring it up, I *do* go to non-smoking eateries, etc. Of course, some places are so bassackward that to get to the non-smoking seating, you have to walk through the smoking section -- nice way to ruin an appetite.

I agree about this. I hate seeing various establishments setting up non-smoking areas that could just as well be smoking areas due to the close proximity to the smokers. It's bad for everyone involved.

What I was referring to just happened when I came into work. One of the guys I work with -- a good friend -- takes smoke breaks about 10 times a day and he smokes outside by the back door of our office building, which is where we park. He knows 99% of us hate smoke, so he usually steps well out of the way while we enter the building -- but there's a thing called WIND he can't control. So as i walk inside -- event hough he had the best intentions -- I still got a face/body full of smoke. Niiiiiiiiiiice.

C'mon. As you say he tries his best to minimise the effect it has on you who don't smoke. And still you complain. Do you want him fired or what do you propose? This complaining about a little smoke is only psychosomatic. It's no worse than the car exhaust fumes you inhale everyday and don't complain about.

And don't even get me started about how smokers get to have smoke breaks while the rest of don't get "breaks" -- it's ridiculous, and needs to be changed at the upper levels of our company (banning all smoke breaks).

It's different between countries but perhaps you should check out the laws in your country. In Sweden by law employers have a 5 minute break every hour. If smokers choose to smoke during that time it's none of your business. But I agree that in those places where there aren't such rules in place smokers shouldn't take breaks. Although many of the smokers I know(including myself) just work harder while not on break to make up for any lost time.

I still don't understand why smokers keep bringing up fat people. Again, their fat does not leap from their body onto mine. I do not breathe their fat. I do not smell like their fat when they walk by me. When I roll down my windows during nice weather, my car does not smell like fat when a fat person drives by. Fat people do not flick their fat butts out the windows of their cars. There isn't a disgusting bucket of fat outside our office full of fat cells.

Say it with me: SMOKING AND OBESITY HAVE NOTING IN COMMON. SMOKING AND OBESITY HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON.

Maury

If you are allowed to complain about the smell of cigarette smoke why can't I complain about the sight of oversized people? Aren't both as shallow?

Obesity costs more to our healthcare system than smoking does and obesity has various other effects comparable or worse than smoking has.

I'd understand if you complained if everyone in your office smoked inside and you just couldn't get out of it. But while it's just walking through some smoke(even if people try to minimize it) or that you feel the smell of cigarettes while walking downtown you are just as shallow as people who complain about fat people.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I love, love, love the fact that in Ontario you cannot smoke in bars and restaurants. You can go out for the night and don't come home stinking of other people's smoke. You can go for a drink and not stand in a haze of second hand smoke.

Perhaps strangely, even my few remaining smoking friends like it.

Of course, when the legislation was first introduced there was the usual chorus of indignation. Loss of business was the reason most often touted. The reality? Business has actually gone up. Why? Because the environment is nicer.

Again, why didn't non-smokers put up non-smoking establishments? That way you could have your places to go to and we smokers could have our places to go to and everyone would be happy.

But instead it's necessary for you to force your own way of living on others.

ps. And you still smell like hell after a night out now. You just don't smell it because you are used to that smell. It's alcohol and you are drenched in that and sweat after a night out. There's no difference.

[version]

65 Rupees is pretty decent. Don't worry about the packaging, they vary over regions. Buy one, try it out, if it goes down ok, you'll be alright.

If you want to go native, find a tobacco seller and load up on it, then buy a hookah and mellow the while away.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

C'mon. As you say he tries his best to minimise the effect it has on you who don't smoke. And still you complain. Do you want him fired or what do you propose? This complaining about a little smoke is only psychosomatic. It's no worse than the car exhaust fumes you inhale everyday and don't complain about.

No, I don't want him fired -- he's a good golf buddy of mine. however, if he's going to smoke, he needs to do it AWAY from any of the building's entrances. The conference room even smells like smoke when he and the other smokers get done out there. Making the smokers smoke away from all the entrances would have to be an order from the Powers That Be, and that will probably never happens so as not to ruffle feathers.

How do you know what affect a "little smoke" has on me? Rarely do I ever smell car exhaust -- and I never stink of it.

It's different between countries but perhaps you should check out the laws in your country. In Sweden by law employers have a 5 minute break every hour. If smokers choose to smoke during that time it's none of your business. But I agree that in those places where there aren't such rules in place smokers shouldn't take breaks. Although many of the smokers I know(including myself) just work harder while not on break to make up for any lost time.

Thank the Maker that we don't have that law here, because it's totally inane. People that work in an office have no reason to take a break IMHO. When you add up the amount of time spent jack-jawing or talking on the phone, they get more free time than they should as it is.

If you are allowed to complain about the smell of cigarette smoke why can't I complain about the sight of oversized people? Aren't both as shallow?

You can complain all you want, but obesity and smoking have no relation whatsoever in what I've been talking about. Why do you keep trying to make a connection that doesn't exist?

Obesity costs more to our healthcare system than smoking does and obesity has various other effects comparable or worse than smoking has.

So?

I'd understand if you complained if everyone in your office smoked inside and you just couldn't get out of it. But while it's just walking through some smoke(even if people try to minimize it) or that you feel the smell of cigarettes while walking downtown you are just as shallow as people who complain about fat people.

And?

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Again, why didn't non-smokers put up non-smoking establishments? That way you could have your places to go to and we smokers could have our places to go to and everyone would be happy.

But instead it's necessary for you to force your own way of living on others.

ps. And you still smell like hell after a night out now. You just don't smell it because you are used to that smell. It's alcohol and you are drenched in that and sweat after a night out. There's no difference.

There's a huge difference.

Smokers are a minority. Smoking is harmful. Second hand smoke is harmful and unpleasant to non smokers. Thus, smoking in a public place is anti-social. Why on earth should I as a non smoker put up with a handful of people who need to feed their addiction in public and in the process ruin my environment and put my health at risk?

Smoking has been, until recently, a socially acceptable thing to do in public. As a result there were very few non-smoking places to choose from. Restaurant and bar owners assumed, wrongly as it has turned out, that opening a non smoking place would be bad for business. Thus there was no choice. We were forced to put up with your aerial pollutants.

When I go out to a restaurant or bar I don't smell of sweat or alcohol when I get home. I don't binge drink and I don't sweat whilst eating or drinking.


PS: I rant in exactly the same way about people who drive SUVs in the city.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

No, I don't want him fired -- he's a good golf buddy of mine. however, if he's going to smoke, he needs to do it AWAY from any of the building's entrances. The conference room even smells like smoke when he and the other smokers get done out there. Making the smokers smoke away from all the entrances would have to be an order from the Powers That Be, and that will probably never happens so as not to ruffle feathers.

How do you know what affect a "little smoke" has on me? Rarely do I ever smell car exhaust -- and I never stink of it.

Well if you live in any medium sized city or above you do inhale car exhaust and smell like car exhaust. You just don't feel it because you are used to it.

In fact living in a city is comparable to smoking up to 10 cigs a day just due to pollution(can't be arsed diggin up the link).

Thank the Maker that we don't have that law here, because it's totally inane. People that work in an office have no reason to take a break IMHO. When you add up the amount of time spent jack-jawing or talking on the phone, they get more free time than they should as it is.

Well then perhaps you need to change how you work over there. Here people work hard until the brake and don't spend too much time on the phone or talking to other. Seems like its more your problem than ours.

You can complain all you want, but obesity and smoking have no relation whatsoever in what I've been talking about. Why do you keep trying to make a connection that doesn't exist?

What are you then talking about? You seem to mostly be complaining about the smell. Well, if you complain about smell why can't other complain about what they see? Is it because you are always right?

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Again, why didn't non-smokers put up non-smoking establishments? That way you could have your places to go to and we smokers could have our places to go to and everyone would be happy.

But instead it's necessary for you to force your own way of living on others.

ps. And you still smell like hell after a night out now. You just don't smell it because you are used to that smell. It's alcohol and you are drenched in that and sweat after a night out. There's no difference.

Well, maybe the non-smokers and regulators in your area will band together and ban smoking everywhere. That will solve the problem nicely

Smoking is an addiction that kills the smoker slowly and harms everyone around them at the same time.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

There's a huge difference.

Smokers are a minority. Smoking is harmful. Second hand smoke is harmful and unpleasant to non smokers. Thus, smoking in a public place is anti-social. Why on earth should I as a non smoker put up with a handful of people who need to feed their addiction in public and in the process ruin my environment and put my health at risk?

There is no reliable data on the effects of second hand smoking. Every study has been shot down because they lack seriously in remembering that causation is not the same as correlation. And I could use just the same arguments as you made above about alcohol. Unfortunately alcohol is viewed in a positive way(mostly) by the majority and hence nothing will be done about that.

Smoking has been, until recently, a socially acceptable thing to do in public. As a result there were very few non-smoking places to choose from. Restaurant and bar owners assumed, wrongly as it has turned out, that opening a non smoking place would be bad for business. Thus there was no choice. We were forced to put up with your aerial pollutants.

That points to non-smokers not being as much against smoking in public as they pretend to be now. If all non-smokers would want to stay out of smoking areas then we would have a lot more of bars and restaurants that would be non-smoking. But I guess it was more convenient to be able to go out drinking and having a few smokes or maybe even a cigarr yet claim that you don't smoke when you don't drink. I'm forced to put up with your aerial pollutants when I go out just as much as you mine. Every single human being who drinks alcohol(and yes one beer is enough) starts to perspire and exhale alcohol. I'm forced to put up with that just as you have to put up with my smoke.

When I go out to a restaurant or bar I don't smell of sweat or alcohol when I get home. I don't binge drink and I don't sweat whilst eating or drinking.

Well no matter what you say you do smell of alcohol after a night out. Just like the smoker can't smell his cigarette stench you can't smell your alcohol stench. You perspire and exhale alcohol as soon as you start drinking. You don't have to drink very much to start smelling.

PS: I rant in exactly the same way about people who drive SUVs in the city.

Good, because I do as well

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Nicko

Well, maybe the non-smokers and regulators in your area will band together and ban smoking everywhere. That will solve the problem nicely

Smoking is an addiction that kills the smoker slowly and harms everyone around them at the same time.

Well we have among the stricktest non-smoking laws here and they are still going. But that's ok by me. I'm just going to continue living my life and let others spend their whole life worrying about non-issues like second hand smoking and how other smell. I've got more important issues on my mind.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

There is no reliable data on the effects of second hand smoking. Every study has been shot down because they lack seriously in remembering that causation is not the same as correlation.

You really believe that don't you.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

What are you then talking about? You seem to mostly be complaining about the smell. Well, if you complain about smell why can't other complain about what they see? Is it because you are always right?

Their fatness doesn't hurt us. The smell of smoke gets in your clothes and bloody stinks. You need to wash your clothes completely after going out somewhere. Passive smoking hurts other peoples health (I could care less about the health of a smoker). Fat does not get into our bodies/clothes.

And second hand smoking definitely isn't a "small" issue. It does have serious effects.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Nicko

You really believe that don't you.

Well, I work within the field of medical research daily and even my non-smoking fanatic friends agree with me. It's all speculation and grabbing at straws.

To claim that second hand smoking(the regular one and not the smoking over your child all day at home type) is any more detrimental than living in a city is just ignorance on a very high level.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Their fatness doesn't hurt us. The smell of smoke gets in your clothes and bloody stinks. You need to wash your clothes completely after going out somewhere. Passive smoking hurts other peoples health (I could care less about the health of a smoker). Fat does not get into our bodies/clothes.

And second hand smoking definitely isn't a "small" issue. It does have serious effects.

Their fatness costs us more than smoking costs us. The smell of alcohol gets in my clothes and bloody stinks. I need to wash my clothes completely after going out somewhere. Alcohol in the air at pubs hurts people as well.

Second hand smoking(again to clarify: regular second hand smoke and not the smoking over your child at home for 20 years type) is a non-issue. It doesn't have any effects.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

There is no reliable data on the effects of second hand smoking. Every study has been shot down because they lack seriously in remembering that causation is not the same as correlation. And I could use just the same arguments as you made above about alcohol. Unfortunately alcohol is viewed in a positive way(mostly) by the majority and hence nothing will be done about that.

That points to non-smokers not being as much against smoking in public as they pretend to be now. If all non-smokers would want to stay out of smoking areas then we would have a lot more of bars and restaurants that would be non-smoking. But I guess it was more convenient to be able to go out drinking and having a few smokes or maybe even a cigarr yet claim that you don't smoke when you don't drink. I'm forced to put up with your aerial pollutants when I go out just as much as you mine. Every single human being who drinks alcohol(and yes one beer is enough) starts to perspire and exhale alcohol. I'm forced to put up with that just as you have to put up with my smoke.

Well no matter what you say you do smell of alcohol after a night out. Just like the smoker can't smell his cigarette stench you can't smell your alcohol stench. You perspire and exhale alcohol as soon as you start drinking. You don't have to drink very much to start smelling.

Good, because I do as well

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense.

1. Moderate alcohol consumption increases your life expectancy. There is also no such thing as second hand drinking.

2. This is all about smoking in public places. I really don't care if you smoke in the privacy of your own home. But why should I as a non smoker put up with you putting my health at risk and impairing my quality of life in a public place. You are the one who wishes to inconvenience me. Thus the onus to open a smoking bar or club is on you, it is not up to me to open a non smoking bar. Interestingly enough, after the smoking ban kicked in a couple of smoking clubs opened in Toronto. All of them went out of business.

3. I really don't know where you get the idea from that people start smelling after a, for example, glass of wine or two. I can smell your cigarette from across the room. I challenge you to smell my glass of red from more than 3 feet away.

4. There is reliable information on the effects of second hand smoke available. And even if it doesn't kill me, the fact that it irritates my eyes and lung is enough for me to dislike it.

5. Now, SUVs. Soccer mums, dropping their kids off at school, because 'of all the traffic these days'. ARRRRGH>.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Second hand smoking(again to clarify: regular second hand smoke and not the smoking over your child at home for 20 years type) is a non-issue. It doesn't have any effects.

You're presenting your opinion as fact. Many experts disagree.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense.

1. Moderate alcohol consumption increases your life expectancy. There is also no such thing as second hand drinking.

Yes, it is presumed to do that. The data is questioned though because of all the factors that play into life. And yes, there is such a thing as "second hand drinking". There is quite a bit of alcohol in the air at pubs and discos(as well as in some restaurants) that I inhale. That affects me.

2. This is all about smoking in public places. I really don't care if you smoke in the privacy of your own home. But why should I as a non smoker put up with you putting my health at risk and impairing my quality of life in a public place. You are the one who wishes to inconvenience me. Thus the onus to open a smoking bar or club is on you, it is not up to me to open a non smoking bar. Interestingly enough, after the smoking ban kicked in a couple of smoking clubs opened in Toronto. All of them went out of business.

You shouldn't put up with it. The problem is that it doesn't. You walking past me on the street while I'm smoking doesn't effect you more than the bus driving past you at the same time. In fact the bus releases quite more of various gases than my one puff of cigarette smoke does. I don't wish to inconvenience non-smokers. I never ask if it's OK to smoke at someones house, I just go outside and smoke. I never smoke near entrances in the school or other such places. But that I can't go to the pub to have an icecold Coke(Mecca Cola of course) and a cigarette while watching football because it inconveniences you you are having more of an effect on me than I on you. And if you want special treatment(non-smoking bars everywhere) the onus is on you to provide that, not me. The few pubs around here that had special smoking areas had no problems with people complaining about smoke there. Smokers accepted that(mostly), and the non-smokers came to those places as well.

3. I really don't know where you get the idea from that people start smelling after a, for example, glass of wine or two. I can smell your cigarette from across the room. I challenge you to smell my glass of red from more than 3 feet away.

Experience and knowledge are the two reasons I say that. If you haven't tasted alcohol for a while you can feel the smell of alcohol much more than someone who gets a drink or two every other weekend. I can smell from across the room if someone I know has had a beer. Just like I won't notice the smell of smokers you won't notice the smell of alcohol. Our noses adapt to our surroundings. For instance I hate going to conferances in some of the bigger cities because of the terrible smell that follow bigger cities. If you live in that city you won't smell it because your nose/brain has blocked it out. Same applies to alcohol and cigarettes.

4. There is reliable information on the effects of second hand smoke available. And even if it doesn't kill me, the fact that it irritates my eyes and lung is enough for me to dislike it.

Yes, and alcohol irritates my eyes, nose and lungs as well. But I'm not going to lobby for a ban on alcohol. And there is very little reliable data on the effects of second hand smoke. There is some data on the effects it has on children who's parents have always smoked inside at home but even there there is some serious questions about methodology.

5. Now, SUVs. Soccer mums, dropping their kids off at school, because 'of all the traffic these days'. ARRRRGH>.

YA! ARGH!! How about teaching their kids to take the bus or the subway!!

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

You're presenting your opinion as fact. Many experts disagree.

That might very well be. The problem is that none of those experts have any reliable data. And that makes my opinion close to fact.