[greenG4]

For those whose argument against Apple licensing OS X is that Apple is a Hardware Company...straight from the horses mouth at about a 1:20 into the clip...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UVrFeqdOEbc

[goMac]

Originally Posted by greenG4 

For those whose argument against Apple licensing OS X is that Apple is a Hardware Company...straight from the horses mouth at about a 1:20 into the clip...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UVrFeqdOEbc

I see you conveniently forgot the part where at about 1:00 Steve mentions how Apple makes the software and the hardware.

[Big Mac]

Apple makes the whole widget. That's what SJ professes as one of Apple's biggest strengths. On the other hand, SJ also convinced the vanguard for years that he believed in the PPC. If, in the future, he decided it would make business sense to transition to a software mode, he would do it. I don't see it happening any time soon, however, especially with Apple shipping more hardware than ever and doing so well financially.

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I see you conveniently forgot the part where at about 1:00 Steve mentions how Apple makes the software and the hardware.

No, I wasn't trying to ignore it. But Steve specifically says he sees Apple as a software company. I think it's a glimpse into his mind. If he sees Apple as a software company that at this time needs to ship hardware with it, I think he may have plans (possibly as contingency just like Intel processors) to drop the hardware at some point. His statement about how he veiws Apple as a software company just really struck me as interesting.

[James L]

Apple has developed software since the inception of the Mac... they are a software company. No big surprise there.

Steve has also described the importance of vertical integration in the design of his products on many occasions. In the video of their chat he even says:

Walt: But you may be fundamentally a software company, but you’ve been known, at least to your customers and to most journalists as the company that kind of pays a lot of attention to integrating software and hardware…

Steve: Alan Kay had a great quote back in the ’70s, I think. He said, “People that love software want to build their own hardware.”

I think it is important to not take any one comment out of context, or read too much into it. Apple IS a software company, and was one in 1986 when I bought my first Mac. They are also a hardware company, a music distribution company, etc.

[Big Mac]

I just watched a bit of it, and he does very clearly say that Apple is a software company, just as M$ is a software company. I agree with greenG4's subtextual analysis of that comment. However, after being prompted about hardware he does quote Kay's saying, "People who love software want to do their own hardware," and it's a truism that Jobs has always had a passion for hardware. When he founded NeXT he had an opportunity to create an alternative platform in software that ran on other people's hardware, and while that's eventually what he chose to do, he did hardware first and only went to software only when that was a move called for out of necessity. When he returned to Apple his first initiatives were hardware based. The iPod and the iPhone drive Apple's growth; computer hardware is still Apple's core business - although that may well change in the future. If Apple thought OS X could be marketed viably on the computer hardware of other companies, that could happen at some point. But first, Apple would need to wean itself off of profits from the hardware division and get used to not controlling the whole product, which would be big hurdles.

[OreoCookie]

Steve loves the quote that a vendor `who loves their software makes their own hardware', it's one of the cornerstones of Apple's (or rather Steve's) philosophies. Apple just doesn't want to make beautiful software, which arguably is the key to usability, but being a perfectionist, also do the hardware. If you look at Apple's portfolio, I dare say they make most of their money with hardware and not software: the iPods and Macs are Apple's cash cows. Now some PC users even buy Macs just because they look nice -- and install Windoze on them.

[greenG4]

I fully agree that part of Apples cornerstone is the seemlessness of the hardware/software. However, many here have argued that Apple is primarily a hardware company that simply designs it's own software to sell the hardware. I guess my entire point is that Steve seems to see it as the opposite. They are a software company who needs to use it's own hardware to ensure that seemless experience. With future inovation that may cease to be the case.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by greenG4 

I fully agree that part of Apples cornerstone is the seemlessness of the hardware/software. However, many here have argued that Apple is primarily a hardware company that simply designs it's own software to sell the hardware. I guess my entire point is that Steve seems to see it as the opposite. They are a software company who needs to use it's own hardware to ensure that seemless experience. With future inovation that may cease to be the case.

They make their money on hardware. If Apple had to rely on its software sales, it would be a tiny company; as a matter of fact it wouldn't exist, because there's nothing else that runs its software. OTOH, if OS X hadn't come out when it did, it's doubtful Apple would be here today. This is the typical chicken/egg conundrum; Apple is both.

[Kerrigan]

Who was it, Woz, who said that Apple makes some of the worst software in the industry?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by greenG4 

I fully agree that part of Apples cornerstone is the seemlessness of the hardware/software. However, many here have argued that Apple is primarily a hardware company that simply designs it's own software to sell the hardware. I guess my entire point is that Steve seems to see it as the opposite. They are a software company who needs to use it's own hardware to ensure that seemless experience. With future inovation that may cease to be the case.

No.

They are a software company in the sense that the Macintosh is a *concept*, not a machine. This is what the fools arguing that the PowerPC was not a REAL Mac because it wasn't 680x0 or because it was made by IBM, or because the REAL Macintosh System only ran in emulation keep missing: The Mac is an IDEA of how computers should be built around the people that use them.

Apple sells the *idea* of the Macintosh, but the only way to make money doing so in the long run is to sell the only boxes it runs on.

[Chuckit]

Aside from all the great points made in this thread about the context that the OP completely ignored, maybe we should drag out the sales figures to illustrate that Apple's core business is hardware. Between the iPod and Macs, that's pretty much all of Apple's profit right there. So, yeah, while the core of their philosophy may be in the software, you're completely out to lunch if you think the hardware is unimportant.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Who was it, Woz, who said that Apple makes some of the worst software in the industry?

Yes, probably because he didn't work on any software.

[E's Lil Theorem]

If Apple wasn't selling the entire enchilda (i.e., not just Mac OS X but also the boxes it runs on), I doubt we would be able to buy Mac OS X or any of their software at current prices. You think Vista is expensive? Well, Mac OS X would be priced up there if Apple's hardware wasn't paying the bills.

[dlefebvre]

Without OS X, iLife or the Pro apps, the Mac would just be a nice looking computer. It's all in the software and the user experience.

[awaspaas]

Sorry, OP, but googlefight disagrees with you:

[Kevin]

pwnt