[besson3c]

Has Abe really been banned there?

Can somebody please tell me why his involvement is worth getting butt hurt over?

For once there was a little action around here. He's crazy, there's no two ways about that, but he's also benign when he's not being beligerent, and for whenever he is being beligerent this is something that can easily be addressed on a case by case basis, no? There is a lot of beligerence and unsavory sorts of discourse in the PWL, there always has been.

If his post volume was a problem (I don't understand how that is a problem, Huddler has an ignore function, right?), why not just ask him to cut back a little? Just what was the problem?

Bring Abe back, and tell the people that are butt hurt to give their butts some TLC so they aren't so easily getting hurt by nothing.

[sek929]

His behavior will only escalate, as it did before, which was the reason he was banned in the first place.

Hopefully he'll just leave again.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by sek929 

His behavior will only escalate, as it did before, which was the reason he was banned in the first place.

Hopefully he'll just leave again.

So what? Why is there is sort of sanctioned form of intensity, and this unsanctioned form? Why is there some sort of special/unique PWL intensity that seems to be unsanctioned? Freudling gets pretty intense about his Apple criticism which I guess is okay because it is not in the PWL, and people like Big Mac and Doofy have gotten really intense in their own ways too, not to mention Rob and whomever else.

I disagree with Rob on his theories that MacNN mods are trying to suppress interesting personalities, because there are kinds of personalities that you simply can't deal with such as Rob when his emotions and temper get the best of him, but we should not be in the business of discriminating against various forms of intensity just because some people don't agree with what is being said, so long as that we can all work with that member.

Abe is harmless. If you don't like his form of crazy, just ignore him. He's not going to get up in your grill and pick needless fights with you or cause needless confrontation like others, he'll just do his thing and leave you free to do yours.

What gives? Just ignore him and be done with it, MacNN does not need to be a good ol' boys club.

[subego]

Was he racking up reports and/or infractions? I obviously couldn't read everything but I only saw one post that was borderline. Was there a bunch of stuff I was missing?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

Was he racking up reports and/or infractions? I obviously couldn't read everything but I only saw one post that was borderline. Was there a bunch of stuff I was missing?

I don't know, but what could he have been infracted for? He did nothing outside of the MacNN rules, and if this is not the case, it certainly wasn't enough for a *permanent* MacNN ban from the PWL. I'm assuming that he is, in fact, banned from there as he states.

[subego]

I don't feel comfortable drawing conclusions without further information.

[sek929]

Abe's sole purpose here is to spew forth his political agenda. Doofy, Big Mac, Rob, etc.... came here to discuss Macs, you know, the actual point of MacNN. I may not agree with Big Mac's politics, but he knows a ton about Macs and tech in general. I'm not going to pretend to be the arbiter of who should be allowed to post here, but I'll say this... Abe adds nothing to these forums, nothing. He consistently belittles everyone and posts nearly exclusively in the political sub-forum. If Abe wants to join a forum to talk just politics I'm sure there are literally thousands out there to satiate that desire. His unhinged nature in the past was why he was banned from the PWL, and I don't see that anything has changed now. Juts in the last week he has started more threads than some members do in years. He vomits bullshit everywhere, and I'm very glad the mods decided to reinstate his PWL ban.

If you miss your buddy I'm sure there are any number of ways for you to converse with each-other about foreign agents and poop.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Abe's sole purpose here is to spew forth his political agenda. Doofy, Big Mac, Rob, etc.... came here to discuss Macs, you know, the actual point of MacNN. I may not agree with Big Mac's politics, but he knows a ton about Macs and tech in general. I'm not going to pretend to be the arbiter of who should be allowed to post here, but I'll say this... Abe adds nothing to these forums, nothing. He consistently belittles everyone and posts nearly exclusively in the political sub-forum. If Abe wants to join a forum to talk just politics I'm sure there are literally thousands out there to satiate that desire. His unhinged nature in the past was why he was banned from the PWL, and I don't see that anything has changed now. Juts in the last week he has started more threads than some members do in years. He vomits bullshit everywhere, and I'm very glad the mods decided to reinstate his PWL ban.

If you miss your buddy I'm sure there are any number of ways for you to converse with each-other about foreign agents and poop.

What about community? There are a ton of members here that rarely post Mac stuff, yet they are considered a part of this community. Why should we make arbitrary decisions about who is a valid and invalid member of this community, especially as it continues to dwindle? If you want to come here and participate in any forum and play by the rules, why should you not be considered a part of this community?

[sek929]

I can't name a single member that resembles Abe's posting history. Can you provide one?

Can Abe answer even simple tech questions? Does he even care about tech? If not, why is he here?

[subego]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I can't name a single member that resembles Abe's posting history. Can you provide one?

Can Abe answer even simple tech questions?  Does he even care about tech?  If not, why is he here?

I imagine it's because he likes it.

If this is an inappropriate line of discussion I'll drop it. This seems really personal. Is there a reason you don't want to put him on ignore?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I can't name a single member that resembles Abe's posting history. Can you provide one?


Can Abe answer even simple tech questions? Does he even care about tech? If not, why is he here?

Can you name one member with my voting history? I hope not, I'm a mess!

Whether Abe can answer simple tech questions is irrelevant, there are many posters that are newbs and barely know their ass from a hole in the ground as far as tech goes, and would be the first to admit this. What motivates Abe is neither here nor there.

What are we creating these sorts of arbitrary criteria and lines in the sand? To me the question is simple:

Either this place is a community that accepts anybody who plays by the rules, or we become a good ol' boys and girls club. I think we have probably already become the latter, but certainly this can be changed.

[sek929]

I already did, and don't worry, ask any question you like.

He was already banned from the PWL for his inflammatory behavior. He would appear to have not changed a thing about his posting style so why then is his current PWL ban reinstatement such a mystery? The dude's a *********. He was a ********* before, he's a ********* now. He can still post non-political things in all the other forums, but something tells me that he won't. I'm sure ConservativeRanting.com's forums would welcome him with open arms.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I can't name a single member that resembles Abe's posting history. Can you provide one?

Can Abe answer even simple tech questions?  Does he even care about tech?  If not, why is he here?

I find the level of political discourse here to be quite interesting. I could participate in the politics alone if there were no tech conversations here. I'm really neither here-nor-there on whether Abe is allowed in the PWL. I find him quite funny, especially with his attempts to convince everyone that, every election season, he is a liberal who's seen the light and converted to conservatism.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What are we creating these sorts of arbitrary criteria and lines in the sand?

It's not arbitrary. Where was this thread when Abe was first banned from the PWL?

The mods saw it fit to ban him before because he is a complete and utter condescending asshole. He belittles everyone who doesn't immediately agree with his incoherent rants.

For the record, I never reported him, or messaged any mod or admin about banning him. I was perfectly happy to ignore his existence. But now that the mods have again decided he cannot be allowed to crap all over the PWL I applaud their decision.

[subego]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I already did, and don't worry, ask any question you like.

He was already banned from the PWL for his inflammatory behavior. He would appear to have not changed a thing about his posting style so why then is his current PWL ban reinstatement such a mystery?  The dude's a *********.  He was a ********* before, he's a ********* now.  He can still post non-political things in all the other forums, but something tells me that he won't.  I'm sure ConservativeRanting.com's forums would welcome him with open arms.

Well, it seems like he made 250 posts and one of them crossed the personal attack line. I don't know how that compares to his behavior back in the old days. I do seem to remember things being a bit more "wild west" in terms of what you could get away with than it is now.

He makes group attacks, but I don't think there's much of a policy on those. I guess they're inflammatory, but they're so hyperbolic they never really ignite me. That's not an argument for anything, just my own experience.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by sek929 

It's not arbitrary. Where was this thread when Abe was first banned from the PWL?

The mods saw it fit to ban him before because he is a complete and utter condescending asshole. He belittles everyone who doesn't immediately agree with his incoherent rants.

For the record, I never reported him, or messaged any mod or admin about banning him. I was perfectly happy to ignore his existence. But now that the mods have again decided he cannot be allowed to crap all over the PWL I applaud their decision.

I don't think they should have banned him before, but at least in that case this was going on for a while, and I would assume that Abe was at least *asked* to do things a little differently?

If Abe was asked to do things differently and he openly defied them, okay, but it's hard to see this playing out in such a short timespan.

[besson3c]

Besides, how hard is it to ignore him at his beligerent worst in exchange for the countless utterly classic non-PWL threads like the original Anna Benson one, or the David Bowie one?

Those threads were bonding.

[subego]

As an aside, I thought about reporting the post which got him banned, but felt it was so borderline, I didn't want to put the mods though the bother of having to make a call on it.

I know I didn't want to make a call on it.

[besson3c]

Whatever guys, this is so dumb.

People feel put out on the internet all the time, whether it is in the form of beligerence, or somebody like Athens or myself feeling ganged up on or mocked, or somebody like Salty being teased, or somebody wanting to come in here in peace having to deal with a pointless confrontation they don't want from somebody like Turtle or Doofy. I'm sure my saying this is dumb pisses some people off. I'm sure I already pissed people off before this post.

It's the internet, this stuff happens. Let's not pretend to be dainty and feel like it is necessary to report every little thing as if the post being reported is some sort of unusual, somewhat unprecedented occurrence. We are all regulars here, and as such we've all grown to have thick skins over the things that offend or annoy us. I'm sure my antics have annoyed people here, I don't mean to sound above the fray. Maybe the report button should be used for real problems, like threats, using the n-word, unwarranted personal attacks, etc.? I don't think I have ever pressed that report button more than a couple of times ever, and I'm here all the freaking time.

I'm not attacking anybody in here about the report button, but if this general attitude of a couple of beligerent posts is enough to tip the scales in being favor of a permanent ban, WTF? I would at least hope that the same people this way are inconsistent in not having wanted Rob to be given his 50th chance?

[besson3c]

Which is worse guys, having your religion mocked (which happens fairly frequently around here), or being told by somebody who is obviously completely out to lunch that they are ignorant about some crazy conspiracy theory, or whatever it was? Like I told somebody, getting too mad at Abe is like getting mad at a baby for pooping (I can say that word now!) - Abe will be Abe, being Abey is just what Abe is: Abey.

[subego]

Actually, neither is great.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

Actually, neither is great.

Agreed, and one is regularly tolerated. Guess which one?

[Wiskedjak]

I just noticed that freudling has also been banned.

[besson3c]

That's pretty lame.

[subego]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Agreed, and one is regularly tolerated. Guess which one?

I'm completely aware of this, and have brought it up on numerous occasions.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I just noticed that freudling has also been banned.

Ha! Good.

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I just noticed that freudling has also been banned.

Ha ha. When did Tim Cook become a mod on this board?

[OreoCookie]

Abe was first banned from the PL six years ago.

The problem was that sub-forum did not work properly on the new Huddler platform, and they were not imported properly. This meant that some people like Spheric Harlot who have requested a PL ban themselves noticed that they were once again able to access the PL. And Abe was able to post, because the only other alternative was to ban him outright from the forums. We had to wait for Huddler to fix the issue, so after that was done, we reinstated the PL bans that we knew of. That includes Abe. Mystery solved.

BTW, we also give the opportunity for people to ask for a subforum ban if they want to. Get 'em while they're hot.

[besson3c]

Oreo: so his being banned had nothing to do with his behavior since his recent return?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Oreo: so his being banned had nothing to do with his behavior since his recent return?

Yes, the rationale behind the move was to reinstate Abe's long-standing sub-forum ban to the PL.

Abe hasn't been unbanned from the PL by, sub-forum bans just didn't work properly on the Huddler-based forum software, and we had to wait for Huddler to fix it. It wasn't an oversight from the staff, but weighing our options (banning Abe until sub forum bans become available vs. letting him post in the PL until the issue is fixed), we decided it was better to give Abe temporary access to the PL. When we learnt of the fix, the sub-forum ban was reinstated.

To my knowledge, he hasn't recently asked the PL mods or admins for his PL ban to be revoked. So our stance hasn't changed.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Yes, the rationale behind the move was to reinstate Abe's long-standing sub-forum ban to the PL.
Abe hasn't been unbanned from the PL by, sub-forum bans just didn't work properly on the Huddler-based forum software, and we had to wait for Huddler to fix it. It wasn't an oversight from the staff, but weighing our options (banning Abe until sub forum bans become available vs. letting him post in the PL until the issue is fixed), we decided it was better to give Abe temporary access to the PL. When we learnt of the fix, the sub-forum ban was reinstated.
To my knowledge, he hasn't recently asked the PL mods or admins for his PL ban to be revoked. So our stance hasn't changed.

I'm sorry for going off half-cocked then...

I'll leave it with Abe to ask for his access back, it sounds like this would at least be a consideration, as well it should be IMHO particularly if he is willing to abide by whatever it is you'd like him to do to annoy people less.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I'm sorry for going off half-cocked then...

No problem, you asked a question and I have no issue giving you an answer.

[reader50]

To correct slightly, if Huddler had imported the subforum bans correctly, we'd have carried them over. But the bans didn't work, and Huddler didn't import them anyway.

The subforum bans were presently fixed, and we found a copy we'd made of the PWL bannees. However, most of them were stale: 4+ years old. I'm inclined to add people upon request. Either their own, or upon local Mod request. So far, we only have Abe and a couple people who have asked. Perhaps Demon or Glenn will put the full list into play.

In the meantime, I haven't been able to track down 2 Market bannees that should have been restored. They were the only subforum bans outside the PWL, for cheating people on deals. Only they were so obvious that we didn't write their names down. They should be banned from Market forever, if we can only recall who they were.

[besson3c]

It seems like you guys may not be operating on the same page though. Cold Warrior wrote this in another thread:



Quote:

This earned you 10 points, but it also convinced us to restore the PWL ban. Huddler fixed it a few days ago.

Has it been decided to restore the ban, as in, if he asks this is the answer he'll get because it has been decided that the ban stands indefinitely based on this particular post, or that once Huddler got this feature working it was decided to let it stand since it would take an effort to review each individual ban, but the mods aren't dead set against having it lifted?

[Cold Warrior]

From what I see, complaints about Abe's behavior aligned with the subforum fix, making it a no-brainier to restore his ban. If he hadn't had two personal attacks in two days – a high count for PWL – I wouldn't have minded seeing him around. Abe should have been more attuned to his behavior given his past here; that he was not indicates he wasn't interested in our rules. That doesn't entice anyone to give the benefit of the doubt or more leeway, but if he feels like approaching the admins for a reprieve, I would not object.

[subego]

While one can question his ability to follow the rules, I think it's unfair to declare him uninterested.

[besson3c]

Abe just needs to control his emotions, and while I agree that those that can't should be temp banned and possibly eventually perm banned so that they don't ruin things for those with emotional control, it should be pointed out that he is far from the only one who struggles this way.

There are those that can't resist ranting, picking fights, misspelling Obama's name as an awfully clever form of mockery, sarcasm, childish stubbornness, etc. The PWL is just overflowing with uncontrolled emotions, as is probably any place like it (e.g. Freudling threads).

While it is easy to come down when somebody goes obviously over the line like Abe did, this is not fundamentally different than those that dance around the forum rules with their emotional displays.

[subego]

Was there a different attack I missed, or did he put two in one post?

[Cold Warrior]

I tried to find them this morning in response to your question, but there was one I infractioned for and another reported but wasn't really a personal attack (possibly a rule 9, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt). There were a couple older posts never reported, but I didn't infract for those either. So I was mistaken about the two in two days. Regardless, his PWL ban predates the move to Huddler, and its reapplication on those grounds is fine by me.

[subego]

Thanks for the info.

[kimosABE]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Yes, the rationale behind the move was to reinstate Abe's long-standing sub-forum ban to the PL.
Abe hasn't been unbanned from the PL by, sub-forum bans just didn't work properly on the Huddler-based forum software, and we had to wait for Huddler to fix it. It wasn't an oversight from the staff, but weighing our options (banning Abe until sub forum bans become available vs. letting him post in the PL until the issue is fixed), we decided it was better to give Abe temporary access to the PL. When we learnt of the fix, the sub-forum ban was reinstated.
To my knowledge, he hasn't recently asked the PL mods or admins for his PL ban to be revoked. So our stance hasn't changed.

The last time I asked for the ban to be revoked, I think it might have been in 2009, IIRC the mod said he'd submit it to the 'legion of merit'...no, wait. He said he'd think about it but his attitude seemed to be one of, 'don't call us, we'll call you.' So, I waited and waited and nothing happened.

So, for the record, to whom should the appeal be addressed and how does one go about it?

I would like to be readmitted to the PWL, please.

[kimosABE]

To the posters here who had nice and or fair and unbiased things to say about me here, I am in your debt.

Thank you all.

[The Final Dakar]

besson, you're a libertarian of moderation – insane and completely unbased in reality.

I came to the conclusion that abe posting during the subforum ban suspension thanks to the Huddler migration was likely a happy coincidence – after all he started a new account when the old one would have worked fine and was his usual evasive self when I asked whether he had been given a reprieve. More likely, he started the new account because this election we're fighting for the survival of our very nation, and he had important information that we all needed to know and that superseded any minor subforum ban.

[The Final Dakar]

BTW, to all those that suggested the ignore feature, it does not function for threads, nor the consistently quoted.

[kimosABE]

There's a line in the old Four Tops song, 'Bernadette," that I'm reminded of here.

But while I live only to hold you,
Some other men, they long to control you.
But how can they control you
Bernadette
When they can not control themselves
Bernadette

Why should I be expected to control myself when some posters here seemingly can't even control themselves without the help of an "ignore" feature or having me banned from MacNN so my opinions or expressions won't offend their eyes?

[sek929]

Don't play the part of the poor victim, it doesn't suit you.

[kimosABE]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Don't play the part of the poor victim, it doesn't suit you.

Yeah, you're right. I just felt I should at least TRY to defend myself here rather than relying on the kindness of others.

I never chit chat with mods or admins. Not that I dislike them or anything. I just feel it's more difficult to be friends with them because of the nature of our roles here. So, I'm at a disadvantage when it comes to politicking the powers behind the scenes.

I've suffered in silence rather than whine like a little girl when I see some posters here banned and forgiven repeatedly...that is, over and over again showing up in the forums where they'd been banned.

So, here we have an assumption that I should be expected to act like an adult, but my immature tormentor needs the help of technology and the interference of the mods and admins in order to soothe his ruffled sensitivities from my 'harmful' expressions.

It all seems too bizarre to comprehend.

I'm willing to apologize to anyone I may have inadvertently offended and promise not to have any communication with them in the future as long as they promise to do the same.

And I won't even complain if they require extra help from 'ignore' buttons or mods and admins to live up to their end of the bargain.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

besson, you're a libertarian of moderation – insane and completely unbased in reality.
I came to the conclusion that abe posting during the subforum ban suspension thanks to the Huddler migration was likely a happy coincidence – after all he started a new account when the old one would have worked fine and was his usual evasive self when I asked whether he had been given a reprieve. More likely, he started the new account because this election we're fighting for the survival of our very nation, and he had important information that we all needed to know and that superseded any minor subforum ban.

My ideas of internet utopia are insane and completely unbased in reality, you are right, but doing things the other way always seems to have limited and predictable outcomes, which is why I like to try to set the bar higher.

[The Final Dakar]

How are your forums doing, again?

[kimosABE]

Uh, will someone please tell me how long I should expect to wait for an answer to my request for reinstatement?