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Car Talk (Page 9)
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 2, 2016, 04:41 PM
 
The new TG was legitimately awful, worse-than-5th-Gear level of awful. Extra Gear was much better.
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jun 2, 2016, 10:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
There seems to be genuine motivation to test drive the Juke.

The plan is to rent a GTI for the trip out... give it a little unfair competition.
You mentioned the Mazda CX-3 earlier......it's such a better vehicle in I think every way
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subego  (op)
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Jun 3, 2016, 12:03 AM
 
That's the problem. It's too good of a car. Nobody sells theirs.

At least not the up-engined model. There's only one or two for sale around here. This is in contrast to the hundreds of options available for a base model.

Having driven the base model myself, I can say the engine fails in the "sporty" department.
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 3, 2016, 12:46 AM
 
Is there an official term for what I'm using "up-engined" to describe?
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Jun 3, 2016, 09:53 PM
 
I feel you're talking about the Mazda 3? The CX-3 looks like the Juke.
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Jun 3, 2016, 10:39 PM
 
Cool docco on the making of the Alfa 4c, for anyone who's interested....



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subego  (op)
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Jun 4, 2016, 11:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I feel you're talking about the Mazda 3? The CX-3 looks like the Juke.
Huh?
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 5, 2016, 03:39 PM
 
I'm talking about the "base model" Mazda3, which has 150ish horses, vs. the "up-engined" Mazda3, which has 180ish horses.

Same car, bigger engine.

My point is you can find base model Mazda3s all over the place. There would be 100 for her to choose from.

The one with the bigger engine? There are two options, and they both have high mileage.

IOW, the Mazda3 with the bigger engine too good a car. People aren't inclined to get rid of them.


I was curious if there's a better term for what I'm using "up-engined" to describe.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 5, 2016, 03:56 PM
 
180hp is still going to feel underpowered with a car that weighs >3000lbs, what's worse is the 150ft/lb of torque, though. Add a 2nd passenger and a load of groceries and it'll have issues in regular traffic.
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subego  (op)
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Jun 5, 2016, 04:23 PM
 
Well, if the Mazda3 was going to work at all, it seemed like the "up-engined" model was the only possibility.

I drove one with the base engine and give it low marks in the sporty department. Otherwise, it was really nice.
     
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Jun 5, 2016, 07:34 PM
 




The white balance is off, and really doesn't do the color justice.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Jun 5, 2016, 10:16 PM
 
I said the Mazda CX-3. That is a completely different car...it is a compact SUV, similar to the Juke. I'm sure you mentioned it earlier in this thread.

Has she changed her price range? The mileage in the 3 Sport is terrible.
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subego  (op)
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Jun 6, 2016, 08:00 AM
 
You know, I misread things a few posts back. My apologies.

She's had some pretty severe price creep. The cars she wants to test drive are now solidly in the $15K range.

Under most circumstances I'd tell her that was ridiculously irresponsible, but she does have a decent support system (family, etc.), just lost her dog, lost her job, and she's pushing 40 without ever having had her own car.

She needs to live a little right now.
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 6, 2016, 09:19 AM
 
To answer the CX-3 question... too new.

If she's going to drop that kind of coin she can get a GTI and have money left over.
     
turtle777
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Jun 6, 2016, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
To answer the CX-3 question... too new.

If she's going to drop that kind of coin she can get a GTI and have money left over.
The CX-3 with standard engine is a complete slug.

GTI is the much more fun ride.

-t
     
Laminar
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Jun 6, 2016, 04:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Add a 2nd passenger and a load of groceries and it'll have issues in regular traffic.
What? No won't.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 6, 2016, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
What? No won't.
What are saying?
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jun 6, 2016, 10:22 PM
 
Makes sense about the price range of the CX-3 - it's a newer vehicle. (But nicer in every way than the Juke except price.)

I'm with Lam on the power matter. My Accord is a pretty large sedan with just 189hp (182ft-lb) four-banger......it's not meant to light anyone's hair on fire, but I've never ever "had issues" in traffic with several people aboard, and I'm generally considered to be an aggressive driver - it'll do whatever I need it to short of burn rubber in traffic. There is zero chance the 3 Sport will have issues anywhere short of actively breaking the law.

That said, I'm still not a fan of the idea. Call me too practical, but I think a cheap used compact ~150-hp model in good condition and maybe a couple years of warranty left (on an extended plan) should be the way to go.
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Jun 6, 2016, 11:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I'm with Lam on the power matter. My Accord is a pretty large sedan with just 189hp (182ft-lb) four-banger......it's not meant to light anyone's hair on fire, but I've never ever "had issues" in traffic with several people aboard, and I'm generally considered to be an aggressive driver - it'll do whatever I need it to short of burn rubber in traffic. There is zero chance the 3 Sport will have issues anywhere short of actively breaking the law.
I find it odd to think that a 180 horsepower car, even fully loaded with passengers and luggage, is supposed to have trouble keeping up with traffic. Outside of America (e. g. in Europe and Japan) cars usually don't have anywhere near 180 hp, and they still do fine on the Autobahn. Just don't pretend it's a sports car and you'll be fine.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 7, 2016, 02:42 AM
 
Pretty sure she wanted a "sporty" car, and 150ft/lbs w/ 3 people and a load of groceries will feel weak. But hey, drive what you want, that's your business.
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jun 7, 2016, 10:15 AM
 
That feels like a completely unnecessary comment. We're talking about a compact car with 180 horses that comfortably seats 4 people for less than $15,000. What's your solution? Another old expensive model with high and inevitable repair costs, like the BMW 3 series or Golf R? Hell, the Fiat 500 Abarth you plugged has a bit more torque with a few less horses, but it won't even fit 3 people + groceries so it's a total wash.

If the Mazda 3 Sport isn't enough for you at this price range, then you're making significant trade offs elsewhere, end of story.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 7, 2016, 11:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
That feels like a completely unnecessary comment.
...

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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jun 7, 2016, 03:11 PM
 
I just figured we were actually trying to help Subego.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 7, 2016, 04:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I just figured we were actually trying to help Subego.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Pretty sure she wanted a "sporty" car ...
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jun 7, 2016, 05:47 PM
 
Let me rephrase again - in her price range, what is a sportier car than the Mazda3 Sport when carrying two or more passengers and a load of groceries?

I'm not saying it doesn't exist - I'm saying it's a rather pointless comment without providing an alternative.
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subego  (op)
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Jun 7, 2016, 05:55 PM
 
Hopefully a Juke.
     
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Jun 8, 2016, 09:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I'm not saying it doesn't exist - I'm saying it's a rather pointless comment without providing an alternative.
I think it's also a matter of understanding the realities here: proper sports cars have a harsher ride, less ground clearance and other compromises. Many people who want a sports car are better served with a GT car. And many people others want something practical in the end.
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jun 11, 2016, 09:23 PM
 
Oh, I agree. I mentioned earlier that I generally regret my decision to get a manual......it's fantastic about 15% of the time, but the rest of the time I'm driving in city traffic while trying to balance my morning coffee, or trying to finagle pedals while reaching for my maniac child as she squirts water over the upholstery.

Next time I'll get a nice CVT or DSG with shifters for when I want to feel cool.
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Jun 11, 2016, 11:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Oh, I agree. I mentioned earlier that I generally regret my decision to get a manual......it's fantastic about 15% of the time, but the rest of the time I'm driving in city traffic while trying to balance my morning coffee, or trying to finagle pedals while reaching for my maniac child as she squirts water over the upholstery.
My brother said the same thing: he hated automatic transmissions before driving tens of thousands of kilometers for work every year. And that's the appeal of cars like the Golf R/GTI or the BMW M5: they are normal cars with occasional sports car performance, they square the circle — which is why they are so iconic.
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subego  (op)
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Jun 12, 2016, 01:42 PM
 
Even though she's moving towards the newish crossovers. I can't turn off the looking at cars.

The ones which jump out at me are these "sporty" cars from the aughts apparently no one makes any more.

Like, say, a Mazda RX-8.

Anything horrible about this specific car? I kinda think she may enjoy it more than a Juke.

Any general commentary on this type of sports car and why it's gone? I was complaining about how Mitsubishi used to have one, it was a riot to drive, and now it's gone, too.
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 12, 2016, 01:52 PM
 


For example, this seems like it would be fun.

Sure, some obvious downsides, but I'm guessing it's sporty.
     
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Jun 12, 2016, 02:00 PM
 
Mpg isn't too hot. My friend thought he had found the mythical good one. Until the rotor tips went kablooey
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 12, 2016, 02:04 PM
 
I assumed that was one of the reasons they disappeared. Not cheap to feed.

Of course, gas is cheap again.

My biggest concerns are something going kablooey, as you mentioned, and it may be uncomfortable, as shortcut mentioned.
     
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Jun 12, 2016, 02:35 PM
 
Rotary engines are... interesting. Honestly, for most people they're not a great solution, it's like a having the performance and reliability of a Ford but with the maintenance cost of a Porsche. Output per liter is amazing, the engine is the size of a breadbox, but they use a lot of oil, are quite inefficient, and if you aren't diligent with service they'll grenade themselves at the worst times. I love my Wankels and have found them to be wonderful cars, but they do need special attention.
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subego  (op)
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Jun 12, 2016, 02:47 PM
 
Is it just expensive, or is it a queen, too?

How would an ignorant civilian provide special attention? Bring it in to get looked over every X amount of miles?
     
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Jun 12, 2016, 02:58 PM
 
I would say a wankel rotary engine for an average driver is a terrible decision. That said, the RX7-R1 is pretty much the coolest car I've ever driven
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 12, 2016, 03:02 PM
 
"Average" meaning someone who wouldn't know a wankel from a wanker?
     
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Jun 12, 2016, 03:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
"Average" meaning someone who wouldn't know a wankel from a wanker?
Wacist

-t
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 12, 2016, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
"Average" meaning someone who wouldn't know a wankel from a wanker?
Yeah, those people. As long as you keep to the service schedule they're fine, if more costly than traditional ICEs (because everything for them costs more and only specialized mechanics know how to work on Wankels). You'll have to start thinking of oil as a slowly depleting consumable, instead of just something that's changed at a specific interval.
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subego  (op)
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Jun 12, 2016, 03:45 PM
 
All good info! Thanks to all!

I perhaps foolishly passed it along to her without checking here first. I think I can gently let her down with the idea she probably doesn't want the chore of maintaining it.

I also realized it would be no fun for our annual SNOWMAGEDDON.

It does show she can be vectored away from the Juke, though.
     
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Jun 12, 2016, 04:27 PM
 
I will say one thing for the RX-8, though, the back doors have a very high cool factor.
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Jun 12, 2016, 09:23 PM
 
Aren't they RWD? A RWD vehicle would be absolutely insane as a daily driver in your winters.

Edit: missed your Snowmageddon comment above. I think you're just starting to get a bit crazy and stupid now. That car is wonderful fun but a useless POS for winter driving.

Are we sure you're not simply living vicariously through this purchase? You appear to be pushing terribly hard for the most impractical solution, at least for a man who just ditched his Bimmer for a cargo van.
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turtle777
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Jun 12, 2016, 09:36 PM
 
Nah, RWD in Chicago is not as bad as it sounds.

Sure, you need to get dedicated winter tires. Modern electronics do a pretty good job controlling the wheels.

That being said, these days, most new BMW, Audi or Mercedes are AWD anyways.

-t
     
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Jun 12, 2016, 10:07 PM
 
Well you should get winter tires no matter what drive system you have. I guess it's terribly flat there which helps, but pretty much every element of winter driving is made worse with RWD so.....from a safety and enjoyability perspective it won't be ideal at all.
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turtle777
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Jun 12, 2016, 11:15 PM
 
Sure, not ideal. My wife's A4 Quattro with snow tires is a snow mobile compared to the BMW.

But it really only matters if the roads are not cleared. Which is rare in Chicago, they are pretty good at removing snow quickly.

And yes, it's flat. That makes a big difference.

-t
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 13, 2016, 07:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Aren't they RWD? A RWD vehicle would be absolutely insane as a daily driver in your winters.

Edit: missed your Snowmageddon comment above. I think you're just starting to get a bit crazy and stupid now. That car is wonderful fun but a useless POS for winter driving.

Are we sure you're not simply living vicariously through this purchase? You appear to be pushing terribly hard for the most impractical solution, at least for a man who just ditched his Bimmer for a cargo van.
I had just made a post saying the recommendation was foolish, and I'm pleased I can let her down easy.

WTF, man?
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 13, 2016, 07:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
But it really only matters if the roads are not cleared. Which is rare in Chicago, they are pretty good at removing snow quickly.
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jun 13, 2016, 10:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I had just made a post saying the recommendation was foolish, and I'm pleased I can let her down easy.

WTF, man?
It's the fact that you even bothered to go there at all......I think it's a car that checks few of your boxes.

It's not overly comfy for long rides, it's got a small trunk (although the backseat isn't horrendous and I wish more coupes would copy the 4-door layout), it's RWD (as turtle noted probably okay in flat Chicago with winter tires, careful driving and little snow cover....still not as easy or safe as FWD/AWD), it's expensive and finicky to maintain, it's relatively expensive because it was a niche car, it's absolutely horrendous with fuel economy (literally horrendous), and to top it all off it's got mediocre low-end torque so that it doesn't even feel like an overly sporty ride relative to the HP output. (It's not much different the same as the Mazda3 Sport in that respect.....which is to say fine for a commuter car with pep, but lacking if you're making practical trade-offs to get an actual sporty car with handling, etc. Similar to the Subaru BRZ - Toyota FRS in that respect.)

It's a bit of an all-over-the-map suggestion. I guess Shaddim correctly alluded to this earlier in the thread, but it's an "I'm not actually serious" pick - like we're just looking through a list of all cars and pointing to whatever one looks interesting.

I'm probably taking this too seriously, I know. But if someone wants a car, they should write down what it must have, and then what it could have, and then just pick from the results - same as house hunting. Once you go start to go outside the box, it just becomes a real time suck.

To be clear - I like the RX-8 haha! It's a great sporty-car choice for anyone who is obsessive about maintaining and servicing, and doesn't have an overly tight budget or care about the above list....
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Jun 13, 2016, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Mmmph... hnmm... BWAHAHAHAHA!
The inner city slums might be different than the burbs.

-t
     
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Jun 13, 2016, 11:00 AM
 
In subego's defense, I think she's the one looking through listings and telling him which ones she finds visually appealing.
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