[typoon]

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/l...s/11575912.htm

Mother's call gets son in hot water

BY ANGELIQUE SOENARIE

Staff Writer

Kevin Francois gave up his lunch break to talk to his mother, but it ended up costing him the rest of the school year.

Francois, a junior at Spencer High School in Columbus, was suspended for disorderly conduct Wednesday after he was told to give up his cell phone at lunch while talking to his mother who is deployed in Iraq, he said.

His mother, Sgt. 1st Class Monique Bates, left in January for a one-year tour and serves with the 203rd Forward Support Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division.

"This is our first time separated like this," said Francois, 17, on Thursday.

Bates came to Fort Benning with her son from Hunter Army Airfield in Savannah, Ga. She enrolled him at Spencer in August. Since her deployment overseas, Francois, whose father was killed when he was 5 years old, lives with a guardian who has five children in Columbus.

The incident happened when Francois received a call from his mother at 12:30 p.m., which he said was his lunch break. Francois said he went outside the school building to get a better reception when his mother called. A teacher who saw Francois on his phone told him to get off the phone. But he didn't.

According to the Muscogee County School District Board of Education's policy, students are allowed to have cell phones in school, but cannot use them during school hours.

"They are really allowed to have those cell phones so that after band or after chorus or after the debate and practices are over they have to coordinate with the parents," said Alfred Parham, assistant principal at Spencer. "They're not supposed to use them for conversating back and forth during school because if they were allowed to do that, they could be text messaging each other for test questions."

Francois said he told the teacher, "This is my mom in Iraq. I'm not about to hang up on my mom."

Francois said the teacher tried to take the phone, causing it to hang up.

The student said he then went with the teacher to the school's office where he surrendered his phone. His mother called again at 12:37 p.m. and left a message scolding her son about hanging up and telling him to answer the phone when she calls.

Control issue

Parham said the teen's suspension was based on his reaction when he was asked to give up the cell phone and told about the school's cell phone policy.

"Kevin got defiant and disorderly with Mr. Turner and another assistant principal," Parham said Thursday. "He got defiant with me. He refused to leave Mr. Turner's office. When a kid becomes out of control like that they can either be arrested or suspended for 10 days. Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days."

Wendall Turner is another assistant principal at Spencer.

Parham said the student used profanity when he was taken into the office. He said he tried to work out something with the student. But Francois said he was too frustrated he couldn't answer the phone when his mother called him the second time.

"I even asked Kevin, 'You know we can try to work something out to where if your mother wants to call you she can call you at the school,'" Parham said. "So we've tried to work with Kevin and we're going to continue to try to work with Kevin and his mother and his relatives. In the course of good order and discipline, we have to abide by our policy."

Francois admitted he was partially at fault for his behavior but said he should have been allowed to talk to his mother.

"I was mad at the time, but I feel now maybe I should've went about it differently," he said. "Maybe I should've just waited outside to pick up the phone. But I don't I feel I should've changed any of my actions. I feel I was right by not hanging up the phone."

For Francois, he said he gets to hear from his mother once a month, and phone calls vary depending on when she can use the phone in Iraq. Francois said his mother calls as late as 1 a.m. to 3 a.m. and tries to catch him during hours he's awake. He said the phone call Wednesday was the first time she called him while he was at school.

Francois, who said he's been struggling with his grades in school, wants to go back to school and finish the rest of his year. He fears he may have pay for summer school because of his punishment.

"My grades had been low, but I was bringing them up. My grades were coming back up. On one of my report cards I had like a 'F' in one of my classes, but I brought it back up to a low 'C.' This just brought me all the way down."

[SVass]

A liberal thinks that the school should relent and should abolish all absolute rules. Emergency calls and special events can be worked around. An immature youngster can be punished in a minor way for using "vulgar" language to his teachers. Have him write a research paper after school on the origin of the words that he used . (I assume that the article's use of the word profanity is an error.) The original teacher may actually have violated the law in attempting to take the phone and a student may defend himself. No idiot who believes in absolute rules should be placed in charge of anything. sam

[Eriamjh]

Today's techers are a**holes and always "apply the rules" regardless of the situation. They don't excercise the "thought" that they are supposed to be teaching young children. Zero tolerance policies are one way schools think they can avoid conflicts. Instead, they handle most situations poorly and few properly.

Then they punish the kid for his behavior when the school was not considering the situation. Again, zero tolerance. What if that was someone calling him to say his mother was dead? The school would have punished him for his reaction.

[OreoCookie]

Also, the punishment seems to be far out of proportion compared to what he did. But unfortunately, it complies with my experience as well. People got into trouble, because they kissed ... even after school and off school property (there was a 7/11 across the street).

[dcmacdaddy]

I've got to agree with the school on this one. They made it clear that they would make special arrangements for him to receive a special phone call from his mother. So, the kid should have let them know she was calling--He had to know ahead of time the call was coming--and he could have been excused from class and gone someplace private to talk to his mom. Instead the kid tries to break the rules and then puts up a fight when he gets caught. No good in my book. He could play by the rules AND get special treatment at the same time--in the form of special privileges for speaking with his mom.

[BoomStick]

I see a stupid transplant liberal pig yankee teacher getting a whoopin from a mom soldier when she gets back.

[OreoCookie]

In my experience, the conservative teachers were stricter ...

[PacHead]

Absolutely disgusting. Those teachers were probably Kerry voters.

4340 Victory Drive
Columbus, GA 31903

Phone: 706-685-7652
Fax: 706-685-7708

[email protected]

[NYCFarmboy]

this shows the idiocy of those in charge of that school.

[von Wrangell]

Ridiculous. His mom is away doing her duty(doesn't matter if you agree with the war or not).

That school really needs to get new people in charge. Poor kid

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

I've got to agree with the school on this one. They made it clear that they would make special arrangements for him to receive a special phone call from his mother. So, the kid should have let them know she was calling--He had to know ahead of time the call was coming--and he could have been excused from class and gone someplace private to talk to his mom. Instead the kid tries to break the rules and then puts up a fight when he gets caught. No good in my book. He could play by the rules AND get special treatment at the same time--in the form of special privileges for speaking with his mom.

It sounded to me like neither he nor his mother knew ahead of time when she would be calling. I don't think they could have made an arrangement in advance unless that arangement was for him to be able to take calls from his mother whenever they happened to come in.

He did break the rules, and I think there should be consequences for that, but I think a 10-day suspension for taking a call from his mother whom he hasn't seen in a long time and won't be able to see again for a long time is a bit much. Especially since he's trying to improve his grades and actually making progress.

Like he said, this punishment is just going to make it harder for him to be a good student. It's moronic. Suspesions/expulsions should be reserved for students who are disruptive of the learning process for others. Kids who are genuinely trying and want to improve are only hurt by these sorts of things. Give him a week of detension or something, but don't undermine his efforts to actually learn.

[typoon]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

It sounded to me like neither he nor his mother knew ahead of time when she would be calling. I don't think they could have made an arrangement in advance unless that arangement was for him to be able to take calls from his mother whenever they happened to come in.

He did break the rules, and I think there should be consequences for that, but I think a 10-day suspension for taking a call from his mother whom he hasn't seen in a long time and won't be able to see again for a long time is a bit much. Especially since he's trying to improve his grades and actually making progress.

Like he said, this punishment is just going to make it harder for him to be a good student. It's moronic. Suspesions/expulsions should be reserved for students who are disruptive of the learning process for others. Kids who are genuinely trying and want to improve are only hurt by these sorts of things. Give him a week of detension or something, but don't undermine his efforts to actually learn.

I agree, or give him some type of paper to write. Maybe about what his mother does in the military if he knows, or maybe some other topic.

[beb]

I've worked in K-12 and higher education for over a decade. In this child's case, he should've been given after-school detention for his use of profanity. The Assistant Principals over-stepped their authority. Education does not have dominion over family matters especially in cases such as this.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

I've got to agree with the school on this one. They made it clear that they would make special arrangements for him to receive a special phone call from his mother. So, the kid should have let them know she was calling--He had to know ahead of time the call was coming--and he could have been excused from class and gone someplace private to talk to his mom. Instead the kid tries to break the rules and then puts up a fight when he gets caught. No good in my book. He could play by the rules AND get special treatment at the same time--in the form of special privileges for speaking with his mom.

dc... you would not by chance be a bureaucrat would you?

<insert reference to "Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy">

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by BoomStick

I see a stupid transplant liberal pig yankee teacher getting a whoopin from a mom soldier when she gets back.

I see a stupid, ignorant, biased, and bigoted conservative who, once again, ignores the evidence and jumps to the conclusion that it's always the liberals' faults. Read the article again and try not to let "emphasis" get in the way.

[typoon]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I see a stupid, ignorant, biased, and bigoted conservative who, once again, ignores the evidence and jumps to the conclusion that it's always the liberals' faults. Read the article again and try not to let "emphasis" get in the way.

I think that they scoool trying to accomadate the student is stupid. firstly he doesn't know when his mom will be able to call, and second she might not have a long time on the phone. so by the time the "informed the student" and he got down to the office or where ever to talk to his mom she might have to hang up with him. The cell phone is the best option. You would assume the school would make sometype of exception or something for this student or others in certain situations.

why is it that when democrats/liberals attack a consercative they always use pull out the bigot word or homophobe or that we are trying to kill old people or starve children I'm sure there are better terms. How is he bing biggotted by the way?

[BoomStick]

It's always the vile, beligerant northern liberals that find ANY excuse to inconvience our heroic soldiers at any cost.

It's only logical that the teacher is a transplant liberal yankee pig because a conservative southern saint would have let the child talk with his heroic mother.

I really hope the mother kicks the teacher's @ss upon her return.

[11011001]

I hated High School because of the authoritarian rule of the teachers. It made me want to do everything I could to spite them. Gah..

Poor kid.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by typoon

I think that they scoool trying to accomadate the student is stupid. firstly he doesn't know when his mom will be able to call, and second she might not have a long time on the phone. so by the time the "informed the student" and he got down to the office or where ever to talk to his mom she might have to hang up with him. The cell phone is the best option. You would assume the school would make sometype of exception or something for this student or others in certain situations.

Kevin wasn't suspended for talking to his mom on the phone. "When a kid becomes out of control like that they can ... be arrested..." What kind of conduct warrants an arrest? Think about that. It wasn't a simple argument, that kid did something else. "Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days." I think that's pretty considerate of them. Instead of throwing his ass in juvi, they suspended him for 10 days.

Sounds to me like the kid is a real assh*le, and the school is going at great lengths to accommodate him.

why is it that when democrats/liberals attack a consercative they always use pull out the bigot word or homophobe or that we are trying to kill old people or starve children I'm sure there are better terms. How is he bing biggotted by the way?

You automatically stereotype the situation as something at fault with the liberal community because you have something against them. That's bigotry.

[typoon]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Kevin wasn't suspended for talking to his mom on the phone. "When a kid becomes out of control like that they can ... be arrested..." What kind of conduct warrants an arrest? Think about that. It wasn't a simple argument, that kid did something else. "Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days." I think that's pretty considerate of them. Instead of throwing his ass in juvi, they suspended him for 10 days.

Sounds to me like the kid is a real assh*le, and the school is going at great lengths to accommodate him.



You automatically stereotype the situation as something at fault with the liberal community because you have something against them. That's bigotry.

I'm not saying he wasn't at fault either I'm just saying they could have come up with something better than suspending him. The student shouldn't have gotten beligerent towards the teacher but when the teacher wanted to take his phone and he told them that he was talking to his mom I'm going to assume that the school KNEW that his mom was in Iraq and in this case the teacher should have made an exception and when he was done the school could have tried to work something out with him.

You automatically stereotype the situation as something at fault with the liberal community because you have something against them. That's bigotry.

I wasn't stereotyping the situation at all. I was just making a comment about your response to Broomstick. Which your response to him is the same that every democrat/liberal makes about conservative/republicans.

[typoon]

Darn Double post

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by typoon

I'm not saying he wasn't at fault either I'm just saying they could have come up with something better than suspending him. The student shouldn't have gotten beligerent towards the teacher but when the teacher wanted to take his phone and he told them that he was talking to his mom I'm going to assume that the school KNEW that his mom was in Iraq and in this case the teacher should have made an exception and when he was done the school could have tried to work something out with him.[/b]

They DID work something out with him. But for his other actions, he was suspended for them. I just don't like the conservative spin on it.

I wasn't stereotyping the situation at all. I was just making a comment about your response to Broomstick. Which your response to him is the same that every democrat/liberal makes about conservative/republicans.

I'm not a liberal Democrat, but I see what you're saying. I do spout off when either side just runs about saying "i told you so" without understanding what's going on in the first place.

[demograph68]

Originally Posted by BoomStick

It's always the vile, beligerant northern liberals that find ANY excuse to inconvience our heroic soldiers at any cost.

It's only logical that the teacher is a transplant liberal yankee pig because a conservative southern saint would have let the child talk with his heroic mother.

I really hope the mother kicks the teacher's @ss upon her return.

If you say so.

[iLikebeer]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Kevin wasn't suspended for talking to his mom on the phone. "When a kid becomes out of control like that they can ... be arrested..." What kind of conduct warrants an arrest? Think about that. It wasn't a simple argument, that kid did something else. "Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days." I think that's pretty considerate of them. Instead of throwing his ass in juvi, they suspended him for 10 days.

Sounds to me like the kid is a real assh*le, and the school is going at great lengths to accommodate him.

Sounds to me like the teacher was assaulting the student. The phone was hung up when the teacher tried to take the phone away. The kid shouldn't even be punished. Who here really wouldn't start cursing at a teacher, who is probably bigger and stronger, if they tried to take away your phone while you were taking your monthly call from your mother or father away at war who could be killed at any time. If the student gets suspended, so should the teacher.

What's really messed up is that they wouldn't let him take the 2nd call. You'd think they would at least like to talk to his mother if he did something bad enough to possibly be arrested. He should have kicked the teacher in the nuts and walked away, calling the police himself after he finished talking to his mom. The police probably would have been on his side.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

Sounds to me like the teacher was assaulting the student. The phone was hung up when the teacher tried to take the phone away. The kid shouldn't even be punished. Who here really wouldn't start cursing at a teacher, who is probably bigger and stronger, if they tried to take away your phone while you were taking your monthly call from your mother or father away at war who could be killed at any time. If the student gets suspended, so should the teacher.

What's really messed up is that they wouldn't let him take the 2nd call. You'd think they would at least like to talk to his mother if he did something bad enough to possibly be arrested. He should have kicked the teacher in the nuts and walked away, calling the police himself after he finished talking to his mom. The police probably would have been on his side.

I agree, myself I would've physically assaulted the teacher who had stolen my phone inorder to get it back, if the person on the other line was my parent calling from a warzone.

[jbartone]

I say we send the teachers and the principals all off to Iraq. Poor boy

[alphasubzero949]

Here's the school's spin on this...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/05...raq/index.html

[misc]

A swift kick in the jimmies to the teacher and the principal.

No one in their right mind could tell me that they would not have done the exact same thing if they were in that situation... The school warrents a call from each and every one of us.



I got a detention for saying the f-word outside during a firedrill. It wasn't even directed at anyone. The same teacher caught a bunch of kids smoking in the bathroom and turned a blind eye a few days ago. What's up with that?

Teachers like to abuse their power and the more you stand up for what you believe in the harder the punishment.

Flame away.

[OreoCookie]

I got detention for saying `hell' (I said what the hell). After class I got asked if I wanted to excuse myself and I didn't even know what I did wrong.

And another one from the same teacher for being late for class (coz my locker was on the opposite end of the school).

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

It sounded to me like neither he nor his mother knew ahead of time when she would be calling. I don't think they could have made an arrangement in advance unless that arangement was for him to be able to take calls from his mother whenever they happened to come in.

He did break the rules, and I think there should be consequences for that, but I think a 10-day suspension for taking a call from his mother whom he hasn't seen in a long time and won't be able to see again for a long time is a bit much. Especially since he's trying to improve his grades and actually making progress.

Like he said, this punishment is just going to make it harder for him to be a good student. It's moronic. Suspesions/expulsions should be reserved for students who are disruptive of the learning process for others. Kids who are genuinely trying and want to improve are only hurt by these sorts of things. Give him a week of detension or something, but don't undermine his efforts to actually learn.

Exactly. There is no reason to assume that she knew in advance when she could call her son. She's a soldier in a combat zone, not a vacationer at a resort. She also might never come back. Did anybody think about that?

This school is close to Fort Benning, Georgia -- the home of the Infantry. It's in the middle of one of the largest military communities in the country. It is going to catch hell for this rigid inability to use common sense and compassion. And rightly so.

[Athens]

For those defending the kid, READ. The only thing stupid is the schools no cell phone policy, the kid was on his lunch, that said, the kid if he had told the teacher it was a very important long distance call from his mom im sure everything would have been fine, but this stupid kid decided to give lip and other crap which is what got him in hot water. Nuff said.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Athens

For those defending the kid, READ. The only thing stupid is the schools no cell phone policy, the kid was on his lunch, that said, the kid if he had told the teacher it was a very important long distance call from his mom im sure everything would have been fine, but this stupid kid decided to give lip and other crap which is what got him in hot water. Nuff said.

We did read:

Francois said he told the teacher, "This is my mom in Iraq. I'm not about to hang up on my mom."

Francois said the teacher tried to take the phone, causing it to hang up.

The student said he then went with the teacher to the school's office where he surrendered his phone. His mother called again at 12:37 p.m. and left a message scolding her son about hanging up and telling him to answer the phone when she calls.

Control issue

Parham said the teen's suspension was based on his reaction when he was asked to give up the cell phone and told about the school's cell phone policy.

"Kevin got defiant and disorderly with Mr. Turner and another assistant principal," Parham said Thursday. "He got defiant with me. He refused to leave Mr. Turner's office. When a kid becomes out of control like that they can either be arrested or suspended for 10 days. Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days."

It's he said she said. I don't know why you would believe the teacher over the kid, but I personally find it hard to believe he never said anything about the call being from Iraq. Most likely he did, and the teacher overreacted because they perceived him as being "defiant." Small minded people often get overly upset if they think that their authority is being challenged. It sounds to me like they focussed on the "defiance" and the "control issue" and didn't stop, breathe, think, and use some common sense.

The fact that they even considered arrest for something so petty just says it all to me. They overreacted. Badly.

[Athens]

hum the story I read on CNN was different.

http://us.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/05/...raq/index.html

(CNN) -- A Columbus, Georgia, high school student has been suspended for 10 days after he became defiant when a teacher interrupted a cell phone conversation with his mother, who is stationed in Iraq, a school district official said Friday.

"He became very belligerent and very threatening to her" when asked to turn over the phone, Phillips said.

The teen, whom Muscogee County School District Superintendent John Phillips Jr., wouldn't name, did not tell the teacher he was talking to his mother in Iraq.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Athens

hum the story I read on CNN was different.

http://us.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/05/...raq/index.html

As I said, he said, she said. But I don't believe for a second that he never once mentioned the nature of the call, the school's defensive spin notwithstanding. They overreacted.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by misc

Teachers like to abuse their power and the more you stand up for what you believe in the harder the punishment.

Flame away.

I agree. A lot of teachers have large egos as well.

She was probably upset that he wasn't paying full attention to her great teaching efforts, and got offended.

[Athens]

i dont know, I've done work at a high school fixing there computers, and i've seen students get mouthy just for the sake of it. To bad there wasent any cameras to catch it on video, and mics for the sound.

[Luca Rescigno]

Yeah, high school kids can be real assholes. On the other hand, I've encountered my share of power-tripping teachers who enforce the rules just for the sake of enforcing them. They're too strict... maybe because they're bitter and have emotional problems, maybe because they get annoyed with immature students, or maybe because they're brown-nosing or afraid that they will be reprimanded for not being unthinking pawns of the principal.

Schools are just ridiculous these days. Everyone is extremely uptight... the administrators are afraid of retaliation from paranoid parents, so they order the teachers around and come up with ridiculously strict disciplinary policies. The teachers are afraid of being axed from their always-precarious jobs if they deviate, so they go along with such policies. Then when the students act up and express frustration with school, their parents wonder what's going on to cause all this.

Everyone involved just needs to settle down and take a chill pill. I think the student should get an apology from the school and be allowed to return from suspension. As several people have said, his mom's not on vacation, she's a soldier at war. She calls when she can, and if that happens to be during school hours, so be it. All the school officials must be so freakin' paranoid of any deviation from their preset course for students to take that things like this really ruffle their feathers. Well, f*ck them. They need to learn flexibility, a skill more important in day-to-day life than just about anything you can possibly learn in school.

By the way, I'm a left-wing, anti-Bush liberal. I find boomstick's comments extremely offensive and childish... how can you possibly relate my politics to my support for my fellow American citizens in peril abroad? I don't think they should have been sent there in the first place, but now that they're there, I can't do much more than wish them good luck and a safe return. Furthermore, you generalize that all liberals "find ANY excuse to inconvience our heroic soldiers at any cost."

What does this discussion have to do with liberal vs. conservative anyway? It's about a school's disciplinary policy, and the inflexibility of said policy in light of extenuating circumstances. Politics has nothing to do with it.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

I got detention for saying `hell' (I said what the hell). After class I got asked if I wanted to excuse myself and I didn't even know what I did wrong.

In which country did you go to school?

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by Athens

For those defending the kid, READ. The only thing stupid is the schools no cell phone policy, the kid was on his lunch, that said, the kid if he had told the teacher it was a very important long distance call from his mom im sure everything would have been fine, but this stupid kid decided to give lip and other crap which is what got him in hot water. Nuff said.

You are pretty smart for dumb canadaian! Ha! I agree with you.

From facts reported here and my brain it sounds like kid wanted to be tough guy. He know his mom in Iraq is like trump card. So he use that card last. He know cell phone calls are not ok in school. He don't care. Why? He got ace up his sleeve. Mom in Iraq.

If teacher tells him to hang up but he told teacher he is talking to mom he know teacher will not take his word and will want to see for her self. She ask for phone but he says no. Why? He know he has trump card. Call is from mom in war. Everybody will excuse him.

When teacher take phone from him he is on hobby horse now. He think to self, "How can you take away my phone call to mom in IRAQ?!?! I know I am right here and so I can show them they can not be boss of me! I have the power now. I will make big stink and I will win! I don't need good self control."

He go to principle office and say everything on his brain and from his ass. He don't care. Why? He will have big last laugh when everybody know it is true his mom called him from Iraq. He will say, "See, I was right. I had the power. I am the man. You are the crap."

The boy is learning to be a man. Learning about use of power. Want to stop being boy and become a man. There is no man to teach him how and when. Or when not.

Boys will be boys. But it looks like nobody learned much from this yet. School could handle situation better. Boy could have done different.

Some kids will drive down street in car and not avoid accident even if they can. Why? Because they know they are not at fault. Crazy kids.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

In which country did you go to school?

That happened during my year in the states. The school was a regular waspish school in Pennsylvania, nice people. But when it came to kissing, dress code and the likes, I couldn't understand them.

And I wasn't a trouble-maker, mind you.

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Exactly. There is no reason to assume that she knew in advance when she could call her son. She's a soldier in a combat zone, not a vacationer at a resort. She also might never come back. Did anybody think about that?

This school is close to Fort Benning, Georgia -- the home of the Infantry. It's in the middle of one of the largest military communities in the country. It is going to catch hell for this rigid inability to use common sense and compassion. And rightly so.

"She also might never come back. Did anybody think about that?"

Just because mom in war is reason to break rules? If son is in jail it is ok for mom to break rules and not do her job or just leave army to come home? No, boy needs to learn. If mom dies boy really needs to learn to follow rules. Or which rules to break and when. You think mom wants son to be stupid thug who loose control everytime he don't get his way?

This is study for all. Nobody, not boy, not school is baby wide eyes innocent here.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Eynstyn

Just because mom in war is reason to break rules?

Yes if the rule is arbitrary and created for a situation that doesn't apply in this case. According to the school, the reason they have the rule is:

"They're not supposed to use them [cell phones] for conversating (sic) back and forth during school because if they were allowed to do that, they could be text messaging each other for test questions."

He wasn't going to be text messaging for test questions during lunch time standing outside the building. Nor was he going to be getting test questions from his mother in Iraq. He shouldn't have had to break the rule. They simply shouldn't have applied it in this situation.

A rule so rigid that it can't take account of such an extraordinary situation needs to be reevaluated, and the people who applied it in such a knee-jerk brainless manner need to be slapped upside the head. Put simply, their silly rule was at that moment far less important than the ability of that mother to cummunicate with her son. The school should have recognized that, applied ordinary common sense, and backed off.

[SVass]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

He wasn't going to be text messaging for test questions during lunch time standing outside the building. Nor was he going to be getting test questions from his mother in Iraq. He shouldn't have had to break the rule. They simply shouldn't have applied it in this situation.

A rule so rigid that it can't take account of such an extraordinary situation needs to be reevaluated, and the people who applied it in such a knee-jerk brainless manner need to be slapped upside the head. Put simply, their silly rule was at that moment far less important than the ability of that mother to cummunicate with her son. The school should have recognized that, applied ordinary common sense, and backed off.

Yes, I want to be clear that for once I agree with Simey. Rules like laws that lead to punishment should have an evil intent required. Now, if he could only agree that mandatory sentencing is ludicrous, three strike laws are insane, that crime labs/prosecutors who intentionally misuse evidence in death penalty cases should face an independent prosecution, and administration officials who intentionally authorize war crimes such as prisoner torture, renditions, and ghost detainees should also face a war crimes tribunal. sam

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Yes if the rule is arbitrary and created for a situation that doesn't apply in this case. According to the school, the reason they have the rule is:



He wasn't going to be text messaging for test questions during lunch time standing outside the building. Nor was he going to be getting test questions from his mother in Iraq. He shouldn't have had to break the rule. They simply shouldn't have applied it in this situation.

A rule so rigid that it can't take account of such an extraordinary situation needs to be reevaluated, and the people who applied it in such a knee-jerk brainless manner need to be slapped upside the head. Put simply, their silly rule was at that moment far less important than the ability of that mother to cummunicate with her son. The school should have recognized that, applied ordinary common sense, and backed off.

Sometimes stupid and sometimes good laws are policed by sometimes good and sometimes bad policemen and women.

The law for me to drive a sports car with good suspension at 15 mph in a curve I can do easy at 30 is a law. If a good cop have hard on for me he can give me ticket. If good cop think I am danger he can give me ticket. If good cop have fight with girlfriend and he is mad I can get ticket.

This is country for law, yes?

But you don't know how kid was defiant. If kid is prick, he gets screwed. If kid is nice nobody will know about this story. If I am cop or teacher and somebody break the law but they are nice, I might be nice to them. If they are tough guy, I will show them who is tough guy.

May best man win.

Kid lost.

School lost.

Dig two graves.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Eynstyn

But you don't know how kid was defiant. If kid is prick, he gets screwed. If kid is nice nobody will know about this story. If I am cop or teacher and somebody break the law but they are nice, I might be nice to them. If they are tough guy, I will show them who is tough guy.

Unfortunately this is the swaggering attitude that looks to me to have unnecessarily provoked this whole incident. Rather than make a sensible exception, the school decided to play "tough guy" when it wasn't appropriate. The kid probably was rude and a prick. That doesn't absolve the adults from the responsibility to use good sense in an extraordinary situation. They overreacted.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

The school should have recognized that, applied ordinary common sense, and backed off.

It it would have been a white kid, the school would have?

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Unfortunately this is the swaggering attitude that looks to me to have unnecessarily provoked this whole incident. Rather than make a sensible exception, the school decided to play "tough guy" when it wasn't appropriate. The kid probably was rude and a prick. That doesn't absolve the adults from the responsibility to use good sense in an extraordinary situation. They overreacted.

First make kid obey rules. Then be nice and sensitive. Just like USA and terrorist.

Terrorist don't like USA. Osama say, "I am right. I show you who is tough guy on 911."

Muslim PEOPLE might have good reason for angry at USA. But after 911 is too late for USA to be nice guy.

Maybe after war is over we can be kind of gentle. You are liberal man, yes?

If you think school overreacted then maybe George Bush overreacted in Iraq?

First there must be peace and good order. The people must obey law. After then can be philosphers and talk and talk and sensitive feeling for poor young defiant men.

If you have children you know the child will test you all the way. You can not show to be weak when he test you. After he know you are boss you can be sweet daddy, yes? It is principle of being leader, I think.

[NYCFarmboy]

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by NYCFarmboy

Why do you show this with bugs bunny?

[olePigeon]

What does the war in Iraq have to do with the attacks on September 11th?

Originally Posted by Eynstyn

First make kid obey rules. Then be nice and sensitive. Just like USA and terrorist.

Terrorist don't like USA. Osama say, "I am right. I show you who is tough guy on 911."

Muslim PEOPLE might have good reason for angry at USA. But after 911 is too late for USA to be nice guy.

Maybe after war is over we can be kind of gentle. You are liberal man, yes?

If you think school overreacted then maybe George Bush overreacted in Iraq?

First there must be peace and good order. The people must obey law. After then can be philosphers and talk and talk and sensitive feeling for poor young defiant men.

If you have children you know the child will test you all the way. You can not show to be weak when he test you. After he know you are boss you can be sweet daddy, yes? It is principle of being leader, I think.