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deomacius · Feb 23, 2007, 02:02 AM

I've got an odd question for anyone that can answer. I've been going rounds with another forum member about the definition of the word "opinion".

Here is an example...

A PC is easier for me to use than a Mac.

She believes this statement to be fact. I don't disagree, it may in fact be true that the PC is easier to use for her. But I believe it is an opinion.

PC's are easier to use than a Mac.

We both agree that this is an opinion.

Anyone care to chime in?

macgeek2005 · Feb 23, 2007, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by deomacius

I've got an odd question for anyone that can answer. I've been going rounds with another forum member about the definition of the word "opinion".

Here is an example...

She believes this statement to be fact. I don't disagree, it may in fact be true that the PC is easier to use for her. But I believe it is an opinion.

We both agree that this is an opinion.

Anyone care to chime in?

I'm sorry but if a PC is easier for her to use, then that's a fact. That's a fact about herself, just like the color of her eyes, and the size of her nose. That's not an opinion, it is indeed a fact. There's no margin for discussion here.

And likewise, the second statement is an opinion. Again, no room for discussion.

Cipher13 · Feb 23, 2007, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by deomacius

A PC is easier for me to use than a Mac.

Fact, but only because of the "for me" part, and the fact that this is something entirely centered around one person. This issue is not subjective, as nobody elses opinion has any merit.

PC's are easier to use than a Mac.

Opinion. It's a generalised statement, not one specific to the subjects personal experience.

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

I'm sorry but if a PC is easier for her to use, then that's a fact. That's a fact about herself, just like the color of her eyes, and the size of her nose. That's not an opinion, it is indeed a fact. There's no margin for discussion here.

And likewise, the second statement is an opinion. Again, no room for discussion.

I disagree; the personal usability of something is very different to a subjective matter such as the size of ones nose.

If I was to say "my nose is huge", that's my subjective opinion on the matter; it may not be huge at all. If I was to say "a manual is easier to drive than an auto, to me", that would be fact.

- - e r i k - - · Feb 23, 2007, 02:13 AM

What he said.

Why would you doubt that the statement "A PC for me is easier to use than a mac" is anything but fact?

Given three months or so, that fact might be reversed, but for now you can safely take it as fact, not opinion.

deomacius · Feb 23, 2007, 02:18 AM

Here is the reason I believe it to be an opinion...
Dictionary.com

Specifically:
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.

- - e r i k - - · Feb 23, 2007, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by deomacius

1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

...and?

Originally Posted by deomacius

2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

...and?

Originally Posted by deomacius

5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.

...and?

Check your logic. Her statement fulfills nothing of the like.

For HER using a PC is easier than a Mac. That's a fact - even if it can only be validated by herself. It is by no definition an opinion, but would be an accurate assessment of the facts.

By the way, why do you think arguing about semantics with her will make your case any stronger?

Cipher13 · Feb 23, 2007, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by deomacius

Here is the reason I believe it to be an opinion...
Dictionary.com

Specifically:
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.

From Dictionary.com

fact /fækt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fakt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun

3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

climber · Feb 23, 2007, 03:08 AM

If you assume for a moment that the Mac is in fact easier for her to use, it supports that her statement is an opinion. Who is to say her statement is actually a fact. She could instead say she "believes the PC is easier", and that certainly sounds more like an opinion. In my mind what she is saying means just that.

I guess it depends on the likelihood of the statement to reflect the truth.

cla · Feb 23, 2007, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

I'm sorry but if a PC is easier for her to use, then that's a fact.

"A PC is easier for her to use". Fact or opinion?

Big Mac · Feb 23, 2007, 04:44 AM

I hope this isn't the way you try to pick up girls, deomacius.

moeknows · Feb 23, 2007, 10:57 AM

If you were to assume that a Mac is easier, yes, however if I can in fact prove that a PC is easier for me to use than a Mac by dementrating this, then it is FACT that a PC is easier for me to use.

climber · Feb 23, 2007, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by moeknows

If you were to assume that a Mac is easier, yes, however if I can in fact prove that a PC is easier for me to use than a Mac by dementrating this, then it is FACT that a PC is easier for me to use.

Thats why I added... it depends on the likelihood of the statement reflects the truth. Since this is a PC over Mac argument, it's validity is automatically subject to review

deomacius · Feb 23, 2007, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I hope this isn't the way you try to pick up girls, deomacius.

I'm just a little bit smoother than that.

Nah, this may be having the opposite effect.

deomacius · Feb 23, 2007, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by moeknows

by dementrating this

I don't know what "dementrating" is, but it CAN'T be good!

deomacius · Feb 23, 2007, 11:53 AM

Okay, I get it. You guys can take this as my public acknowledgement that I was incorrect.

Sorry Moe!

moeknows · Feb 23, 2007, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I hope this isn't the way you try to pick up girls, deomacius.

Originally Posted by deomacius

I don't know what "dementrating" is, but it CAN'T be good!

I'm sorry, demonstrating. I will give you this one...smooth by the way.

Doofy · Feb 23, 2007, 11:55 AM

It all depends on whether she's actually spent any hard time on a Mac.

If she hasn't, then it's an opinion.
Is she has, then it's a fact.

moeknows · Feb 23, 2007, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

What he said.

Why would you doubt that the statement "A PC for me is easier to use than a mac" is anything but fact?

Given three months or so, that fact might be reversed, but for now you can safely take it as fact, not opinion.

Originally Posted by Doofy

It all depends on whether she's actually spent any hard time on a Mac.

If she hasn't, then it's an opinion.
Is she has, then it's a fact.

See above.

Doofy · Feb 23, 2007, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by moeknows

See above.

Nope. It's not a fact until she's tried using a Mac and *still* found the PC easier.

moeknows · 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Nope. It's not a fact until she's tried using a Mac and *still* found the PC easier.

Yes...
Exactly..still see above. If I have used both a Mac and a PC, and *still* found the PC easier for me to use, then it is a fact for me to say that a PC is easier for me to use then a Mac.

I have used both a PC and a Mac and I personally find the PC easier for me to use and navagate. This is true and factual at this present time.

Doofy · Feb 23, 2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by moeknows

Yes...
Exactly..still see above. If I have used both a Mac and a PC, and *still* found the PC easier for me to use, then it is a fact for me to say that a PC is easier for me to use then a Mac.

I have used both a PC and a Mac and I personally find the PC easier for me to use and navagate. This is true and factual at this present time.

You are the lady in question?

I didn't realise. Then yes, if you've used a Mac and still find the PC easier, it's a fact.

centerchannel68 · Feb 23, 2007, 01:11 PM

Still depends. Most people who say 'they owned a mac and prefer windows' have only really used a mac with OS 8.6 or something. If anyone has honestly given OSX a good try and still prefers windows, I think they should be locked up in a nut house.

Doofy · Feb 23, 2007, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by centerchannel68

If anyone has honestly given OSX a good try and still prefers windows, I think they should be locked up in a nut house.

Concur.

deomacius · Feb 23, 2007, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by centerchannel68

If anyone has honestly given OSX a good try and still prefers windows, I think they should be locked up in a nut house.

That would mean lot's of lonely Saturday nights for ME! I'm not sure I agree with THAT solution!