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Adobe Reader 8 - When will Adobe learn?
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Reader 8 is out and there are separate PowerPC and Intel versions, no Universal version. Also, they still have the same asinine download and installation process.
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Their weird downloader app just downloads a disk image to the desktop that contains the installer for the Reader. So why don't they simply link to that disk image and be done with it?
And why does it install an "Adobe Help Viewer" in my Applications folder? OS X does come with a help viewer already. If Adobe insists on its own one, then at least stick it into the program bundle. If every company insisted on installing their own help viewer I had dozen or so of them in my Applications folder. Insane.
Also, the folder the installer created for Adobe Reader 8 contains a file called "Icon" of the type "Unix executable". This looks unprofessional.
ps:
Oh great, when you delete the "Adobe Help Viewer" the Adobe Reader insists on recreating it again. So it is inside the program bundle and I'm forced to have it clutter my Applications folder. WTF?
pps:
And when you move it out of its own folder (where there is only a ReadMe and the "Icon" file, so this really doesn't need its own folder in Applications), then it asks for the admin password every time I launch it. That's all I need to know. This thing is going to the trash again. I stick with Preview.
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Last edited by TETENAL; Dec 5, 2006 at 11:56 PM.
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Yeah, lots of strange behaviour with this app.
But I did see some very nice things. The interface finally looks good. The subtle shadow on toolbar items looks great. The gray sidebar really looks and works well. The window control buttons are kinda wonky, though.
I really like the page number display and zoom tools in the toolbar. Apple would be wise to copy that.
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I'm VERY impressed with the speed of the Intel-native version and absolutely nothing else.
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Adobe sucks rocks. Bloated and overhyped. After all these years Photoshop and Illustrator are the only useful apps they make.
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Originally Posted by TETENAL
ps:
Oh great, when you delete the "Adobe Help Viewer" the Adobe Reader insists on recreating it again. So it is inside the program bundle and I'm forced to have it clutter my Applications folder. WTF?
So I downloaded Reader 8.0, and deleted Help Viewer app both out of the application bundle and the Applications folder, and now it refuses to start because "required components are missing." So, I put Adobe Help Viewer back the Applications folder and made it invisible.
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Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa
So you find it perfectly acceptable how Adobe is handling Adobe Reader 8? You think it's fine to have someone download an installer that installs an app that downloads another installer when a simple disk image with a drag-and-drop install is all that's necessary? You think it's acceptable that Adobe decided to not provide a Universal binary, but instead provides separate binaries for PowerPC and Intel for no good reason? You think it's fine to have the app install a stand alone help viewer instead of using the built-in help viewer or even the same one that CS2 uses?
I guess you're right. I guess we're all a bunch of cry babies because we don't like the wonderful user experience Adobe is providing.
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Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa
I guess people need to complain about something.
The icon sucks.
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Adobe Reader is an absolute piece of crap on the Mac platform. Preview is much better for *reading* PDF files.
Unfortunately, though, the PDF files created by Acrobat are consistently smaller in filesize than the ones churned out by OS X. The collaboration and annotation tools in Acrobat (not Reader) are better than the ones in Preview, as well.
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Originally Posted by Scifience
Adobe Reader is an absolute piece of crap on the Mac platform. Preview is much better for *reading* PDF files.
I don't know, Adobe Reader 8 is MUCH better than 6 or 7 ever were. It's faster and the browser plug in actually works now.
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Preview forever. Actually, I think it is my favorite built-in app on OS X. Next would be TextEdit.
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Originally Posted by Person Man
I don't know, Adobe Reader 8 is MUCH better than 6 or 7 ever were. It's faster and the browser plug in actually works now.
I keep debating whether to bother downloading this, mainly because of the plug-in. I had the version 7 plug-in installed for a while and I liked the fact that it had a search box, unlike the other inline-PDF options for Safari. But it was slow and every once in a while just wouldn't load at all, and I'd have to restart Safari to see my PDF. If it's any better, I might try it (though I've no use for Adobe Reader, the app, once I want to see a PDF outside the web browser..)
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Originally Posted by Person Man
So I downloaded Reader 8.0, and deleted Help Viewer app both out of the application bundle and the Applications folder, and now it refuses to start because "required components are missing." So, I put Adobe Help Viewer back the Applications folder and made it invisible.
Take a look at /Library/Application Support/Adobe/Acrobat/Rdr8ENUSelfHeal.xml. That file contains the rules that Acrobat uses to determine which components need to be present or self-healed. Look for the stuff you don't want, which will have a YES or REQUIRED key, and change it to NO. Then the app will stop insisting on "healing" itself.
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Preview would be great but I can't get it to print. Just spits out empty sheets of paper or at most only 1 line is printed.
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The second or third thing I do when I set up a new machine is to change the default app on all PDF files from Acrobat to Preview. I'm always sorry when I launch that POS by mistake. I haven't downloaded 8 yet, but this thread does not inspire me to.
(This from an avowed Photoshop lover--Adobe has... divergence, shall we say, between divisions.)
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When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
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Originally Posted by Art Vandelay
So you find it perfectly acceptable how Adobe is handling Adobe Reader 8? You think it's fine to have someone download an installer that installs an app that downloads another installer when a simple disk image with a drag-and-drop install is all that's necessary? You think it's acceptable that Adobe decided to not provide a Universal binary, but instead provides separate binaries for PowerPC and Intel for no good reason? You think it's fine to have the app install a stand alone help viewer instead of using the built-in help viewer or even the same one that CS2 uses?
I guess you're right. I guess we're all a bunch of cry babies because we don't like the wonderful user experience Adobe is providing.
I said I had no problems downloading the app and it has worked perfectly fine for me.
And yes, I do think it is perfectly fine (in fact preferred) that they have separate Intel and PPC versions. I wish ALL my Universal apps were Intel only on my Intel-based Macs. Why do I need PPC code? I don't - it's a waste of space and completely useless on my computers. Don't use the Help Viewer so I don't care one way or the other. Like I said, most of the complaints I've read don't matter to me. Reader 8 works and works well - that's all I care about.
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I prefer Preview as well, but I encounter PDFs from time to time that don't display right (or at all) in Preview that work fine in Adobe Reader. For instance, PDF output from Inkscape usually has large chunks missing in Preview but not in Adobe Reader.
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On a similar vein, Acrobat Pro 8 is pretty happy now that it stops insisting on installing PDFMaker everytime I launch the thing. I just stopped caring about Adobe's help app because all of CS2 uses it.
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Originally Posted by Oneota
Take a look at /Library/Application Support/Adobe/Acrobat/Rdr8ENUSelfHeal.xml. That file contains the rules that Acrobat uses to determine which components need to be present or self-healed. Look for the stuff you don't want, which will have a YES or REQUIRED key, and change it to NO. Then the app will stop insisting on "healing" itself.
That didn't seem to work for me, but searching inside of both "/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Acrobat/RdrENU80SelfHeal.xml" and "/Applications/Adobe Reader.app/Contents/MacOS/RdrENU80SelfHeal.xml" for all instances of ">/Applications/" and then replacing them with ">Contents/MacOS/SelfHealFiles/Applications/" did. No longer are foolish help and updater files created outisde of the Adobe Reader application itself.
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On my machine (Mac Pro, 10.4.8), the Adobe Reader 8 Safari plug-in will occasionally fail to load, causing Safari to hang with a beach-ball o' death. Not sure why it does this - haven't found a pattern yet.
Its back to Safari's built-in PDF viewer (such that it is) and Preview for me.
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Huh, their installer acted normally. That installing-the-installer crap in version 7 drove me bats, but in version 8 the installer I downloaded (PowerPC) just installed the app.
Perhaps Adobe changed something at the last minute, or do people who download Reader now still get the old behavior?
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It's unclear exactly what the Adobe Help Viewer does. I found the help files inside the application bundle. They're just html files and can be viewed just fine with Safari. It looks like Adobe has reinvented the wheel.
Chris
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Originally Posted by Art Vandelay
You think it's acceptable that Adobe decided to not provide a Universal binary, but instead provides separate binaries for PowerPC and Intel for no good reason?
It's not a decision, it's a lack of options when you're not using Xcode.
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Originally Posted by mduell
It's not a decision, it's a lack of options when you're not using Xcode.
You can use lipo to create a universal binary regardless of what compiler or IDE you used.
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Originally Posted by CharlesS
Huh, their installer acted normally. That installing-the-installer crap in version 7 drove me bats, but in version 8 the installer I downloaded (PowerPC) just installed the app.
Perhaps Adobe changed something at the last minute, or do people who download Reader now still get the old behavior?
Yeah, that's a recent change. The first couple of days after the release it was the same as version 7. It might have something to do with the recently discovered security flaw in the previous version of their download manager.
http://www.adobe.com/support/securit...apsb06-19.html
Also, the disk image for the actual app installer is now web-enabled. It wasn't before.
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You know, if the venom in this thread were rattlesnake venom, the world would be supplied with the raw materials to make antivenom for YEARS. If you don't like it, don't use it.
I prefer Reader because I'm used to the features it offers-which are apparently still very similar across the PC and Mac platforms. <off to go download and install 8>
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Originally Posted by chabig
It's unclear exactly what the Adobe Help Viewer does. I found the help files inside the application bundle. They're just html files and can be viewed just fine with Safari. It looks like Adobe has reinvented the wheel.
Chris
They reinvented it twice. CS2 has Adobe Help Center for its HTML-based help and Reader has Adobe Help Viewer. You'd think they'd at least try to use the same help program for all of their applications.
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Originally Posted by ghporter
You know, if the venom in this thread were rattlesnake venom, the world would be supplied with the raw materials to make antivenom for YEARS. If you don't like it, don't use it.
I don't use it personally. If I did, these annoyances wouldn't really bother me. However, as a network admin, these decisions by Adobe make my life more difficult.
Non-Universal binaries: Admins will either have to give up on the idea of a Universal image for all of their Macs when Leopard comes out or make their Intel users run Reader in Rosetta which is the path I'm taking.
Separate Help Viewer: Another application to maintain. If it's like Adobe Help Center in CS2, the Adobe updaters won't check for updates for it. You have to manually go to Adobe's website to check for updates. Also, adds confusion for CS2 users. They will now have to remember which of the two Adobe help apps to choose from to look up help.
Separate Download Manager: This one seems to not be relevant anymore for the time being at least. But until recently, it was an app that was installed on the computer that only is used once. I always removed it after I was done with it. However, those that left the version from Reader 7 on their Macs now have a security vulnerability that they have to deal with.
These issues combined with the numerous issues that were accompanied with the initial release of CS2 makes Adobe leave a bad taste in my mouth. I used to be able to count on this company to be hassle free when it came to its products. Now, it's one of the worst. There just doesn't seem to be much quality assurance going on and attention to the user experience anymore.
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Art, I agree with you as to the admin issues-I didn't see that you were looking at this from an admin point of view. However, there are some really NASTY posts in this thread-and I'm pretty sure Adobe is NOT the devil incarnate. They made some really dumb choices from a user AND admin perspective, but the app itself is pretty neat!
When I installed 8 (from the FTP link) it did indeed download stuff that downloaded stuff that eventually I had to open to install the reader. That was a pain, but a brief one. But this new version of Reader FLIES! The app opens FAST, and it opens PDFs REALLY FAST. I am very impressed. Now if they actually thought about how ungainly (and probably confusing) this is for the average user, they might have made it even better.
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In all honesty Adobe seems to be getting a worse rep for itself every year. which is unfortunate since they have some absolutely useful apps that it'll suck if they continue to get worse.
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Originally Posted by mindwaves
Preview forever. Actually, I think it is my favorite built-in app on OS X. Next would be TextEdit.
im sorry people, but wtf? why are you downloading adobe reader when you have preview, which spanks the ass off reader in terms of speed?
im with mindwaves
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Last edited by pyrite; Dec 12, 2006 at 01:43 AM.
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Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa
I said I had no problems downloading the app and it has worked perfectly fine for me.
And yes, I do think it is perfectly fine (in fact preferred) that they have separate Intel and PPC versions. I wish ALL my Universal apps were Intel only on my Intel-based Macs. Why do I need PPC code? I don't - it's a waste of space and completely useless on my computers. Don't use the Help Viewer so I don't care one way or the other. Like I said, most of the complaints I've read don't matter to me. Reader 8 works and works well - that's all I care about.
You don't seem to understand why many of us are so upset.
The way Reader is acting is very much like a low end Windows application. As an OS X user, I expect Adobe to use the built in functions of OS X when developing their software (unless they need more features). It simplifies EVERYTHING when teaching people how to use the OS and applications. It's like building a program and having "COMMAND + S" close the document without saving.
OS X applications should
- install like most other applications.
- be a UB (or give a reason why it's not a UB)
- use the built in Help features of OS X
- shouldn't spread random REQUIRED files all over the place
Regarding the Intel/PPC versions, it's great that YOU know about which version you need, but many computer users come to OS X for simplicity. They want ONE help... ONE icon... ONE... version to download.
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Originally Posted by pyrite
im sorry people, but wtf? why are you downloading adobe reader when you have preview, which spanks the ass off reader in terms of speed?
im with mindwaves
Because Preview.app can'd do everything Acrobat can... and the other way around.
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Originally Posted by pyrite
im sorry people, but wtf? why are you downloading adobe reader when you have preview, which spanks the ass off reader in terms of speed?
im with mindwaves
To tag on Mitchel's response, have you tried version 8 yet? It is FAST-it seems about as fast as Preview to me, and since I'm used to what Reader does, it feels a lot better to me. I've had problems with Preview-for example, I'm told you can copy text from PDFs with Preview, but I've never gotten that to work. And it's FREE and not terribly huge so why the F not?
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Glenn, that's the second time you've said Reader 8 is fast. I forget, do you use a PPC or Intel Mac (or both)? On which platform are you seeing such great speed?
Does anyone out there find it zippy on, say, an iMac G5?
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Originally Posted by slugslugslug
Glenn, that's the second time you've said Reader 8 is fast. I forget, do you use a PPC or Intel Mac (or both)? On which platform are you seeing such great speed?
Does anyone out there find it zippy on, say, an iMac G5?
It's very fast on a 2.0 GHz Intel Core Duo iMac!
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Originally Posted by pyrite
im sorry people, but wtf? why are you downloading adobe reader when you have preview, which spanks the ass off reader in terms of speed?
im with mindwaves
Did you even read the thread? Adobe Reader can display some PDFs that Preview can't. If you've never encountered such a PDF, then good for you. But some of us have to use them all the time, and Preview alone just does not cut it.
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Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa
I said I had no problems downloading the app and it has worked perfectly fine for me.
So you think it's perfectly fine that Reader needs to be authenticated each and every time it is launched in non-admin accounts?
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Originally Posted by slugslugslug
Glenn, that's the second time you've said Reader 8 is fast. I forget, do you use a PPC or Intel Mac (or both)? On which platform are you seeing such great speed?
Does anyone out there find it zippy on, say, an iMac G5?
It's zippy on my PowerBook G4.
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I just installed Acrobat 8, and it did not install an update to the plug-in. IIRC, I had to find a separate installer for the version 7 plugin, so I attempted to do that this time but could find nothing. What version of the plug-in do you guys have installed? I think I may switch back to PDF Browser Plug-in because that seemed to be more reliable.
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On the other hand Acrobat PRO 8 is the cat's whiskers!
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Originally Posted by TETENAL
So you think it's perfectly fine that Reader needs to be authenticated each and every time it is launched in non-admin accounts?
Is there any fix for this?
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Originally Posted by mindwaves
Preview forever. Actually, I think it is my favorite built-in app on OS X. Next would be TextEdit.
I always wondered why anyone would install Acrobat Reader on a Mac ...
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