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New MacBook Pros (Page 2)
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Koralatov
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Jun 9, 2009, 04:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
The new displays may be better than the old ones, but I would be very surprised if they were not still TN panels.
I realised this the more reading I did. They were very careful to announce that they had the same gamut as the 17" MBP, but didn't mention anything about viewing angles. It would be disappointing if the 13" were still TN; it would be an outrage if the low-end 15" switched to TN.
     
Simon  (op)
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Jun 9, 2009, 04:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Yes, with the advent of the 9400M integrated circuitry, the discrete 9600M GPU matters mostly for games...
...and pro apps like Motion, Aperture, FCP. Plus everything that will make use of OpenCL in SL.

I agree the difference is smaller than it used to be with dedicated GPUs on the MBP vs. Intel GMA on the MB, but it is still there.

And it's by far not just gamers who need to consider getting more than just a 9400M.
     
Big Mac
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Jun 9, 2009, 05:31 AM
 
You're right, Simon, (especially about OpenCL which I forgot about until I watched the keynote stream) but in the product advertising Apple chooses to highlight the GPU difference solely as it relates to gaming. I'd like to find benchmarks comparing the performance difference for pro apps.

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ajprice
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Jun 9, 2009, 05:39 AM
 
(Thinking out loud...) They just turned the MacBooks into MacBook Pros, and the white Macbook isn't going to be there forever. I think they might be making room to replace the Macbook (non Pro) line with the netbook/tablet Mac, maybe around September with the Snow Leopard release.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
P
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Jun 9, 2009, 06:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
(Thinking out loud...) They just turned the MacBooks into MacBook Pros, and the white Macbook isn't going to be there forever. I think they might be making room to replace the Macbook (non Pro) line with the netbook/tablet Mac, maybe around September with the Snow Leopard release.
<Insert Atom/Ion netbook speculation here>
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Simon  (op)
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Jun 9, 2009, 07:42 AM
 
<insert "seconded" here>
     
amazing
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Jun 9, 2009, 12:04 PM
 
Imagine if Apple took the 12" PB and gave it the unibody treatment: full size keyboard, adequate display, full list of ports (eg firewire). Lightweight, good battery, excellent wireless range, core2duo.

In other words, not a crippled MBA.

That's what we should be wishing for.
     
CharlesS
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Jun 9, 2009, 12:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Koralatov View Post
I realised this the more reading I did. They were very careful to announce that they had the same gamut as the 17" MBP, but didn't mention anything about viewing angles. It would be disappointing if the 13" were still TN; it would be an outrage if the low-end 15" switched to TN.
Until last Sunday, I had an early 2008 low-end 15" MacBook Pro, and now I am typing this on the unibody low-end 15" MacBook Pro, the one that was the current model two days ago. The screens on both of them were definitely TN panels. I don't think it is possible for Apple to "switch" to TN panels when that's what they've always been using.

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kikkoman
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Jun 9, 2009, 01:08 PM
 
So now that the battery is fixed can we assume the hard drive is fixed too?
     
jokell82
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Jun 9, 2009, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by amazing View Post
Imagine if Apple took the 12" PB and gave it the unibody treatment: full size keyboard, adequate display, full list of ports (eg firewire). Lightweight, good battery, excellent wireless range, core2duo.

In other words, not a crippled MBA.

That's what we should be wishing for.
Isn't that just the 13" MBP? What is it missing (other than the discreet graphics, which not even the low end 15" has)?

Originally Posted by kikkoman View Post
So now that the battery is fixed can we assume the hard drive is fixed too?
I didn't even think of that. They made a big deal out of how easy it was to replace the hard drive with the last design.

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mduell
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Jun 9, 2009, 02:38 PM
 
Really cute move by Apple: instead of calling the degraded (no EC, slower GPU) 15" a MB, they moved the MBP brand downmarket by adding the 13" to the line.

But I'm really happy about the 13" MBP since they upgraded the display and keyboard on the bottom model and the SD reader is a plus for non-pros (pro cameras generally use CF). I'll probably buy one with the education deal when they upgrade the iTouch.
Now if only I could swap that vestigial FW port for eSATA...
     
Big Mac
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Jun 9, 2009, 03:23 PM
 
Vestigial? FW? How dare you! We fought hard to get it back and now you openly mock our victory!

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Koralatov
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Jun 9, 2009, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Until last Sunday, I had an early 2008 low-end 15" MacBook Pro, and now I am typing this on the unibody low-end 15" MacBook Pro, the one that was the current model two days ago. The screens on both of them were definitely TN panels. I don't think it is possible for Apple to "switch" to TN panels when that's what they've always been using.
I apologise; that’s my mistake then.

What I’d read on the internets, and having seen both a polycarbonate and early Unibody MacBook in the flesh, led me to believe that the MBP/MBA used some kind of SIPS of MVA panel, versus the truly awful panels used in the regular MacBooks. Certainly, side-by-side, it’s hard to believe that all three are using the same type of panel — the difference between them is like night and day.
     
Simon  (op)
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Jun 9, 2009, 05:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by kikkoman View Post
So now that the battery is fixed can we assume the hard drive is fixed too?
My guess is it will be as "fixed" as it is on the 17" MBP.

IOW it will require you to unfasten about nine screws vs. the current MB's three. You need the appropriate screw driver in both cases. The resulting difference is negligible.
     
Simon  (op)
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Jun 9, 2009, 05:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by amazing View Post
Imagine if Apple took the 12" PB and gave it the unibody treatment: full size keyboard, adequate display, full list of ports (eg firewire). Lightweight, good battery, excellent wireless range, core2duo.

In other words, not a crippled MBA.

That's what we should be wishing for.
I had several 12" PBs and I can remember the discussions here like it was yesterday. There was endless bitching about the 12" PB and how it was crippled compared to the real PBs, how its GPU was crap, how its screen was crap, how it was fat, how it was hot, and how it didn't deserve the "Power" moniker at all, yada yada, ...

In hindsight everybody makes the 12" PB sound like the perfect notebook. But back in the day it was met with just as much (if not more) criticism as the current MBs. It's human nature to glorify the past. And this is a perfect example.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 9, 2009, 05:51 PM
 
True that.

Us people who actually *had* (or have) one revere it to this day, though.
     
higuy83
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Jun 9, 2009, 05:57 PM
 
Has anyone here confirmed that the new 13" MacBook Pro uses a better/higher quality display panel than the previous gen 13" unibody MacBook?

Thanks in advance.
15" MacBook Pro 2.33 GHz/320GB/2GB RAM
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turtle777
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Jun 9, 2009, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
<insert "seconded" here>
Done.

-t
     
Brien
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Jun 9, 2009, 09:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
My guess is it will be as "fixed" as it is on the 17" MBP.

IOW it will require you to unfasten about nine screws vs. the current MB's three. You need the appropriate screw driver in both cases. The resulting difference is negligible.
I'm still not sure Apple's move away from user-replaceable batteries in all of their hardware was a good idea.
     
jaba813
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Jun 9, 2009, 10:17 PM
 
Can anyone advise on which video adapter will work with the new 13 Inch MBP

I have one for my current Macbook, but I don't think it will work.

Is it this one? Apple Micro-DVI to Video Adapter - Apple Store (U.S.)

Is there a difference between Mini-Display & Micro Display Adapter?
     
Eug
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Jun 9, 2009, 11:47 PM
 
Just sold my 2008 white MacBook (not WhiteBook). Now I need a laptop. Thinking of that 2.26 GHz 13" MacBook Pro with Firewire. Too bad about that lost audio port, but then again and digital optical audio input can go into my iMac I suppose.

I considered just getting the 2 GB (since this is a secondary computer), but methinks Snow Leopard and new apps are gonna eat RAM for breakfast, so I'll get the 4 GB.
     
Big Mac
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Jun 10, 2009, 01:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by jaba813 View Post
Can anyone advise on which video adapter will work with the new 13 Inch MBP

I have one for my current Macbook, but I don't think it will work.

Is it this one? Apple Micro-DVI to Video Adapter - Apple Store (U.S.)

Is there a difference between Mini-Display & Micro Display Adapter?
Yes, there's a difference. The product you linked to is a mini (or micro) DVI adapter. The new Apple laptops don't have mini DVI, they have mini DisplayPort. It's a different connection type. If you want to connect one of the new laptops to a regular external display, you probably want this product instead:

Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter - Apple Store (U.S.)

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Simon  (op)
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Jun 10, 2009, 02:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by jaba813 View Post
Can anyone advise on which video adapter will work with the new 13 Inch MBP

I have one for my current Macbook, but I don't think it will work.

Is it this one? Apple Micro-DVI to Video Adapter - Apple Store (U.S.)

Is there a difference between Mini-Display & Micro Display Adapter?
You linked to an adapter to S-Video and Composite. Is that really what you're using? Are you hooked up to a TV?

Also, you linked to a Micro-DVI adapter. But actually, if you have an older MacBook, you have a Mini-DVI->Video adapter. Micro-DVI was used on the MacBook Air only.

What you need now for the new MacBook is an adapter from Mini DisplayPort. Those however only exist (so far at least) for VGA, DVI (there's another one for DDL), and HDMI (third-party adapters).
( Last edited by Simon; Jun 10, 2009 at 03:08 AM. )
     
tiger
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Jun 10, 2009, 03:20 AM
 
So apple brought back FW, is there an off-chance they'll bring back DVI?... DVI is more practical in my opinion than a mini-display-port.
     
Eug
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Jun 10, 2009, 07:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by tiger View Post
So apple brought back FW, is there an off-chance they'll bring back DVI?... DVI is more practical in my opinion than a mini-display-port.
Just buy the adapter.
     
jokell82
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Jun 10, 2009, 07:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by tiger View Post
So apple brought back FW, is there an off-chance they'll bring back DVI?... DVI is more practical in my opinion than a mini-display-port.
More practical? If they changed it to a a mini-DVI port you'd still need an adapter. The only reason it would be more practical is if you had a huge stash of adapters already.

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Simon  (op)
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Jun 10, 2009, 08:10 AM
 
Also, DVI would mean people couldn't connect to their brand new 24" ACD (no DVI passthrough support).
     
phoenix78
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Jun 10, 2009, 08:23 AM
 
What i would really like to see is a redesign of the power brick and magsafe strain relief.

Sheesh... How much longer are they going to continue to sell that piece of crap?! I had one that melted at the power brick end. When the plastic peeled back you could see the frayed wires. They gave me a free replacement but its the same design. And i do treat my cable with care. I dont yank it out and i dont bend it.

I think the macbook pros are very good value now. You wont get this config and build quality with other brands... unless im mistaken. Microsoft's price attack commercials will take a hit? They cant exaggerate the difference as much now.

Im rather intrigued with the capabilities of the large touchpad now that snowleopard can do some fancy chinese text recognition. I'd love to be able to use it to annotate a powerpoint/keynote slide while giving a presentation. Projectors usually show a square screen for presentations... the touchpad could act like a tablet instead of a mouse.

Now, all id like is to wait for 1x4Gb sticks to come down in price Rather costly, even when looking to our cheapest retailer here in Oz.
     
NaddyMac
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Jun 10, 2009, 09:07 AM
 
honestly saying I'm a little disappointed with the new MBP models, I just bought myself an MB466 (like just literally two days ago). Oh well. Working with Apple Inc does have its advantages. At some point. I knew we'd have new MBPs coming. and I still stuck my gun buying the MB466 lol. Now I gotta freaking memorized the new Product codes for the new models....
     
jokell82
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Jun 10, 2009, 09:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by NaddyMac View Post
honestly saying I'm a little disappointed with the new MBP models, I just bought myself an MB466 (like just literally two days ago). Oh well. Working with Apple Inc does have its advantages. At some point. I knew we'd have new MBPs coming. and I still stuck my gun buying the MB466 lol. Now I gotta freaking memorized the new Product codes for the new models....
Unless it was custom ordered you can return it for a new model.

All glory to the hypnotoad.
     
NaddyMac
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Jun 10, 2009, 09:27 AM
 
nah wasnt a custom order, unfortunately. I already have customers lining up to place deposits for the new shipment. Lucky bastards.
     
Maflynn
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Jun 10, 2009, 11:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by NaddyMac View Post
honestly saying I'm a little disappointed with the new MBP models, I just bought myself an MB466 (like just literally two days ago). Oh well. Working with Apple Inc does have its advantages. At some point. I knew we'd have new MBPs coming. and I still stuck my gun buying the MB466 lol. Now I gotta freaking memorized the new Product codes for the new models....
Hold on here, you work for apple, you knew about WWDC and presumably how apple likes to announce updates to its products during WWDC and you still bought a new computer?

Why didn't you wait the two days?
~Mike
     
amazing
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Jun 10, 2009, 12:08 PM
 
Most times, Apple's right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing?

Anyway, here's something that made me laugh this morning: Barefeats.com is suggesting that we call the new models the "MacBook Semi-Pro!"

WWDC 2009: MacBook Pro analysis

Gotta love it!
     
Urkel
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Jun 10, 2009, 12:35 PM
 
C'mon Apple. Not only are they tagging the "Pro" label on machines with integrated GPU's, but they also took out optical audio and microphone input?



It's a shame Apple rebadged things because one thing Apple really is good at is putting distinct lines between its products. iMac vs Mac Pro and Macbook vs Macbook Pro are easy to distinguish but now you really need to examine the specs in order to know if you're getting what you expect.
( Last edited by Urkel; Jun 10, 2009 at 12:44 PM. )
     
CharlesS
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Jun 10, 2009, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Maflynn View Post
Hold on here, you work for apple, you knew about WWDC and presumably how apple likes to announce updates to its products during WWDC and you still bought a new computer?

Why didn't you wait the two days?
Hey, I can beat that. After the Apple Store finally gave up on trying to get the NVidia 8600M on my early 2008 MBP (worst Apple laptop ever, btw) to work properly, even after three logic board replacements, they offered me a unit swap. On Sunday, the Apple rep told me that he was transferring my data from my old MBP to the new one, but somehow that ended up taking all day, and thus I had to wait until Monday morning to pick it up.

The new MBPs were announced as I was riding home on the train with my new MBP.

I don't mind, though - the improvements to the 15" line don't seem that significant to me (the 13", on the other hand, is great), and I'd rather have the ExpressCard slot and removable battery.

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design_ab
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Jun 10, 2009, 12:45 PM
 
Sadly, Apple is moving away from Pro-fessional laptops to Pro-sumer laptops. EC34 cards are still used by professionals as most professional cameras use CF cards, not SD. So a 15.4" MBP is now out of the question. Higher resolution screens are now the norm for pros as well as matte screens. If a battery fails in a remote area, one cannot switch batteries anymore. And paying an Apple premium for RAM is not in the best interest of anyone. Certainly serious amateurs will enjoy the current MBP offerings, but for the working professional, we will have to look at other hardware in the 15" screen size range rather than Apple's products. This is about Apple maintaining profit margins, not accommodating user needs. We'll still use the desktop for our main work, but will have to forego OSX and use other portables better suited for professional work.
( Last edited by design_ab; Jun 10, 2009 at 12:46 PM. Reason: specific source added)
     
Simon  (op)
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Jun 10, 2009, 12:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
My guess is it will be as "fixed" as it is on the 17" MBP.

IOW it will require you to unfasten about nine screws vs. the current MB's three. You need the appropriate screw driver in both cases. The resulting difference is negligible.
User manuals were released today.

Both the 13" and 15" have ten screws to fasten the bottom case to the top shell. Then there's two screws holding the disk bracket in place thus securing the disk. The installed disk itself comes with four mounting screws that hold the disk in the right place.

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/...ch_Mid2009.pdf
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/...ch_Mid2009.pdf
     
Simon  (op)
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Jun 10, 2009, 01:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by BareFeats
My biggest disappointment is the loss of the ExpressCard/34 slot on the 15" model. That's been very useful for PRO accessories like the two slot Compact Flash ExpressCard reader for PRO photographers with Nikon D200 and D300s who shoot RAW. ("Real men don't use cameras with SDs.") It's useful for the 3G Broadband ExpressCard Modem for PROs on the road who don't want to block the use of the second USB port with USB 3G Broadband modem. It's useful for PRO video and audio creators who want to connect up to 2 eSATA storage devices using the Sonnet Tempo Pro "true" SATA ExpressCard. (Many so-called eSATA ExpressCards are limited to USB speeds.) Companies like Sonnet, CalDigit, LaCie, and OWC have produced some very fast eSATA based RAID enclosures that are designed specificially for the MacBook Pro. They offer transfer speed at least three times faster than FireWire 800.

Yes, I know the 17" model retains the ExpressCard slot, but what about the claim that most PROs buy the 15" model? I've heard the argument that a "single digit" pecentage of MacBook Pro owners use the ExpressCard slot, but to remove a valuable interface for PRO users makes me question the "MacBook Pro" moniker. Maybe Apple should call the 13" and 15" models "MacBook Semi-Pro."
WWDC 2009: MacBook Pro analysis
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 10, 2009, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
C'mon Apple. Not only are they tagging the "Pro" label on machines with integrated GPU's, but they also took out optical audio and microphone input?
NO THEY DIDN'T.

Read up.

The audio port is an I/O analog port, and it still does optical out. Perfectly adequate for almost anybody who'd resort to using it. They only sacrificed optical input; that's all.

BTW, the separate input never was a microphone input - it was always line-level only (the unibody models added a mic input via a fourth contact on the output, like the iPhone headset).
     
mduell
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Jun 10, 2009, 02:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Vestigial? FW? How dare you! We fought hard to get it back and now you openly mock our victory!
YHBT. YHL.

Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
C'mon Apple. Not only are they tagging the "Pro" label on machines with integrated GPU's, but they also took out optical audio and microphone input?
Per the specs page, it's still got optical out, only the input socket has been removed.
     
ajprice
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Jun 10, 2009, 02:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
C'mon Apple. Not only are they tagging the "Pro" label on machines with integrated GPU's, but they also took out optical audio and microphone input?



It's a shame Apple rebadged things because one thing Apple really is good at is putting distinct lines between its products. iMac vs Mac Pro and Macbook vs Macbook Pro are easy to distinguish but now you really need to examine the specs in order to know if you're getting what you expect.
If you were spending four figure money on a computer wouldn't you examine the specs of what you were buying anyway?

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
mduell
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Jun 10, 2009, 02:25 PM
 
The SDHC slot is bootable and limited to 240Mbps, so it's USB connected internally (not that there was any doubt, but just confirming).
     
SamGuy
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Jun 11, 2009, 12:17 AM
 
I just bought a 2.26 13" MacBook Pro to replace my 2.0 13" MacBook Unibody (that i received May 19th)

First thing i noticed was that the viewing angle was worse on the new one. a black background isn't even as uniformly black as the MacBook. When looking straight at the screen, the bottom appears brownish. The more i 'look down' at the screen, certain lighter colors invert themselves pretty badly. But then again, the screen in the 13" MacBook Unibody was quietly upgraded mid-April.

SECOND - the matshita optical drive is much more annoying than the HL drive of the previous.

THIRDLY (and Most Importantly?) - Despite stating the same model info in system profiler, the Serial ATA bus on my 13" MacBook Pro is back down to 1.5 Gigabit (it was 3.0 Gigabit on the 2.0 unibody. this has me in a tizzy)
     
turtle777
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Jun 11, 2009, 01:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by SamGuy View Post
B]THIRDLY[/B] (and Most Importantly?) - Despite stating the same model info in system profiler, the Serial ATA bus on my 13" MacBook Pro is back down to 1.5 Gigabit (it was 3.0 Gigabit on the 2.0 unibody. this has me in a tizzy)
Could this just be the System Profiler reporting wrong data ?

-t
     
SamGuy
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Jun 11, 2009, 02:17 AM
 
(i hope so)
     
Simon  (op)
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Jun 11, 2009, 03:21 AM
 
Unless you have an SSD in there it won't matter.

That said, the chipset supports 3Gbps SATA so I expect this to be buggy reporting in SP.
     
iomatic
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Jun 11, 2009, 12:44 PM
 
So Sam, you're saying the new screen is worse?

I'm not entirely sure about the detractors to the Pro line. Apple defines what is called "Pro"; not the armachair MBAs flitting around the various boards. It seems pro enough to me; all ports necessary for work can be replicated via USB.

Yes, even eSATA:
SpyderHUB USB/FireWire to eSATA Converter

By the time USB 3.0 rolls around, I bet we see FireWire drop out. And by then, I bet there'll be a FireWire --> USB 3.0 converter. I wage that USB 3.0 will be the Universal standard it's supposed to be (even though it may be bad compared to FireWire bandwidth utilization).

If you really want the highest-end computing power, you'd probably get a Mac Pro.
     
Eug
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Jun 11, 2009, 01:04 PM
 
So, how much memory for light usage with a 13" MBP?

I'm thinking 2 GB should be fine, as I don't actually use the machine that much. (My primary machine is an iMac.) Primary usage is Office and Safari, with a bit of iLife and Photoshop thrown in once in a while. I have Aperture, but it normally gets used on my iMac. 4 GB is only CAD$111 (US$100) extra though.

I don't know how memory intensive Snow Leopard will be though.
     
SamGuy
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Jun 11, 2009, 01:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
So, how much memory for light usage with a 13" MBP?

I'm thinking 2 GB should be fine, as I don't actually use the machine that much. (My primary machine is an iMac.) Primary usage is Office and Safari, with a bit of iLife and Photoshop thrown in once in a while. I have Aperture, but it normally gets used on my iMac. 4 GB is only CAD$111 (US$100) extra though.

I don't know how memory intensive Snow Leopard will be though.
Upgrade to 4 when you get snow leopard (even though it should be more efficient). 2 GB is fine for now.

Have you seen how much RAM safari can take up? it's more than any other application i ever use.

Regarding SATA 3.0/1.5
I am planning on it being buggy reporting. My brother just went through all the new machines at the applestore where he works and says that all the new laptops say 1.5 (except the 17")
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 11, 2009, 01:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by iomatic View Post
So Sam, you're saying the new screen is worse?

I'm not entirely sure about the detractors to the Pro line. Apple defines what is called "Pro"; not the armachair MBAs flitting around the various boards. It seems pro enough to me; all ports necessary for work can be replicated via USB.
Once again: NO, THEY CANNOT.
     
 
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