[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by lavar78 

Search me. I was just throwing it out there. Seeing 2 Starbucks leads me to believe that (1) she's a Cylon, (2) she's a clone, or (3) the line between humans and Cylons isn't what we thought it was.

Agreed. I'm opting for #3

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by lavar78 

Search me. I was just throwing it out there. Seeing 2 Starbucks leads me to believe that (1) she's a Cylon, (2) she's a clone, or (3) the line between humans and Cylons isn't what we thought it was.

That's what I'm thinking. I think we will find out that humans and cylons are much more interrelated than those in the series currently think. And Thrace is the pivot.

[Eug]

Well, this is disturbing. Early model Cylon robots are already here, and available for purchase.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Why would there be only 12 or 13? There were billions on Earth... why would those 5 clueless dorks have been the sole survivors and how would they end up being revered by the other 7 and all the raiders and centurions?

Watch the episode 'Missing Hours' in season 4 of Miami Vice and you'll have your answer.

By the way, is Dean Stockwell still on the cast of BSG?

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by lavar78 

Search me. I was just throwing it out there. Seeing 2 Starbucks leads me to believe that (1) she's a Cylon, (2) she's a clone, or (3) the line between humans and Cylons isn't what we thought it was.

Or even worse: Some lame time-travel paradox thing where somehow she traveled into the past, crashed, and now her future-self (present-self?) has found the wreckage from the future/past.

Remember that Starbuck has been to earth. She seemed all gung-ho about it when she returned, but "forgot" how to get back there. I guess she didn't get a close look to notice the devastation.

She (Starbuck) is the harbinger of death. What has happened before will happen again (cylon baseship). Is this all big frackin' time loop?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Or even worse: Some lame time-travel paradox thing where somehow she traveled into the past, crashed, and now her future-self (present-self?) has found the wreckage from the future/past.

Remember that Starbuck has been to earth. She seemed all gung-ho about it when she returned, but "forgot" how to get back there. I guess she didn't get a close look to notice the devastation.

She (Starbuck) is the harbinger of death. What has happened before will happen again (cylon baseship). Is this all big frackin' time loop?

This is what I'm betting on. Starbuck is a Starbuck from a different iteration of events. The original Starbuck really did die.

[starman]

Then where did the brand spanking new Viper come from, with Kara's knowledge intact?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

Then where did the brand spanking new Viper come from, with Kara's knowledge intact?

From the former iteration...

As far as her knowledge, I dunno, it's possible similar events have happened in her timeline, but considering everyone seems to be having mass amnesia, no idea.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

... to start a Human society on Caprica that built Cylons which turned on the Humans and left to start a Cylon society on Earth that built Humans which turned on the Cylons and left to found a Human society on Caprica ...

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if this turned out to be the big reveal

Do you mean Kobol, rather than Caprica?

[Demonhood]

perhaps there is an automated resurrection system setup for any human or cylon that dies on Earth.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Well, this is disturbing. Early model Cylon robots are already here, and available for purchase.

"Thinking of You" is the company's motto. Yeah, that is rather creepy.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Demonhood 

perhaps there is an automated resurrection system setup for any human or cylon that dies on Earth.

Here are my reasons Starbuck being a clone or a Cylon doesn't make any sense:

1) Neither would have the tattoo she got when she married Anders.
2) It doesn't explain where her brand spanking new Viper and matching dog tags came from.
3) Starbuck came back with knowledge of the future as she had visions of a "Comet" which turned out to be the damaged Rebel Cylon basestar (which hadn't happened yet). She also could "hear" some sort of sound leading her to earth.
4) It doesn't explain how her Viper which has no FTL got all the way from a) The votex where she died b) all the way to earth c) back to the nebula where she returned to BSG.

I do believe that "Starbuck" did die in the Maelstrom though. Whatever it was that came back is not the same person.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Here are my reasons Starbuck being a clone or a Cylon doesn't make any sense:

1) Neither would have the tattoo she got when she married Anders.
2) It doesn't explain where her brand spanking new Viper and matching dog tags came from.
3) Starbuck came back with knowledge of the future as she had visions of a "Comet" which turned out to be the damaged Rebel Cylon basestar (which hadn't happened yet). She also could "hear" some sort of sound leading her to earth.
4) It doesn't explain how her Viper which has no FTL got all the way from a) The votex where she died b) all the way to earth c) back to the nebula where she returned to BSG.

I do believe that "Starbuck" did die in the Maelstrom though. Whatever it was that came back is not the same person.

But how would this new person/entity have all those same things (the tattoo, Viper, etc.). BTW, I don't think her being a clone makes any sense at all in the context of this show. I was just throwing that out there.

[Salty]

This is the problem, they can't use the normal sci fi time travel sorta things because that's now how BSG works, aside from the FTL drives and the fact that they're in space, there's very little science in this fiction. There has to be a reasonable explainable thing that happened. The problem is I'm not really sure the writers even know what she is!

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Salty 

This is the problem, they can't use the normal sci fi time travel sorta things because that's now how BSG works, aside from the FTL drives and the fact that they're in space, there's very little science in this fiction. There has to be a reasonable explainable thing that happened. The problem is I'm not really sure the writers even know what she is!

Well, hopefully they know by now. They've already finished filming and the sets have been auctioned off...

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Well, hopefully they know by now. They've already finished filming and the sets have been auctioned off...

...there's one born every minute!

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Salty 

This is the problem, they can't use the normal sci fi time travel sorta things because that's now how BSG works, aside from the FTL drives and the fact that they're in space, there's very little science in this fiction. There has to be a reasonable explainable thing that happened. The problem is I'm not really sure the writers even know what she is!

She's something else: she's the hinge on which the whole thing turns.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I mentioned it before but RDM said when they first wrote starbucks return she was just going to appear in Lee's quarters but they thought that was a bit too supernatural and changed it to her arriving in a viper.

So it seems the idea of what she is pretty damn sci-fi and more than just something simple like a clone or Cylon.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

...there's one born every minute!

What do you mean? You're so mysterious. So deep. Are you hinting that it was just a few crappy props and they kept the sets? That there's more to the story? Maybe a movie? Another series? Clue us in dude.

Or do you just mean that only a fool would pay good money for the sets of such a crappy show?

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I mentioned it before but RDM said when they first wrote starbucks return she was just going to appear in Lee's quarters but they thought that was a bit too supernatural and changed it to her arriving in a viper.
So it seems the idea of what she is pretty damn sci-fi and more than just something simple like a clone or Cylon.

The only reason something like BSG doesn't seem that much like science is because we have iPhones etc now and we are officially living in the future! And because the ship is so old and retro it's about as fictional as an LED calculator.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

The only reason something like BSG doesn't seem that much like science is because we have iPhones etc now and we are officially living in the future! And because the ship is so old and retro it's about as fictional as an LED calculator.

I feel the need to point out that my calculator (or even my iphone), doesn't have a faster than light engines. Or a couple of wings of atmo/space capable fighter craft. Don't even get me started on AI so advanced that they not only rebel and go to war against their creators, but can also create entities virtually indistinguishable to human beings, and yet able to download their consciousness into a new body when need be.

It would take more than phones with cords for me to consider BSG other than sci fi, even if the drama takes center stage.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Or do you just mean that only a fool would pay good money for the sets of such a crappy show?

Yes, mrtew, that's precisely what I mean. Besides being a babe-repellant of immense proportions.

"yeah girl, that's an actual part of the Battlestar set on season 5". <girl runs away>

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Yes, mrtew, that's precisely what I mean. Besides being a babe-repellant of immense proportions.

"yeah girl, that's an actual part of the Battlestar set on season 5". <girl runs away>

What's even sadder than a sci-fi geek?

One who hangs around their hang-outs only to point out how lame they are.

[Gankdawg]

I must be tired, what was that whole episode about?

[Shaddim]

Well, one of the half-cylons is a fake. The rest of the episode is setup for a fleet-wide mutiny.

I can't see how Adama has put up with that **** for this long. The entire fleet should have been under martial law from the moment they left Caprica. Maybe put a civilian on a tribunal, but only as an adviser.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

What's even sadder than a sci-fi geek?

One who hangs around their hang-outs only to point out how lame they are.

I suppose that sorta works if you do it with a Fozzie the Bear voice..

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Well, one of the half-cylons is a fake.

That was actually one of the best ways to get out of the whole "Cally and Tyrol have a cylon kid" plotline. I think they realized when they made the chief a cylon they knew they had an inconsistency related to the whole "cylon breeding with humans" plotline.

Now I wonder how they will handle

 

Tigh and Six having a kid.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

That was actually one of the best ways to get out of the whole "Cally and Tyrol have a cylon kid" plotline. I think they realized when they made the chief a cylon they knew they had an inconsistency related to the whole "cylon breeding with humans" plotline.

Yeah, but that's exactly how it comes across: "Oh shiitake! Let's quickly do something to get out of this bind somehow." It would have been more believable had there been ANY contact between Cally and Olmos Jr. previously.

I guess the good news is "Hot Dog" now can finally live up to his name.

P.S. Guys, it's not "Tie" or "Ti", etc. It's "Tigh".

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah, but that's exactly how it comes across: "Oh shiitake! Let's quickly do something to get out of this bind somehow."

I was kind of hoping the father would be Baltar.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I was kind of hoping the father would be Baltar.

I was thinking that's who it was.

[Spliff]

Anyone notice that there's something not right with Admiral Adama?

 

Could it be that Adama is actually the dying leader, not Roslin?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I not buying that whole tiliam ship running for the hills and Zarek giving then up. It all seemed like a setup as it seemed played up the way Zarek talked to them over open channels and so quickly gave them up. The rest of the civilian ships need the fuel more than BSG does.

I'm scared the damn thing is going to blow up right under their noses as start of a rebellion.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Spliff 

Anyone notice that there's something not right with Admiral Adama?

 

Could it be that Adama is actually the dying leader, not Roslin?

Good catch, man: I didn't even think about that. He's definitely popping a lot of pills, and something in his neck/upper back is hurting him.

[lexapro]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett 

Good catch, man: I didn't even think about that. He's definitely popping a lot of pills, and something in his neck/upper back is hurting him.

In an interview Ron Moore said it's nothing major.

but then again Ron Moore told us that Nicky Tyrol was a half-cylon.

[Shaddim]

Trust no show that has Jane Espenson as a writer or producer, she'll make things up in interviews just to keep people guessing.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Trust no show that has Jane Espenson as a writer or producer, she'll make things up in interviews just to keep people guessing.

She wrote the single worst BSG episode.

[hwojtek]

Originally Posted by goMac 

This is what I'm betting on. Starbuck is a Starbuck from a different iteration of events. The original Starbuck really did die.

Or is she a common hallucination like the "Head Six" used to be for Baltar?
Oh no, it wouldn't explain herself actually interacting with several people and objects...

[lexapro]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett 

She wrote the single worst BSG episode.

The Black Market episode?

[scottiB]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett 

She wrote the single worst BSG episode.

You've written this previously, so I'm curious which one of the below it is

The Hub (2008) the one where they blow-up the title
Escape Velocity (2008) the one where Tigh and Caprica get busy
Dirty Hands (2007) the one where the plebeians arise
The Passage (2006) the one where the fleet runs a radioactive gauntlet

[Eug]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

The Black Market episode?

Yeah, that was pretty horrible. I don't know what my worst three list is comprised of though. Perhaps I've purged them from memory.

P.S. My fave episode is "33". Great way to start the series.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by scottiB 

You've written this previously, so I'm curious which one of the below it is

The Hub (2008) the one where they blow-up the title
Escape Velocity (2008) the one where Tigh and Caprica get busy
Dirty Hands (2007) the one where the plebeians arise
The Passage (2006) the one where the fleet runs a radioactive gauntlet

The Passage: hands down the worst episode, although it was only marginally worse than the one before it (Unfinished Business). Those two almost made me stop watching.

[design219]

Originally Posted by Eug 

P.S. My fave episode is "33". Great way to start the series.

Agreed. It made me tired.

[ort888]

There were (are) a lot of filler episodes. I think this series would have been better if they had made it about 30 episodes long and went for a much tighter and focused story.

So far we've had a lot of repetition and tangent plotlines that could have easily been hacked out. There are still things I'm confused about or have completely forgotten because of the huge breaks.

Where the hell is Helo and Athena's kid? I've completely forgotten what's even going on there.

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally Posted by ort888 

There were (are) a lot of filler episodes. I think this series would have been better if they had made it about 30 episodes long and went for a much tighter and focused story.

So far we've had a lot of repetition and tangent plotlines that could have easily been hacked out. There are still things I'm confused about or have completely forgotten because of the huge breaks.

Where the hell is Helo and Athena's kid? I've completely forgotten what's even going on there.

She's still around. They showed her briefly in the first of the new episodes this year. What I wonder is if she's actually going to do anything (like they said/implied she would) or if she'll just show up for 5 seconds every few episodes to remind us of her existence.

The show is so full of angst and totally unlikable characters that I can't wait for it to end. Even the storyline, which was once compelling, is dragging in a really bad way. The writers can't seem to stop bringing in new plot elements without wrapping up old ones. The show is non-episodic, to be sure, but it hasn't followed a coherent story arc other than the basic premise of the show.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

So I am assuming that Zerek and Gaeta try to take over BSG the next episode which I hope ends in both of them being shot dead. Then Cavils forces can make a comeback and things can get crazy again.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ort888 

There were (are) a lot of filler episodes. I think this series would have been better if they had made it about 30 episodes long and went for a much tighter and focused story.

So far we've had a lot of repetition and tangent plotlines that could have easily been hacked out. There are still things I'm confused about or have completely forgotten because of the huge breaks.

Where the hell is Helo and Athena's kid? I've completely forgotten what's even going on there.

I think it would work better if Sci-Fi channel didn't insist on inserting yearlong breaks every three episodes.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

So I am assuming that Zerek and Gaeta try to take over BSG the next episode which I hope ends in both of them being shot dead. Then Cavils forces can make a comeback and things can get crazy again.

You can't kill all the unlikable characters or there would only be one person left on the show.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I think it would work better if Sci-Fi channel didn't insist on inserting yearlong breaks every three episodes.

Don't exaggerate.... they only insist on a 9 month break every 10 episodes. Geez.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

You can't kill all the unlikable characters or there would only be one person left on the show.

…Badger?

[Luca Rescigno]

I really wish Chief Tyrol, Admiral Adama, Roslin, and Starbuck would all die. I could live with the rest of the cast, but those four make the show almost unwatchable.

[OreoCookie]

I really, really liked the last episode: all the way through, I had an uneasy feeling with a `sweet' end (`Ignorance is bliss.'). Great episode

I don't think it's about killing all the unlikeable characters, if we were to do that, the show would be boring, predictable and long gone. Maybe it's just me, but I think it's great that things don't always turn out well. And the reactions of both sides of the issue are at least understandable (≠ likeable). I understand Gaeta is pissed, because he's gotten the short end of the stick more often than not: he was the guy that uncovered the election scam by Roslin and Adama which put Balthar in office. We all know how that ended: he was despised as a collaborator by his fellow humans, a tool for the cylons. This almost killed him. He lost a leg, because his well-being was less important than the well-being of a cylon. Now he has had it. Needless to say that Roslin and Adama are proposing to not just work with the people who almost killed all of mankind, but make them permanent allies, even citizens. Hell, I'd be pretty sceptical myself, especially since most of the info that the audience has is not known to a typical citizen of the fleet.

Regarding the end, I wouldn't be surprised if there were an open end. RDM posted something like that on his blog a while ago.