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kelesh · Dec 9, 2003, 07:47 PM

I want to use Max's Brushed metal theme when it is updated for panther.

I'd rather not pay $20 for SS just to use this.

1. How safe is panther?
2. And how safe is converting the theme to a .dtla?
3. Specifically, what features would I lose?

Hi I'm Mike · Dec 9, 2003, 07:54 PM

panther isnt safe it will erase everything on your computer.
SS will do the same, i wouldn't use that either.
You might as well just go buy a PC if you dont want to install anything on your computer.

p.s. this post is for fun, just like this thread looks.
p.p.s. this thread probably didn't have to be made.
p.p.p.s. I am bored.

MorphOSX · Dec 9, 2003, 07:57 PM

1. How Safe Is Panther?

Same as any OS Upgrade. Works fine for some, others have problems. Just make sure everything is updated for Panther that you use before you upgrade, it will save headaches.

2. How Safe is Converting the Theme To DLTA?

It simply reformats the resources, doesn't cause any harm to the theme.

3. Specifically, what features would I lose?

No features are expressly lost by going with .dlta over shapeshifter. However, what you DO lose is stability and safety offered by ShapeShifter, as well as the ability to apply themes over some, all, or none of your applications as you see fit.

ThemeChanger replaces key system resources (Extras.rsrc, etc.) with those created by the theme. This is inherently problematic as if the .rsrc files in the theme are damaged somehow, or if there is an error in the file, or even if something doesn't like the new theme file, it can hose your system and cause major headaches.

Shapeshifter eliminates that inherent danger by applying themes from a "Safe state". It will patch the OS's interface, but it will not touch any necessary system files to do so.

And, in the future, ShapeShifter, if all the whispers are to be believed, will be offering far more creative liscense and features for themers to use in theming the OS than using a .dlta and ThemeChanger will allow, so themes created for future versions of SS may not work properly, and will probably look horrible without the features added by ShapeShifter.

David K.

NetworkShadow · Dec 9, 2003, 08:05 PM

Somebody last week emailed me saying they had F*ed up their Panther by using my Jag only theme with it and had to reinstall. It can be safe enough if you use the themes made ONLY for your version of OS X, but you can also have problems pop-up here and there... I hadn't had any problems with TC for the longest time, but I still got nervous every time it installed a new theme.

There shouldn't be a way for SS to mess-up anything on your system, and if it does it shouldn't be unfixable damage that would require a reinstall of Panther. If anything a reinstall of SS or exclude an application.

SS is where it's at though with themes for Panther, since it fixes many problems that the new Panther Aqua causes for themeing. It doesn't seem like a lot of theme developers will continue to support TC, so you might want to keep that in mind.

NetworkShadow · Dec 9, 2003, 08:09 PM

3. Specifically, what features would I lose?

No features are expressly lost by going with .dlta over shapeshifter. However, what you DO lose is stability and safety offered by ShapeShifter, as well as the ability to apply themes over some, all, or none of your applications as you see fit.

Well you'll get the old text color problems that make it impossible to use dark themes, and the crappie grey metal texture problem... Other than that most themes should port ok from SS to .dlta I'm sure you'll get a more informed answer soon enough.

kelesh · Dec 10, 2003, 01:00 AM

oops! when i wrote this I mean number 1 to say:

1. How safe is ThemeChanger? Will using a .dlta raise my risk of critical failure?

kelesh · Dec 10, 2003, 01:04 AM

eh it sounds like I should just pay for SS. i wouldn't feel so bad about it if it only cost $10. those unsanity bums are getting my money again.

NetworkShadow · Dec 10, 2003, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by kelesh:
eh it sounds like I should just pay for SS. i wouldn't feel so bad about it if it only cost $10. those unsanity bums are getting my money again.

Well look on the bright side, it keeps them making cool software, (shareware is their main income btw) they have yet to hit me up for money for ANY updates to their software, and you get to use Omega when it's out.

kelesh · Dec 11, 2003, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Well look on the bright side, it keeps them making cool software, (shareware is their main income btw) they have yet to hit me up for money for ANY updates to their software, and you get to use Omega when it's out.

First of all, alot of their software is buggy or not optimized.

Second of all, I'm not positive but its a pretty good guess that Unsanity is not their primary job, its probably something they do on the side, so they could charge less and be okay.

That being said, they do make nifty software, so they should charge what they can to maximize profits.

I wish apple would stop sucking and start putting building some of the features these haxies offer into OSX itself. Window shading? Theming? Custom mouse cursors? C'mon, a good OS should have these features (and more) built in.

u2zoo · Dec 11, 2003, 09:23 AM

In effort to stay on topic I will say that I never had problem with ThemeChanger. I did screw up my OS X installation with Duality once - but that was my own fault really.

OT: What Unsanity haxies are buggy? I have never experienced any problems with the ones I use daily - APE->Metallifizer, ClearDock, and WindowShade.

ShapeShifter still has the Safari bug for me so I can't give that a clean slate yet... and okay I'll grant you it probably needed a bit more testing - but Unsanity have said they had circumstances that required them (as a business) to release it sooner. 1.0.1 update was a great showing of how committed they were to fix user reported bugs.

Did no one here use Kaleidoscope? You had to pay for that as well... what is the difference?

And if you are recent switcher from Windows then you know for at least windows 2000 and down you had to pay for WindowBlinds because the other Window skinning apps were buggy, written once, and rarely updated again.

I will agree that Apple should have built in the Windowshade functionality and also for the Aqua "theme" at least there should have been more colors than blue and graphite. After that, you must know that Apple has become increasingly protective of their brand, GUI look'n'feel, and hardware designs. Virtually every OS udpate (including minor 10.x.x point revisions) has changed something in "theme" files... ask any of the themers on this board how many times they had to update their themes because Apple changed the rules on them.

Face it, right now ShapeShifter is the best we have - perhaps six months from now it will be a story, thats up to those of you unhappy ShapeShifter's features or price-point, and have programming skills, to decide. (i.e. do it better - ThemeChanger is open source, download the code and improve it.)

guikit, dlta, xtheme... whatever, I just want to get back to talking about themes.

NetworkShadow · Dec 11, 2003, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by kelesh:
Second of all, I'm not positive but its a pretty good guess that Unsanity is not their primary job, its probably something they do on the side, so they could charge less and be okay.

Un true dude, I've talked to them on boards and on their weblog they have side jobs in addition to Unsanity, not the other way around.

I've had no bugs with their haxies except for maybe their beta versions. SS 1.0.1 runs great even if 1.0 didn't for some people (I never had a problem with 1.0).

Isn't the Windows theme changing software as expensive or more than SS? They do have built-in theme support to some extent, but I've never seen a theme worth using that didn't use WindowBlinds or that other one.

ThemeChanger is dead end software because it just replaces the Extras.rsrc and other interface elements, so there's no way around Panther's limitations.

Dale Sorel · Dec 11, 2003, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
ThemeChanger is dead end software because it just replaces the Extras.rsrc and other interface elements, so there's no way around Panther's limitations.

Uh, I have used ThemeChanger on Panther and it seems to work just fine

smeger · Dec 11, 2003, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by u2zoo:
ShapeShifter still has the Safari bug for me so I can't give that a clean slate yet...

This is fixed in my development version, so it'll be clean in the next release.

NetworkShadow · Dec 11, 2003, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Dale Sorel:
Uh, I have used ThemeChanger on Panther and it seems to work just fine

It works fine for what it does. You still can't change the metal texture without it being grey scale, and the text colors can't be changed in carbon apps, (the two main limitations). SS fixes both problems and is supposed to have new abilities in v1.1. My point was that there's no way to improve Theme Changer anymore or make it comparable to SS.

kelesh · Dec 18, 2003, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
It works fine for what it does. You still can't change the metal texture without it being grey scale,

What does that mean? Will all my apps have the brushed metal appearance? That's basically what I care about. And having flat buttons, and a brushed metal menubar. Having transparent menu's would be nice too.

Can themechanger do all this?

NetworkShadow · Dec 18, 2003, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by kelesh:
What does that mean? Will all my apps have the brushed metal appearance? That's basically what I care about. And having flat buttons, and a brushed metal menubar. Having transparent menu's would be nice too.

Can themechanger do all this?

It means you'll have an ugly grey color for the metal texture if the theme had a color metal texture (almost any non-Aqua theme). The only metal textures I've seen work fine under TC in Panther was TuXedo, DSX, Milk and the Apple brushed default because they are all grayscale. You can fix that by not having any metal on your system using Metallifizer 1.3a1 http://www.unsanity.net/beta/metallifizer-13a1.zip Though it does have a few small bugs. I suggest adding Finder.app into the settings panel manually. it's in /System/Library/CoreServices/ directory.

Hope that helps.