[ort888]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

As for "any" minority group... no.
Crying wolf over the presence of invisible racist specters is the sole domain of African Americans in this country. There's an ingrained cultural victim mentality that their community suffers from that's been fostered over generations. That's sadder. No other minority group in the West seems to embrace this perspective that the world is continuously cheating them as African Americans do. That attitude and propensity to hurl accusations doesn't seem to translate along the same racial lines in the rest of the world.

Wow.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Fully 96 percent of black voters supported Obama

(Just sayin')

I thought Republicans don't believe in exit polls.

Al Gore got 90% of the black vote.

Demographics of How Groups Voted in the 2000 Presidential Election

Here's a hint. Blacks tend to vote for Democrats. Republicans still can't figure out why Blacks tend to vote for Democrats. Maybe because of sh*t like this?

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

Umm, no. Your lemming like political correctness overrides any critical thinking process time and again in your posts. It seems the cry of racism triggers some sort of Pavlovian response in you that feels the need to defend the claim as legitimate even if there is no actual proof to substantiate it. Its sad.

As for "any" minority group... no.
Crying wolf over the presence of invisible racist specters is the sole domain of African Americans in this country. There's an ingrained cultural victim mentality that their community suffers from that's been fostered over generations. That's sadder. No other minority group in the West seems to embrace this perspective that the world is continuously cheating them as African Americans do. That attitude and propensity to hurl accusations doesn't seem to translate along the same racial lines in the rest of the world.

If you were truly as progressive as you claim you'd be pissing in your pants that cases like this are treated seriously when there are real injustices in the world that get drowned out by people like this who are looking to make a buck by playing a race card


Sorry who the **** are you again?
You're so insignificant in these discussions that I can't say you made any lasting impression on me.
But clearly you still care enough about my posts to bitch like a little girl so knock yourself out.

The blind calling others blind. How funny.


She is not being chosen to be the next pope. Who cares if she's a teenage mom who has a child out of wedlock. It's only based on grades. If she has a highest GPA, then she should be Valedictorian.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

I would think they'd want to hold her up as a shining example to all the welfare mothers out there that having a kid isn't the end of your life.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Wow.

I get the argument that in many cases some of these situations can be exploited by African Americans to play the race card when there is no racism going on, I'm sure this happens, it's human nature to use the tools you have at your disposal for personal gain.

What I don't get is why it seems that it is conservatives that fairly consistently seem to have these sort of knee jerk reactions to these sort of things, as if there is a general belief that cases of racism are simply impossible or exceedingly rare.

Racism exists, sexism exists, discrimination exists, all sorts of similar things exist. Why the vehement default to disbelieving that these sort of things could occur? My default is "okay, I need some proof, but I could definitely see this happening"

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I get the argument that in many cases some of these situations can be exploited by African Americans to play the race card when there is no racism going on, I'm sure this happens, it's human nature to use the tools you have at your disposal for personal gain.

What I don't get is why it seems that it is conservatives that fairly consistently seem to have these sort of knee jerk reactions to these sort of things, as if there is a general belief that cases of racism are simply impossible or exceedingly rare.

Racism exists, sexism exists, discrimination exists, all sorts of similar things exist. Why the vehement default to disbelieving that these sort of things could occur? My default is "okay, I need some proof, but I could definitely see this happening"

Al Sharpton is guilty of this. Crying racism on every turn.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by subego 

I've found the general level of racism to pretty equal across the Northern and Southern states, the big difference is Southerners are more open about it.

If something's changed, I'd put my money on less openness rather than less racism.

I would tend to agree with you, but I know how white people (of the "redneck" variety, even) speak when unguarded, and the vast majority seem to be trying to move past the "Southern racism" era. Yes, I hear racist comments, but it's very rare. Then again, I've been publicly outspoken about the issue, and they might not be letting their guard completely down.

Either way, "the South... not as racist as you think" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

No, it's not, but that's not what I said. I'm emphasizing the fact that the rest of the country, and even the world, thinks that the Southern United States consists of downtrodden African-Americans living in fear and gun-toting, three-toothed crackers that all secretly have white robes hanging in their closets parading the streets hunting minorities. It's just not the case -- the South has made tremendous progress.

[subego]

We'll say two-thirds improvement, so, five teeth.
Like anyone could resist that setup

[el chupacabra]

Whats the big deal. We had like 15 valedictorians at my high school. It wasn't an issue. I guess this is really something worth fighting about now days. liberals

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

Whats the big deal. We had like 15 valedictorians at my high school. It wasn't an issue. I guess this is really something worth fighting about now days. liberals

Home schooling doesn't count.

You mean like preventing gays from joining the military and getting married? A big conservative cause.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV 

I would think they'd want to hold her up as a shining example to all the welfare mothers out there that having a kid isn't the end of your life.

You'd think. I'm guessing they would say that message would condone under age sex.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV 

You're forgetting how good valedictorian looks on a resume when your fresh out of school. An extra 2 months of contributions to your 401k at the beginning will be worth more than that.

I could see if it were the difference between valedictorian and nothing at all, but valedictorian and co-valedictorian?
Seems like a much less distinction. Now if it had adversely affected a college application somehow, she might have a point. Like if it cost her a scholarship or something.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

Whats the big deal. We had like 15 valedictorians at my high school. It wasn't an issue. I guess this is really something worth fighting about now days. liberals

Recognition for high achievement is now an exclusively liberal value? I suppose I can support that.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

You'd think. I'm guessing they would say that message would condone under age sex.

I don't know. I think folks are pretty forgiving contingent upon the delivery of the teen motherhood message. Unless you're Bristol Palin.

I have yet to find anything on the history of McGehee High School to know if they'd ever granted co-valedictorians before. The superintendent claims two candidates can qualify for the same achievement under two different circumstances; the co-valediction had half a credit more in course work giving up .03 or .05 in GPA. This can vary from school to school. If this is exceedingly rare or had never happened before in this school, it doesn't pass the smell test IMO. Some will say it's racism, others will say it's teen pregnancy/motherhood. Since 46% of the school is African-American, I suspect it had more to do with motherhood if not some other factor entirely. I certainly don't want to see a worthy white student disenfranchised by a flawed system, but if his inclusion was both rare and not based on a solid academic criteria, it stinks and I feel for Kymberly.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

Sorry who the **** are you again?
You're so insignificant in these discussions that I can't say you made any lasting impression on me.
But clearly you still care enough about my posts to bitch like a little girl so knock yourself out.

If anyone is curious about what earns a rule 9 infraction, this is it.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

We had like 15 valedictorians at my high school.

Why?

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

If anyone is curious about what earns a rule 9 infraction, this is it.

Heh. I searched for the MacNN rulez until I realized...

[subego]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

If anyone is curious about what earns a rule 9 infraction, this is it.

Was lpk calling him an asshole below the threshold?

[subego]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Why?

One can surmise because they wanted the title to have no value.

[ironknee]

where was this?

[subego]

"This" is a bit non-specific.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by subego 

Was lpk calling him an asshole below the threshold?

No.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

No.

[slowly backs pointer off of "post reply"]

Dammit.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by subego 

Was lpk calling him an asshole below the threshold?

I didn't actually call him an asshole, I called his opinions asshole-ism. But whatever, I'll take my lumps without whining.

[subego]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I didn't actually call him an asshole, I called his opinions asshole-ism.

You really wanna go down this road?

[Waragainstsleep]

Now I think of it, another question that should be asked is: Has this school ever had a black valedictorian before?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Now I think of it, another question that should be asked is: Has this school ever had a black valedictorian before?

Another good question ^^^

[subego]

According to the Reuters article, not in more than 20 years, though that claim is attributed to Wimberly.

[Wiskedjak]

Has the school released *any* statements?

[subego]

None which I've heard.

They're getting sued though, so that's probably standard procedure.

[mduell]

Determining valedictorian (or any other award/honor) by straight grades is a problem given the extreme disparity between available courses. Weighting helps, but the typical +1 scheme still has an issue with difficulty disparity.

[subego]

As someone who never even approached valedictorian, what is the +1 scheme?

[andi*pandi]

Well, you could get A+ in Woodshop and Home Ec, is that equal to A+ in Advanced Calculus and Chemistry? (Moot in this case since I think the article states she was taking AP classes.)

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Well, you could get A+ in Woodshop and Home Ec, is that equal to A+ in Advanced Calculus and Chemistry? (Moot in this case since I think the article states she was taking AP classes.)

Moot for *her*, though it would certainly be ironic if that were the case for the co-valedictorian.

[subego]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Well, you could get A+ in Woodshop and Home Ec, is that equal to A+ in Advanced Calculus and Chemistry? (Moot in this case since I think the article states she was taking AP classes.)

As an aside, there should be AP woodshop classes.

I am 100% serious.

[Uncle Skeleton]

They would count for college credit at trade schools? There would be a nationally administered standardized test?

PS My class had 13 people that tied for valedictorian with 4.0. They each selected a line or two to say at graduation. It was lame.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Has this school ever had a black valedictorian before?

Or a single mother? Or a parent working in the school?

[Cold Warrior]

In the event of a tie, they should go out several decimal places. If they don't keep those stats, and there are concerns about AP vs proletarian credits, then they should give a written test going from basic to difficult. The student who has learned the most will obviously score better.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

They would count for college credit at trade schools? There would be a nationally administered standardized test?

I trust some smarty-pants somewhere is capable of reworking the concepts to be applicable in a different context.

Or, you know, they could just dismiss it out of hand and we can all go home.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by subego 

I trust some smarty-pants somewhere is capable of reworking the concepts to be applicable in a different context.

But what is the general purpose? For placement (in what)? That's what AP is generally for.

[subego]

When I took AP classes it was because I wanted to learn the advanced stuff.

Was I doing it wrong?

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by subego 

When I took AP classes it was because I wanted to learn the advanced stuff.

Was I doing it wrong?

Yeah. You should've taken AP exams too. You can get college credit for passing some of the AP exams.

[subego]

I did.

I'm pointing out taking the exams weren't the purpose for me, learning the material was.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Well, you could get A+ in Woodshop and Home Ec, is that equal to A+ in Advanced Calculus and Chemistry? (Moot in this case since I think the article states she was taking AP classes.)

Not sure about Kansas, but in California, my high school district's AP classes are on a 5.0 scale instead of 4.0. It is possible, if taking an AP course, to get a 4.16 GPA each year. In your senior year at my high school you can take two AP courses instead of 2 electives (AP are twice as long as normal courses, so 1 additional AP class would take the place of your 2 electives), and get a 4.3 GPA.

Valedictorians at my high school always had 4.16 or 4.3 GPAs. We also usually had about 10 valedictorians and 40 to 50 salutatorians. My high school also had 3000+ students.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Not sure about Kansas, but in California, my high school district's AP classes are on a 5.0 scale instead of 4.0. It is possible, if taking an AP course, to get a 4.16 GPA each year. In your senior year at my high school you can take two AP courses instead of 2 electives (AP are twice as long as normal courses, so 1 additional AP class would take the place of your 2 electives), and get a 4.3 GPA.

Valedictorians at my high school always had 4.16 or 4.3 GPAs. We also usually had about 10 valedictorians and 40 to 50 salutatorians. My high school also had 3000+ students.

Similar at my school. But there's still just one valedictorian and one salutatorian.

[k2director]

Racism? I doubt it. Having a 16 or 17 year old teen mother as a valedictorian sends a questionable message. This young woman may have been able to manage good grades while being a Mom but the vast majority of teen moms go nowhere, and end up sucking up tax payer resources while contributing nothing to society, year after year. They need welfare. They need food stamps. Their kids often end up being truant, etc. etc. It's legitimate for administrators at the school to hesitate about putting this girl up on a pedestal, as a role model, especially when they know their student body far better than any of you do.

But even if there is a racist element to this story, let's not pretend (as some people are doing here) that the black community is only a victim of racism, instead of being a perpetrator of it. For instance, recent flash mobs all over the country: Flash mob attacks: Rising concern over black teen involvement - CSMonitor.com

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by k2director 

Racism? I doubt it. Having a 16 or 17 year old teen mother as a valedictorian sends a questionable message. This young woman may have been able to manage good grades while being a Mom but the vast majority of teen moms go nowhere, and end up sucking up tax payer resources while contributing nothing to society, year after year. They need welfare. They need food stamps. Their kids often end up being truant, etc. etc. It's legitimate for administrators at the school to hesitate about putting this girl up on a pedestal, as a role model, especially when they know their student body far better than any of you do.

So we shouldn't recognize success and achievement?

Could you imagine telling the soccer team's best player that she can't be season MVP because she is a single mom? Or the best chess player? Or the best in the debating club? Is a single mom allowed any recognition for achievement, or does the curse of single motherhood ruin everything?

Besides, valedictorian is not a "role model," it's a recognition of achievement. The real school role models, the school leadership, and the ones failing to be decent role models.

Finally, I think your attitude to single moms as social parasites is excessive and mean-spirited.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Finally, I think your attitude to single moms as social parasites is excessive and mean-spirited.

And a self-fulfilling prophecy. How are they supposed to prove themselves when their successes are disqualified in order to match the stereotype?

[k2director]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

So we shouldn't recognize success and achievement?

Could you imagine telling the soccer team's best player that she can't be season MVP because she is a single mom? Or the best chess player? Or the best in the debating club? Is a single mom allowed any recognition for achievement, or does the curse of single motherhood ruin everything?

Besides, valedictorian is not a "role model," it's a recognition of achievement. The real school role models, the school leadership, and the ones failing to be decent role models.

Finally, I think your attitude to single moms as social parasites is excessive and mean-spirited.

First of all, I never said "single moms", did I? Go ahead and actually read my post and you'll see that I was referring to "teen moms". Pay attention next time, or is this conversation above your intellectual pay grade? (oooh, sorry, was that mean-spirited again?)

I don't have a problem with single moms (having been raised by one), but I'm absolutely right about teen moms (especially minority ones): there may be a few exceptions, but the vast majority of them end up being multi-year or lifetime burdens to the rest of us.

You ask if we shouldn't recognize achievement and success. Of course we should, but there are other circumstances at play here that complicate the matter of putting this young woman in the spotlight. Having a co-valedictorian seems more than reasonable.

P.S. She gave birth her junior year, but found the time to excel in school, and her mother also works at the school....so who's raising the baby? They don't mention that in the article, but I bet there's state assistance/welfare handouts involved. And that's all this country needs right now--ie, more blacks not raising their own children, all the while leaning on the state.

P.P.S The girl's mother is a joke. She manages to fling the racism charge at school administrators on such weak evidence, but what about her own guilt in raising a daughter that got pregnant, most likely as a high school sophomore? If anybody should be hauled into court, it's her.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by k2director 

And that's all this country needs right now--ie, more blacks not raising their own children, all the while leaning on the state.

When it comes to baiting, you're a master

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

When it comes to baiting, you're a master

Of course these would be the same people harping about "merit" if the shoe were on the other foot.

OAW