[ghporter]

Despite the concerns voiced in 2018 about Wuhan Labs’ safety and security issues, it really looks like, if this was created there - badly done, not “engineered-looking” and illogically structured - that having it get loose and devastate the whole province “should have” resulted in a whole lot of people “disappeared” or just plain executed by the Chinese government.

On the other hand, there’s a very long history of folks outside of large-ish cities in China eating non-traditional animals. And the genome of this bug is consistent with multi-host development. The original SARS came from multi-host evolution and “jumping” to humans:

Around late 2017, Chinese scientists traced the virus through the intermediary of Asian palm civets to cave-dwelling horseshoe bats in Xiyang Yi Ethnic Township, Yunnan.

So as cool as it seems to think this was an experiment gone wrong, I think its really most likely that it was an opportunity for a SARS variant to jump to a whole new host in the back woods of China.

[subego]

Like Laminar, this is all way out of my wheelhouse. I felt like I could comment on that one bit from the AMA because it’s starting to get into geopolitics, which judging from that statement is out of that guy’s wheelhouse.

Along those same lines, I’m talking more about the media than the science. For example, MIT’s public-facing Overton window has moved to where the possibility of it being engineered is acceptable discussion. A former CDC director started barking up that tree as well, and Sanjay Gupta seems to be joining him.

I don’t think I’m going out on a limb by predicting this will gain momentum.

[subego]

So far, not too much in terms of side effects with the Pfizer, but my arm feels like I was slugbugged by “that guy”.

[reader50]

Your reaction is very different from mine. Pfizer here too. But I got a super mild sore arm the next morning. Which faded in a couple hours. No other reaction, and it's been a couple weeks now.

[subego]

Actually got hit with some nausea, but strangely only when I was moving around. That’s passed, but the arm’s still sore (though getting better).

[ghporter]

I just wrote a nice long post about how and why some folks will feel some sort of reaction to a first shot, or a second shot, or maybe both. Then I realized that all of that had been posted in this thread already, so I erased that and wrote this instead.

The most common reactions to these immunizations include feeling sore and tired, foggy-headed, and often some sort of chill/fever reaction.

The reason I wrote that post (that I erased and typed this instead) is that my immune system is working on my damaged hip joint, and as time passes - and/or as I do more activities - it uses more and more energy, with less left over for thinking, remembering, word finding, and so on.

The point here, driven home to me by realizing what I’d written at first, is that “normal, healthy” adults basically dust themselves off after one or both shots, and go on about their lives. But folks who are not so robust and healthful might take a lot longer to feel like themselves again, as their immune systems were already active and challenged before their immunizations.

Oh, and I get another COVID test next Wednesday as part of preoperative testing for my hip surgery Friday. Being immunized means you won’t get (or get as sick from) the virus. It does not mean you can’t harbor it and spread the virus with a sneeze or an unwashed hand.

[OreoCookie]

My mom got her first shot earlier last week, the Astra Zeneca vaccine. My parents were very apprehensive because of the rollout of Astra Zeneca in Europe and Germany in particular, and wanted to wait until the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was available. I’m glad she took it, though. My dad has his appointment, not sure about my grandmother who has been a bit difficult (she is 88). Also my sister got her first shot a few weeks ago, she got the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

Meanwhile, the vaccine rollout in Japan is embarrassingly slow. I doubt I’ll get an appointment this year.

[reader50]

Got my 2nd shot. Two weeks to normal life.

My plans in two weeks: visit a barber shop. My hair cutting skills are lacking. Then the dentist. It's been ~17 months since my last cleaning & checkup.

[Demonhood]

Nice.
I just booked a dental appointment as well. But apparently the rest of the world had the same idea. No opening for a cleaning until June.

[subego]

My frigging dentist retired while this was all happening, and didn’t set up any replacements.

[ghporter]

My COVID test on Wednesday was less mind-probing than the one in September, but it certainly wasn’t benign. But both my wife and I tested negative, so my surgery went as planned.

I felt like the hospital was running “comfortably” with COVID precautions. They had things set up to separate people who had already been tested from those who hadn’t yet. And once I was admitted, everything was very smooth.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

My COVID test on Wednesday was less mind-probing than the one in September, but it certainly wasn’t benign. But both my wife and I tested negative, so my surgery went as planned.

Glad to hear. I hope you’ll be on your feet in no time.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I felt like the hospital was running “comfortably” with COVID precautions. They had things set up to separate people who had already been tested from those who hadn’t yet. And once I was admitted, everything was very smooth.

Out of curiosity, what was the procedure? When my mom is going to hospital (she’s a terminal cancer patient) for e. g. chemo, she does an antigen test and a PCR test. Nobody — not even my dad — is allowed to accompany her, so they have volunteers (e. g. former nurses) who are going with patients to make sure they aren’t alone when they hear hard news. A lot of consultations are also over the phone. Is that similar?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Demonhood 

Nice.
I just booked a dental appointment as well. But apparently the rest of the world had the same idea. No opening for a cleaning until June.

My dentist gave up on the automated "you're overdue for your appointment" texts sometime last year. I'll need to see when I can get back in.

I've been using the clippers on my own hair for years now, so my haircut routine didn't suffer at all.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Glad to hear. I hope you’ll be on your feet in no time.

Out of curiosity, what was the procedure? When my mom is going to hospital (she’s a terminal cancer patient) for e. g. chemo, she does an antigen test and a PCR test. Nobody — not even my dad — is allowed to accompany her, so they have volunteers (e. g. former nurses) who are going with patients to make sure they aren’t alone when they hear hard news. A lot of consultations are also over the phone. Is that similar?

I had my left hip replaced; a total hip arthroplasty. “Severe” osteoarthritis on the left, “mild” on the right...

The hospital where it was done specializes in “elective” surgeries; not emergent repairs or medical issues like cancer. Frankly, aside from a worn out hip, I’m pretty darn healthy. We went in on Wednesday for the tests, and showed up early Friday for pre-op. I went home the next day, and I’m walking around the house with a walker.

Unfortunately, chemo patients are at risk from everyone and everything. So your mother was tested to be sure she wasn’t going to bring anything in that could hurt the other patients, and everyone else within that part of the facility is rigorously tested for the same reason. Family members and visitors are a risk the facility isn’t willing to take. I’m sorry that it’s harder on your mother and father.

[reader50]

It's been a few days since my 2nd Pfizer shot. For anyone interested, here were my symptoms:

1st shot: mild sore upper arm the next morning. Faded out after a few hours (16 hours after the shot). No other apparent symptoms.

2nd shot:
A) sore upper arm. Noticeable when lifting arm above 90 degrees. Faded out after 48 hours.
B) fatigue the next day, lasting all that day. Not sleepy, just no energy. Lasted about 24 hours after the shot.

[MacNNFamous]

I have my second one tomorrow. Planning on not working much thursday

[Thorzdad]

Tucker Carlson handed out some scary marching orders to his viewers in regards to people wearing masks outside...

“They are the aggressors. It’s our job to brush them back and restore the society we were born in. So the next time you see somebody in a mask, on the sidewalk on a bike path, do not hesitate. Ask politely but firmly, ‘Would you please take off your mask? Science shows there is no reason for you to be wearing it. Your mask is making me uncomfortable.’ We should do that, and we should keep doing it until wearing a mask outside is roughly as socially accepted as lighting a Marlboro inside an elevator. It’s repulsive."

"As for forcing children to wear masks outside, that should be illegal. Your response when you see children wearing masks as they play should be no different from your response to seeing someone beat a kid in Walmart. Call the police immediately. Contact Child Protective Services. Keep calling until someone arrives. What you're looking at is abuse. It's child abuse and you are morally obligated to attempt to prevent it."

[ghporter]

Tucker Carlson is a bleeping ignorant bully who thinks people should listen to him. Despite having no background in whatever it is he’s blathering about, he blathers at length, and always in an aggressive and overtly “mah ghad giv’n rahts” tone. He is not too be taken seriously, except for what he influences people to do - to their detriment.

Mr. Carlson, your “rights” end where they infringe on mine. You do not have any right to endanger me or my family, even if you think wearing a mask is infringing on you.

My response to anyone using Carlson’s suggested approach would be to “Go **** yourself.” I might then detail the issues many of my COVID patients had to deal with just to keep breathing. I might also include how my friend and former coworker Gabe died from COVID - it was horrible. Because anyone who listens to Carlson needs to know that he is an ignorant extremist.

George Takei tweeted (last MAY!!!)

I didn't spend my childhood in barbed wire enclosed internment camps so I could listen to grown adults today cry oppression because they have to wear a mask at Costco.

Honestly, being ill is much more oppressive than wearing a bleeping mask. And anyone with a shred of humanity would feel it extremely oppressive to know that their stupidity in not taking simple precautions is why their family member got sick and died. (Obviously this excludes Tucker Carlson.)

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I had my left hip replaced; a total hip arthroplasty. “Severe” osteoarthritis on the left, “mild” on the right...

The hospital where it was done specializes in “elective” surgeries; not emergent repairs or medical issues like cancer. Frankly, aside from a worn out hip, I’m pretty darn healthy. We went in on Wednesday for the tests, and showed up early Friday for pre-op. I went home the next day, and I’m walking around the house with a walker.

I‘m glad to hear that and I wish you a speedy recovery.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Unfortunately, chemo patients are at risk from everyone and everything. So your mother was tested to be sure she wasn’t going to bring anything in that could hurt the other patients, and everyone else within that part of the facility is rigorously tested for the same reason. Family members and visitors are a risk the facility isn’t willing to take. I’m sorry that it’s harder on your mother and father.

I perfectly understand the reasoning behind these measures and wholeheartedly agree with them. Nevertheless, it is extremely hard on them — and on me.

Overall, I think the hospitals in their region did a very good job when it comes to cancer patients. They pooled all of them in the region in a single hospital. Fortunately, this is a small university town so they have excellent hospitals to choose from. They also have the aforementioned cancer nurses who accompany patients and give them moral support, and she has access to a psychologist. Overall I am very happy with the care she gets. As a former hospital employee she even gets to pick doctors and all that.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

My response to anyone using Carlson’s suggested approach would be to “Go **** yourself.”

I had honestly forgotten about the automatic smut-blocker. I did NOT self censor this sentence. If you’re familiar with how I write here, you may understand the strength that I had intended that sentence to have. I truly reserve “strong” words for careful use. This is a time when I would have definitely used an unexpurgated, vehement statement using as much salt as appropriate.

[Ω]

Originally Posted by reader50 

It's been a few days since my 2nd Pfizer shot. For anyone interested, here were my symptoms:

1st shot: mild sore upper arm the next morning. Faded out after a few hours (16 hours after the shot). No other apparent symptoms.

2nd shot:
A) sore upper arm. Noticeable when lifting arm above 90 degrees. Faded out after 48 hours.
B) fatigue the next day, lasting all that day. Not sleepy, just no energy. Lasted about 24 hours after the shot.

All well and good, but has your 5G reception improved?

[subego]

Just got my second. Two weeks left in the hole.

This time, they directed me to a place to wait for 15 minutes afterwards, but said I could leave immediately if I wanted. I wonder if that’s a second jab thing, or a general revision to protocol.

My reception in the parking garage still sucked.

[Thorzdad]

I had to wait 15 minutes after both of my shots. Maybe they just forgot to tell you the first time?

[subego]

Interesting. I wonder what happens to people.

[Thorzdad]

They just want to make sure there aren’t any sudden complications, like extreme swelling, severe soreness, or some other rare reaction.

[Spheric Harlot]

I was directed to wait for fifteen minutes — and one of the assistants made a bit of meaningless small-talk when he showed my to my seat. I got the impression that he was checking to see if I was gonna faint, and after I responded clearly for about thirty seconds, he moved on.

[Thorzdad]

Yeah, the fainting thing, too. I’m one of those people who have been known to faint or get really light-headed when getting any kind of needle action. No problems with these shots, though.

[ghporter]

The 15 minute wait is actually supposed to be enforced for ANY vaccination. There is a non-zero chance that any individual will have an unpredictable and medically significant reaction to any injection.

Since these injections are supposed to get the attention of your immune system, they (any vaccination) might accidentally cause an over-reaction.

The chance is infinitesimal that any specific shot will cause a problem for someone who has never had a reaction, but not zero. So “sit over there and wait 15 minutes” is as standard as “sit and we’ll go over some things before I check your blood pressure” is supposed to be. Oh wait…. Yeah. That’s a pet peeve of mine too.

[andi*pandi]

second pfizer shot last week: sore arm and sleepy for a few days.

[subego]

Since they offered me a choice, it kinda set off my bullshit detectors. If there was any real possibility of a problem they would have suggested I stay, and given reasons.

That’s how it goes when you donate blood. They strongly suggest you stay and that you might pass out if you don’t.

I always split anyways.

[reader50]

They asked me to wait 15 minutes both times. Didn't watch us closely, which tells me it's routine. They haven't seen any bad reactions, or they'd be more focused on watching us.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

So “sit over there and wait 15 minutes” is as standard as “sit and we’ll go over some things before I check your blood pressure” is supposed to be.

Do they really do that? Go over your billing info and account balances, just in case, before taking your blood pressure? What a dirty trick - likely to produce elevated readings.

[subego]

Ow, my arm.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Do they really do that? Go over your billing info and account balances, just in case, before taking your blood pressure? What a dirty trick - likely to produce elevated readings.

With me (when they do it), it’s more like “let’s go over your list of meds…are you still taking X?” Then they go over the stuff like “do you feel safe at home” and “do you use alcohol or tobacco?” Of course this is the technician or nurse gathering info for the practitioner, but getting the blood pressure is part of that too.

[Thorzdad]

My blood pressure can vary greatly between taking it when I arrive for an appointment and later in the appointment. My docs call it “white coat syndrome”. Basically just being at the docs office can get my BP up.

[ghporter]

That can happen to anyone, especially if you’re concerned that it might be high.

The only way to gather useful data is to collect that data in a consistent, structured manner: Science 101.

Unfortunately, time pressures and simply not taking this measurement seriously lead to people rushing, not providing the universally recognized seated rest time, and even rounding the numbers they measure. I’m omitting the lengthy diatribe I could add about what the validity of fudged numbers says about the person fudging them…

[subego]

Arm’s still sore, and yesterday was very sleepy and blah, but that seems to have been the worst of it.

[andi*pandi]

Sounds like you joined the Pfizer Pfanatics.

[subego]

Yes ma’am! T-minus 11 days to rejoining society.

[ghporter]

I'm sure your critique of the 5G performance you get from those Pfizer injections will be as scathing as mine was.

[MacNNFamous]

Well, this sucks. CDC just lifted all guidelines on masks "if you are vaccinated". PRoblem is over half the country isn't vaccinated, and these ****ing mouth breathers will refuse it just to be like HA I WAS FINE I DINT NEED NO VACCINE CUZ I AINT A PUSSY

GF is still immunocompromised cuz cancer medicine so I guess I am stuck at home forever then, **** me, right?

[subego]

GF can’t get vaccinated?

[MacNNFamous]

Oh she can and did, but anti cancer drugs give her an immune system with 1/4 the white blood cells of a normal person... so.... yeah, better than nothing, but only like 50% protected against the main strain, and less against hte other strains. ****ing sucks. I'm so sick of being trapped at home.

[MacNNFamous]

CDC:
"Go back to normal, masks not needed as long as everyone is vaccinated but we know not even half the population is vaccinated, YOLO"

Also CDC:
"People who have a condition or are taking medications that weaken the immune system, should talk to their healthcare provider to discuss their activities. They may need to keep taking all precautions to prevent COVID-19."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...accinated.html

[ghporter]

Not if she’s being treated for cancer. Most chemo impairs the immune system, often severely. In a clinical situation, we’d put such patients on “reverse isolation”; we’d gown up to protect the patient from us.

The CDC’s guidance is hopeful for some things. But it’s not some law. I’m going to continue wearing a mask for quite some time. I’m fully vaccinated, I’m quite healthy, but since I just had a major surgery I’m at risk for all sorts of issues. Even a “minor infection” could lead to a life threatening infection. I can’t even have a dental cleaning for another 6 months, and for the next year (at least) I’ll need to take antibiotics before such dental work. I do not need any problems caused by Joe Mouthbreather’s conspiracy theories.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by MacNNFamous 

PRoblem is over half the country isn't vaccinated, and these ****ing mouth breathers will refuse it just to be like HA I WAS FINE I DINT NEED NO VACCINE CUZ I AINT A PUSSY

Authorities may have solved the problem, by offering a free beer to anyone getting their shot. Another free beer in 3-4 weeks for the 2nd shot.

Free beers in Buffalo
Shot and a Beer in New Jersey.

Seems to be working. The shots are rolling. Oh, and the vaccinations too.

[andi*pandi]

Maine is offering LLBean gift cards to those getting a vaccine.

Cash, sorry about the GF. They lifted the restrictions because everyone was all "what's the point of vaccination if I still have to wear a mask, lol" but now of course the reaction is "WHEEE I CAN DO WHATEVER".

Although I must say it's nice walking the dog without a mask.

13YO gets first shot tomorrow.

[subego]

Originally Posted by MacNNFamous 

Oh she can and did, but anti cancer drugs give her an immune system with 1/4 the white blood cells of a normal person... so.... yeah, better than nothing, but only like 50% protected against the main strain, and less against hte other strains. ****ing sucks. I'm so sick of being trapped at home.

Got it. Total ****ing drag.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by MacNNFamous 

Oh she can and did, but anti cancer drugs give her an immune system with 1/4 the white blood cells of a normal person... so.... yeah, better than nothing, but only like 50% protected against the main strain, and less against hte other strains. ****ing sucks. I'm so sick of being trapped at home.

Oh man, that sucks. Is she on the medication indefinitely, or is there at least a fixed schedule with a planned end of treatment?

Not trying to seem callous; a good friend was treated for breast cancer last year, and she was on a treatment plan that put her off meds and back to work on a clear schedule (provided she responded as expected to the medication).

[Thorzdad]

FWIW, my wife will be on cancer meds for at least the next five years. Breast cancer. Lumpectomy back in January. No chemo, though.