Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 12:43 PM

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....ticle_id=4206#

Indeed.

Drifter · Jun 28, 2004, 12:47 PM

One word. I mean acronym.
LSM
Liberal Selective Memory.
"Oh my God, panties on that poor Iraqis head!"
To be honest, people do **** like that at a bachelor party.
350-1,000,000 people slaughtered, raped, tortured, and mutilated.
[whistling]

zachs · Jun 28, 2004, 12:50 PM

I've read/seen many accounts of Saddam's torture. In one case, they tied a man's hand's to a fan and his feet to a stake in the ground, then turned the fan on. They also used to drag prisoners naked through gravel, then throw them in sewer water.

The U.S. prison abuse/torture certainly pales in comparison; that said, neither should shouldn't have happened.

PacHead · Jun 28, 2004, 12:51 PM

1,000,000 Dead ?

<<PacHead puts on Liberal blindfolds>>

Bah, nothing to worry about, nothing to see here. Move along.

Let's go start a thread about them pink panties instead.

Drifter · Jun 28, 2004, 12:55 PM

And it's a VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY!
Victoria's Secret is in a deal with then Neo-Cons to subliminally advertise for thongs and panties to the evil military!
I smell a new Mickey Moore movie!

zachs · Jun 28, 2004, 12:57 PM

So, tell me...who doesn't care about the Iraqis tortured/killed under Saddam?

effgee · Jun 28, 2004, 01:08 PM

Well quoted. Now what? Is that supposed to be the new benchmark for the Bush administration?

"See? Even the Irakee dude said that what we did to the Irakees wasn't as bad as what Hussein did to them."

Brilliant.

Millennium · Jun 28, 2004, 02:32 PM

Saddam's methods of torture may have been more extreme, but that does not negate the torture that went on at Abu Ghraib. It may be an improvement, but torture is a case where incremental improvement is unacceptable: it must all be stopped.

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 02:48 PM

I agree all needs stopped.

I was referring to some in here that acted like atrocities were being taken place.

You know, the drama queens.

swrate · Jun 28, 2004, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I agree all needs stopped.

I was referring to some in here that acted like atrocities were being taken place.

You know, the drama queens.

were being taken, meditation war being taken?

yes right why, Zimp haven't atrocities taken place?In a scale of minuses, let's graduate horror.

Is that you behind bars? Because Clinton has white hair....

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by swrate:
were being taken, meditation war being taken?

yes right why, Zimp haven't atrocities taken place?In a scale of minuses, let's graduate horror.

Huh? I know I am not the best when it comes to grammar... but that is unreadable.

Is that you behind bars? Because Clinton has white hair....

I didn't take the pic swrate. And yes, that is Clinton.

swrate · Jun 28, 2004, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:

Huh? I know I am not the best when it comes to grammar... but that is unreadable.

I didn't take the pic swrate. And yes, that is Clinton. [/B]

thanks for the laugh, I neeeded it. merci.
the fist "sentence" was a parody.

you: I was referring to some in here that acted like atrocities were being taken place.
me: were being taken, meditation war being taken?

Ok, if you don't get it never mind, as Kurt used to say,

I knew you didn't take the pic, but at first I thought it was you behind bars, sorry.

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by swrate:
thanks for the laugh, I neeeded it. merci.
the fist "sentence" was a parody.

I wasn't trying to make you laugh. I was just trying to understand your post. It didn't make any sense.

you: I was referring to some in here that acted like atrocities were being taken place.

Ok, again, the first part makes sense.

me: were being taken, meditation war being taken?

The second, does not.

Ok, if you don't get it never mind, as Kurt used to say,

I don't get it because you aren't making sense. If English isn't your first language, that's ok.

I knew you didn't take the pic, but at first I thought it was you behind bars, sorry.

Why would you think that pic was of me?

swrate · Jun 28, 2004, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:

I wasn't trying to make you laugh. I was just trying to understand your post. It didn't make any sense.
[/b]
Ok, again, the first part makes sense.
[/b]
The second, does not.
[/b]
I don't get it because you aren't making sense. If English isn't your first language, that's ok.

Why would you think that pic was of me? [/B]

Why does the sentence not make sense? Because it's a parody.
Why do I think it's a pic of you? Because, again, it's a parody.

English is my very first language,

until age 4, but then you can argue with that too if you wish. lol
But then, again, you may neither understand my english, nor my parodies.

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by swrate:

Yes, that is how I feel reading your posts.

Why does the sentence not make sense? Because it's a parody.

Parody's make sense. Your sentence did not.

Why do I think it's a pic of you? Because, again, it's a parody.

Ok, that didn't make sense either.

But then, again, you may neither understand my english, nor my parodies.

Maybe I would understand your "parodies" if you made sense.

effgee · Jun 28, 2004, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I agree all needs stopped. I was referring to some in here that acted like atrocities were being taken place. You know, the drama queens.

Once again, you're absolutely right - only a real drama queen would get upset about frat jokes like this one:

Thank god this is not an atrocity - who should give a sh!t about a dead towelhead anyway?

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 04:06 PM

Again, more Drama Queening.

zachs · Jun 28, 2004, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Again, more Drama Queening.

Let me guess...perspective?

swrate · Jun 28, 2004, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by zachs:
Let me guess...perspective?

absolutly, I am a drama queen, and I am OUT of here,
merci, bonsoir

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by zachs:
Let me guess...perspective?

You got it sugar tits.

bleuvixen · Jun 28, 2004, 04:24 PM

Seems perfectly acceptable to me.

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 04:27 PM

Looks like a frat initiation to me.

Actually Frats are even worse.

Those guys should be glad they weren't pledging!

bleuvixen · Jun 28, 2004, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Those guys should be glad they weren't pledging!

Isn't that the whole point?
or does willingness mean nothing?

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by bleuvixen:
Isn't that the whole point?
or does willingness mean nothing?

So do you think we rounded up innocent people and put them there?

They CHOOSE to be in there with their actions against the liberation.

bleuvixen · Jun 28, 2004, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
So do you think we rounded up innocent people and put them there?

They CHOOSE to be in there with their actions against the liberation.

And that should have been the end of it. It wouldn't be ok to treat US prisioners in this manner, why is it ok to treat iraqis in this manner?

While in combat is one thing, after capture and secured in a complex is another.
The invaders took it too far.

What would you say if things were turned around?

zachs · Jun 28, 2004, 04:36 PM

From Time (subscription required):

A House of Horrors

The trouble at abu ghraib was a long time brewing. The 260-acre prison complex lies behind tall walls off a highway 20 miles west of Baghdad. In the days of Saddam it housed thousands of criminals and political prisoners who were subjected to unspeakable torture at the whim of the regime. The U.S. military decided to reopen the prison last August for all Iraqis being detained and renamed it the Baghdad Correctional Facility. But reminders of the prison's grim history were inescapable. From the ceiling of each 10-ft.-by-12-ft. cell still dangled a large hook, which had been used to hang inmates from their hands or feet. Waleed Sabih al-Delami, detained after soldiers found suspicious wires near his house, tells Time the Americans picked up where Saddam left off. He says he was suspended from such a hook three times during his five-month stint in U.S. custody at Abu Ghraib. His feet were tied, and his arms were bound behind his back. "They would take a stick and put it through the rope and pull me off the ground," he says. While he was bound and suspended, a military translator stood by him, shouting: "You are a terrorist! You are a terrorist!" But no real questioning took place.

[...]

Freed detainees have scores of horror stories to tell. Though most of the accounts have not been corroborated, the scandal makes anything seem possible. Nabil Shakar Abdul Razaq al-Taiee, 54, a retired electrical worker who was arrested last December, told Time that as recently as March, he witnessed soldiers beating prisoners, including a mentally unstable man who was thrown in a shipping container and pummeled and taunted for days. Another former prisoner, Mohammed Unis Hassan, was arrested by U.S. forces for looting a bank last July. He told Time of a seven-month odyssey through the prison system that included beatings, humiliation and soldiers having sex with female detainees. At the Baghdad airport holding pen, he laughed at interrogators who asked if he knew which terrorists were exploding bombs. When he failed to provide information, they beat him with a cable or a riot stick on the back of the legs. He saw U.S. soldiers strip the clothes off a fellow inmate and put their feet on his head, making him lie naked on the ground for hours. Mohammed claimed that prisoners, angered by the death of an old man forced to lie on his face, loosened a tent pole and hit a U.S. soldier so hard that "he died."

Eventually Mohammed, 24, wound up in a cell at Abu Ghraib, where he was beaten for hiding a pack of cigarettes. A woman soldier that he recalled as "so beautiful" pushed his arms through the bars of the cell and cuffed them so tightly he couldn't move. Then, he says, she poked his eye with her finger so hard he couldn't see afterward. Three months after the incident, Mohammed's left eye was gray and glassy, allowing only modest vision of blurry shapes. He says the guards at Abu Ghraib drank whisky and walked the halls with cans of beer. And he says he saw an American guard having regular sex with an Iraqi woman prisoner on the floor above and across the hall from his cell.

bleuvixen · Jun 28, 2004, 04:37 PM

If this was a frat then this guy has had it good so-far!

gatekeeper · Jun 28, 2004, 04:38 PM

Why do we need defense lawyers in the US? If people are accused of doing something illegal they are obviously guilty. Otherwise they wouldn't have been accused in the first place

bleuvixen · Jun 28, 2004, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by gatekeeper:
Why do we need defense lawyers in the US? If people are accused of doing something illegal they are obviously guilty. Otherwise they wouldn't have been accused in the first place

Spliffdaddy · Jun 28, 2004, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by bleuvixen:
(snip)
What would you say if things were turned around?

things are *always* turned around.

so I reckon we'd say what we *always* say when American prisoners are mistreated.

hellooo....we're the *only* nation that doesn't normally mistreat prisoners.

geez. why do you think there was such an uproar when *we* did it?

gatekeeper · Jun 28, 2004, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by zachs:
A House of Horrors

Sounds like a frat initiation to me.

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by bleuvixen:
And that should have been the end of it. It wouldn't be ok to treat US prisioners in this manner, why is it ok to treat iraqis in this manner?

While in combat is one thing, after capture and secured in a complex is another.
The invaders took it too far.

I never said it was ok to do these things. I am saying the left is being Drama Queens and overacting to what happened. YES these things shouldn't happen. YES the people responsible should be punished. But are these great atrocities? NO. These aren't even as bad as Frat initiations.

What would you say if things were turned around?

What do you mean if? If we are caught, we are beheaded. I am sure those that got their heads lobbed off with a dull knife would trade places with these yahoos any day.

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
things are *always* turned around.

so I reckon we'd say what we *always* say when American prisoners are mistreated.

hellooo....we're the *only* nation that doesn't normally mistreat prisoners.

geez. why do you think there was such an uproar when *we* did it?

phoenixboy70 · Jun 28, 2004, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
hellooo....we're the *only* nation that doesn't normally mistreat prisoners.

bwahahahahahahahaah. what a JOKE!!!!!!

Zimphire · Jun 28, 2004, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
bwahahahahahahahaah. what a JOKE!!!!!!

Er, it's true.

And !!!!!!! (<---- added to make sure you know it's true)

phoenixboy70 · Jun 28, 2004, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
NO. These aren't even as bad as Frat initiations.

well, at least the people at frat initiations deserve to be treated in such a manner.

chabig · Jun 28, 2004, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
1,000,000 Dead ?

<<nothing to see here. Move along.

You mean "MoveOn".

Chris

phoenixboy70 · Jun 28, 2004, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Er, it's true.

errr...ONLY country that normally doesn't???

suuuure.

gitmo??? oh, right, they aren't prisoners of war.

effgee · Jun 28, 2004, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
So do you think we rounded up innocent people and put them there? They CHOOSE to be in there with their actions against the liberation.

Have you been living under a rock? Do you work as a research assistant for Rush Limbaugh? Either way, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. This is just one of literally dozens of articles on the topic.

But overall, nice attitude - "cynical" hardly describes it. "Borderline disgusting" is more like it. I suggest you grab (and read) a copy of the report authored by Gen. Taguba and then look up the definition of "atrocity".

Following that I recommend you put the dunce cap back on and stand in the corner for at least an hour (preferably on top of a little wooden box)

Spliffdaddy · Jun 28, 2004, 04:57 PM

if i was a gitmo prisoner I'd be happy to be alive.

perspective.

they could have saved a lot of trouble by killing me, instead.

itai195 · 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I never said it was ok to do these things. I am saying the left is being Drama Queens and overacting to what happened. YES these things shouldn't happen. YES the people responsible should be punished. But are these great atrocities? NO. These aren't even as bad as Frat initiations.

Wow, well that makes me feel a lot better. Not as bad as frat initiations... For how long as the US government been officially involved in administering frat initiations [on unwilling people]?

Who cares about the attrocity-not attrocity debate. It's just another attempt to obfuscate the issue at hand by arguing over euphemisms. When you play that card, you've already lost the political debate.

zachs · Jun 28, 2004, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by effgee:
Have you been living under a rock? Do you work as a research assistant for Rush Limbaugh? Either way, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. This is just one of literally dozens of articles on the topic.

But overall, nice attitude - "cynical" hardly describes it. "Borderline disgusting" is more like it. I suggest you grab (and read) a copy of the report authored by Gen. Taguba and then look up the definition of "atrocity".

Following that I recommend you put the dunce cap back on and stand in the corner for at least an hour (preferably on top of a little wooden box)

Here's the link to the Taguba Report for easy reference.

phoenixboy70 · Jun 28, 2004, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
if i was a gitmo prisoner I'd be happy to be alive.

they could have saved a lot of trouble by killing me, instead.

LOL. you are just the biggest fascist ever.

actually, if things turn out well, we will see you and the rest of the neocon a55clown brigade in gitmo in the future. that's exactly where you guys belong.

zachs · Jun 28, 2004, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
if i was a gitmo prisoner I'd be happy to be alive.

perspective.

they could have saved a lot of trouble by killing me, instead.

You know, everyone around me should be happy to be alive.

After all, I could kill them, but I don't.

effgee · Jun 28, 2004, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
if i was a gitmo prisoner I'd be happy to be alive. perspective. they could have saved a lot of trouble by killing me, instead.

Heh - you wish. First, they're going to sue the living crap out of the Bush admin. And after that, they're going to collect monetary damages - paid for with your heard-earned tax $$$.

Now, that's what I call poetic justice.

PacHead · Jun 28, 2004, 05:13 PM

You know, it's time we did something about those Gitmo people. The ones who are found guilty should just be executed, so we can just get it done with, and we will not have to listen to any alleged "torture" or "abuse" baloney that certain people are mistakingly alleging.

Spliffdaddy · Jun 28, 2004, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by zachs:
You know, everyone around me should be happy to be alive.

After all, I could kill them, but I don't.

ditto.

some of them thank me from time to time.

kinda heartwarming in a small meaningless way.

zachs · Jun 28, 2004, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
You know, it's time we did something about those Gitmo people. The ones who are found guilty should just be executed, so we can just get it done with, and we will not have to listen to any alleged "torture" or "abuse" baloney that certain people are mistakingly alleging.

To find someone guilty, you'd have to charge them with something first.

So far, only 2 out of 600 have been charged with anything.

Millennium · Jun 28, 2004, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Looks like a frat initiation to me.

Yes, and in case you've forgotten, this type of ritualized torture is illegal under federal law, even in the case of frat initiations. That's because some people have realized that torture is not okay under any circumstances, when when it's "consensual".

PacHead · Jun 28, 2004, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by zachs:
To find someone guilty, you'd have to charge them with something first.

So far, only 2 out of 600 have been charged with anything.

On the other hand, the enemy has not capitulated yet, so even if the war were to go on for 20 more years, we have a good reason for keeping them under lock until the war is over.

I do hope they start charging/executing people soon, but I don't believe that we have any rush.