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analogika · May 31, 2008, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Here's a new one: when is Apple going to make this damn OS resolution-independent?

I truly feel sorry for some of the developers that followed Apple's advice for resolution-independence and spent time dicking around resolution independent icons so that they'd be ready for Leopard. ef' you, Apple. Some developers should take this to court because Apple was pushing devs in the back to get the apps rez-independent and Apple never delivered rez-independence and thus wasting development time on stupid GUI tweaks that might never been seen in 10.5.

As I recall, the timeframe was NEVER 10.5 RELEASE. Ever.

Developers were told from the start that they should be ready for resolution independence sometime in 2008.

Jonesy · May 31, 2008, 05:27 AM

Still no fix for the issue with Front Row on certain Macs. I have a new MacPro, so don't tell me that only fixes for new machines are added. I cannot view any online movie trailers as I am told that my computer is not connected to the internet. This flaw is recognised by Apple and publishes a work-around. I had hoped for a proper fix in 10.5.3. They have had plenty of time.

Horsepoo!!! · May 31, 2008, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

As I recall, the timeframe was NEVER 10.5 RELEASE. Ever.

Developers were told from the start that they should be ready for resolution independence sometime in 2008.

Actually the target used to be on 10.5's release...then it was pushed to 'sometime in 2008'.

I still really, really doubt this is going to happen. One thing I predicted is happening though...insanely large updates (not for the reason I originally predicted which was how updates would be large because new .nibs and resolution-independent artwork would have to be downloaded in 10.5.x update). So far, none of the non-resolution-independent artwork has been touched...so get ready for more small-CD-size-updates in the future.

TETENAL · May 31, 2008, 09:10 AM

It's going to happen, but it might well not happen in Leopard.

zerostar · May 31, 2008, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

What's really aggravating is people using Adobe products complaining about problems...as if they weren't asking for trouble.

Its not an Adobe problem AFAIK. It is an Apple problem, worked fine in OS9 all the way to 10.4 (where it was broken) 10.4.1 fixed it and now 10.5.3 broke it again when they fuxed with the network stack.

Anyway, what program would you recommend I use for heavy photo & art editing & composition? I haven't found one better than Photoshop in all my years.

voodoo · May 31, 2008, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by zerostar

Its not an Adobe problem AFAIK. It is an Apple problem, worked fine in OS9 all the way to 10.4 (where it was broken) 10.4.1 fixed it and now 10.5.3 broke it again when they fuxed with the network stack.

It is an Apple problem like it was an Apple problem when Adobe apps didn't run on Intel natively on OS X because Apple changed the processors in the computers.

Anyway, what program would you recommend I use for heavy photo & art editing & composition? I haven't found one better than Photoshop in all my years.

By being the best it doesn't mean you don't suck. Take all serious contenders for the heavy photo & art editing & composition gig: there's only one.

Photoshop is the best and the worst. There is no other. Then take all semi-serious heavy photo & art editing & composition apps. A dozen? At most.

So Photoshop is in fact the best of a dozen or so and it doesn't really have any competition. Never had.

It isn't good. It's just the only choice.

zerostar · May 31, 2008, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by voodoo

It is an Apple problem like it was an Apple problem when Adobe apps didn't run on Intel natively on OS X because Apple changed the processors in the computers.

I guess the fact is Photoshop, Fireworks, Cinema 4D (a Maxon program) were all working FINE before this 10.5.3 update, now you can't seem to edit a file on a AFP share without them becoming corrupt. Apple changed something and this isn't the first time, I bet Apple will issue a fix (if Adobe issues the fix I will eat my words, but from all gathering this is, in fact, an Apple problem.

By being the best it doesn't mean you don't suck.... (clip)

It isn't good. It's just the only choice.

I would have to disagree, Photoshop is one of the most stable, backwards compatible, highly capable programs I use, I have used it for almost my entire career, ranging from Photoshop 2 up until CS3, never had any corruption issues or problems opening, editing or outputting a file. In fact, I would say I love all the Adobe suites, and having converted now my 4th staff to Adobe from Quark we are all that much more happier.

I would like to hear why you think Adobe, or more specifically Photoshop sucks?

Horsepoo!!! · May 31, 2008, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by zerostar

I would have to disagree, Photoshop is one of the most stable, backwards compatible, highly capable programs I use, I have used it for almost my entire career, ranging from Photoshop 2 up until CS3, never had any corruption issues or problems opening, editing or outputting a file. In fact, I would say I love all the Adobe suites, and having converted now my 4th staff to Adobe from Quark we are all that much more happier.

Do you know why Photoshop runs mostly stable? Because Apple is working its ass off to support such a legacy POS software. Adobe's refusal to adopt any of Apple's latest APIs is making Apple work overtime on Carbon tweaks and exceptions just so that Photoshop's System 7 era code works on their OS. Well, until recently, were they got tired of Adobe's attitude and bullying ... Apple decided to pull the plug on 64-bit Carbon and probably won't be working on improving Carbon much longer.

Don Pickett · May 31, 2008, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by zerostar

I would like to hear why you think Adobe, or more specifically Photoshop sucks?

Well, I have been using Photoshop since version 1, and Illustrator since Illustrator 88, and, like most people I know, I have a love/hate relationship with Photoshop. Most of this stems from the changes which happened when the guys who founded Adobe sold the company and the new, bean-counting group took over. Since then the company's profit model seems to be forcing new versions on its users every other year whether we need them or not, and adding lots of new "features", about 10% of which are really usable.

Now, specific problems? There are some very basic things which Adobe has never seen to fix; why does Photoshop's color engine still clip the gamut when converting between color spaces? This has been a known (and quite serious) problem since Photoshop 6, and yet Adobe has never seen fit to address it. It's such a deep-seated problem that most people don't even realize it's a problem and think that's just the way things work. Those of us who do color correction have long since figured out how to work around the problem, but the central issue is still there: why leave something so basically stupid in the middle of your color engine?

Why does Illustrator still produce postscript code which is so prone to corruption? If you want an example, make a graph in Illustrator. Save it, open it and change the data. Do this again. After the third or fourth time the graph will start getting wonky: text sizes wrong, objects places in the wrong place, etc. We've all seen this problem in one way or another: a client gives you an .eps file which can't be open because it's corrupt, or you have to spend two hours tracking down which .eps has gone south and is stopping your document from printing. And yet Adobe has done almost no work on Illustrator's basic features in years and years, instead spending time adding various features of questionable use and making the program a bloated mess.

Why has Adobe not updated Illustrator's graphing features in years? Despite the fact that graphing is one of Illustrator's most important features (just about any graph or chart you seen in any publication or online is done in Illustrator) it has been all but ignored since version 5. In the corporate world this is one of Illustrator's most important killer features, and yet Adobe seems to be more interested in adding a custom brush in the shape of Bambi than in upgrading it.

When will Adobe stop rearranging the menu items in Acrobat with every release? When will ID become feature complete with Quark? When will they fix ID's interface so it's not destructive? When will ID3 finally play nice with Leopard?

And on and on.

I would have to disagree, Photoshop is one of the most stable, backwards compatible, highly capable programs

Stable? Depends. Backwards compatible? True. Capable? True again, as there's nothing which works like Photoshop. That said, the CS suite has its share of problems and quirks, and I have been in this business too long to trust that Adobe really has my best interests at heart.

ibook_steve · May 31, 2008, 02:37 PM

This thread is about 10.5.3, not Photoshop or Adobe. Take it to the Applications forum if you want to discuss this.

Steve

Horsepoo!!! · May 31, 2008, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by ibook_steve

This thread is about 10.5.3, not Photoshop or Adobe. Take it to the Applications forum if you want to discuss this.

Steve

Nobody has actually talked about 10.5.3 so far...this thread was DoA.

analogika · May 31, 2008, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Nobody has actually talked about 10.5.3 so far...this thread was DoA.

You haven't been reading this thread.

turtle777 · May 31, 2008, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Nobody has actually talked about 10.5.3 so far...this thread was DoA.

This is a wrong statement.

At least half of this thread is unrelated to PS.

-t

ghporter · May 31, 2008, 08:15 PM

I've had no problems at all with the update, and I've been using my iMac with the update for a couple of days now. Nothing that other people have described as badness has happened to me with it at all. Which has me worried. Is there something I should look at beyond the "default color calibrations", the "menubar" issue, or other issues (like with Time Machine-which I don't use at present-or .mac-which I also don't use) that are likely to sneak up on me?

mduell · May 31, 2008, 09:16 PM

I can't install QuickTime 7.4.5 after upgrading to 10.5.3... doing so leaves me in an endless loop when it goes to reboot. When I force the restart, I'm left in an unknown state (did the install finish? will running it again work? no one knows) so I just format and try again. Works fine under 10.5.1 from the MBA install DVD.

lpkmckenna · May 31, 2008, 09:17 PM

Well, I finally updated to 10.5.3. It hosed my PowerBook, the second Leopard update to do so. DiskWarrior fixed it all, fortunately.

AKcrab · May 31, 2008, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Well, I finally updated to 10.5.3. It hosed my PowerBook, the second Leopard update to do so. DiskWarrior fixed it all, fortunately.

To help others... What type of update did you do? Standard software update, or did you download the combo updater? You say "hosed", can you be more specific?

lpkmckenna · May 31, 2008, 11:10 PM

Hosed: my computer wouldn't boot. Standard update, was over 400 MBs. I'm too lazy to download the combo updates.

Horsepoo!!! · May 31, 2008, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

This is a wrong statement.

At least half of this thread is unrelated to PS.

-t

You're right...it's related to the update process...and not the update itself.

chrismorse · Jun 2, 2008, 11:06 AM

I installed this update today, updating from 10.5.2 on Dual 2ghz G5, 4.5Gb. It didn't take long, about 5mins from download to the time to start work again. The first thing i noticed that now doesn't work is FTP. I can't upload anything, it keeps stalling, I can download fine. But can't upload even a 28Kb file.

The 2nd thing i noticed was TM has been updating since 10:06, through to 14:43, where i clicked stopped back up... It's still 'stopping back up' at 16:04.

Repaired permissions (even if it doesn't make a blind bit of difference) this is what it said:

"Repairing permissions for “Macintosh HD”
Reading permissions database.
Reading the permissions database can take several minutes.

Permissions differ on "private/var/log/secure.log", should be -rw------- , they are -rw-r----- .
User differs on "System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/1.4.2/Home/lib/jvm.cfg", should be 0, user is 95.
User differs on "System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/1.4.2/Libraries/classlist", should be 0, user is 95.
Group differs on "private/etc/cups", should be 0, group is 26.

Permissions repair complete"

About to restart and see what happens... So far 10.5 has been a really poor, doesn't matter if its Apple or Adobe who are to blame, it's us who suffer and they both need to sort it out...

TETENAL · Jun 2, 2008, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by chrismorse

IThe first thing i noticed that now doesn't work is FTP. I can't upload anything, it keeps stalling, I can download fine. But can't upload even a 28Kb file.

The command line FTP or a third party one?

chrismorse · Jun 2, 2008, 11:35 AM

Third party, fetch & Transmit... Not sure how to use the command line FTP? :S

Chuckit · Jun 2, 2008, 01:19 PM

Have you tried it with multiple servers? That doesn't sound like something the OS upgrade would likely have caused.

silver · Jun 2, 2008, 01:39 PM

Just FTP'ed over 5 gigs from home to work and all is well, using Transmit. So for me from home to work FTP works fine.

JKT · Jun 2, 2008, 03:07 PM

Could it be a firewall issue?

osiris24x · Jun 2, 2008, 06:27 PM

Ran the update last night, took about 5 minutes. No issues so far.

Atheist · Jun 2, 2008, 09:14 PM

Ran the update yesterday on a Mac Mini (10.5.2 -> 10.5.3). Have had 3 kernel panics so far. Was running just fine on 10.5.2.

mattyb · Jun 3, 2008, 04:18 AM

Feb 2007, 20" iMac. Updated using a downloaded combo last weekend. No issues so far.

First time that I've used a combo (I'm a 15 month old switcher) - think that it'll be my SOP from now on.

Had a couple of Software updates after applying 10.5.3 like the al keyboard firmware and some iWork stuff.

chrismorse · Jun 3, 2008, 05:00 AM

Well time machine does appear to have started working from half five last night, so that issue seems to have resolved itself! And the FTP problem isn't fixed, i forgot to check from my home comp but my isp's website is down today so that could be an indication...

finalsortie · Jun 3, 2008, 02:20 PM

no problems.

Peter · Jun 4, 2008, 06:15 AM

do not use 10.5.3 with CS3. Totally breaks files (apparently, hasn't for me) saved on network shares.

analogika · Jun 4, 2008, 06:43 AM

Zerostar mentioned that on the previous page.

Don't use AFP; use SMB instead, and it should work normally.

chris v · Jun 4, 2008, 05:45 PM

I mounted my Powerbook's hard drive via the Finder, saved a PS CS3 file to it, opened it again, saved it, opened it again, and then a third time. File is still fine, so it's not a 100% thing.

My work G5 will no longer sleep after the 10.5.3 update. Monitors blank, but fans don't stop running. I'm gonna pull the fibre-channel card I'm not using and see if that has anything to do with it before I get too upset.