[waffffffle]

Remember those rumors that the next PowerBook was going to have a backlit keyboard? Well I don't have a TiBook, but I was hoping it would be possible to create a backlight for my Pismo Keyboard. I know that the Pismo's keyboard is very thin, but has anyone tried this? Can it be done? It seems like there's some room under the space bar for a few LEDs. It seems that a few well placed LEDs could provide enough light to see in the dark, or just look really cool. It would also be real cool if a small switch could be added, maybe could be accessed by taking of the keyboard, or it could be placed in the vent over on the leftside by the hard drive.

What do you guys think? I know Dr. Bob created is "Darth Maul" PowerBook by putting a red LED inside the Apple logo in his Wallstreet. He tapped the mic for power. That's why I think this is possible. It would be real cool.

That's what the nubbins on the "F" and "J" keys are for. so you can type w/o seeing.

[SupahCoolX]

But all the nubbins in the world won't help someone who can't touch type.

I would also like to register my interest in a backlit keyboard. Another possible solution would be to paint flourescent goo under the keys.

[Archangel]

Yeah, it would be sweet to have my iBook's keyboard backlit even if it sacrifices some power. I guess I could get some of that glow-in-the-dark paint, but that's a little on the low-tech side. . .is there any company that sells replacement keys that are glow-in-the-dark? That would be fairly easy to manufacture. If I had more circuitry experience, I would try doing something myself.

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"Elvis has left the building!"

[tullamore]

Don't even think about using LEDs just get an electroluminecent light just like those contained in comercial keypads. Only problem is that you would need to mount a small inverter somewhere because they take 120 V AC.

[pathogen]

Maybe the next revision of the ibook will have it. Though I hope the colour is relatively neutral and you can shut it off when you want. I'd prefer a green glow to the keys, definitly not red or blue.

------------------
Note: pathogen plays Uno with the rule that a pick-up 2 card played on a pick-up 2 card means the next person picks up 4; pick-up 2 cards on top of each- other are exponential. It's not in the rules.

[cyberfunk]

I would love a backlit keyboard, what are you talking about tullamore, I've never heard of these electroluminecent lights.. explain please?

[zac4mac]

did a sherlock search for "electroluminescent display" and got this... basically looking for a larger version of Timex Indiglo. Gotta go to work, if anybody finds anything promising, post.
http://www.v2gsol.globalsources.com/...ay&pi_ctry=ALL

Zack

[itomato]

http://home.earthlink.net/~richardinsd/thebiclite.html

This guy has a solution, though not pretty, and not suitable for a 'book without ADB. Although, it would be easy to make it USB..

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-- | T () /\/\ /\ T () --

[kidatari]

Check out Being Seen Tech http://www.beingseen.com/ . They specialize in EL cabling and sheeting, and I'm going to be getting an EL sheet to try and mount under my Ti keyboard and power off usb or firewire.

Please someone figure this out!!! (in a ti)

[zac4mac]

Just talked to Ed at Being Seen tech. and it sounds REAL PROMISING.
Gonna take my pro-keyboard apart in the next couple of days and get measurements. If this works, I'll post a photo of the finished project.
Yeah!, I'm psyched now.

[tonton]

Uhh... I'm not sure there's an inverter small enough to fit inside the Ti... is there?

[t6hawk]

Originally posted by zac4mac:
Just talked to Ed at Being Seen tech. and it sounds REAL PROMISING.
Gonna take my pro-keyboard apart in the next couple of days and get measurements. If this works, I'll post a photo of the finished project.
Yeah!, I'm psyched now.

If you do get the Pro-Keyboard wired up please also post the steps/instructions you took =) I would like to backlight my Pro-Keyboard too.

Thanks

Firstly you'd need SUPER-CHARGED LEDs. Ordinary LEDs wouldn't provide enough light and they're too big.

Secondly, these SC LEDs are really small and so cheap. They are the type of LEDs used in USB hubs, the Mac's power button, printers, and traffic lights.

Play it cool



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[t6hawk]

If you are buying from BeingSeen.com be wary. There are other sites with better prices on some items.

http://www.coolight.com/

http://www.coolwireusa.com/

http://www.elprode.com.sg/lyteca.asp#

[This message has been edited by t6hawk (edited 04-21-2001).]

[zac4mac]

t6-
Checked your links and they are all EL wire. I've been looking for EL sheet like at "being seen". I haven't seen any others and the price isn't too bad for what I want.
It is starting to look rather daunting tho. Got the keyboard apart today. Damm there's a lot of screws in there. I did get all the cookie crumbs out finally tho, lol.

Looks like a 5" by 17 or 18 " strip will do the area under the keys. Physically feasable but troublesome. Power is the next hurdle.
OK, I've got 5v @500mA available on USB, and there's a little room for extra electronics if necessary on the back side.

This HAS to look good if I'm gonna do it. It's a Mac.

[This message has been edited by zac4mac (edited 04-22-2001).]

[itomato]

This guy: http://members.tripod.com/mrpcbman/backlight.htm <fixed the link> has hacked white backlights into Newtons, and offers a little info on the E.L. film. The procedure is entirely Newtonian, but with a little imagination, it's not too hard to imagine the procedure adapted for iBook.

Not much mentioned in the way of power requirements, but if a Newton can do it, the power from USB should be pretty close, I'd think.

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-- | T () /\/\ /\ T () --

[This message has been edited by itomato (edited 04-24-2001).]

[This message has been edited by itomato (edited 04-24-2001).]

[waffffffle]

itomato, the link doesn't work

[smic]

remove the 'l' in the .html so its .htm

[no use for a nick]

I'd kill for a backlit pro keyboard. This is a hack that must happen! I'll beg, plead and even pay to see it come to fruition. Let's get on it.

nick

[mkd]

Ok, so even if I do get some EL wire, and do a crappy job stringing it under my iBook's keyboard, how do I get power to it?

------------------

-Morgan Davis
--
Windows:
A 32 bit graphical interface for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system internally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor written by a 2 bit company that cannot stand 1 bit of competition.


[This message has been edited by mkd (edited 04-27-2001).]

[zac4mac]

I'd think it'd be a lot easier job on a laptop keyboard, less stuff to take apart to get to the bottom. Biggest problem with a portable IS gonna be power, due to space constraints, if you have to use an inverter, you're probably SOL. The other side of the coin is, you have a much wider variety of voltages in the iBook than in a pro-keyboard. It will need to be switched also, or your battery life is gonna go in the crapper.
more on this later

Z

[Gaijin]

A backlit keyboard for the Ti would be really awesome!

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Stand tall and shake the heavens!

[WinsOBoogi]

So when is someone finalyl going to make one of these? All talk and no productivity!

Just joking, of course

-Brad

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"And after Adam and Eve ate the Apple, God punished Bill Gates by making him look like a turtle."

[t6hawk]

My friend and I have ordered about $150 worth of the luminescent wiring a week ago, but we are not planning on backlighting a keyboard as mentioned above with EL sheets ... we are going to leave it as a surprise for now but once we get all the luminescent wiring installed we will post a bunch of picts here. Just have to wait now for the package to arrive ... damn UPS is slow ...

Here's a link similar to iTomato's.

It's a USB powered snake-lite for laptops. Though not as cool as a backlit keyboard.
http://www.kensington.com/products/pro_cas_d1334.html

Try this link for a decent snake-light at a good price, from MCE:
http://store.powerbook1.com/mceusbflex.html

$19 is a helluva lot cheaper than others have suggested and just as useful.

[tonton]

How is MCE's $19.99 "a heluva lot cheaper" than Kensington's $19.99? And the Kensington light is gorgeous (except that it doesn't come with a shade), while the MCE light is just plain mold-line translucent plastic butt ugly. And does the MCE light use an LED or a bulb? If it's a bulb it'll really screw your battery life. Jeez. I just read the MCE description and it uses "only 10% of your battery life"! That's a lot more than the flylight.

This
"Uses only 10% of your battery life!"

or this
"Uses less than 90 seconds per hour of battery charge."

[t6hawk]

Originally posted by Cute & Cuddly 'Moron Guy':
Try this link for a decent snake-light at a good price, from MCE:
http://store.powerbook1.com/mceusbflex.html

$19 is a helluva lot cheaper than others have suggested and just as useful.

I take it you mean that the $19 is cheaper than the EL Sheets / Luminescent Wire? That is true but a backlit keyboard is something else... unique maybe?

[zac4mac]

OK, the EL sheet is on order. I have product release tests at work all next week, but this should start to take shape in the next two weeks.
The sheet is 6"x16" and is ice blue. It will take an external power brick to run a sheet this big, couldn't use the USB power. Cross your fingers. Pix will be posted.

tset

[wumeng]

Well, you could impregnate the keyboard with a radio-luminescent substance like radioactive tritium. That might exceed even the now-legendary flaming battery in sheer disaster though...

[chadbattles]

OK..I have used EL panels in a few projects recently and can tell you that the EL panel does not use 120 V as a previous poster says but is current AND voltage dependant. A company called ELtech sent me about 20 samples and some inverters and the inclosed info states on a graph these specs--- at 12V DC with 125MA you can drive 20 square inches of EL panels Thats only 5inches by two inches and I beleive you would need 4x12 which is 52 sq. inches/ requiring @ constant 1A of power at 6Vdc. Also frequency(RMS) is important (hence the inverter {these chips convert DC to AC}). at 1000HZ at 50V RMS you get about 5 Ft.-L brightness. Most of you guys are over yer heads here, and LEDs dont spread enough with such a short focal length.
If you are still determined (which would be cool) you can buy SMD inverters which are small enough to fit into a watch or cell phone, meaning of course that size is not a factor in your design.

[zac4mac]

Got the sheet and inverter on the 20th.
Expensive, but not as bad as I thought. It's not my style normally, but I didn't even ask when I ordered it.
6"x16", but will lose some area to holes for the keys. Still, power will have to be external, USB can't handle this.
I will probably bring power in with a plug next to the USB cable... Hmmm, maybe I'll convert the left USB jack to power the sheet.
Hope to start on it after Memorial Day weekend, going up into the mountains.
It will definitely be a weekend project.

Chad- a couple of questions-
Does the length matter on the output side of the inverter?(at this low freq, I would think not)
How do I change the intensity of the panel?
I have a long background in electronics, but am new to EL.

Z

[chadbattles]

The length Should not matter, however, brightness is related to Voltage AND frequency. At 1000 hz the panel will put out about twice the light intensity as 400 hz for the same rms increasing then with voltage, at 60 hz an increase of voltage has a negligible effect on intensity. also efficiency goes down with an increase in rms voltage...keep in mind that your EL will drain ~1.5 mA per sq. inch.
Have you seen the simulated UL panels made from a flat layer of fiber optics? This was shown to me by a friend and is powered simply by LED's. The lighting across the surface is not as evenly distributed, but maybe you could rig an LED at each end. Might be able to run off of the battery then. Oh and listen, you will find that when you cut the EL panel, the exposed edges are liable to shock you, with a 9V battery this is minor, but on 120V this could really suck for both you and your computer, the effect is like a continuous discharge of a capacitor.

[zac4mac]

Hooked it up just a bit ago, used the P/S from an external drive case.
I have a 1kHz inverter and at 5 volts, the panel is dim and slightly mottled.
At 12 volts it is bright and more evenly lit.
This is gonna look good in the Pro-keyboard.
According to Ed at BeingSeen, cut edges on the EL need to be sealed with tape to not only protect from shock, but to prevent creeping degradation of the EL. Dunno if it oxidizes or what, but in the end, there should be no raw edges.

The flat fiber sounds interesting, got a vendor? That sounds like a better solution for a portable than EL.

Z

[t6hawk]

Originally posted by chadbattles:
Oh and listen, you will find that when you cut the EL panel, the exposed edges are liable to shock you, with a 9V battery this is minor, but on 120V this could really suck for both you and your computer, the effect is like a continuous discharge of a capacitor.

I heard that you can seal the edges with clear nail polish. I believe the site where it walks you thru installing a EL panel in a Newton says that.



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I have 6 Macs. How many do you have?

[chadbattles]

The fiber itself is not flat, however ot is like many fiber optics binded together side by side to form a flat ribbon. I dont recall who sells it but I will contact my friend and ask
Chad

[Jsnuff1]

hey you could alway stick little glow-in-the-dark letters on the keys

[zac4mac]

This is definitely taking longer than anticipated. Glad I remembered I had an iMate. Using an old Extended keyboard for now.

Got the sheet cut out and fit to the case, and holes cut for a few of the assembly screws. Won't use all of them on re-assembly. Looks like I'll be able to push keys thru the sheet without having to cut holes for that. Higher pressure, but workable. Hope to be close to done tonite, still have to cut holes for "capslock" and "numlock" LED's and connect power back to the sheet.

[IceEnclosure]

go for it zac!! woo hoo, i want one


post pics when you're done

[cElls]

Originally posted by Wetsponge
:
<STRONG>That's what the nubbins on the "F" and "J" keys are for. so you can type w/o seeing.</STRONG>

That brings up a question... How come on some keyboards the bumps are on the F and J keys, while other keyboards have them on the D and K keys?

[Steve]

Originally posted by cElls:
<STRONG>

That brings up a question... How come on some keyboards the bumps are on the F and J keys, while other keyboards have them on the D and K keys?</STRONG>

"Think Different"

[ajprice]

http://www.digitalhipps.com/english/.../keyborg01.htm

This is a link to keyBORG replacement keys for '99 and '00 Powerbook G3's and original shape iBooks, TiBook and new iBook keyboards are on the way. They're in different colours and are slightly thinner than the standard keys, so they won't mark the screen when the lid is closed. Personally, I think the brown keys on the PB G3 look horrible, graphite would be better. Not sure about the Buck Rogers font on these keyBORG keys though.

[waffffffle]

Those colors do look nice but the fonts are so ugly. If they offered one in Helvetica Italic I'd already own one.

[The Godfather]

Why not use one of those fiber optic lamps and bring two or three fiber ends to each key?



I have found a cheap battery operated fiber lamp here: http://www.coolstuffcheap.com/coolst...powfibopl.html

Have fun!

[BlueFlameOut]

Here are a couple of companies that sell neon stuff. PC related but can be adapted...

Cool Case Mods
Beeing Seen Technologies

[Todd Corzett]

Anyone have any luck with this yet? I was looking to do this to a new TiBook. I saw the EL stuff, only problem is keeping it portable. The idea of the fiberoptics is a nice one... wondering if anyone has any pictures?

-Todd...