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awcopus · Jul 10, 2007, 04:37 PM

Anybody else waiting semi-patiently for Apple to remember its Pro customers and release some up-to-date hardware?

This wait has been reminiscent of the G4/G5 years. Demoralizing. Just seems silly to pay the same price for a Mac Pro today that is identical to what was offered approximately a YEAR ago.

Geesh, Apple. What are you waiting for?

I know the Mac Pro line isn't as big a money-maker as the portables, but wouldn't that be a catalyst for Apple to make its Pro desktop line more dynamic instead of letting it languish? C'mon Apple! If you're going to treat your Pro customers this way, maybe now that you're earning so much money from non Pro Mac customers you should let competitors enter the hardware market again.

:dragonflypro: · Jul 10, 2007, 07:10 PM

While I feel the pain of my 7300GT card being 'not great' and would love to have a better graphics card (which they sell retail…) I am not sure what you want them to upgrade.

Intel has yet to release a new batch of CPUs beyond the recent quad-core versions… there is nothing past 2.66 & 3.0Ghz

What do you want them to upgrade… ?

Biest · Jul 10, 2007, 07:24 PM

The only thing that they could update to is a new chipset with 1600MHz FSB, up to 128GB of FB-DIM memory, a 16MB+ Snoop filter and 10Gb Ethernet. Which is released LATE Q3

mduell · Jul 10, 2007, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Biest

The only thing that they could update to is a new chipset with 1600MHz FSB, up to 128GB of FB-DIM memory, a 16MB+ Snoop filter and 10Gb Ethernet. Which is released LATE Q3

Only? How about the base RAM and HDD? The prices for both of those have fallen quite a bit in the last year.
How about the RAM/HDD/GPU upgrade options? Again, they're still pushing the year old options when 4GB FB-DIMMs, 1TB HDDs, and graphics cards 100% faster are available.

The CPUs/chipsets are current (CPU prices drop at the end of the month, but otherwise they've been unchanged since launch), but the rest of the system could really use a refresh.

Leuey · Jul 11, 2007, 01:55 AM

They need to update the graphics cards. The current cards are an insult - $1,500 for a card that would be spanked by a $500 8800....

Motion 3 is extremely slow and the 3D apps I use are crying for something better than the 7800 I have in there now (and I know the ATI 1900 is better - but it's still crap compared to the gaming card I have in my PC in the next room over..)

-Greg

Richard Richard · Jul 11, 2007, 03:30 AM

You can always upgrade the card later , I bought a mac pro realising that fairly soon a new improved version may very well appear. Thing is , the pro has amazing expansion abilities , it's not like an imac which I had before and is basically redundant , so just slip in an nvidia 8800 when it comes out later in the year , and the x1900 isn't exactly what i'd call a slouch , then again gaming doesn't really take up much of the average mac pro user's time i would imagine..

shinji · Jul 11, 2007, 03:55 AM

Maybe a Blu-Ray drive as an option too? That and a new graphics card would be the main things I'm looking for.

awcopus · Jul 11, 2007, 11:12 AM

Apple could use some of its vast wealth to pay vendors for kickass gpu options for Macs Pros. For decades, Apple's video card offerings have generally lagged and there usually aren't many after-market solutions, if any at all. They have the resources now to eliminate this problem. Will they?

If it's a chicken-and-egg question, it makes sense to me that Windows-using design, 3D, and video editing/compositing pros (and gamers, too) don't buy Macs *before* Apple makes its iMacs' and Mac Pros' GPUs more enticing.

The MacBook Pros ship with 2GB of RAM, or 50% of their capacity filled. Maybe the Mac Pros should ship with 2 GB of RAM, which would be 12.5% filled, or 4GB, 25% filled. I know, crazy ideas.

Motherboard improvements...well, I guess that can be tricky. But how about including Airport and Bluetooth preinstalled? When a product approaches being an entire year old in the computer industry, it's hubris to expect customers to fork over the same amount of cash for it. Apple's preserving its margins at the expense of sales... which is nothing new, but that doesn't make it okay.

macin · Jul 11, 2007, 11:16 AM

I AM SO IRKED.

I want my macbook pro now. The wait is killing me and I am starting to go nuts. GRRHHHH

mduell · Jul 11, 2007, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Leuey

They need to update the graphics cards. The current cards are an insult - $1,500 for a card that would be spanked by a $500 8800....

The $1500 card (Quadro FX4500) is slower in many things than the (already available) X1900XT. Pro graphics cards are about features, not gaming performance.

Originally Posted by macin

I AM SO IRKED.

I want my macbook pro now. The wait is killing me and I am starting to go nuts. GRRHHHH

The MacBook Pro was just updated with the latest and (almost) greatest about a month ago. Nothing on the horizon for it until the quads early next year.

Leuey · Jul 12, 2007, 02:09 AM

It's not about features and it's not about gaming performance - it's about performance period. I own a post production company here in silicon valley - the newer GForce cards will spank a Quadro 4500 using professional content creation Apps (Maya, Motion, Modo, etc.) I have no idea what the Quadro's have to offer Mac Pro users unless there's a particular industrial design package that takes advantage of a Quadro exclusive feature (which is pretty much implemented in the driver - not the hardware). Maya long ago stopped requiring the use of these cards for obvious reasons - and aside from AA wireframes no pertinant features of the 4500 comes to mind other than onboard RAM. Motion (if I'm not mistaken) will also run faster on the 1900XT with no loss of features. The Quadro line on the PC and Linux side has drivers tuned for specific apps - I have no idea what it offers the Mac side. But the issue is a Mac Pro (finally) offers an equal (or better IMO with OS X) price/performance ratio than PCs with the glaring exception being the graphics card. Not only does Apple offer older, slower cards - but their drivers are not nearly as good (or up to date) as the drivers on the PC side.

Anyway - you're right in essence about the Quadro line being about features (software drivers tuned to specific apps on the PC and Linux side) - I see no evidence of this on the Mac side whatsover and it is disturbing that a $500 card with more performace and memory with no discernable feature deficit is not a choice while a 1.5 year old card that costs $1,500 is.

This alone has kept me from replacing all the PCs in the studio with Mac Pros. So yeah - they should address this and let ATI/AMD and NVidia offer driver updates apart from the Apple OS updates IMO.

best,

Greg

Originally Posted by mduell

The $1500 card (Quadro FX4500) is slower in many things than the (already available) X1900XT. Pro graphics cards are about features, not gaming performance.

The MacBook Pro was just updated with the latest and (almost) greatest about a month ago. Nothing on the horizon for it until the quads early next year.

mduell · Jul 12, 2007, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Leuey

It's not about features and it's not about gaming performance - it's about performance period. I own a post production company here in silicon valley - the newer GForce cards will spank a Quadro 4500 using professional content creation Apps (Maya, Motion, Modo, etc.) I have no idea what the Quadro's have to offer Mac Pro users unless there's a particular industrial design package that takes advantage of a Quadro exclusive feature (which is pretty much implemented in the driver - not the hardware). Maya long ago stopped requiring the use of these cards for obvious reasons - and aside from AA wireframes no pertinant features of the 4500 comes to mind other than onboard RAM. Motion (if I'm not mistaken) will also run faster on the 1900XT with no loss of features. The Quadro line on the PC and Linux side has drivers tuned for specific apps - I have no idea what it offers the Mac side. But the issue is a Mac Pro (finally) offers an equal (or better IMO with OS X) price/performance ratio than PCs with the glaring exception being the graphics card. Not only does Apple offer older, slower cards - but their drivers are not nearly as good (or up to date) as the drivers on the PC side.

Anyway - you're right in essence about the Quadro line being about features (software drivers tuned to specific apps on the PC and Linux side) - I see no evidence of this on the Mac side whatsover and it is disturbing that a $500 card with more performace and memory with no discernable feature deficit is not a choice while a 1.5 year old card that costs $1,500 is.

This alone has kept me from replacing all the PCs in the studio with Mac Pros. So yeah - they should address this and let ATI/AMD and NVidia offer driver updates apart from the Apple OS updates IMO.

How about OpenGL logic operations? Or multiple clip regions? Or hardware accelerated clip planes? Or two-sided lighting? Or hardware overlay planes? Or quad-buffered stereo for shutter glasses? The pro video cards support all that and more in addition to the driver improvements (optimizing memory usage for multiple apps, application-specific optimization, and of course certification).

Is OS X really missing out on all those features for pro users? Or have those features come downmarket to work on the gamer cards?
Just because pro apps run on gamer cards doesn't mean that the pro cards don't offer advantages for pro users.

Leuey · Jul 12, 2007, 02:55 PM

Like I said - there's not one feature on a pro app that I can think of (and I use them every day) that is exclusive to the Quadro. None of those things you mention offer any advantage in Maya, Modo, Motion, After FX, Shake, or Lightwave. Overlay planes used to be required for things like paint fx and some brush drawing in Maya - not anymore. Stereo Shutters? Are you kidding me? We're talking about the day to day content creation market. The Quadro **DRIVERS** offer some of those features for windows and linux users - for some industrial design apps. I can't think of one app that takes advantage of one feature on the Quadro on the Mac and I'm willing to bet that the OSX drivers don't even support those things anyway. There is no advantage to the Quadro on OSX for day to day content creation than a working GeForce 8800. The 8800 will in fact be faster, have more RAM, be cheaper, and have it's drivers updated more often.

Now - there may be some engineering apps or scientific apps that require the Quadro or have custom software written for it. So the option of a Quadro is a good thing. But *not* in lieu of having a **current** graphics card as an option as well.

The Quadro on the Mac without the option for a **current** card (that's faster, cheaper and has more RAM) is a disservice to the professional users who rely on the Mac and is the number one reason (outside of a lack of software such as Max, XSI, mudbox, zbrush, houdini, etc.) that people like me are sitting around waiting for apple to get their crap together on the graphics card front before buying or upgrading.

-Greg

MaxPower · Jul 12, 2007, 03:28 PM

And people like me whom are dumping their Mac Pros on craigslist!

Seriously. Its such a joke that we have expandable x86-based Apple hardware that can't take advantage of the latest GPU's. Might as well just throw some NuBus slots in there instead of PCI-e.

suneohair · Jul 13, 2007, 05:31 PM

I am also playing the waiting game. With quad-core chips dumping in price at the end of the month to current dual cpu levels. You would be a fool to purchase now. Not too mention Stoakley-Seaburg mobos, 2GB RAM, 500GB, and a 8x00 GPU standard. I am waiting as long as it takes.

awcopus · Jul 14, 2007, 12:47 AM

Clearly Apple needs to revise its approach to the Mac Pro upgrade cycle. Mac Pro CPUs can only be upgraded when new chips are available from Intel. That time-frame is almost always longer than the period between GPU upgrades. So Apple should just plug the new GPUs into their current line-ups as they come online.

Apple's got the money, they've got the know-how, but they seem to lack the will to offer users current GPU options on a regular basis. nVidia and ATI clearly aren't motivated to offer us much directly because of our comparatively small market share. But Apple has moves it could make. For example, sales of its portable line are brisk. How about awarding the portable default card to the manufacturer who is willing to release some kick-butt after market options to Mac users? Or just outright paying nVidia to make its most advanced GPUs available for installation in Mac Pros as default options as soon as they're available?

This particular wait has been brutal. C'mon Apple!

mduell · 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by awcopus

Clearly Apple needs to revise its approach to the Mac Pro upgrade cycle. Mac Pro CPUs can only be upgraded when new chips are available from Intel. That time-frame is almost always longer than the period between GPU upgrades. So Apple should just plug the new GPUs into their current line-ups as they come online.

Apple's got the money, they've got the know-how, but they seem to lack the will to offer users current GPU options on a regular basis. nVidia and ATI clearly aren't motivated to offer us much directly because of our comparatively small market share. But Apple has moves it could make. For example, sales of its portable line are brisk. How about awarding the portable default card to the manufacturer who is willing to release some kick-butt after market options to Mac users? Or just outright paying nVidia to make its most advanced GPUs available for installation in Mac Pros as default options as soon as they're available?

I don't think there's any problem getting the chips/cards. Neither OEM has had volume issues lately, and there's a dozen ODMs who will happily sell Apple cards. The real holdup is due to the unique EFI firmware and of course OS X drivers, which Apple may have to do themselves since the market is so small.

musicforme · Jul 16, 2007, 11:02 AM

I wonder if we'll hear something regarding the Mac Pros in a short amount of time. Looks Intel just annouced some information about their upcoming processors.

Intel Offering New Processors for Desktops, Laptops

MallyMal · Jul 16, 2007, 12:02 PM

I'm in the same boat. I don't think I can wait too much longer because my 12" PB 867MHz is really kicking my ass. I was hoping for either a price drop or a graphics update. But we are dealing with Apple...

mduell · Jul 16, 2007, 05:24 PM

The new mobile chips are too power hungry for the MBP... they're for the 2" thick Xtreme l33t gamer laptops. No change to the MBP until Penryn in early next year.

The new desktop chips do nothing for any Apple products.

The Mac Pro chips have a big price drop coming in 2 weeks, followed by Wolfdale/Harpertown near the end of the year (3.33Ghz dual and 3.16Ghz quad both with 50% more cache).

bearcatrp · Jul 16, 2007, 05:54 PM

Any chance of these new chips be able to go into a current mac pro? Would like to swap out my 2ghz chips to the quad chips with the most L2 cache.
Randy

mduell · Jul 16, 2007, 07:37 PM

You can swap in the current 65nm quads, no problem. The 45nm quads should work, but they may not if it needs a little firmware tweak (and Apple wouldn't provide one for the older machines).

Big Mac · Jul 16, 2007, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Richard Richard

You can always upgrade the card later , I bought a mac pro realising that fairly soon a new improved version may very well appear. Thing is , the pro has amazing expansion abilities , it's not like an imac which I had before and is basically redundant , so just slip in an nvidia 8800 when it comes out later in the year , and the x1900 isn't exactly what i'd call a slouch , then again gaming doesn't really take up much of the average mac pro user's time i would imagine..

Unfortunately, you shouldn't hold your breath. The Mac Pro isn't the first tower Apple has produced - just look back at GPU options Apple used to provide. The fact is, just because newer cards come out doesn't mean Apple will provide an upgrade path to them. With Apple towers you're usually limited to the upgrade options that are available at the time your computer is current. And even if a newer card is compatible with your system, good luck trying to buy it at a decent price. The best hope for Mactel owners is that enterprising people will figure out which PC cards work in OS X properly.

macgeek2005 · Jul 17, 2007, 01:10 PM

I've been loving this "wait". I've had the "Best" apple Pro machine for well over half a year! I don't like it when they upgrade because then I don't have the best anymore.

rubaiyat · Jul 25, 2007, 02:28 AM

The real concern I'd say for all Mac users at the moment is how Apple plateaued its prices and features a year ago.

When the dam breaks and Apple is forced to accomodate to market reality, everyone who bought before the new models is going to take a big hit in the value of their computers.

Better that Apple followed a smoother consistent line with both its prices and features, then the shock would be less.

mduell · Jul 25, 2007, 07:45 PM

On the CPU side, they're just following Intel, like all the other OEMs.

But the lack of GPU/RAM/HDD upgrades really is dragging. But 'everyone' is buying the latter two third party, at reasonable prices, so the hit to value they take isn't going to be that bad.

SierraDragon · Jul 27, 2007, 11:43 PM

What Mark said:

Originally Posted by mduell

...the lack of GPU/RAM/HDD upgrades really is dragging.

-Allen Wicks

awcopus · Jul 29, 2007, 06:02 PM

Would be nice to see Apple use the upcoming price breaks to at least offer more for less across the line-up. Holding my breath? No.

I got the Mac Pro waiting blues....

awcopus · Aug 1, 2007, 10:56 AM

August 7th event is supposedly "Mac-focused." Though the rumors say "iMac and iLife", I'm looking for a low-key update to the Mac Pros.

So say we all!

I've got the Mac Pro Waiting Bluuuueeessssszzzzz.... chacha chaaaa ......

suneohair · Aug 2, 2007, 07:31 PM

I have been tracking price of quad-core Clovertowns, the price drop is definitely in effect. They were over $1000 on Monday, and today down to $819. They cost $744 in 1000 unit bundles, which is the level the dual-core Woodcrests were at, and still are near. With this in my mind, I can't buy a Mac Pro til they are updated or the price is trimmed.

I think Aug. 7th will bring us some goodies.

macgeek2005 · Aug 3, 2007, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by suneohair

I have been tracking price of quad-core Clovertowns, the price drop is definitely in effect. They were over $1000 on Monday, and today down to $819. They cost $744 in 1000 unit bundles, which is the level the dual-core Woodcrests were at, and still are near. With this in my mind, I can't buy a Mac Pro til they are updated or the price is trimmed.

I think Aug. 7th will bring us some goodies.

August 7th is the 1 year anniversary of the Mac Pro. A good time to upgrade. I'm gonna wait until MWSF 2009, to get a new Mac Pro.

Biest · Aug 3, 2007, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by awcopus

August 7th event is supposedly "Mac-focused." Though the rumors say "iMac and iLife", I'm looking for a low-key update to the Mac Pros.

So say we all!

I've got the Mac Pro Waiting Bluuuueeessssszzzzz.... chacha chaaaa ......

Woke up this morning.... waiting for my mac pro...

timmerk · Aug 4, 2007, 05:48 PM

I'm waiting for a new Mac Pro case. I think the current ones are too big and ugly on the outside with all the holes.

Biest · Aug 4, 2007, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by timmerk

I'm waiting for a new Mac Pro case. I think the current ones are too big and ugly on the outside with all the holes.

I doubt the cases will get any smaller, maybe redesigned, but not considerably smaller (deduct the handles and maybe an inch). The size of the x1900 and Quadro and the 4 HDD bays hinder that

goMac · Aug 4, 2007, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by MaxPower

And people like me whom are dumping their Mac Pros on craigslist!

Seriously. Its such a joke that we have expandable x86-based Apple hardware that can't take advantage of the latest GPU's. Might as well just throw some NuBus slots in there instead of PCI-e.

One issue is that graphics card are compatible with BIOS, but not EFI. Obviously the Apple ones are EFI firmware compatible, but ones you find in stores typically aren't...

Captain Curt · Aug 5, 2007, 02:13 AM

I don't care what the new Mac Pro case would look like. I could go for easy access to the CPUs, hot swapping of the hard disks and most of all, a touch typist keyboard that would hide dirt and also be easily disassembled for cleaning.

awcopus · Aug 7, 2007, 02:47 PM

The "event" is over. New iMacs (with new keyboard), new Mac Mini. New iLife and new iWork. Also, new dotMac. Add all of this to recently updated MacBooks and Macbook Pros.

Officially, the Mac Pro is now "THE" neglected Apple product.

I waited for good news,
but I still got'em,
Those damn Mac Pro waiting blues.
D'oh!

AdamDZ · Aug 7, 2007, 03:06 PM

I ordered a MacPro last Wed and canceled the order next morning when I heard about this event. I'm so disappointed too. A little refresh and/or price drop of the MacPro would be nice: faster DVD burner, faster video card option and maybe faster memory. Plus, their monitors are in bad need of upgrade, almost any maker sells better monitors now for less. Also, I was still hoping for a midline product to be released. Come on, not everybody wants all-in-one and not everybody can afford a MacPro. Intel just released 3GHz Core2Duo and 2.4Quad is now under $300 at NewEgg. A $1500 Quad consumer minitower with regular DDR2 RAM is not unreasonable thing to ask. Apple is so damn stubborn and pisses me of so much sometimes it makes me wanna buy a freaking Dell just as matter of principle.

A.

Sparkletron · Aug 7, 2007, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by awcopus

The "event" is over. New iMacs (with new keyboard), new Mac Mini

Not exactly a new Mini but a refreshed one. But I hear you, Pooki, baby...

went down to the Apple store
searched rumor sites for clues
silence deafened me to the core
with those MacPro waiting blues

-S

awcopus · Aug 7, 2007, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by AdamDZ

Apple is so damn stubborn and pisses me of so much sometimes it makes me wanna buy a freaking Dell just as matter of principle.

A.

I get that mad/frustrated sometimes. If OS X ran on other Intel hardware, it would be tempting to forsake Apple's lovely industrial designs for technically superior options. Even then I'd have a hard time, but this current wait probably would have driven me away from Apple's hardware.

Bottom line: I can't bring myself to use MS's OS. I love OSX. Love Final Cut Studio.

So, I'm going to have the Mac Pro waiting blues for a little while longer.

There's an Expo in September, right?

AdamDZ · Aug 7, 2007, 05:56 PM

You nailed it: if I could build my own Intel box and put OSX on it (easily, without hacks) I would be very happy. Apple is becoming an appliance and electronics company. When they dropped "Computer" from their name I really started to worry. They pay too much attention to the i**** things and started to neglect pro and power users IMHO.

A.

Biest · Aug 7, 2007, 06:32 PM

Well at least we get hardware RAID now

The Apple Store (U.S.) - Mac Pro

Updates are "trickling" in

mduell · Aug 7, 2007, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by AdamDZ

A $1500 Quad consumer minitower with regular DDR2 RAM is not unreasonable thing to ask.

$1500 is way too high. 2.4Ghz quad/2GB/80GB (wtf?)/128MB nVidia graphics/etc is $650 at Dell, so I'd expect Apple's price to be under a grand.

MallyMal · Aug 7, 2007, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Biest

Well at least we get hardware RAID now

The Apple Store (U.S.) - Mac Pro

Updates are "trickling" in

Damn, but it's a G.

Veltliner · Aug 8, 2007, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by AdamDZ

Apple is becoming an appliance and electronics company.
A.

Even worse: Apple seems to eye the new image of a "lifestyle electronics" company.

In their cocaine style stock price high they seem to forget who actually really supports that brand on a long term basis: not the iPod teenie buyers, but the upscale users, who love the blend of excellent and reliable software (well matched with the hardware), great design, and great screen appearance. Those, who also loved apple, when it was in deep s***, financially.

In branding they have the weird expression of the "story of a brand", which contains all the emotional associations people have with a brand. iTeeniegimmick will not do the same for apple than their serious computers.

Drunk with iPod sales numbers, they might wake up with a hangover when flash prices get really low, and you can buy an iPod style player with 30gb for 50-100$.

So they'd better get serious with turning out seriously updated MacPros regularly.

Wild-Bill · Aug 8, 2007, 02:23 AM

Hi everyone! . Long-time lurker, first post. Came over from MacRumors, where there are a healthy lot of us who have been clamoring for updated Mac Pro specs for months now. Today was an utter disappointment. A thousand dollar RAID card and no updates to the year and a half old video cards?? What are they thinking over there?? I am tired of waiting, but at the same time I'm not about to blow over $2500 on a machine with outdated video cards, especially when there are better solutions out there today. Both ATI and nVidia are three generations ahead with their cards and yet Apple keeps the x1900xt in there, which was released in January 2006.

If you're as upset as I am, do what I did. Fill out an online product feedback form on the Mac Pro. Tell them you're waiting, like many many others, for them to give us some 2007 video cards!

Link

pinkpanther · Aug 8, 2007, 04:51 AM

Thanks for the link Wild-Bill.... I hope someone at apple reads it.

Today was such a let down.... I guess there is September. But I'm still very

pissed. My G5 is dead, and I've been doing all my work on an old ibook....

I definitely have the Mac Pro waiting blues....

MallyMal · Aug 8, 2007, 05:09 AM

Well, I guess the release of that RAID card means Apple won't be adding an integrated RAID controller any time soon. Now, I need either a price drop or a graphics upgrade. Honestly, I can only wait one more week so it's crunch time.

Wild-Bill · Aug 8, 2007, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by MallyMal

Well, I guess the release of that RAID card means Apple won't be adding an integrated RAID controller any time soon. Now, I need either a price drop or a graphics upgrade. Honestly, I can only wait one more week so it's crunch time.

Use the link MallyMal! Tell Apple their video cards are severely lacking and that paying 2006 prices for 2006 hardware is a fool's game.

With Intel's recent price drops and the general decrease in price of FB-DIMMs since the Mac Pro's inception, Apple has SO much room to work with. They can go 8-core across the board, offer 2 gigs FB-DIMM in the base configuration, AND give us new video cards and they would still make a very healthy profit.

Most of all, those video cards have got to GO. the x1900xt came out in January of 2006. ATI doesn't even make them anymore. Foxconn makes them for Apple, but of course won't produce any until they get a large enough order from Apple (hence long lead times). I'd like to see an nVidia 8800GTX or GTS in there. At worst, the ATI HD 2900xt.

Simon · Aug 8, 2007, 08:20 AM

$1500 is way too high. 2.4Ghz quad/2GB/80GB (wtf?)/128MB nVidia graphics/etc is $650 at Dell, so I'd expect Apple's price to be under a grand.

That's outright comical when you consider the 2.0 GHz dual-core mini costs $699 already. If Apple would ever sell a quad-core HEM the price tag would be somewhere around the cost of (subtracting the cost of the screen and adding an "upsell penalty") a comparable iMac.

That would put your 2.4 GHz quad right about at $1499. What was that? Can't compete with the Dell tower? Bingo. Guess why Apple's not selling it?

It's become very clear once again from watching Steve's address that they just don't want to make a HEM. They think it's ugly and they think using it isn't nice. They believe it's either a professional tower or a portable for most folks and everybody else basically wants a AIO. Apart from the gamers and geeks he might even be right about that. Be that as it may, it's very clear that a HEM isn't coming up anytime soon. Even more so if you'd actually believe it would happen below $1k.