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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Is [Person/Place/Thing] Racist? The Thread

Is [Person/Place/Thing] Racist? The Thread (Page 2)
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 6, 2018, 06:50 PM
 
This needs an entry in the thread for debate: https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/3/1...-danish-ghetto
In Denmark, children over the age of 1 who live in low-income, heavily Muslim immigrant communities that the government classifies as “ghettos” will soon be subject to mandatory training in “Danish values.”

Once children turn 1, they will be required to attend daycare centers for at least 25 hours a week, where they will be taught about the Danish culture and language, including Christian holidays such as Christmas and Easter. If parents refuse to send their children, they could lose their welfare benefits.
“The ghettos must disappear. We will take control of who moves. In particularly burdened areas, we will punish criminality extra hard,” Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said while meeting with other ministers in March.

“We should be able to recognize our country,” Prime Minister Rasmussen said in March. “There are places where I don’t recognize what I’m seeing.”
     
Chongo
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Jul 10, 2018, 03:15 PM
 
What about “Airplane!”?

     
Laminar
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Jul 10, 2018, 03:29 PM
 
Chongo, it'd be nice if you actually laid out a conclusion for once, instead of pretending to ask a question, quoting some phrases that your news source of choice taught you, then running away when presented with the opportunity to clarify your actual position.
     
Chongo
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Jul 10, 2018, 05:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Chongo, it'd be nice if you actually laid out a conclusion for once, instead of pretending to ask a question, quoting some phrases that your news source of choice taught you, then running away when presented with the opportunity to clarify your actual position.
The thread is called "Is [person/place/thing] racist?" Should I have posted that as Is [Airplane!] racist? I gave as an example two scenes from "Airplane!" and want to know if that makes the movie racist. The movie was released 38 years ago. What was comedy in 1980 has been deemed racist by current standards, yes or no?
( Last edited by Chongo; Jul 10, 2018 at 09:34 PM. )
     
Laminar
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Jul 11, 2018, 09:24 AM
 
What do you think?
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 11, 2018, 10:35 AM
 
Counterargument: Tropic Thunder.

     
OAW
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Jul 11, 2018, 08:47 PM
 
^^^^

As a general rule a white actor doing "black face" is an automatic "Go straight to jail! Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200." But I must admit Robert Downey Jr. was hilarious in that movie!

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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 15, 2018, 11:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If we go back to when Trump announced his candidacy, my argument then wasn’t Trump isn’t a racist, but that he’s racist well within the parameters of conservative, old, rich, white people.
Impact of immigration on Europe?

Donald Trump: I think it’s been bad for Europe. I know Europe very well and it’s been tough. We’ve seen some terror attacks. I just think it’s changing the culture and is very negative for Europe and Germany … It’s not politically-correct to say that, but I’ll say it and say it loud. Look at what’s happening to different countries that never had problems — it’s a very sad situation. It’s not good for Europe and it’s not good for our country. We have very bad immigration laws.
subego, would it be fair to say this answer goes beyond 'old rich white conservative' and into white nationalist territory?
     
subego
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Jul 17, 2018, 05:16 AM
 
Sorry, I missed this.

That’s a janky transcript, which also happens to clip the most white supremacist sounding part of the quote:

“We’re, as you know, far superior to anything that’s happened before...”

He’s being anti-Muslim, though. We can slap a negative label on it, but I’m not sure white supremacist is the correct one. Likewise, anti-Muslim is well within the parameters of conservative, rich, old white people.


Edit: You wrote nationalist. My bad.
( Last edited by subego; Jul 17, 2018 at 08:26 AM. )
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 17, 2018, 07:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
He’s being anti-Muslim, though. We can slap a negative label on it, but I’m not sure white supremacist is the correct one.
This strikes me as an interesting catch-22. Being anti-muslim specifically is how nationalists and supremacists couch their arguments to make themselves sound more reasonable. Is it possible to make a determination that someone is a white nationalist or supremacists based on their views or muslims?


Originally Posted by subego View Post
Likewise, anti-Muslim is well within the parameters of conservative, rich, old white people.
Here's how I read things in the US: anti-muslim bias is more a product of fear of terrorism, aka 9/11 and ISIS. Fear of muslim culture is an outlier, mostly limited to religious idealogues. Thoughts?

I'd also add that he comes around to immigration laws being the problem. I don't think being anti-immigration is within the parameters of conservative, rich, old white people. This is the domain of the rising alt-right.
     
OAW
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Jul 17, 2018, 10:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This strikes me as an interesting catch-22. Being anti-muslim specifically is how nationalists and supremacists couch their arguments to make themselves sound more reasonable. Is it possible to make a determination that someone is a white nationalist or supremacists based on their views or muslims?
Straight out of CTP’s playbook.

OAW
     
subego
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Jul 18, 2018, 07:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This strikes me as an interesting catch-22. Being anti-muslim specifically is how nationalists and supremacists couch their arguments to make themselves sound more reasonable. Is it possible to make a determination that someone is a white nationalist or supremacists based on their views or muslims?


Here's how I read things in the US: anti-muslim bias is more a product of fear of terrorism, aka 9/11 and ISIS. Fear of muslim culture is an outlier, mostly limited to religious idealogues. Thoughts?

I'd also add that he comes around to immigration laws being the problem. I don't think being anti-immigration is within the parameters of conservative, rich, old white people. This is the domain of the rising alt-right.
There are two ways to interpret Trump’s criticism of immigration law in his response.

A) He was talking about illegal immigrants.

B) He wasn’t, but was sure to make it look that way when he offered “you put one foot on the land and now you’re tied up in a lawsuit for five years” as an example of what he takes issue with.

My best argument for A is B’s resemblance to him giving a shit what people think.


Whatever anti-Muslim bias I have derives from the barbaric tenets of the religion one finds on display in mainstream Middle Eastern culture. The (at times literally) blistering misogyny bothers me in particular because it’s affecting the most people, but I see why martyrdom gets a disproportionate share of the attention.

Unless they desire to be aggressively reform, I want neither Muslim immigrants or refugees. Frankly, I don’t even want visitors. **** them. Their principles are antithetical to my own and those of this country.

It’s not up to me whether that opinion qualifies as white supremacism or nationalism. However my honest assessment is I can’t even squint and make it a racial argument. I’m asserting cultural supremacy to a degree which could be said to have overlap with white nationalism, but the racial element is explicitly vacant.

So, that’s my answer to both questions. The bias is sourced in cultural supremacism, thus despite the similarity in opinion, a direct link between an anti-Muslim position and ethno-supremacism or nationalism cannot be safely assumed.

Where I start to diverge from CTP and others lies in the amount of cognitive dissonance this opinion causes. It’s a shitload with me, so the result is I generally find keeping it to myself to be the moral action. My policy doesn’t consciously reflect this opinion at all.

With CTP and others, there’s less dissonance, so their policy and attitude reflect it. The “funny” thing is they accurately assess the situation as more dire because they lack support from those such as myself.

Race becomes involved because most Muslims aren’t white. That activates some people’s almonds. CTP isn’t one of them.

With Trump, what stands out to me is how well he stays within conservative, rich, old white people parameters when it comes to black people. If he didn’t really exist inside those parameters with regards to them, by now he would have unforced errored his way out outside of the parameters more times than we could count. Not just as President, but in his 30 years as a public figure. The man doesn’t have a filter. This is the part that’s not fitting into the profile for me, which is what’s casting the doubt on the others.
( Last edited by subego; Jul 18, 2018 at 08:04 AM. )
     
 
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