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All your kids are belong to us
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The Final Dakar
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Jun 17, 2018, 07:14 PM
 
This shit needs its own thread. I don't have much to add other than venting but the entire process of enacting, justifying, and carrying out the family separation procedure has been a ****ing farce.

Anyway, so happy to be living through the most heinous organized governmental act since Japanese Internment.
     
reader50
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Jun 17, 2018, 08:38 PM
 
For those not up on what's happening:
Inside an old warehouse in south Texas, hundreds of children wait away from their parents in a series of cages created by metal fencing.

One cage had 20 children inside. Scattered about are bottles of water, bags of chips and large foil sheets intended to serve as blankets.

...

Nearly 2,000 children have been taken from their parents since the attorney general Jeff Sessions announced the policy, which directs homeland security officials to refer all cases of illegal entry into the US for prosecution.
Guardian report
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 17, 2018, 08:59 PM
 
Some of the kids are so distraught they're suicidal.
     
The Final Shortcut
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Jun 17, 2018, 09:39 PM
 
Just your normal reminder that the US and Somalia are the only two countries that have not ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Which, you know...might normally not be an issue.
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 17, 2018, 09:57 PM
 
If the republicans were really serious about stopping undocumented immigration, they’d start jailing the business owners hiring them, instead of jailing innocent children. But, y’know, business can do no wrong, so...
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 17, 2018, 10:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Shortcut View Post
Just your normal reminder that the US and Somalia are the only two countries that have not ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Which, you know...might normally not be an issue.
But ratifying a UN convention would be (((Globalism)))
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 17, 2018, 10:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
If the republicans were really serious about stopping undocumented immigration, they’d start jailing the business owners hiring them, instead of jailing innocent children. But, y’know, business can do no wrong, so...
e-verify. It's splitting the GOP caucus and I'd really like to hear them explain why. I was for it back during the Bush years.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 17, 2018, 10:15 PM
 
...and now Laura Bush is taking a stand.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.5b97c8286a3f
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 17, 2018, 10:16 PM
 
You heard about the cartoonist who got canned for bringing attention to this I assume?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 17, 2018, 10:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Some of the kids are so distraught they're suicidal.
Damned millennial snowflakes.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 17, 2018, 10:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
You heard about the cartoonist who got canned for bringing attention to this I assume?
Let's assume I have been camping all weekend and have not.
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 18, 2018, 08:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Let's assume I have been camping all weekend and have not.
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette fired its editorial cartoonist, after the new editorial director killed several of his recent cartoons critical of Trump and the right in-general.
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 18, 2018, 11:10 AM
 
interesting that the owner has been a trump supporter for a while, and always conservative, but gave Rogers raises and competitive offers to keep him on staff. Wonder if the ed director is on instructions to be stifling or is trying to cowtow.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 18, 2018, 11:44 AM
 
Can we not shit up this thread with a tangent about a cartoonist?
     
Laminar
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Jun 18, 2018, 12:00 PM
 
Haha

“It doesn’t take much to connect the dots between the absence of Rob’s left-leaning cartoons and the recent arrival of a Trump-supporting editorial page editor,” the American Association of Editorial Cartoonists said in a statement. “The editorial pages are a public forum, not a members-only private resort in Florida.”
edit: Oops sorry.
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 18, 2018, 12:09 PM
 
Laura Bush's article was very good. More republicans need to be like her and say it out loud.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 18, 2018, 12:29 PM
 
I'll be impressed when republicans start calling on their members to join Feinstein bill. Looking at Flake and Sasse particularly since they're on the record.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 18, 2018, 02:55 PM
 
Curious what her GOP will have the balls to try and extract large concessions of legal immigration to address the kids. Considering the last two decades have been a race to the bottom I say yes.

The other prediction I've seen made is the GOP will signal they want to keep families together then try to get Dems to sign off on infinite detention for kids as that mechanism.

Considering how poorly this is polling it's a fun litmus test of how much of a stranglehold Trump has on the party. ****ing Susan Collins managed to message that she's against taking the kids away but that she doesn't like the solutions being offered.
     
OAW
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Jun 18, 2018, 05:18 PM
 
I'm just going to leave this right here ....

Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday that Congress could end the practice of separating children from their parents at the border if lawmakers give President Donald Trump his wall and new immigration legislation.

“We do not want to separate parents from their children,” Sessions said Monday in defending his “zero tolerance” immigration policy. “If we build the wall, if we pass legislation to end the lawlessness, we won’t face these terrible choices.”

Speaking to the National Sheriffs’ Association conference in New Orleans, Sessions said the practice of separating children from their parents is a result of Trump’s actions to “end the lawlessness at our southern border.”
Sessions: Building a wall will end family separations at border | NYPost.com

OAW
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 18, 2018, 06:07 PM
 
Yes, some in the admin see them as a bargaining chip. It's chilling just what these people are willing to do that even the W admin deemed too far.

I'm also kind of flabbergasted that this is happening as the midterms loom. The GOP are completely cowed.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 18, 2018, 06:16 PM
 
It appears ~27% of americans are psychopaths.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...aration-policy
Republican voters support the policy 55 to 35 percent, according to the poll released on Monday.
Does this count as asymmetrical polarization?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 18, 2018, 06:27 PM
 
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1008828814758162432
Asked why Trump won't just sign standalone legislation ending family separation if he hates it so much, Sanders says, "We want to fix the entire system. We don't want to just tinker with it."
Holding the kids hostage.
     
OldManMac
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Jun 18, 2018, 07:57 PM
 
What's so surprising about this? The U S has a centuries old history of ripping children from families! Has everyone forgotten when slave families were torn apart, by taking the males from Africa in chains? Or, when they arrived here and were allowed to form families (for more slaves), and then having those families being put on auction blocks, to be split? Or, as late as the late 1800s, when Native children were literally taken by the White Man, to be put into "Christian" schools, to take the "savage" out of them? Or, turning a blind eye when it was known what Hitler was doing with families?

Now we act indignant?
( Last edited by OldManMac; Jun 18, 2018 at 08:11 PM. )
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 18, 2018, 08:09 PM
 
Someone was streaming the press conference earlier on FB. watched for several minutes as the reaction emoji floated past at the bottom of the video. 100% angry. I've never seen that before.
On another note, the BBC reported that Melania has been speaking out on this issue. They didn't mention any surprise about her being alive and well.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
OAW
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Jun 18, 2018, 11:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
What's so surprising about this? The U S has a centuries old history of ripping children from families! Has everyone forgotten when slave families were torn apart, by taking the males from Africa in chains? Or, when they arrived here and were allowed to form families (for more slaves), and then having those families being put on auction blocks, to be split? Or, as late as the late 1800s, when Native children were literally taken by the White Man, to be put into "Christian" schools, to take the "savage" out of them? Or, turning a blind eye when it was known what Hitler was doing with families?

Now we act indignant?
QFT.

OAW
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 19, 2018, 11:46 AM
 
Well, there's the belief that we should have learned from those mistakes by now, especially since WWII/japanese internment.
     
Chongo
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Jun 19, 2018, 12:29 PM
 
Since the “Russian collusion” narrative has started to collapse, it looks like the LWMSM is pushing a new one. Did Cuellar and Feinstein not get the memo?



I guess she has evolved on the issue.
1993

1994
     
Chongo
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Jun 19, 2018, 12:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Well, there's the belief that we should have learned from those mistakes by now, especially since WWII/japanese internment.
Germans and Italians were also placed in interment camps, just not to the same extent as Japanese were.
     
Chongo
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Jun 19, 2018, 12:56 PM
 
This to will collapse as more people search the archives and find these images, then the narritive will return to Stormy.
From May of 2014:


Another Obama era march not covered by the news.


( Last edited by Chongo; Jun 19, 2018 at 01:07 PM. )
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 19, 2018, 01:14 PM
 
There was widespread coverage of, and outrage over, Obama's deportation regime. It was regularly reported in the MSM that he had the highest deportation numbers of any previous President. And, quite obviously, there was a lot of protesting.

Whataboutism fail.
     
TheWOAT
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Jun 19, 2018, 01:25 PM
 
Ripping families apart is grotesque, especially under the excuse of "they didn't enter the US at a port of entry". I also don't think part of this is new. The border has seen upticks in unaccompanied minors in the past, and we have houses them in dog kennels basically for years. We need more funding for these kids.
.......
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 19, 2018, 02:19 PM
 
Chongo do you have an opinion on the subject rather than deflecting to Obama?
     
Chongo
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Jun 19, 2018, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
There was widespread coverage of, and outrage over, Obama's deportation regime. It was regularly reported in the MSM that he had the highest deportation numbers of any previous President. And, quite obviously, there was a lot of protesting.

Whataboutism fail.
This is not a “whataboutism.” This a WTFWY when ‘tis was going on before? Sure Cuellar and a few Democrats were trying to bring attention to the Obama detention policy, but as he said, Obama took measures to hide it. If there was “widespread coverage” then the SJW’s must have really bad memories. They act like this has never occurred before.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Chongo do you have an opinion on the subject rather than deflecting to Obama?
This a deflection itself from the collapsing collusion narritive, especially in light of the Inspector General’s report on the shenanigans involving the Clinton email fiasco.

Don’t break the law, enter the US legally.
     
Laminar
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Jun 19, 2018, 04:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Since the “Russian collusion” narrative has started to collapse,
Has it?

They act like this has never occurred before.
Show me some numbers.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 19, 2018, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
This a deflection itself from the collapsing collusion narritive, especially in light of the Inspector General’s report on the shenanigans involving the Clinton email fiasco.
You still don't know what deflection is.

Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Don’t break the law, enter the US legally.
Like, I dunno, requesting asylum?
     
Chongo
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Jun 19, 2018, 09:08 PM
 
Mhhmm
     
turtle777
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Jun 19, 2018, 09:13 PM
 
So, seriously, what are the alternatives ?

Incarcerate the children with the adults ?
Send them back to Mexico on their own ?
Send them to Disney World until things get figured out ?

I’m open for realistic options.

-t
     
Brien
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Jun 19, 2018, 11:46 PM
 
Buh-bye U.N. Human Rights council.
     
reader50
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Jun 20, 2018, 12:35 AM
 
The alternative is to deport both kids and parents promptly.

This is happening (caging children) because Jeff Sessions decided to prosecute 100% of illegals captured. ie - run them through an overbusy court system. House the parents in overcrowded American jails for a few months or years. At a per-day cost to the taxpayers higher than the daily rate at the Four Seasons. Then deport them.

The kids are a problem because they are innocent of whatever their parents did (try for a better life - a serious crime). If illegals with kids were deported immediately, more illegals might bring kids along. But that would make them easier to catch, as kids travel slower.
     
OreoCookie
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Jun 20, 2018, 04:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
So, seriously, what are the alternatives ?

Incarcerate the children with the adults ?
Send them back to Mexico on their own ?
Send them to Disney World until things get figured out ?
This is a problem of the Trump Administration's own making: Session decided to jail all illegal immigrants* for what is legally a misdemeanor — at great expense for American tax payers. (Sending them to Disney World might actually be cheaper.) I put a star on illegal immigrants, because a lot of people are actually asylum seekers.

And even if you decide that the best way to handle undocumented immigrants is by jailing them, then yes, you should keep families together. This is just basic humanity. Even if you decide to look at it from a financial perspective, this is the cheaper solution.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 20, 2018, 04:35 AM
 
Splitting families is against the UN Human Rights Convention, Oh wait, that explains that.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 20, 2018, 09:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
The alternative is to deport both kids and parents promptly.
Even asylum claims?
     
Chongo
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Jun 20, 2018, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
So, seriously, what are the alternatives ?

Incarcerate the children with the adults ?
Send them back to Mexico on their own ?
Send them to Disney World until things get figured out ?

I’m open for realistic options.


-t
They were detained together until Flores v Reno
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
The alternative is to deport both kids and parents promptly.

This is happening (caging children) because Jeff Sessions decided to prosecute 100% of illegals captured. ie - run them through an overbusy court system. House the parents in overcrowded American jails for a few months or years. At a per-day cost to the taxpayers higher than the daily rate at the Four Seasons. Then deport them.

The kids are a problem because they are innocent of whatever their parents did (try for a better life - a serious crime). If illegals with kids were deported immediately, more illegals might bring kids along. But that would make them easier to catch, as kids travel slower.
The people who come from Mexico get sent back immediately. Most of the migrants sent to the centers are from Central America.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Even asylum claims?
Claiming asylum. That is crux of the issue. DHS/ICE has to determain if the are truly seeking asylum, or just repeating a script hand to them. They also have to determain if the are from Mexico or Central America. This all due to the law to combat trafficking of minors from Central America.

This is not helpful either.
     
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Jun 20, 2018, 02:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Even asylum claims?
Illegals caught? - No (proceed to get low-paying jobs)
Yes (hold families together until next step)
Is asylum seeker? - Yes (proceed to regular asylum process)
No
Has kids with them? - Yes (deport immediately)
No
Do we prosecute all remaining for funsies? - Yes (raise taxes - more jails needed)
No - deport immediately

Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
This is not helpful either.
You left out the part where the current proposed law includes $25B of wasted spending for a Wall. Good thing we just cut taxes.

Trump simply changing the policy (which he has decided to do) saves the taxpayers $25 Billion right off the top. So keeping the focus on Trump was the financially prudent thing to do. Which is what Senate leaders should be doing - making prudent decisions. Remind me - what was the problem with Schumer's quote again?
     
Chongo
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Jun 20, 2018, 04:45 PM
 
Time to go back to talking about Stormy.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 20, 2018, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Time to go back to talking about Stormy.
Soulless and petty. You agree with the Pope that this was immoral?

Anyway, the XO purposely flaunts the Flores ruling so he's going from inhumane separation to indefinite detention. I suspect the furor will abate but not disappear.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 20, 2018, 07:17 PM
 
Let us not gloss over the fact that Trump spent the past few weeks saying he couldn't do anything about the situation Sessions created and then proceeded do something about it once the polls came out and pressure grew.

Edit: And
Despite President Trump's retreat on family separation, 2,300 children already taken from their parents will not be immediately reunited
...though that's probably because they wouldn't know how to find them.
     
OldManMac
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Jun 20, 2018, 09:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Since the “Russian collusion” narrative has started to collapse, ............
Really?

https://medium.com/@KeithDB/a-runnin...s-f518b9a72827
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
OldManMac
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Jun 20, 2018, 09:17 PM
 
When we see innocent children sleeping on a floor in a cage, after being ripped from their parents, and your response is “Did they come here legally?,” then we don’t have a difference in political opinions. We have a difference in morality, and you have none!
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Chongo
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Jun 21, 2018, 07:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
When we see innocent children sleeping on a floor in a cage, after being ripped from their parents, and your response is “Did they come here legally?,” then we don’t have a difference in political opinions. We have a difference in morality, and you have none!
Like these?
http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/ph...ion-facilities





The USCCB had a program, until the Obama HHS ended it because the would not hand out contraceptives.

HHS Ends Contract With Church Program for Trafficking Victims, Stressing Need for Contraception
     
 
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