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All your kids are belong to us (Page 2)
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Laminar
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Jun 21, 2018, 11:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
until the Obama HHS ended it because the would not hand out contraceptives.
Ah, they were trying to ensured a continued stream of trafficking victims.
     
Laminar
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Jun 21, 2018, 11:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Any of those have to do with collusion?
Most...of...them?
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 21, 2018, 07:04 PM
 
So, the first lady visited a facility holding children today.
She wore this jacket...


The complete tone-deafness of these people is astounding.
     
OAW
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Jun 21, 2018, 07:08 PM
 
^^^^



OAW
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 21, 2018, 07:16 PM
 
It really is “Let them eat cake” level cluelessness, isn’t it?
     
besson3c
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Jun 21, 2018, 07:18 PM
 
It's hard to understand America when in this thread the person that is defending children being separated from their parents is a stanch Catholic.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 21, 2018, 10:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
So, the first lady visited a facility holding children today.
She wore this jacket...


The complete tone-deafness of these people is astounding.
That's not tone-deafness, that's on purpose.

Take it with this: When the DHS head was heckled so badly she had to leave, the she defended the separations in the press briefing, she was at a Mexican restaurant. This morning it comes out that Stephen Miller was yelled at while he dined last night... at a Mexican restaurant.

Unless you'd like to argue that separating Mexicans give you a subconscious hankerin' for rice and beans, and that Melania doesn't understand English, this is a stark message that, despite them pulling back, they don't really give a shit about these people.
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 22, 2018, 01:47 PM
 
So these kids are being injected with tranquilizers. That's not evil at all.
Also Trump now wants to delay any legislation until November elections, so it will be six more months before any of this is close to being fixed.

Hostages, all.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 22, 2018, 02:30 PM
 
Given the severity of the claims I'm waiting for evidence before being credulous that these guys are drugging the kids in their care.
     
OldManMac
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Jun 22, 2018, 09:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
So, the first lady visited a facility holding children today.
She wore this jacket...


The complete tone-deafness of these people is astounding.
To be fair, as hard as it is to be toward a fascist and his family, she did not wear that to see the children. She wore it onto the airplane, and then changed. Having said that, she knows where the butter on her bread comes from, and she's still tone deaf.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0321a01cf2d38
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Hg2491
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Jun 23, 2018, 02:06 AM
 
Lets take a second to put things into perspective: There is massive immigration from Central, South America, and the Caribbean into the US. But why is it that people are willing to risk their lives to come to "America" and be treated like shit for not speaking the language or looking a certain way?

The US has treated the rest of America as colonial pawns to ensure the survival of its political and economical agenda. Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Cuba are just examples of countries that have suffered - and currently suffer - from imposed US policies that did nothing but to harm them.

So no, 'America' - you cannot bake the cake and eat it. You cannot complain of having massive immigration from people who are looking for better lives because you have shattered the hopes of their countries of origin. 'America' was born under the pretext of finding a new land to be free and happy of oppression. So much for being the land of the free.

A wall will not fix the immigration issue. Separating families will not fix the immigration issue. Taking people to court will not fix the immigration issue. Having policies that encourage the growth of Latin-American economies will, on the other hand, fix the immigration issue. Taking away people's necessity to fleeing their countries WILL fix the immigration issue.

I am personally so disappointment right now. Sorry for the rant.
     
Hg2491
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Jun 23, 2018, 02:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
So, the first lady visited a facility holding children today.
She wore this jacket...


The complete tone-deafness of these people is astounding.

she looks like a massive olive.
( Last edited by Hg2491; Jun 23, 2018 at 02:08 AM. Reason: forgot quote)
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 23, 2018, 11:51 AM
 
She knew where she was going, and why she was going. I'm pretty sure her closet is big enough for her to have a few jackets to choose from for the trip. That she chose to wear the one jacket in her closet that said "I don't really care, do you?" is either as deliberately vile as you can get, or stupendously stupid. I can't see any in-between on this one.

That she took it off before she saw the children is pretty irrelevant here. In some ways, it's even more incriminating.
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 23, 2018, 04:38 PM
 
Whether she had planned to take it off all along, or once the reaction was viewed had to borrow a jacket from an assistant... even starting out with that jacket is assinine.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 23, 2018, 10:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
She knew where she was going, and why she was going. I'm pretty sure her closet is big enough for her to have a few jackets to choose from for the trip. That she chose to wear the one jacket in her closet that said "I don't really care, do you?" is either as deliberately vile as you can get, or stupendously stupid. I can't see any in-between on this one.

That she took it off before she saw the children is pretty irrelevant here. In some ways, it's even more incriminating.
I also find it hard to believe no one that works for her said, "This might look bad."
     
reader50
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Jun 23, 2018, 11:18 PM
 
Melania likes expensive clothes. Sometimes $1,000+ for formal events. For this trip, she wore a $39 coat onto the plane. It's hard to believe it wasn't a message for Trump supporters. On the other hand, it's a really stupid way to send a message.

I'm on the fence on this. It's too much to be an accident. But it's too stupid also.

In related news, Sarah Sanders (current Press Secretary) was asked to leave a Red Hen restaurant in Lexington. The restaurant owner asked her to depart. She offered to pay, but the owner said her food was on the house. Sanders left without protest.
     
OldManMac
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Jun 23, 2018, 11:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hg2491 View Post
Lets take a second to put things into perspective: There is massive immigration from Central, South America, and the Caribbean into the US. But why is it that people are willing to risk their lives to come to "America" and be treated like shit for not speaking the language or looking a certain way?

The US has treated the rest of America as colonial pawns to ensure the survival of its political and economical agenda. Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Cuba are just examples of countries that have suffered - and currently suffer - from imposed US policies that did nothing but to harm them.

So no, 'America' - you cannot bake the cake and eat it. You cannot complain of having massive immigration from people who are looking for better lives because you have shattered the hopes of their countries of origin. 'America' was born under the pretext of finding a new land to be free and happy of oppression. So much for being the land of the free.

A wall will not fix the immigration issue. Separating families will not fix the immigration issue. Taking people to court will not fix the immigration issue. Having policies that encourage the growth of Latin-American economies will, on the other hand, fix the immigration issue. Taking away people's necessity to fleeing their countries WILL fix the immigration issue.

I am personally so disappointment right now. Sorry for the rant.
Well said, especially when illegal immigration peaked ten years ago, and more are now leaving than coming in.

This has nothing to do with rhyme or reason, and everything to do with a man who's playing president pandering to his racist, xenophobic, base. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if it were discovered that he would use the slogan "Make America White Again" if he could.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
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Jun 24, 2018, 03:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
I'm on the fence on this. It's too much to be an accident. But it's too stupid also.
When I first saw the photo, I thought she wanted to ding her husband and show her displeasure of having to play the role of First Lady. From all we know, she has never wanted the job.

But then I learnt about the circumstances, and it seems very tone deaf to say the least.
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
In related news, Sarah Sanders (current Press Secretary) was asked to leave a Red Hen restaurant in Lexington. The restaurant owner asked her to depart. She offered to pay, but the owner said her food was on the house. Sanders left without protest.
Society shows these people what it thinks. Especially in restaurants tons of staff (especially in the kitchen) are immigrants.

On a related note, a few articles have appeared that chronicled the difficulty Trump White House staffers have in the dating department.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 24, 2018, 10:36 AM
 
Sanders did protest, later. She sent a tweet naming the restaurant and location, so now the restaurant is flooded with fake reservations etc. Read an article by the owner, she said a lot of the staff is LGBTQ and Sanders position on that made them uncomfortable. She polled the employees and they wanted Sanders gone.

Now there's all this debate whether the restaurant had the right to kick her out, vs cake bakers, etc.
     
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Jun 24, 2018, 12:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Sanders did protest, later. ... Read an article by the owner, she said a lot of the staff is LGBTQ and Sanders position on that made them uncomfortable. She polled the employees and they wanted Sanders gone.
Sanders' later protest broke ethics rules, she used her official channel to protest a personal matter.

Do you have a link that it was LGBTQ reasons? The articles I've read are inconclusive on the reason, but I was sure it was ICE-related. The timing certainly fits with the kids-in-cages, and the first story mentions others being booed out of Mexican restaurants in DC. Others that were involved in the kidnapping policy.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 24, 2018, 02:26 PM
 
It was an incredibly disingenuous tweet. She tried to play it off like she was taking the high road, while naming it which she knows people would run with.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 24, 2018, 03:04 PM
 
https://twitter.com/SpoxDHS/status/1009502457058201600
It’s unfortunate that @AmericanAir , @united, and @FlyFrontier no longer want to partner with the brave men and women of DHS to protect the traveling public, combat human trafficking, and to swiftly reunite unaccompanied illegal immigrant children with their families.
Have we ever had Department spokespersons attacking companies like this before?
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 24, 2018, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Sanders' later protest broke ethics rules, she used her official channel to protest a personal matter.

Do you have a link that it was LGBTQ reasons?
Here it is:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.7dd6a70a0d54

Several Red Hen employees are gay, she said. They knew Sanders had defended Trump’s desire to bar transgender people from the military. This month, they had all watched her evade questions and defend a Trump policy that caused migrant children to be separated from their parents.

“Tell me what you want me to do. I can ask her to leave,” Wilkinson told her staff, she said. “They said ‘yes.’ ”
     
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Jun 25, 2018, 02:38 AM
 
So 50% LGBTQ, 50% ICE. Good enough to remain on-topic for this thread.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 25, 2018, 08:56 PM
 
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the immigrant's great stumbling block in the stride toward being treated with sympathy is not the alt-right or the white nationalist, but the GOP voter who is more devoted to "order" than to justice.
     
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Jun 27, 2018, 01:33 PM
 
For our friends at CNN and MSNBC:
     
Laminar
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Jun 27, 2018, 05:04 PM
 
We just didn't expect them to show up in Charlottesville and receive such emphatic support from the president.
     
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Jun 27, 2018, 05:16 PM
 
I didn't realize Charlottesville is on the border.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 28, 2018, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
For our friends at CNN and MSNBC:
So rather than discuss any of the posts in this thread, you decided to bring in a straw man from cable tv? What do you expect us to do with this?
     
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Jul 1, 2018, 07:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
For our friends at CNN and MSNBC:
So, you're also trying to show us how oblivious you are that we're well on our way to another rise in fascism?
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 2, 2018, 12:41 PM
 
Godwins law does not apply when there are honest-to-goodness nazi tactics in play.
     
Chongo
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Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Godwins law does not apply when there are honest-to-goodness nazi tactics in play.
I guess that would make Bubba, W, and O nazis. Flores V Reno was first settled during the Clinton administration. It dates back to 1985. There are additional court rulings involved post 1997. That is the agreement that requires children not be held more than 20 days.
from the WaPo
Obama administration placed children with human traffickers, report says
By Abbie VanSickle
January 28, 2016
The Obama administration failed to protect thousands of Central American children who have flooded across the U.S. border since 2011, leaving them vulnerable to traffickers and to abuses at the hands of government-approved caretakers, a Senate investigation has found.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement, an agency of the Department of Health and Human Services, failed to do proper background checks of adults who claimed the children, allowed sponsors to take custody of multiple unrelated children, and regularly placed children in homes without visiting the locations, according to a 56-page investigative report released Thursday.

And once the children left federally funded shelters, the report said, the agency permitted their adult sponsors to prevent caseworkers from providing them post-release services.
( Last edited by Chongo; Jul 3, 2018 at 03:34 AM. Reason: Corrected dates)
     
reader50
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Jul 2, 2018, 08:43 PM
 
Chongo, are you implying Trump is under the control of Obama and/or Hillary? I'm not seeing why Trump's actions are somehow the fault of two people not in office. Unless they've got something heavy on him.

Obama is to blame for what happened during his term. Through Jan 19, 2016.
Hillary is to blame for her time in office. Since she was never sworn in, that doesn't leave much.

The Buck Stops Here. Trump is solely to blame for everything done by his administration since January 20, 2016. Unless you know he's doing whatever they tell him to do.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 2, 2018, 11:05 PM
 
What, specifically, does Flores have to do with Trump, chongo?
     
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Jul 3, 2018, 03:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
What, specifically, does Flores have to do with Trump, chongo?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reno_v._Flores

The Flores Agreement received increased public attention in June 2018 when Trump, his administration, and supporters cited the Agreement and Democratic recalcitrance as justification for the Trump administration family separation policy, in which all adults detained at the U.S.–Mexico border were prosecuted and sent to federal jails while children and infants were placed under the supervision of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.[41]
     
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Jul 3, 2018, 05:13 AM
 
Because Trump tells the truth.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 3, 2018, 10:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Isn't this a problem of Trumps own making? The past presidents you cited did not prosecute everyone coming over the border.

Do you believe in this zero-tolerance policy of Trump's?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 6, 2018, 01:32 PM
 
Should I consider this conversation finished, chongo?
     
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Jul 6, 2018, 05:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Isn't this a problem of Trumps own making? The past presidents you cited did not prosecute everyone coming over the border.

Do you believe in this zero-tolerance policy of Trump's?
Yep. BTW what did you say when Obama ended the "dry foot-wet foot" policy? Was that a gift to the Castro Bros?
     
Laminar
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Jul 6, 2018, 07:23 PM
 
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 6, 2018, 07:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Yep. BTW what did you say when Obama ended the "dry foot-wet foot" policy? Was that a gift to the Castro Bros?
"Yep" is the answer to which of the two questions?

Edit: And what's the answer to the other one?
( Last edited by The Final Dakar; Jul 6, 2018 at 08:00 PM. )
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 6, 2018, 08:00 PM
 
Just a reminder that this admin is heartless scum
https://twitter.com/elisefoley/statu...29369936596993
Clearer wording: The Trump admin is trying to say it shouldn’t be forced by the court order to reunite families it separated if it already deported the parent. The judge says it is.
     
subego
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Jul 7, 2018, 07:00 AM
 
Clearer wording: The Trump admin is trying to say it shouldn’t be forced by the court order to reunite families it separated if it already deported the parent. The judge says it is.
Unfortunately, this Justice Department mook wasn’t up to the task, but I am fully prepared to go before the judge and argue a blanket order to deport toddlers is a ****brained idea.
     
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subego
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Jul 7, 2018, 07:36 PM
 
I was asked the following question.

“How many people trying to enter the country illegally with children in tow should be arrested to stop a single instance of human trafficking?”

The answer of the person who asked was “all of them”.

I’m not sure that’s my answer, but I can’t say it’s because I can easily dismiss his.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jul 7, 2018, 07:48 PM
 
Trump is coming to the UK soon. Hopefully someone will ask to see a visa he doesn't have and we can lock Ivanka and Donnie Jr in cages to make a point.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 7, 2018, 09:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I was asked the following question.

“How many people trying to enter the country illegally with children in tow should be arrested to stop a single instance of human trafficking?”

The answer of the person who asked was “all of them”.

I’m not sure that’s my answer, but I can’t say it’s because I can easily dismiss his.
It's a minuscule percentage of illegals. Context matters in relation to the question.
     
subego
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Jul 8, 2018, 01:23 AM
 
If what’s meant by “it” is “the number of people trafficked/trafficking”, the question provides the context: one incident.

I don’t see how “one incident” is incompatible with “minuscule”. The number is as low as can be gotten without being zero.
( Last edited by subego; Jul 8, 2018 at 03:05 AM. )
     
Thorzdad
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Jul 8, 2018, 10:30 AM
 
It's a disingenuous question in that the issue of human trafficking is really just a straw man being used to a) conflate the issue with illegal immigration, and b) justify mass arrests of all illegals crossing with children. You could just as easily use the human trafficking argument to stop any group from entering the country, legally or illegally, with scant (or no) evidence that it's actually an issue associated with that group.

How many sitting Presidents using the H-2 visa program to bring young women into the country should be arrested to stop a single instance of human trafficking?
     
el chupacabra
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Jul 8, 2018, 11:21 AM
 
What do you do in the event the child of a crossing illegal alien is a US citizen? Turn them away to keep them with their parents? Or let the illegal in the US to keep them with their kids?
     
 
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