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JoeDokes · May 29, 2007, 12:57 PM

All right, here’s the question. I’ve waited since December for the update to the Mini. My theory is that the update will certainly come with 1Mb standard RAM and might include the Core 2 Duo chip. The machine as it is right now will do what I need. I’m just reluctant to spend for memory if I don’t have to. Now, with the cancellation rumors, a new problem. If I buy now, of course, they will upgrade (and the next OS will no doubt require the Core 2 Duo chip). But Apple might also introduce a replacement machine that will make me ill with envy. If I wait yet longer, what are the chances there will be something comparable (ability to attach my own monitor, small, and quiet to run)? And remember, I don’t “need” more than the Mini already does, but I’m frantic at the thought of missing out on something slightly better. Any thoughts?

iDaver · May 29, 2007, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by JoeDokes

Any thoughts?

Only that I'm in the exact same boat. I hope it doesn't spring any leaks. Waiting.

imitchellg5 · May 29, 2007, 02:51 PM

The next OS will definetly not require Core 2 Duo. That would be stupid if it could only run on the newest Macs. I think that if you don't need more than the Mac mini offers right now then you should just go ahead and order it. The thing is with Apple stuff is that no matter how much you spend in about 8 months something better will be out. This goes for the Mac mini and the Mac Pro.

iDaver · May 29, 2007, 03:31 PM

I just really hate to buy a computer at the end of the normal six month upgrade cycle and I'm sure JoeDokes does too. The mini is overdue for a refresh, which leads me to believe maybe the rumor is true and it's being discontinued. If that's the case, I'd rather get the new cool model that replaces it if it's in the same price range.

P · May 29, 2007, 04:09 PM

I wish whatever replacement machine Apple comes up with has more than 1 megabit of RAM...

I'd wait and get the Mac mini as a refurb if it really dies. Many lesser-known or PC-focused mailorder companies also tend to have older models around for a while after the upgrade, to be sold to people who don't know better, so if all else fails you can but the current model after the update.

mduell · May 29, 2007, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by P

I wish whatever replacement machine Apple comes up with has more than 1 megabit of RAM...

No! Bring back the 128k Mac!

andyr2120 · May 30, 2007, 01:00 AM

Well I know one thing -- if we don't have an answer to this question by the time WWDC is over, there will be some insanely frustrated mac fans around here! I feel it, and I'm not even seriously in the market for a new machine. There has to be some sort of resolution. I guess I'll be reading the live webcast of the keynote AGAIN this year.... and my gut is telling me there won't be any significant news about mac hardware. It will be all about iphone and 10.5. New hardware will dribble out, with minor updates over the next six months or so. Maybe we'll get what we want in early 2008? There now, I've depressed myself for no good reason again...

Simon · May 30, 2007, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by P

I'd wait and get the Mac mini as a refurb if it really dies. Many lesser-known or PC-focused mailorder companies also tend to have older models around for a while after the upgrade, to be sold to people who don't know better, so if all else fails you can but the current model after the update.

I absolutely agree. Even if Apple indeed cans the mini you should be able to pick one up from a store or from Apple as a refurbished item even after they officially discontinue it.

Now, you might also be fed up with the waiting game by now. And it sounds as if all you're waiting for is a possible 512MB->1GB RAM upgrade. Is 1 GB really enough? SO-DIMM prices are very low right now and if you'd consider buying two 1 GB SO-DIMMs from a third-party you might as well go ahead and buy the current mini with 2x256MB now. The 256 MB SO-DIMMs make great earrings.

mduell · May 30, 2007, 05:54 PM

If the mini is canceled and you pick up a cheap one on close-out, you can drop a 2.33Ghz C2D in for a bit (or a lot, if you're starting at 1.5Ghz CS) more CPU performance.

imitchellg5 · May 30, 2007, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

If the mini is canceled and you pick up a cheap one on close-out, you can drop a 2.33Ghz C2D in for a bit (or a lot, if you're starting at 1.5Ghz CS) more CPU performance.

As a couple of people one the forums have done (surprised they don't talk about it more though). I'd buy a cheap one and put it in my car's dashboard with a touchscreen.

TomR · May 30, 2007, 09:21 PM

Well if they DO can it I may buy an intel mini since this PPC mini is so awesome.
Unless they have something in the pipe close to it just a hair bigger.....

Tom

Jim Paradise · May 31, 2007, 04:56 AM

While I realize there would be drawbacks to this compared to some of the options that the headless Mac mini provides, but has anyone considered that Apple might price the 17 inch iMac into the range of the Mac mini? Not that I think Apple will do this, but if they do migrate to 20 inch screens to replace the 17 inch ones, it would be possible for them to start selling iMacs to the non-education market below $1000.

Simon · May 31, 2007, 05:00 AM

It seems rather unlikely that Apple could reduce the price of the 17" EDU iMac by $400 (40%).

Jim Paradise · May 31, 2007, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

It seems rather unlikely that Apple could reduce the price of the 17" EDU iMac by $400 (40%).

With the education discount, the low-end iMac already costs $999 in Canada. If they move to 20 inch screens to replace the low-end iMacs, they could easily drop the price by $200-300. I don't think Apple will necessarily abandon a headless Mac, but I could see the low-end iMacs becoming much more affordable. It would be great for Apple: take their popular and well-designed flagship computer, and make it finally available to the masses well-below $1000.

Simon · Jun 1, 2007, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Paradise

With the education discount, the low-end iMac already costs $999 in Canada.

In the US the cheapest iMac is $999. That's why I'm saying they would need to drop the $999 price tag by $400 according to your suggestion of replacing the $599 Mac mini. And I seriously doubt that will happen.

If they move to 20 inch screens to replace the low-end iMacs, they could easily drop the price by $200-300.

Possible. But that would put the iMac at $699-$799. In terms of price that's not a replacement for the $599 mini. Even if you factor in a cheap 17" display.

I don't think Apple will necessarily abandon a headless Mac, but I could see the low-end iMacs becoming much more affordable. It would be great for Apple: take their popular and well-designed flagship computer, and make it finally available to the masses well-below $1000.

I agree in the sense that I'd rather see them continue the 17" iMac at a lower price than just drop it altogether (assuming Apple can't/won't offer a $1k 20" iMac).

I'm all but convinced the mini will be discontinued. But if it is indeed dropped, Apple needs to either extend the iMac to a lower price point and/or introduce a HEM.

Jim Paradise · Jun 1, 2007, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

In the US the cheapest iMac is $999. That's why I'm saying they would need to drop the $999 price tag by $400 according to your suggestion of replacing the $599 Mac mini. And I seriously doubt that will happen.

Possible. But that would put the iMac at $699-$799. In terms of price that's not a replacement for the $599 mini. Even if you factor in a cheap 17" display.

I agree in the sense that I'd rather see them continue the 17" iMac at a lower price than just drop it altogether (assuming Apple can't/won't offer a $1k 20" iMac).

I'm all but convinced the mini will be discontinued. But if it is indeed dropped, Apple needs to either extend the iMac to a lower price point and/or introduce a HEM.

Unfourtunately, I think Apple won't do a combination of introducing another headless Mac and dropping the price of the 17 inch iMac; however, I never said that I thought they would replace the Mac mini with the iMac - just drop it into the price range. With the education discount, the Mac minis cost $658 and $879 Canadian, respectively. While a 17 inch iMac may not drop down below $700, I don't see why a $200-300 would be unlikely or impossible, and, as such, it would be priced within the range of the current Mac mini. If Apple left the integrated graphics into a low-end iMac (not that I would want them to), they could make the low-end headless Mac appealing as a Mac mini alternative while also introducing a decent graphics card and some expansion opportunities for a headless Mac within the sub-$1000 range.

terrymax · Jul 16, 2007, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

The Mini uses desktop RAM. Yeah, I know. It really floored me when I found out but it does. What a bigger form factor (taller, of course, not wider or deeper) would do in terms of RAM is provide room for more slots, or at least easier access (a separate door, or a space you could get at without completely disassembling it). But yes, a cube-shaped Mini with the same footprint would otherwise be much less expensive to make, and would offer room for a lot of other cool features.

The G4 Mini uses desktop RAM, the Intel Mini uses laptop RAM.

mduell · Jul 16, 2007, 05:11 PM

Yea, you can fit twice as many sticks of RAM in when they're half the size.

ghporter · Jul 16, 2007, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by terrymax

The G4 Mini uses desktop RAM, the Intel Mini uses laptop RAM.

That was two months ago and I already ate crow over it.

I was at that moment talking with a friend who has a G4 Mini and my head was all about his machine, not the Intel Mini, with which I have no hands on experience. mduell set me straight right away...

0157988944 · Jul 20, 2007, 07:38 PM

So... when is this discontinuation set to happen?

I wanna see what they replace it with if anything.

bearcatrp · Jul 27, 2007, 11:20 AM

My guess will be a mini type but about twice the size, a quad core chip, a ok graphics card and 4gb max ram along with the usual usb and firewire ports. Since the mac pro is over kill for most users and some would prefer to configure there own monitor, keyboard, and mouse, this setup would be a killer little desktop mac.
Randy

Sparkletron · Jul 27, 2007, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by bearcatrp

My guess will be a mini type but about twice the size, a quad core chip, a ok graphics card and 4gb max ram along with the usual usb and firewire ports.

This would be significantly more expensive and would almost certainly cannibalize sales from the PowerMacs.

However, I do agree with you regarding a taller, more cube-like form factor. The cost would be negligeable, and would permit more memory and regular desktop HDs. And please, Apple, no more putty-knife access. How do you go from creating some of the most ingenious opening mechanisms to creating one of the worst?

-S

iDaver · Jul 27, 2007, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sparkletron

And please, Apple, no more putty-knife access. How do you go from creating some of the most ingenious opening mechanisms to creating one of the worst?

I think Apple wants people to not be able to open the mini. They want them to upgrade to another computer instead.

unhappyending · Jul 27, 2007, 04:36 PM

Thinking the mini is only 2 years old, do you think Apple would kill it that early in it's life cycle? I really don't think so. I've opened my friends G4 mini, it's pretty scary. =]

0157988944 · Jul 27, 2007, 05:02 PM

They "killed" the G4 Cube after less than a year, replacing it later with the Mini. The Mini will have a replacement if it is "killed"

mduell · 08:46 PM

Making the mini about 3-4 times bigger would allow for desktop CPUs/chipsets/RAM/drives, which would save a lot of money and allow much higher performance.

512MB notebook RAM => 1GB desktop RAM
60-80GB notebook HDD => 250GB desktop HDD
1.66Ghz mobile Core Duo => 2.66Ghz desktop Core 2 Duo (with $40 savings)
1.83Ghz mobile Core Duo => 3.0Ghz desktop Core 2 Duo or 2.4GHz Core 2 Quad (yes, you read that correctly)

An $800 2.4Ghz quad/1GB/250GB/GMAX3100 'bigger mini' would put a huge dent in sales of the Mac Pro, even though the Mac Pro should be a $2500 2.5Ghz octo/2GB/400GB/8400GT by the end of the month. The real pros would stick with the latter, but the "I need slightly more than an iMac" and "I don't want an integrated screen" crowds would all flock to the bigger mini.

0157988944 · Jul 27, 2007, 08:41 PM

Were talking about the Mac Mini, a $400- $500 computer.

mduell · Jul 27, 2007, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

Were talking about the Mac Mini, a $400- $500 computer.

Looks more like $600-800 (starting price, plus RAM/disk upgrades for most users) computer to me.

0157988944 · Jul 27, 2007, 08:44 PM

Still, all that stuff ain't goin in there.

mduell · Jul 27, 2007, 10:57 PM

All those desktop components are the same price as the laptop components they're currently using.

Simon · Jul 28, 2007, 03:49 AM

The mini has its purpose. Nobody wants to put a HEM in their living room bookshelf to serve their audio/video. Especially at the $500 price point (the one it originally had and should go back to) it was a really sweet deal.

The HEM is not a souped up mini. It's a full blown desktop computer. If anything it's more like an iMac with desktop components minus the screen. And although a lot of geeks would love it, Apple simply doesn't seem to want to do it. Personally, I'd consider it a non-issue if the iMac would use real desktop components. That might make it a tad bulkier, but it would be less expensive to build and have better performance too.

And as I've already pointed out several times with Apple's engineering experience they should be able to make a HEM that attaches easily to a (possibly modified) ACD. Sell it with the ACD as an AIO and call it iMac. Sell it without the screen as a HEM and call it whatever. Same machine, same margins, but more choice.

TailsToo · Jul 28, 2007, 01:43 PM

Hopefully, with no Mini, they will actually come out with a model between the iMac and the Mac Pro that has been rumored for years.

mfbernstein · Jul 28, 2007, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by TailsToo

Hopefully, with no Mini, they will actually come out with a model between the iMac and the Mac Pro that has been rumored for years.

They're going to replace an ultra-low-end machine with a moderately high-end machine? Doesn't sound like the Apple I know.

Simon · Aug 6, 2007, 01:12 PM

These guys say the Mac mini's history starting tomorrow.

darkmatter · Aug 6, 2007, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

These guys say the Mac mini's history starting tomorrow.

Official mourning for the Mac community

auxlepli · Aug 6, 2007, 05:29 PM

If true, that's a shame. I was just thinking about buying one too. Figures.

lpkmckenna · Aug 6, 2007, 05:36 PM

The Mac mini won't be cancelled. It might be replaced with a new name and/or new form-factor, but there will continue to be a "headless iMac" from Apple. I have no doubts.

0157988944 · Aug 6, 2007, 05:44 PM

Keeping in mind that they are saying that the source is crap.....

tintin220 · Aug 6, 2007, 10:37 PM

I honestly doubt that the Mac Mini will be discontinued. Apple, as much as it hates low-end products, is not stupid and they realize the need for a cheaper introductory model to entice switchers. I imagine there will be a new redesign of it, possibly rebranded, but they won't kill it off.

Especially if Apple eventually adds an ultraportable, it would match perfectly to have 3 models in each line (desktop/laptop).

Simon · Aug 7, 2007, 03:05 AM

...and these guys say the Mac mini's here to stay and that it will actually get the long-awaited update.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see the mini EOL'ed if it were replaced with a new inexpensive headless Mac. But as long as such a device isn't launched IMHO Apple needs a desktop for the sub-$1k market. Rumor has it the new entry level 20" iMac will start at $1199, IOW the $999 17" configuration will be dropped. I'm not at all opposed to dropping that config, but it underlines the need for a less expensive alternative.

darkmatter · Aug 7, 2007, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Veltliner

A recent article of appleinsider reports exactly this.

I wonder if there are many who are sorry for its demise, like for the cube's. Like many I have once toyed with the thought of buying one, but it wasn't just enough computer. And then the integrated graphics... brrr.

AppleInsider | Closing the book on Apple's Mac mini

Hello, I was sorry and sad until today
Nice that the Mac mini lives

mduell · Aug 7, 2007, 06:31 PM

Still flogging that two year old video card...

mfbernstein · Aug 7, 2007, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Still flogging that two year old video card...

Doesn't seem to be hurting the MacBook terribly... :-)

I too am happy that the Mini is still around. A cheap Mac that can use existing peripherals (monitor mainly) is a nice option. Certainly, it beats the iMac G3 days when you had a choice between a B&W G3 tower (expensive then) and a candy-colored iMac on the desktop.

Veltliner · Aug 8, 2007, 12:42 AM

I think Apple should say goodbye to integrated graphics.

mduell · Aug 8, 2007, 12:43 AM

I'm quite happy the Mac mini is staying around; I'll probably pick one up for an HTPC when decent software is available. But with 965GM (with GMA X3100) reportedly being cheaper than 945GM (with GMA950), it's really annoying that they won't update it (or the MacBook).

Simon · Aug 8, 2007, 07:56 AM

If the GMA 950 is good enough for the $1099 MB, it's certainly good enough for a $599 Mac mini. I'm all for swapping it, but if anything I want it swapped on the MB first. That said, I'd also rather see 802.11n added to the Mm first.

P · Aug 8, 2007, 08:56 AM

Intel's having MAJOR driver problems with the X3100 integrated graphics on the Windows side. They're only now getting the drivers ready, and the chips have been out there for a year or more. I think we won't see an update to 965G until there are Mac drivers are in a usable state, and I imagine that that is a rather low priority for Intel right now.

Apple saves a lot of cash by staying with integrated graphics. They're not going to upgrade without either increasing the price (bad) or decreasing component costs somewhere else (probably worse). For the mini segment, integrated graphics are fine. The complaints stem from the fact that some people wish that the Mac mini were that elusive xMac.