[fisherKing]

wherefore art thou?

i'm not even talking shapeshifter, i know that, in 10.5, this one's difficult.
but where's fruitmenu (my fave), mightymouse?

anyone know whats up?

[mac1984]

It is almost as if they have closed shop. Too bad as there have been so many good developers go by the wayside through the years.

[Aegis]

Where there's money to be made you can be sure work is being done. I think it's just a matter of time.
I'm sure they've hit more than one brick wall trying to get their haxies working. It would be nice if they were more vocal about their progress (or lack thereof).

[Ishan Bhattacharya]

It's the Apple tradition, don't you know? No updates on their blog or any update whatsoever about any of their haxies. Of course, critical comments about Apple made my Unsanity may have something to do with their (apparent) lack of success so far in getting a beta of any their haxies out (and I've bought all of them and really miss them). Hopefully, rosyna or others will keep their loyal-and increasingly impatient-customers in the loop a bit more in the future.

[@pplejaxkz]

I just don't like being in the dark. I wish they could release some news on what's going on. Even if they were to say that it's delayed a year. I'd just would like to know.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by @pplejaxkz 

I just don't like being in the dark. I wish they could release some news on what's going on. Even if they were to say that it's delayed a year. I'd just would like to know.

agreed; the blog is like traveling back in time. no new news...
anyway, miss my haxies...

[DarkStarRed]

I to used to have all Unsanity's haxies like Clear-doc, Xounds, Shapeshifter among others but for my Sounds I just dropped them into User>Library>Sounds. So now I have Hal telling me "There's have a message for You!" Of-course this doesn't get to system sounds has trash but I'm happy.

[Big Mac]

Apple closed the security holes that let them operate. You guys make it sound like Unsanity was doing good things by hacking the OS.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Apple closed the security holes that let them operate. You guys make it sound like Unsanity was doing good things by hacking the OS.

I still say they were doing good things by hacking the OS. Whether you think the tradeoff of closing the holes is worth not being able to do those good things, I don't see how you can argue that theming or windowshade is bad.

[MacosNerd]

I wonder if the theming ship has sailed on.

More often then not APE seemed to cause problems or slow downs. Add on the fact that apple continually modified how things worked, which meant unsanity had to always regroup. and figure out how to get it working.

Personally I've stopped using themes and haxies a long time ago. I do wish apple would see the light and let creative folks customize the look of their machines, instead of clamping down. Heck they could create a whole cottage industry by opening it up.

[fisherKing]

there are a million shareware and freeware apps out there to modify the gui in os x, to give us choices on how to use the os. that (for me, at least) is essential.

unsanity has made some great hacks, and i miss the ones i used.
i never had problems with APE, and look forward to fruitmenu (at the very least).

[Koralatov]

Gah. APE is possibly the worst thing that ever happened to me on the Mac: I had not one, but two issues that were solved by simply removing that particular piece of 'software'. As such, I consider it little better than malware, and I am extremely sceptical of Unsanity as a result.

That said, I'm sure some people find their software genuinely useful, but I wouldn't touch any of it with a barge-pole.

[Chuckit]

I've had issues that were caused by bugs in OS X, but I wouldn't call it "malware." It's not that Unsanity was simply sloppy or intentionally malicious — it's just that the things Unsanity's software does are not easy tasks, and there are bound to be some cases where something doesn't work right. There is simply no better way to accomplish the things they were doing.

[fisherKing]

i have to say, i never had a problem with ape; and i've used haxies for a long time (shapeshifter, fruitmenu, cleardock, mightymouse).

the functions they provide make them, for me, essential (well, fruitmenu at least).

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

It's not that Unsanity was simply sloppy or intentionally malicious — it's just that the things Unsanity's software does are not easy tasks, and there are bound to be some cases where something doesn't work right.

Perhaps 'malware' was a slightly strong term, but my criticism stands, I feel, when you consider that the programs APE borked were iTunes and iChat. Had they been obscure third-party programs, I would have been slightly more forgiving, but seeing as these two come pretty much as a part of OSX, wrecking them is not cool in my book.

What makes me even less charitable toward Unsanity is the fact that all I had to do was delete APE and everything started working just fine instantly. Worse still, I have absolutely no idea how it got onto my Mac (I'm assuming some program I installed somewhere along the line installed it). That said, I'm sure there are people out there who get a lot of useful functionality out of APE and various other Unsanity products. I still think that Unsanity should warn people that using APE might cause undesired problems further down the line...

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Koralatov 

Perhaps 'malware' was a slightly strong term, but my criticism stands, I feel, when you consider that the programs APE borked were iTunes and iChat. Had they been obscure third-party programs, I would have been slightly more forgiving, but seeing as these two come pretty much as a part of OSX, wrecking them is not cool in my book.

But it's not as though APE normally interacts badly with these programs. Most people use APE without messing these programs up at all. APE + iTunes = fine. So there is obviously some extra factor in your particular case that makes it APE + [something] + iTunes = BOOM.

I understand why you wouldn't want to use it, and I think that's a perfectly valid choice. I'm just saying, I really don't think it's bad software per se.

[boy8cookie]

Originally Posted by Koralatov 

Perhaps 'malware' was a slightly strong term, but my criticism stands, I feel, when you consider that the programs APE borked were iTunes and iChat. Had they been obscure third-party programs, I would have been slightly more forgiving, but seeing as these two come pretty much as a part of OSX, wrecking them is not cool in my book.

What makes me even less charitable toward Unsanity is the fact that all I had to do was delete APE and everything started working just fine instantly. Worse still, I have absolutely no idea how it got onto my Mac (I'm assuming some program I installed somewhere along the line installed it). That said, I'm sure there are people out there who get a lot of useful functionality out of APE and various other Unsanity products. I still think that Unsanity should warn people that using APE might cause undesired problems further down the line...

Excuse me, but if there's software on your computer that you don't know about, and it didn't come with your machine, that is your fault. Don't blame Unsanity, or anyone else for that fact that you clicked too quickly through your install processes, and don't know what's being installed on your computer. I can tell you it's not Unsanity's goal to render your machine inoperable. How would that benefit them? (it wouldn't).

I'm not even sure what to make of your last line. Are there computer problems that are desirable? Didn't think so.

Using APE will not cause problems, users of APE may, though.

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

But it's not as though APE normally interacts badly with these programs. Most people use APE without messing these programs up at all. APE + iTunes = fine. So there is obviously some extra factor in your particular case that makes it APE + [something] + iTunes = BOOM.

Well, I have absolutely no idea what caused the issue. The only programs I really use that don't come as standard on my iMac are Adium and VLC. So, it's quite possibly one of them, in that case; which is worrying, considering that they're both very common programs.

I understand why you wouldn't want to use it, and I think that's a perfectly valid choice. I'm just saying, I really don't think it's bad software per se.

With the exception of genuine malware, spyware and viruses, there is no 'bad' software, per se. But I've read a lot about APE causing people problems, which leads me to believe it's not a 'good' piece of software either. That said, to each his own; if people get some use out of it, then bully for them, but I felt it prudent to bring up the subject of APE's undesirable side-effects.

Originally Posted by boy8cookie 

Excuse me, but if there's software on your computer that you don't know about, and it didn't come with your machine, that is your fault. Don't blame Unsanity, or anyone else for that fact that you clicked too quickly through your install processes, and don't know what's being installed on your computer. I can tell you it's not Unsanity's goal to render your machine inoperable. How would that benefit them? (it wouldn't).

You're absolutely right. I should have known it was on there, and I'm not blaming them for installing it surreptitiously. That said, I've come across a few apps that need APE installed, and I suspect one of them did it. Again, you're absolutely right--I should have paid more attention during the install(s). Thank you so much for bringing this gross oversight on my part to my attention.

I'm not even sure what to make of your last line. Are there computer problems that are desirable? Didn't think so.

My apologies. I should have been more precise with my choice of words. What I had intended to type was "undesirable operation", not "undesirable problems". Thanks for picking up on my error; much appreciated.

Using APE will not cause problems, users of APE may, though.

That's a trifle rash. To take that statement at face value, you're saying that using APE is guaranteed to cause absolutely no undesirable operation whatsoever? I find that incredibly hard to believe. As I said, I was definitely somewhat at fault for not paying attention as to how it got there, but I still think my point stands about it causing unnecessary issues with totally standard software.

[@pplejaxkz]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I still say they were doing good things by hacking the OS. Whether you think the tradeoff of closing the holes is worth not being able to do those good things, I don't see how you can argue that theming or windowshade is bad.

I also agree, you make it seem like Unsanity was hacking the OS maliciously. If anything it was giving people more freedom and making some feel more at home in an already good OS.

I wonder if the theming ship has sailed on.

There will always be people tinkering around with themes as long as a way can be found. Sometimes it just takes a while. I wouldn't say the ship has sailed yet. I could see maybe if you said the ship of hacking the OS to theme it. Hopefully in Macs future they can just incorporate theming into their OS. As a proud Mac user, I still don't understand their reasons for not doing so.

[Aegis]

Originally Posted by Koralatov 

You're absolutely right. I should have known it was on there

Don't feel too bad. I believe some Logitech drivers use APE without informing the user. Audio Hijack also uses APE but I don't know if it's made clear.

[Big Mac]

Which is a despicable practice, IMO. If I buy a product from a well known company, I expect a proper driver and not a hack.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Which is a despicable practice, IMO. If I buy a product from a well known company, I expect a proper driver and not a hack.

Because a kernel extension is so much safer?

[Big Mac]

I think the history of OS X demonstrates that to be the case. Sure, there have been some high profile exceptions, but in general third parties have done Kexts well. I have never had a third party Kext cause a problem.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Aegis 

Audio Hijack also uses APE but I don't know if it's made clear.

Yes, they make it quite clear that the "instant hijack" feature requires APE. You don't have to install APE if you don't use the instant hijack feature.

[voo]

Originally Posted by Aegis 

Don't feel too bad. I believe some Logitech drivers use APE without informing the user. Audio Hijack also uses APE but I don't know if it's made clear.

They were. Logitech was bundling APE with their Control Center for the past year or two. The last release now, they abandoned it. They are using some sort of input manager thing or something now. When they had APE on board, it was causing kernel panics when unplugging USB devices. Amongst many other nasty going ons.

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by voo 

They were. Logitech was bundling APE with their Control Center for the past year or two. The last release now, they abandoned it. They are using some sort of input manager thing or something now. When they had APE on board, it was causing kernel panics when unplugging USB devices. Amongst many other nasty going ons.

Personally, I think that's a positive development. Call me old-fashioned, but I expect something I pay for not to use a half-assed hack to provide its functionality. If a market is worth pursuing, it's worth pursuing properly. Also, the incompatibility of APE with Leopard is probably going to discourage manufacturers from taking the lazy route in future--another positive development.

[Chuckit]

If you think input managers are not a hack, you've got another think coming. APE gets a bad rap from some very vocal detractors, but the fact is that any way of accomplishing the things APE does is going to be a hack. There's nothing inherently better about input managers.

[Altair]

I miss my themes. It's one of the reasons that I've been contemplating downgrading back to Tiger. The other main reason is for wireless that would then work 100% of the time instead of only 50% of the time..

It is not sufficient for me to only be able to change the background and appearance color from blue to graphite.

[Spiddlydot]

Like many of the writers before me, I too want more than just the grey style that accompanies Leopard. It is just plain boring.

I would be interested to hear from FISHERKING when he wrote the statement ... there are a million shareware and freeware apps out there to modify the gui in os x, to give us choices on how to use the os. that (for me, at least) is essential..

I loved Tiger and my favorite theme was MUKU, and I am now so disappointed that I can't use it. I guess I have to be patient.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Spiddlydot 

Like many of the writers before me, I too want more than just the grey style that accompanies Leopard. It is just plain boring.

I would be interested to hear from FISHERKING when he wrote the statement ... there are a million shareware and freeware apps out there to modify the gui in os x, to give us choices on how to use the os. that (for me, at least) is essential..

i just meant ALL the little apps that give us custom behaviors, app launchers, tweaks, fixes...everything. i do miss shapeshifter (i was using the COLD theme), but feel i NEED fruitmenu...

so i return to my original question: unsanity, where are you?

[JellyBeen]

I did read a message from them before Christmas (MacThemes) I think, that said they would give us a quick update
on where things are standing. So far, we haven't heard BOO.
I realize they probably want to surprise us but... I think complete silence like this is bad for business.
Unsanity, let us know you're still playing ball please.

[cybergoober]

OT - Doesn't wherefore mean why?

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by cybergoober 

OT - Doesn't wherefore mean why?

does it? then that's the last time i borrow a phrase from that shakespeare hack....

[Chuckit]

It does. Juliet was asking why the man she loved had to be Romeo Montague, an enemy of her family. That's why she goes on to say that one of them needs to give up their family name.

[G0Ducks]

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

It does. Juliet was asking why the man she loved had to be Romeo Montague, an enemy of her family. That's why she goes on to say that one of them needs to give up their family name.

[Kate]

I wrote to Juliet, um, sorry, Unsanity, to hear if development has been halted or whatever fate APE may have encountered. I let you know if any answer gets in

[roosta]

maybe apple paid unsanity to stop APE development and they're too ashamed to admit it.

[Jasoco]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

agreed; the blog is like traveling back in time. no new news...
anyway, miss my haxies...

That's nothing. Remember As the Apple Turns? Not even a "We've closed up shop." post or anything. The last update is from 2005. During the time of PowerMac G5's and brand new Video iPod's.

[PimPamPet]

Originally Posted by Jasoco 

That's nothing. Remember As the Apple Turns? Not even a "We've closed up shop." post or anything. The last update is from 2005. During the time of PowerMac G5's and brand new Video iPod's.

So you're implying that Unsanity has closed?

[Jasoco]

I hope not. The Unsanity guys are a company. I'd hope for some sort of message. AtAT was just a guy and his wife with a blog... until that damn baby came along and tore it apart. Still, I'd have hoped for a "Well, things are getting pretty intense with the baby, so me and the wifey have decided to close up shop. Thanks for all the years of fun guys. See ya on the flip side." or something.

[Kate]

I received an answer from Unsanity.

1. They are still in development
2. They are delayed since they needed the final release of 10.5
3. They intend to release when it's finished together with the apps that depend on it and when they feel it is ready
4. Expect no further announcement about the state of affairs until release
5. Refer to the usual links for further news:

- Website: [unsanity] Welcome - Unsanity - Makers of Haxies, small useful utilities that enhance and redefine how Mac OS X works.
- Blog: [unsanity] Weblog - Unsanity - Makers of Haxies, small useful utilities that enhance and redefine how Mac OS X works.
- Newsletter: [unsanity] Unsanity Mailing List - Unsanity - Makers of Haxies, small useful utilities that enhance and redefine how Mac OS X works.
- Compatibility Page: [unsanity] Products Compatibility - Unsanity - Makers of Haxies, small useful utilities that enhance and redefine how Mac OS X works.

[fisherKing]

thanx for the info.
guess we will have to be patient, and use our macs as is (or with other shareware options...).

[mgehman]

Duke Nukem Forever anyone? I hope the updates come, but holding my breath I'm afraid would ultimately be fatal.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mgehman 

Duke Nukem Forever anyone? I hope the updates come, but holding my breath I'm afraid would ultimately be fatal.

Eh, Delicious Library 2 isn't even in beta yet, and it seems far less likely to break than Unsanity's haxies.

[@pplejaxkz]

Originally Posted by Kate 

I received an answer from Unsanity.

1. They are still in development
2. They are delayed since they needed the final release of 10.5
3. They intend to release when it's finished together with the apps that depend on it and when they feel it is ready
4. Expect no further announcement about the state of affairs until release
5. Refer to the usual links for further news:

- Website: [unsanity] Welcome - Unsanity - Makers of Haxies, small useful utilities that enhance and redefine how Mac OS X works.
- Blog: [unsanity] Weblog - Unsanity - Makers of Haxies, small useful utilities that enhance and redefine how Mac OS X works.
- Newsletter: [unsanity] Unsanity Mailing List - Unsanity - Makers of Haxies, small useful utilities that enhance and redefine how Mac OS X works.
- Compatibility Page: [unsanity] Products Compatibility - Unsanity - Makers of Haxies, small useful utilities that enhance and redefine how Mac OS X works.

Thanks for the info, links are nice too!

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Kate 

....4. Expect no further announcement about the state of affairs until release.....[/url]

I don't know what kind of announcement I'm expecting but that statement just seems SO lame to me. Why not make a monthly posting letting all their PAYING customers know how long they might have to wait for an update. Why not? Seriously.

[G0Ducks]

While I agree with you, the reason they don't give any times, or dates, or anything like that is because they don't want to be held to those dates. This eludes to some possible difficulties they are having. For the time being, I have given up on themeing, as have many many in our community.

Oh well, the party was fun until daddy took the keys away.... Or, whatev

Originally Posted by mrtew 

I don't know what kind of announcement I'm expecting but that statement just seems SO lame to me. Why not make a monthly posting letting all their PAYING customers know how long they might have to wait for an update. Why not? Seriously.

[PimPamPet]

Originally Posted by G0Ducks 

While I agree with you, the reason they don't give any times, or dates, or anything like that is because they don't want to be held to those dates. This eludes to some possible difficulties they are having. For the time being, I have given up on themeing, as have many many in our community.

Oh well, the party was fun until daddy took the keys away.... Or, whatev

Not only that, but it's also very stupid to have to write each month on a specific date that there is no news to share...

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by PimPamPet 

Not only that, but it's also very stupid to have to write each month on a specific date that there is no news to share...

Very stupid? Yeah right. Actually it's very stupid to leave your customers twisting in the wind with no clue what's going on. It's very polite and professional to write every month or two letting your customers know whether you're still alive and in business and working on the products that you're probably going to ask them to pay for again. And they don't have to worry about being 'held to' and dates they give. How could anyone possibly hold them to anything? How can you guys even defend them giving the silent treatment anyway? Talk about stupid. I loved and bought all their products and defended them all against people's saying they 'borked' their system, because they all worked fine, but I'll never buy them again after this. They can find all-new customers. The old loyal ones shouldn't have to beg for a clue when about what's going on.

[Spiddlydot]

The old loyal ones shouldn't have to beg for a clue when about what's going on.

Here Here!