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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Better than Virtual PC, on iBook

Better than Virtual PC, on iBook
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bleee
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Jun 25, 2002, 12:17 AM
 
If you have Windows Apps that you need to use for work or home and they are not available on Mac OS X i.e. Microsoft Visio, Microsoft Project etc..

I might have a better solution for you, if you have an 2K server kicking around at home or a XP Pro box turn on Terminal Services/Remote Desktop (XP)

Install Xfree86 (Xwindows) for Darwin took about 2.5 - 3.5 hrs to compile the whole thing (use fink). I also found this cool app that runs on Xwindows called rdesktop basically it's a Xwindows version of the Remote Connect client that allows you to connect to terminal Servers. And it does exactly what the windows version does.

I also ran a few apps and noticed they were allot faster than on OS X, IE on windows run remotely through rdesktop renders pages faster than any browser on the iBook written natively for Mac OS X. This was a huge disappointment for me even with 256 colours (rdesktop only support that atm). The Windows 2000 Server is an old Pentium II 266Mhz with 256MB Ram; my iBook is a 600Mhz G3 with 640MB Ram. Which leads me to believe that there is much improvement need to Mac OS X. Remember I'm running X windows with Darwin together with OS X and connecting remotely to a 2K server over 100Mbps. I�m not sure how much of a difference 24-bit/32-bit colour will make in terms of speed we�ll just have to wait for rdesktop to support that before we can find out.

I've included some screen shots, I have no clue how to directly link to the images on idisk so you'll have to use this...
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/brianlee81/FileSharing1.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/brianlee81/FileSharing1.html</a>
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kangolo
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Jun 25, 2002, 12:54 AM
 
I'm suprised nobody's ported this to run natively (via cocoa/carbon/whatever), it's still very much in development, but coming along strong.

The bugger tho is needing XP Pro/2k server/NT Terminal Server. It'll be interesting to see how the new MS tablets work out, as the first lot are aimed at home users, who need the RDP desktop sharing of XP Pro, that doesn't come with XP Home. Will MS allow XP Home users to add this functionality for free?

I've not tried out RDP over non MS clients, but if the performance is as good as the MS offerings it sure as hell beats VNC.

Of course, if you've got way too much time on your hands you'll set up for favourite MS apps under Wine or Win4Lin, then export your desktop to rootless X on the MAC.

<a href="http://www.lestercat.net/Apple_Remote_Desktop.php4" target="_blank">Instructions are here</a>
     
ciphun
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Jun 25, 2002, 03:18 PM
 
i don't quite see how this is better than VPC, when in order to use this, you seem to imply i need to have some sort of win2k server at my home or XP Pro, essentially meaning i need to have a pc, which i don't have at all. Thus, VPC would be better because you don't need a pc at your home to use it.

If im mistaken, please correct me.

cip
peace,

ciphun
     
hmr
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Jun 25, 2002, 03:24 PM
 
What I don't understand it why you would use such application software if you already have a PC... you could ALMOST just as well connect your Apple display to your PC ...

But this technology is cool anyhow - probably works in a similar manner as Apple Remote Desktop.
     
Eug
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Jun 25, 2002, 04:49 PM
 
Would anyone be willing to host the compiled program? I assume this would not work on a Windows XP/2000 Pro workstation as the host? Not that I'd use it much since if I'm near the PC I'd be using the PC, and if I'm away from the PC, I'd be on wireless LAN (too slow).

By the way, here are the directly linkified pix.

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/brianlee81/.cv/brianlee81/Public/ie256.jpg-link.jpg" target="_blank">Pic 1</a> <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/brianlee81/.cv/brianlee81/Public/win2k256.jpg-link.jpg" target="_blank">Pic 2</a>

<small>[ 06-25-2002, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Eug ]</small>
     
bleee  (op)
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Jun 25, 2002, 04:52 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by hmr:
<strong>What I don't understand it why you would use such application software if you already have a PC... you could ALMOST just as well connect your Apple display to your PC ...

But this technology is cool anyhow - probably works in a similar manner as Apple Remote Desktop.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">On a broader scale for example... I work with 3 software developers at work and their OS of choice is FreeBSD. They will use Microsoft Visio to draw up ERD's and UI designs. With rdesktop they could connect to the 2K server and all use Visio at once and you would only need 1 2K machine. Before I showed them rdesktop they did what you said they all shared 1 windows machine and drew diagrams off that.
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bleee  (op)
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Jun 25, 2002, 05:02 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Eug:
<strong>Would anyone be willing to host the compiled program? I assume this would not work on a Windows XP/2000 Pro workstation as the host? Not that I'd use it much since if I'm near the PC I'd be using the PC, and if I'm away from the PC, I'd be on wireless LAN (too slow).
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Actully you can connect to Windows XP Pro box and run your programs off it. Now what I'm not sure of is if rdesktop will connect to XP I know for sure that XP allows remote desktop connections cuz I use it at work. What I'm not sure of is if MS has changed any of the protocol for the XP Pro remote desktop. 2000 Pro Workstation does noe support remote desktop connections. As for wireless being to slow for this, thats not true either when I tested this on my 2K server it was on my wireless linksys cable/dsl router works fine.
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Eug
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Jun 25, 2002, 05:33 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by bleee:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Eug:
<strong>Would anyone be willing to host the compiled program? I assume this would not work on a Windows XP/2000 Pro workstation as the host? Not that I'd use it much since if I'm near the PC I'd be using the PC, and if I'm away from the PC, I'd be on wireless LAN (too slow).
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Actully you can connect to Windows XP Pro box and run your programs off it. Now what I'm not sure of is if rdesktop will connect to XP I know for sure that XP allows remote desktop connections cuz I use it at work. What I'm not sure of is if MS has changed any of the protocol for the XP Pro remote desktop. 2000 Pro Workstation does noe support remote desktop connections. As for wireless being to slow for this, thats not true either when I tested this on my 2K server it was on my wireless linksys cable/dsl router works fine.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Eug salivates... I'm a Unix moron however. I don't even know how to run a compiler.

VPC 5 on an iBook 600 is just too painful, and it be nice to run Quicken and other PC programs on my iBook while I'm watching TV downstairs.
     
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Jul 30, 2002, 02:06 AM
 
Microsoft has released its own Remote Desktop Client for Mac, for use with Terminal Services.

Take a look at <a href="http://www.mactopia.com." target="_blank">www.mactopia.com.</a>

I haven't tried it out yet - basically because I really can't be bothered with firing up my Wintels...

Bankmann
---------------------------------------------------
Phat Basterd: G4/450DP - 1GB RAM/735GB HD
Chiaki: iBook G3/700 - 256MB RAM/30GB HD
& at least 8 other Macs in the closet...
     
bleee  (op)
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Jul 30, 2002, 10:03 AM
 
I've tried RDC from Microsoft works great replaces rdesktop. You don't have to install Xwindows or start Xwindows to use it which really saves on cpu cycles.
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iAdmin
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Jul 30, 2002, 07:56 PM
 
you can run 24 bit color. There is a Microsoft Knowledge base that shows you how to do this. You run MMC, set group policy and disable 256 color on XP.

The Mac client will then be able to login 16 or 24 bit
     
iAdmin
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Jul 31, 2002, 12:45 AM
 
<a href="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q278502" target="_blank">http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q278502</a>

DO a search for remote desktop 256 color.
     
Superchicken
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Jul 31, 2002, 02:37 AM
 
Anyone notice Mactopia is now just microsoft.com

ooooooooooooo could this be another MS shot back at apple... they might nota liked that comment

"Microsoft has .Net... and they don't even know what that is"

hehehe

I think Stevey boi might be getting apple in trouble with the lumbering giant.
     
Ken_F2
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Jul 31, 2002, 08:35 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">it got too scary that i ended up deleting the remote desktop connection for mac</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Beware of the dark side, young skywalker...

But yes, it is damn fast. Browsing these forums on my PC downstairs w/ IE6.0 SP1 for XP on my Mac using RDC is a good deal faster than Mozilla natively under OSX. Says a lot about the un-tapped potential for browsing under OSX.
     
bleee  (op)
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Jul 31, 2002, 10:45 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ken_F2:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">it got too scary that i ended up deleting the remote desktop connection for mac</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Beware of the dark side, young skywalker...

But yes, it is damn fast. Browsing these forums on my PC downstairs w/ IE6.0 SP1 for XP on my Mac using RDC is a good deal faster than Mozilla natively under OSX. Says a lot about the un-tapped potential for browsing under OSX.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">"un-tapped potential" Actually it says how much slower out iBooks are than a regular PC Mhz Myth, it's pretty sad when surfing "remotly" is faster than surfing on your iBook. Lets hope that 10.2 brings Mac speed to par with PC's I've tried surfing with RDC on a 2000 Server running on a PII 266MHZ with 256MB of ram and it's fast. iBook is 600Mhz with 640MB ram
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iChristopher
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Jul 31, 2002, 11:56 AM
 
I've been using the Microsoft RDC a bunch over the last week or so since it came out. It has been flawless and quite handy. Performance is excellent and allows me to do my windows work from my Powerbook. I like that...

Connecting to my Windows XP box was a cinch. I had to check one box on the XP box and simply point the RDC client and I was done. Maybe 3 minutes of setup, tops.
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theolein
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Jul 31, 2002, 08:19 PM
 
So, if I get this correctly, then one needs either WinNT Server or Win2000 Server or WinXP Pro. Is this correct?
weird wabbit
     
bleee  (op)
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Jul 31, 2002, 09:16 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by theolein:
<strong>So, if I get this correctly, then one needs either WinNT Server or Win2000 Server or WinXP Pro. Is this correct?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">You need either Windows 2000 Server (with terminal services enabled) or Windows XP Pro, I'm not sure if XP home will work haven't tried it. I find that XP pro is easier to configure for remote access.
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Ken_F2
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Aug 1, 2002, 03:18 AM
 
Windows XP Home does not offer Remote Desktop, only Professional. In 2000 Server, the setup isn't quite as simple (but it's not rocket science either). In XP, all you do is check this box in the System preferences panel and you are done.
( Last edited by Ken_F2; Aug 4, 2002 at 02:41 PM. )
     
gbafan
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Aug 6, 2002, 12:53 AM
 
AWESOME! I just so happened to be looking for similar third-party software today and go figure M$ just released a free version last month. Completely awesome.

Yes, I do have numerous PCs at home and only a G4 and a G3 B&W. I can finally get rid of my PC laptop and get a new iBook yet still connect to my company lan and use VSS! Sweet! Thanks for sharing!
     
Eug
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Aug 6, 2002, 12:20 PM
 
Works great. Thanks guys.

By the way, in case you're interested, in the other thread I've posted a picture of Remote Desktop running along side of Virtual PC on my iBook.
     
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Aug 6, 2002, 03:05 PM
 
Remote Desktop Connection rocks! I tried it last night on my Pismo and it's awesome! Now I don't have to carry two laptops around.
     
alex_kac
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Oct 11, 2003, 01:14 AM
 
I'm still interested in knowing if rdesktop binary installs for Apple's X11 is available.

Why? I have some issues with RDC that exist only with that app running.
     
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Oct 11, 2003, 07:20 AM
 
I read in this post about using MS Visio well there IS a Mac version - OmniGraffle Here
we don't have time to stop for gas
     
   
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