[ambush]

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:

SS 1.2 fixes the metal textures problem. System font colors are almost all fixed, so one can make dark themes and have readable text in white boxes, (can't be done without SS). Themeing with SS will be to the limits of Panther in the next few versions.
I don't know if I want to write a mod for Xtender just to fix the text colors, so I can make a black theme... If Xtender is to that point then maybe they do require some credit.
SS is a few steps ahead even if it doesn't have sound sets and other extras yet. I do recall that icon sets might also be a future feature of SS also.

As for everyone who has "problems caused by APE", you should contact Unsanity and stop wining about it. Unsanity is really helpful. I have no problems caused by APE same with a bunch of other people, that should say something about your setup...

Bro... are you the Unsanity spokespersone or what?

[swiz]

Originally posted by phillryu:
And you should keep quiet, something called an NDA no?

I thought I was the only one reading that going

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by phillryu:
And you should keep quiet, something called an NDA no?

lol No I'm sure it was posted here on the forums as a posable future feature not a slid plan. I've never heard anyone say anything about it being a solid plan for SS, maybe the " " made it sound like I knew something. And the metal stuff on MacThemes.net about Max's ports.

[fireside]

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:

SS 1.2 fixes the metal textures problem. System font colors are almost all fixed, so one can make dark themes and have readable text in white boxes, (can't be done without SS). Themeing with SS will be to the limits of Panther in the next few versions.
I don't know if I want to write a mod for Xtender just to fix the text colors, so I can make a black theme... If Xtender is to that point then maybe they do require some credit.
SS is a few steps ahead even if it doesn't have sound sets and other extras yet. I do recall that icon sets might also be a future feature of SS also.

you guys make it sound like XTender wont come with any mods. that is simply not true, listening to what Colin has to say. also, i think its stupid that you guys are only going to be supporting the first thing out of the door. i have to agree with Fluid on this, the only thing shapeshifter really has going for it currently is that it lets you theme Panther. i personally can't wait for XTender to see what what it can do. modding windows to do what you want them to do, i dont see SS going this way. it sounds like xtender is going to do a lot more than just customize the appearance of the system. so give the guy a break and cut the crap. he is working for a company you know.

[NetworkShadow]

Here's one of the topics that mention SS having icon sets. There are a bunch of mentioning of it, the most official source I've heard it from was phillryu I think.

All I siad was:
I do recall that icon sets might also be a future feature of SS also.

Originally posted by fireside:
you guys make it sound like XTender wont come with any mods. that is simply not true, listening to what Colin has to say. also, i think its stupid that you guys are only going to be supporting the first thing out of the door. i have to agree with Fluid on this, the only thing shapeshifter really has going for it currently is that it lets you theme Panther. i personally can't wait for XTender to see what what it can do. modding windows to do what you want them to do, i dont see SS going this way. it sounds like xtender is going to do a lot more than just customize the appearance of the system. so give the guy a break and cut the crap. he is working for a company you know.

I'll get excited about it if modding windows really is all that cool, if it allows more flexable themeing then sure bring on Xtender.

[cloudaj]

People tend to get impatient when dates are missed, and as it was a few weeks ago that gomac said there would be a beta later that week, couple with products dying and new ones that feature similiar functionalities springing up out of the dead...it just seems like a ploy for attention, thats the way I see it anyway. I wish gomac would stop with the announcments and just wait to talk until he had a finished, well refined product to announce and release. Thats how unsanity did it, and I have a lot of respect for that level of professionalism. I think when people feel they are just being given the run-around, they do get a bit upset and short of patience. Thats the way I think the current attitude towards gomac could be described.

Unsanity showed off ShapeShifter to theme developers and really sold them on it, thats why they went with it. AFAIK, this hasnt been the case with xtender. So they still have to prove themselves before anyone will jump on board. Nothing wrong with that at all, I would never blindly throw my support behind something.

The capabilities of xtender seem nice, but whether it really takes off ever is another thing completely. Without support its just going to flop, no matter how impressive the feature set. And i think with all the current SS users, most themers will have to make a version of their theme in guikit, at the least. So i think its going to come down to ease of use. If a themer can easily take their guikit theme to a format that xtender works with, then xtender has a chance of taking off, and once it takes off, its in pretty good shape. Otherwise, I think it will probably flop...hard. Though my guesstimation is prolly far from the truth, heh.

[bOOzo]

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
And the metal stuff on MacThemes.net about Max's ports.

When I mentioned that I'm waiting for SS to support the metal texture, I don't mentioned in which version it's going to be in though, that was something that Phil wrote.

[badidea]

Originally posted by Lord Sith:
I agree swiz, I run 'em all too and can't even remember the last time I had an issue........ Hell, they're betas are usually rock solid!!

Embrace UnSanity, they are here for you.

You can add me to the list with "no crashing apps" BUT ONLY because I have a pretty huge exclude list that's getting bigger and bigger!!!!

[TheSpaz]

I'm sticking with ShapeShifter. Unsainty doesn't fool around and talk about products that they don't release. ShapeShifter pioneered true Mac OS X themeing flexobility and they are coming along nicely. I can't wait until there's 2 theme formats out that so you gotta buy both Apps to get which themes you want. Ugh... Just let Unsanity deal with Theming. They know what they're doing.

[goMac]

Anyone that wants to can read our theme format. We wrote a whole framework just to do so and it is available now as part of ThemeKit.

On the other hand the only people that can read guiKit are Unsanity.

It seems rather absurd to suggest we shouldn't release Xtender because everyone should embrace a closed format, which creates a lock in. If anything, XScheme could become the standard because we provide classes to read, write, translate, and edit XSchemes, complete with parsers for various resources.

I don't think guiKit would be a good standard, but thats my opinion.

[phillryu]

Originally posted by bOOzo:
When I mentioned that I'm waiting for SS to support the metal texture, I don't mentioned in which version it's going to be in though, that was something that Phil wrote.

Oops. Yup, I did say something about "expect a release with the next version of SS that will fix metal issues". Sorry Jason!

[fireside]

Originally posted by TheSpaz:
They know what they're doing.

bahahaaha! thats funny, especially considering it was Colin who practically revolutionized the way to theme, making everything that you would want to theme in one package. i also believe he was the first person to make an app to switch themes for mac os x. so please, if anything, unsanity is the newbie in the market and colin is the old company that really knows what they are doing, since they practically started the whole theming craze by making it easy for anyone to theme.

[swiz]

Originally posted by fireside:
bahahaaha! thats funny, especially considering it was Colin who practically revolutionized the way to theme, making everything that you would want to theme in one package. i also believe he was the first person to make an app to switch themes for mac os x. so please, if anything, unsanity is the newbie in the market and colin is the old company that really knows what they are doing, since they practically started the whole theming craze by making it easy for anyone to theme.

Just for accuracies sake, MetamorphX was out long before Duality. And who cares if Colin has been around longer, who has produced the savvy-est, best supported theme tool yet? I'd say it speaks volumes that Unsanity has been on the OSx theme front for so much less time and already have FAR more credibility due to their results, not their claims.

I have nothign against Colin, he always sounds like he has the best intentions but everything he ever mentons is ultimately a let down, so until he ends that streak, he's earned it.

-edit, yes I am the worlds worst typer but I really can spell good.

[digitaljames]

Originally posted by swiz:
-edit, yes I am the worlds worst typer but I really can spell good.

Hey Punk....it's typist.

[swiz]

Originally posted by digitaljames:
Hey Punk....it's typist.

Who said anything about being smart ?

[jerseyfreeze]

Originally posted by swiz:


-edit, yes I am the worlds worst typer but I really can spell good.

What he means is he can easily spell the words he invents.

[cloudaj]

not too good with the grammer either, you said accuracies, it's not plural it's possesive, accuracy's would be the correct form

[Synotic]

Originally posted by cloudaj:
not too good with the grammer either, you said accuracies, it's not plural it's possesive, accuracy's would be the correct form

Just because digitaljames started it...

It's "grammar" not "grammer", also you wrote "possesive"... it's "possessive".

[cloudaj]

"touch� salesman..." --Peter Griffin

[phillryu]

Originally posted by swiz:
but I really can spell good.

Hey, it's spell well. Well is the adverb, good is the adjective I believe.

[goMac]

Originally posted by swiz:
Just for accuracies sake, MetamorphX was out long before Duality. And who cares if Colin has been around longer, who has produced the savvy-est, best supported theme tool yet? I'd say it speaks volumes that Unsanity has been on the OSx theme front for so much less time and already have FAR more credibility due to their results, not their claims.

I have nothign against Colin, he always sounds like he has the best intentions but everything he ever mentons is ultimately a let down, so until he ends that streak, he's earned it.

-edit, yes I am the worlds worst typer but I really can spell good.

Actually, for accuracy's sake, Duality was known as XMorph back then. XMoph was started before MetaMorphX, and both hit public releases at the same time. Both shared similar traits because we were working with the same theme designer, although I implemented most everything first. XMorph was released to the public May in 2001 iirc.

[swiz]

Thanks guys

[Holigen]

Originally posted by Synotic:
It's "grammar" not "grammer", also you wrote "possesive"... it's "possessive".

Haha, nicely done dude. Btw, your siggy isnt showing up for me.

I think this thread has gotten a bit off track...

[Dave-o�]

Smeger... Oh great master of the code... come out, come out, where ever you are... Could you please give us a rough update as to the release date of SS 1.5.. . It would make Jet Black just that much better in Photoshop

[Dave-o�]

oops.. my bad Smeger, should have read macthemes.net first i guess... Sorry Bro, no hard feelings...

[mac15]

if you only new how far SS 1.5 has come

[neo_2510]

Originally posted by swiz:
I beg to differ, I always run SS, Xounds, Fruitmenu, Mighty Mouse, Cleardock, iChat enahancer and Windowshade simultaneously and never experience app crashes.

APE is the culprit while playing Tiger Woods golf. APE keeps crashing that game. So I really hope that Unsanity will update APE asap. Disabling APE solved it - Point.

[digitaljames]

Originally posted by neo_2510:
APE is the culprit while playing Tiger Woods golf. APE keeps crashing that game. So I really hope that Unsanity will update APE asap. Disabling APE solved it - Point.

Never bothered me while playing.

[Rosyna]

Originally posted by neo_2510:
APE is the culprit while playing Tiger Woods golf. APE keeps crashing that game. So I really hope that Unsanity will update APE asap. Disabling APE solved it - Point.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You do know your computer cannot crash when it is turned off, right?

[neo_2510]

Originally posted by Rosyna:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You do know your computer cannot crash when it is turned off, right?

Disabling helped, but nothing else - or uninstall that would do it too.

[MacDog]

Originally posted by mac15:
if you only new how far SS 1.5 has come

If I only new, if I only old... If I knew the answer I could sleep at night...

[TheSpaz]

About GoMac...

Listen dude. I hate to say it, but Unsanity actually releases products then brags about them. You're the other way around. You brag and then never release.

Unsanity is ahead of you... they've got the whole themeing world making themes for ShapeShifter and ThemePark is a killer app (it's been out for a while now and it's still being perfected) I HATED Duality... it was slow, and it would give me errors half the time when I KNEW the theme was made in the correct format and correct OS version.

I can't believe how fast and easy ShapeShifter is to use... and I was gladly able to pay for it. By the way, I never paid for Duality.

Unless you can come up with something (before Unsanity beats you again with another update) we will still be skeptical to your products.

I'm sorry to rag on you so much, but it just seems like you just talk a bunch of sh*t and never deliver. I don't even read your posts anymore, all I see is: "Blah blah blah XTender Blah Blah Blah it's going to be Blah Blah Blah it has Blah Blah Blah and some more Blah Blah Blah"

I have an idea... get SnapXPro and take a video of XTender in action... that would be cool to see.

There... I feel better now.

[fireside]

Originally posted by TheSpaz:
Unsanity is ahead of you... they've got the whole themeing world making themes for ShapeShifter and ThemePark is a killer app (it's been out for a while now and it's still being perfected) I HATED Duality... it was slow, and it would give me errors half the time when I KNEW the theme was made in the correct format and correct OS version.

the only reason everyone is making themes for shapeshifter is *gasp* because its the only theme changer that works under 10.3. and last time i checked, ThemePark was built for making themes, and i'm pretty sure you can still make your themes in ThemePark, export them as .dtlas, then import them into Cataylst to re-export as .xscheme. so give me a break. people aren't using ShapeShifter just because its easy to use, etc, but because its the only 10.3 theme changer out there. while i admit i never really used Duality that much, but then i had to it worked. and if everyone goes well, you wont even have to use XTender to install .xschemes.

[NetworkShadow]

Everyone wouldn't shut-up about the price of SS at first, but it seems most everyone owns SS now. I'm not so sure everyone will be so hasty to shell out another $15 for XTender after bitching about SS' $20 fee for months, and then buying it anyway.
If anything SS has the advantage of everyone owning it already. I for one am very happy about registering SS. If there is no huge advantage of XTender over SS I really doubt I'll ever buy it.

[TheSpaz]

BRAVO NS!

[dws]

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
If there is no huge advantage of XTender over SS I really doubt I'll ever buy it.

I could see also purchasing Xtender (in addition to ShapeShifter), even if it doesn't have any huge advantages over SS. Competition is good. However, Xtender would have to prove itself to be as stable and versatile as SSv1.0 before I purchased it. It would also have to be associated with a theme editor that is at least as easy to use as ThemePark.

[For myself, I've already decided to not compare Xtender1.0 with ShapeShifter1.5 (since the two will be out at about the same time, give or take a month or two). I'll be a little more forgiving for the new kid on the block!]

[MorphOSX]

You know, I think this is where we have to sort fact from legend. No, Shapeshifter isn't the only themechanger out there. If you think it is, do research. ThemeChanger works fine under Panther. I used it for a long while before SS came out and had nothing but success. Shapeshifter is the only changer out there that uses the .guiKit format, and this is because .guiKit inadvertantly became closed due to the manner in which Smeger was creating it (i never remember him claiming it was closed, either...it's just not as readily editable as .dlta or whatever, since you have to go through two more steps to open up the theme to edit it.)

fireside seems to be under the impression that theme creators are using guiKit and shapeshifter just because it's the only application available. Wrong. If you go back and look at the archives, Themers such as Max, BBX, Swiz, etc. have said time and time again that ShapeShifter was **designed on their suggestions.** That's right. THEY HELPED CREATE SHAPESHIFTER TO DO WHAT THEY NEEDED/WANTED IT TO DO.

WHY is BBX waiting for Shapeshifter 1.5 to come out? it's surely not because there's no other themechanger out there, Themechanger gets the job done. It's *BECAUSE HE NEEDS THE FEATURES SHAPESHIFTER IS GIVING HIM*. Shapeshifter is a currently-available product that does things no other theme-changing application allows. There are many more features in the works that will continue to alter the way we look at themes. You think that's a lot of hype? Look at unsanity's history. They have never hyped a product, and every product they produce only gets better/more feature rich as the time goes by. ShapeShifter's not being hyped either. Themers are stating fact in that there are limitations which future editions of ShapeShifter will address that allow them to further expand their horizons of theming.

IF you don't want to support this product, fine. Don't. No one is holding a gun to your head. Download ShapeShifter, ThemePark, and in about 10 minutes, you can import all your favorite themes, export them as .dlta, and use them with ThemeChanger for free. I will garuntee you that several themes won't look right. Why? ThemeChanger and native theme elements in Aqua just don't support some of what's being done. Live with it. Or grow up and give the product a chance to do what it's designed to do and stop treating it like the second coming of christ. It's software. JUST SOFTWARE. It's not going to cure cancer, it's not going to change your life. IT's going to change the colors of the pixels on certain parts of your computer display to a custom color over what Apple thinks they should be. That's it.

My 2 cents.

Dave

[TheSpaz]

Originally posted by MorphOSX:
My 2 cents.

2 Cents? That was more like a $1.50!

[swiz]

Best $1.50 I ever read.

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by swiz:
Best $1.50 I ever read.

I agree.

I'm not going to flat out put down XTender though until I can test it and know what it does, heck it could be the next GUI killer app. Until then SS is it and I really could care less about XTender. I just don't think XTender will come barging on to the scene and take over as "best theme changer" even if it's good. SS has been out, SS is good and continues to get better.

My addtional 2�...

[goMac]

Originally posted by TheSpaz:
I have an idea... get SnapXPro and take a video of XTender in action... that would be cool to see.

Jees... I go away for a weekend and someone flames me.

As for Duality, we created the DLTA format. If there was a theme in DLTA format, and it didn't work in Duality, it probably used some strangely-implemented not-to-format ThemeChanger thing. Duality 3 was the first changer ever to ship with DLTA because we designed it.

Yes, it was slow, I know. Thats because it did a lot of things ThemeChanger didn't. It had a whole theme upgrading engine which allowed any theme to run on any system. We are ditching that code (which was worked on by a certain unnamed 3rd party who we gave royalties for Duality) and writing newer code for Xtender based on ThemeKit.

We're also very picky on what we are taking screen shots of. Remember, Xtender is more than a theme changer. Its a competing program for APE. There is a lot that has never been seen, nor announced, that deals with non-theme components. It will be released at the end of the March, in which case you can look at it all you want without us needing to make screen shots. We're not exactly under a lot of pressure to release screen shots here. We've released a screen shot of it in operation with a theme applied. That should be ample for now.

[orangep0ny]

here is another idea, make another one of your own formats that is as small as guiKIT knocking a 4.5 meg file to 300-400k and maybe shapeshifter will also support that at one time if it looks like it might work. i dont see why there is always fighting with theme formats. im sure there will be 10 more theme standards before someone makes another and another. who knows, who cares. if i can theme and be creative that is all that matters.

[goMac]

Originally posted by orangep0ny:
here is another idea, make another one of your own formats that is as small as guiKIT knocking a 4.5 meg file to 300-400k and maybe shapeshifter will also support that at one time if it looks like it might work. i dont see why there is always fighting with theme formats. im sure there will be 10 more theme standards before someone makes another and another. who knows, who cares. if i can theme and be creative that is all that matters.

We've already said we're going to use an enhanced version of the XScheme format which in benchs is compressing about twice as well as guiKit.

[Holigen]

Ok, I think Ive figured it out. Im gonna use whichever format and themechanger that all of my favorite designers (Max, swiz, BBX, Joe, wibs, others) are supporting. If some support Xtender/Xscheme and some support SS/guiKit then Ill just use both. I dont see what the big hubbub about this all is...

[wibs]

Originally posted by Holigen:
Ok, I think Ive figured it out. Im gonna use whichever format and themechanger that all of my favorite designers (Max, swiz, BBX, Joe, wibs, others) are supporting. If some support Xtender/Xscheme and some support SS/guiKit then Ill just use both. I dont see what the big hubbub about this all is...

honored to be in that list, heh. but for myself, I'm going to go with whichever has the best combination of being easy and being powerful. I already know the themepark/ss system so that has a leg up, but if xtender has significant advantages, and seems to be adopted by the community as a whole, I'll release themes in both formats if possible.

as for max, swiz, and bbx, they seem to be more closely tied to shapeshifter so I would be very surprised if they moved away from it.

[Holigen]

Originally posted by wibs:
as for max, swiz, and bbx, they seem to be more closely tied to shapeshifter so I would be very surprised if they moved away from it.

I agree on that

[WICKEDfour]

I have to partially agree with wibs on this one. I have complete faith in Jason Harris and Unsanity when it comes to theming technology. I've talked to Jason on many occasions and he's a very nice guy that can listen to your feedback. Jason is also very approachable and doesn't make you feel stupid or inferior at all. That's the key element here. I choose to support Jason and Unsanity because there's a face behind ShapeShifter. I can have a very pleasant conversation with Jason on almost a daily basis and I can read all about Slava, Rosyna, and Brian at Unsanity.org.

Also, Unsanity has open public betas, so anyone can see what's new in the world of Unsanity. Unsanity doesn't seem to have a huge problem with this; on the contrary, they get feedback before they've even released anything. In contrast, I know nothing about the people behind "Xtender" or why I should support it over ShapeShifter. The only thing I know is that someone is overhyping it. As others have said, Unsanity has never hyped any of their products without evidence. In the past they've posted teaser screenshots to their blog and provided details about their public betas that anyone can see. For another contrast, I know nothing about Carpe Stellarem except that I couldn't spell their name right if my life depended on it, but that's my own problem. So, who's it going to be, Jason Harris from Unsanity or 123456 from Company XYZ? I'm not looking for a flame war, I'm just presenting the facts.

[TheSpaz]

You know what would be funny? What if XTender blows up and everony loves it. What if it blows Unsanity's developments out of the water? I think that would be the funniest thing in the world... with all these people hating this XTender (which is a cheesy name by the way)... and it could actually be something great.

We'll know at the end of March though. Get ready for XTender, the next biggest thing in Theming Technology! ;-)

[swiz]

Originally posted by TheSpaz:
You know what would be funny? What if XTender blows up and everony loves it. What if it blows Unsanity's developments out of the water? I think that would be the funniest thing in the world... with all these people hating this XTender (which is a cheesy name by the way)... and it could actually be something great.

We'll know at the end of March though. Get ready for XTender, the next biggest thing in Theming Technology! ;-)

Xtender's claimed feature set is great, if it ever sees the light of day in its claimed form, it will be something great. That is the biggest hurdle Colin has to get over to this day. An actual, realized publicly vouchable product which meets all its internally generated hype.

[Tulkas]

Originally posted by WICKEDfour:
I have to partially agree with wibs on this one. I have complete faith in Jason Harris and Unsanity when it comes to theming technology. I've talked to Jason on many occasions and he's a very nice guy that can listen to your feedback. Jason is also very approachable and doesn't make you feel stupid or inferior at all. That's the key element here. I choose to support Jason and Unsanity because there's a face behind ShapeShifter. I can have a very pleasant conversation with Jason on almost a daily basis and I can read all about Slava, Rosyna, and Brian at Unsanity.org.

Also, Unsanity has open public betas, so anyone can see what's new in the world of Unsanity. Unsanity doesn't seem to have a huge problem with this; on the contrary, they get feedback before they've even released anything. In contrast, I know nothing about the people behind "Xtender" or why I should support it over ShapeShifter. The only thing I know is that someone is overhyping it. As others have said, Unsanity has never hyped any of their products without evidence. In the past they've posted teaser screenshots to their blog and provided details about their public betas that anyone can see. For another contrast, I know nothing about Carpe Stellarem except that I couldn't spell their name right if my life depended on it, but that's my own problem. So, who's it going to be, Jason Harris from Unsanity or 123456 from Company XYZ? I'm not looking for a flame war, I'm just presenting the facts.

No no, we call this skewing the facts. Let me explain:

We all know colin. He's been doing theme crap for as long as I can remember. I talk to him on a regular basis and I can assure you he has no serial number

Carpe Stellarum is the company he hooked up with. This means there is an actually team working on it.

Believe me, if its never realized colin will be far more disappointed than anyone here.