[MallyMal]

Check it,

Now that the Olympics are over I am really kicking myself for not getting to go. I could have networked a bit, caught some events, and wilded out the rest of the time. Plus I really dig the feel of the world community. I'm thinking I'm going to try and go to the 2008 Beijing games.

Has anyone been to Beijing? What's it like? Tell me something about it that I wouldn't hear on the news.

[MacGorilla]

ummm, have fun

[Sealobo]

Beijing, I will be there.

[MallyMal]

Isn't there a cat on here that lives Beijing? I think I saw Beijing as someone's location.

[soul searching]

Originally posted by MallyMal:
Isn't there a cat on here that lives Beijing? I think I saw Beijing as someone's location.

I believe Ois�n is currently studying in Beijing but he's from somewhere else.

[mindwaves]

Should be going!

[Joost]

Originally posted by MallyMal:
Check it,

Now that the Olympics are over I am really kicking myself for not getting to go. I could have networked a bit, caught some events, and wilded out the rest of the time. Plus I really dig the feel of the world community. I'm thinking I'm going to try and go to the 2008 Beijing games.

Has anyone been to Beijing? What's it like? Tell me something about it that I wouldn't hear on the news.

The desert is encroaching on the city at a heck of a speed, so the authorities have embarked on a huge tree-planting drive to slow the process -- more trees than you could imagine along the route from the airport. Verdict's still out on whether the policy's working.

When important dignitaries and Olympic delegations visit the city, nearby factories and coal-burning power stations (are) shut down for a while to help clear the air. Can't let the good folks from outside see how bad the pollution can get...

Many of the local noodle shops (ie, those geared to the good people of Beijing, rather than tourists) are awesome -- great range of food, very reasonable prices, really efficient service. And the beers they sell are cold enough and cheap enough to make you want to stay forever...

A visit to the Forbidden City is a must, as is a trip to Tiananmen Square -- both evoke memories of times past and yet remain at the heart of the city today.

[MallyMal]

Originally posted by Joost:
The desert is encroaching on the city at a heck of a speed, so the authorities have embarked on a huge tree-planting drive to slow the process -- more trees than you could imagine along the route from the airport. Verdict's still out on whether the policy's working.

When important dignitaries and Olympic delegations visit the city, nearby factories and coal-burning power stations (are) shut down for a while to help clear the air. Can't let the good folks from outside see how bad the pollution can get...

Many of the local noodle shops (ie, those geared to the good people of Beijing, rather than tourists) are awesome -- great range of food, very reasonable prices, really efficient service. And the beers they sell are cold enough and cheap enough to make you want to stay forever...

A visit to the Forbidden City is a must, as is a trip to Tiananmen Square -- both evoke memories of times past and yet remain at the heart of the city today.

Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' bout. I like info like this. Thanks

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by MallyMal:
Check it,

Now that the Olympics are over I am really kicking myself for not getting to go. I could have networked a bit, caught some events, and wilded out the rest of the time. Plus I really dig the feel of the world community. I'm thinking I'm going to try and go to the 2008 Beijing games.

Has anyone been to Beijing? What's it like? Tell me something about it that I wouldn't hear on the news.

Beauty salons in hotels often are fronts for prostitution.

Ecstasy is called "yao tou".

Most restaurant waitresses live in dorms run by the restauranteurs.

Bootleg DVDs include DVD-9s nowadays, and are single-digit prices in US$.

Construction workers are usually paid in the range of US$100 a month.

Westernized shopping malls in Beijing are nicer than the ones in North America.

Kids who work at Starbucks in Beijing get paid more than contruction workers.

Etc.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by Joost:
When important dignitaries and Olympic delegations visit the city, nearby factories and coal-burning power stations (are) shut down for a while to help clear the air. Can't let the good folks from outside see how bad the pollution can get...

And you can clearly feel it in the whole city when they do. Both by the cleaner air, and by the power outages which are much more frequent during those times.

Many of the local noodle shops (ie, those geared to the good people of Beijing, rather than tourists) are awesome -- great range of food, very reasonable prices, really efficient service.

Assuming you speak Chinese, of course, because most of the people who work in and frequent such places know only one word of English: "Hello". (As a foreigner, you will soon grow very tired of this word, since everybody in the city seems to feel it's their duty to call it after you everytime they see you passing on the street).

However, if you do speak Chinese (or go with someone who does), the prices in these noodle shops are more than just reasonable - you can eat a noodle soup (big) and two dishes, plus have a half-litre beer for about 15 kuai (about $1.8), and that is more than enough to serve as dinner for one person.

A visit to the Forbidden City is a must, as is a trip to Tiananmen Square -- both evoke memories of times past and yet remain at the heart of the city today.

I would put it slightly differently: A visit to the Forbidden City and a trip to the Tiananmen Square are a must because you cannot come back unable to answer the obvious Beijing questions (ie. "So how was the Forbidden City? And the Tiananmen Square?").

The places themselves are none too interesting, I feel. Basically, Tiananmen is a big square with some big buildings on each side (the kite flying is nice, though), and the Forbidden City is a long row of very similar (cynics would say monotonous) old buildings. All very beautiful, but mostly people just go there to say that they have seen these places.

Beauty salons in hotels often are fronts for prostitution.

As are sex shops, massage parlours, clubs & discos, karaoke places, and certain restaurants.

Most restaurant waitresses live in dorms run by the restauranteurs.

And most construction workers live in similar dorms, normally located in the basements normal apartment blocks (such as the one I live in). They usually live about 4-10 people in one room, and rarely have more than a bed for themselves.

Bootleg DVDs include DVD-9s nowadays, and are single-digit prices in US$.

But make sure you check if they work anyway. Be prepared to go back and change about 1/4 of the DVD's you buy here due to bad quality. Also, the DVD-9 bootlegs are rarely much better than the others, the only difference is that you'll be able to play them without having a zone-free DVD player at home.

Standard prices for non DVD-9 discs normally range from 6 kuai (72 US cents) to 12 kuai per disc; for DVD-9's, the price range is a little higher, normally from 8 kuai (96 US cents) to about 15-16 kuai.

P.S.: Why am I a cat?

[Randman]

Interesting, you use kuai instead of yuan. Is that how Beijingers refer to it?
If I'm still in Asia, I'll go to Beijing 2008. I got here when Sydney had the Games and just missed out on it (as I missed Atlanta when I had to work extra shifts after the bombing).

The level of English in Beijing is going to rise right before the Games, but personally, I still think Shanghai is a better city.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by Randman:
Interesting, you use kuai instead of yuan. Is that how Beijingers refer to it?

As far as I know, Renminbi are colloquially called kuai in Mandarin all over China... at least, they all had no trouble understanding me when I used it both Anshan and Guangzhou (only other places I've been so far); even in Hong Kong they understood it, when they understood Mandarin Chinese, that is... Yuan is hardly ever used in spoken Mandarin, as far as I've experienced - or rather, only in very formal connections. It is, however, nearly always used in writing.

The level of English in Beijing is going to rise right before the Games, but personally, I still think Shanghai is a better city.

The English level is already rising, particularly in the youngest generation, the ones that are in xiaoxue (elementary school) now. Their pronunciation is mostly still terrible, though...

[Randman]

Ah, that explains it. I've seen yuan in writing more often. Xi xi.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by Randman:
Ah, that explains it. I've seen yuan in writing more often. Xi xi.

Unless you're talking about cubic centimetres or laughing happily, it's xiexie, not xixi

[Eug Wanker]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "yuan". It's always "kuai".

Oh and "cat" is colloquial English for "person".

[Randman]

Originally posted by Ois�n:
Unless you're talking about cubic centimetres or laughing happily, it's xiexie, not xixi

Duibuqi. Xie xie is correct. Xie xie ni then (still learning it, never had a formal lesson just picked up some here and there, especially during my travels to the mainland. But the tonals are still kicking my butt).

[MallyMal]

A lot of good stuff here. I appreciate the info.

Originally posted by Ois�n:


P.S.: Why am I a cat?

It's just slang for person or male person like dawg/dog, dude, homey, or shawdy.

[wdlove]

I wish that both of you will have a great time in Beijing. It should be an interesting time.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by Joost:

When important dignitaries and Olympic delegations visit the city, nearby factories and coal-burning power stations (are) shut down for a while to help clear the air. Can't let the good folks from outside see how bad the pollution can get...

I've heard the same thing for a number of years. Is there any kind of environmental movement in China?

With the explosive growth of the Chinese economy I can imagine the problem only getting worse and worse. Is there any recognition about pollution or is 'growth' the only concern?

[turtle777]

Originally posted by soul searching:
I believe Ois�n is currently studying in Beijing but he's from somewhere else.

Maybe he can host two dozens of MacNNers...

-t

[ironknee]

i've been to beijing a few times but the last time was about 10 years ago so i am sure it's changed a lot since.

one thing i noticed is the accent of beijingers is a hard R sound

one of the best meals i've had was in some small restarant we found (god knows where) for dirt cheep

in another restarant, the waiter asked if we were interested in some in the waitresses for sex...although they were beautiful, we declined...

i wanted to find mao stuff...but could locate any...but did see the old man, the local joke is that Mao is a peasant under glass.

[waxcrash]

How hard is it to find Panda Cigarettes in China?

[hardcat1970]

my wife is from beijing, so i go there every other years (used to be every year). I just went there in june and it is getting whole lot better. Beijing used to have a lot of sandstorm, so the government has built a lot of trees and plants around the city and it has more trees than Hong Kong now. It is definitely getting a lot of greener.

I used to hate the local people because they are mostly rude and have no manners. It was tough getting around the city with public transportations. But if you have money to spend, travel with taxi and avoid the public transportation like buses. But subway is totally different story. The subway lines used to be short and it only covered major attractions like tiananman square and forbidden palace, but they have built up a lot of subway lines and in order to prepare for traffics in 2008, they will built more lines and it will be easier to get around town.

i can tell you more because i am totally in love with the current beijing, as a matter of fact, i am thinking about moving there to find a job because my in-laws has a house there and i don't have to pay rent to live in Beijing.

[Joost]

Originally posted by Ois�n:
I would put it slightly differently: A visit to the Forbidden City and a trip to the Tiananmen Square are a must because you cannot come back unable to answer the obvious Beijing questions (ie. "So how was the Forbidden City? And the Tiananmen Square?").

The places themselves are none too interesting, I feel. Basically, Tiananmen is a big square with some big buildings on each side (the kite flying is nice, though), and the Forbidden City is a long row of very similar (cynics would say monotonous) old buildings. All very beautiful, but mostly people just go there to say that they have seen these places.

You're right -- there's a sense of obligation about trips to both places. I enjoyed the Forbidden City, despite the fact it is, as you say, a long row of very similar buildings. The sheer scale of the place is impressive and they haven't yet turned it into a carnival of kitsch. And it's a good place to brush up on your Chinese history.

Fun fact: outside the Forbidden City, you can get an electronic guide -- basically a solid-state headset that recounts the history of place as you walk through it. Price if you're a Chinese (Putonghua) speaker: RMB10 (just over US$1); price if you speak English: RMB40. Technology: identical. Gotta love how upfront they are about ripping off tourists. The days of China excusing this sort of stuff with the claim that it needs the foreign exchange are well and truly over. This is opportunism at its best/worst.

I found Tiananmen interesting. It is, all told, nothing but a huge concrete area. It is bereft of vegetation and utterly uninspired. There's no attempt to appeal to the senses -- it's like a giant holding area. It's most definitely fitting of a formerly hardline communist state and is not the kind of place you'd see in "the West". With that in mind it's humbling to think of the 4 June massacre, while being spooked by the fact there's no mention of it at all. On the day I was there, the crowd was made up of international tourists, young people from Beijing, and farmers and rural workers presumably on their first trip to the capital -- hundreds of people standing around a place where nothing much happens, bar a flag-raising at around 6pm. Some were on a pilgrimage, others were there so they could say they'd been, and still others were there because that's where the bus had dropped them. The rural folk provided the personality, while the resident kite fliers added some colour.

Fun fact: vendors sell lollipops and ice creams for about 10 US cents. I'm all for experimenting with food whenever I travel, but what little flavour these things contain is impossibly bad, even for the price.

[simonjames]

My partner and I are definitely going to Beijing 2008

which is best to learn (basic understanding) Cantonese or Mandarin?

[Randman]

Cantonese is more Hong Kong. Mandarin (putonghua) for Beijing.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by Randman:
Duibuqi. Xie xie is correct. Xie xie ni then.

你不用谢

It's just slang for person or male person like dawg/dog, dude, homey, or shawdy.

Aha, thank you - I had not come across that one before (or the shawdy one either, for that matter... my knowledge of English slang is somewhat lacking)...

I've heard the same thing for a number of years. Is there any kind of environmental movement in China?

With the explosive growth of the Chinese economy I can imagine the problem only getting worse and worse. Is there any recognition about pollution or is 'growth' the only concern?

There is some concern to pollution and destruction of the environment, but unfortunately the actual efforts set in place to prevent these things are still rather minimal. Factories and other places which cause much pollution are having filters and things installed to reduce their negative impact, but it's going slowly, and China is getting more and more polluted.

Maybe he can host two dozens of MacNNers...

Why not? I'm used to hosting people by now, after all... at the moment, I'm hosting six Germans and one Chinese guy in my three-room apartment, so a dozen MacNN'ers or two shouldn't be much of a problem...

i've been to beijing a few times but the last time was about 10 years ago so i am sure it's changed a lot since.

I should think so, yes. One of the professors who work for the ECCS (the program under which I studied last year) hadn't been to Beijing since 91 or so; and the entire area where both the university and his apartment were was basically in the countryside last time he was there - there was practically nothing there but a few small houses and some fields. Nowadays, that area is known as Zhongguancun, and it's the Silicon Valley of China, filled to the brim with skyscrapers and electronic diddlydoobs everywhere.

I even experienced the change myself last night. We were going out to a bar where we'd been a week ago, a very nice bar. Only when we came to the place we were sure we'd gone wrong, 'cause we couldn't find it all of a sudden. We discovered this was because they had torn down the entire block where the bar had been in... just like that.

Beijing used to have a lot of sandstorm, so the government has built a lot of trees and plants around the city and it has more trees than Hong Kong now. It is definitely getting a lot of greener.

Definitely! And the sandstorms during spring this year were not that bad, there were hardly anything I would term a sandstorm at all, in fact.

I used to hate the local people because they are mostly rude and have no manners. It was tough getting around the city with public transportations. But if you have money to spend, travel with taxi and avoid the public transportation like buses.

Haha, manners and politeness are definitely not specialties of Beijingers, that much is true!

But on the public transportation, I couldn't disagree more. I nearly always avoid taking cabs if I can; I love taking the buses (not so much when I have to stand up the whole way, of course, but if you can get to sit down, it's very nice, I think), and I use them much more than both cabs and subways.

Fun fact: vendors sell lollipops and ice creams for about 10 US cents. I'm all for experimenting with food whenever I travel, but what little flavour these things contain is impossibly bad, even for the price.

That's Chinese ice cream. It tastes like nothing, if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, it tastes like puke or something similar.

Plus the Chinese have strange ideas concerning ice cream - they seem to think that things such as sweet pea ice cream, corn ice cream, or indeed, which I saw just the other day, vanilla/blackberry/cheese ice cream, are are highly delicious. Blech. (And yes, they really did mean cheese, I think; there was a picture of a piece of Gouda cheese on the paper of the ice cream. We did not buy it to ascertain whether or not it really did contain cheese, though.)

And lastly (after a hugely long post), as Randman said, Cantonese won't get you far in Beijing. Nobody understands it here, 'cause there are not very many people from the Guangdong/Guangxi area, which is where Cantonese is mainly spoken (apart from Hong Kong of course). Mandarin is the daily language here, with about a ton of heavy R's added after everything, as ironknee pointed out.

Okay, enough blabbering... (Remind me to sign up for one of those "How to control the endless flow of words coming from your mouth when you happen to get warmed up to your favourite topics" courses)

[Randman]

The length isn't a problem as you're having much to offer.

Is the ice cream sandwiched between two slices of white bread? And does durian ice cream make it there? That's something to avoid (though my g/f loves durian).

[MallyMal]

Cool, cool, so tell me about manners. What could an American "cat"(for Oisin)like myself do, by mistake, that would piss off a local?

[Randman]

I can't speak for most Beijingers, but from my experiences in China, they'd probably be very polite to your face and then just comment about what a typical poor mannered, arrogant, overweight ang moh you were. And maybe they'd smile and say "tamade".

Better to take the different route and try to impress them a little. An American who tries and speaks the language, even if just to say thanks or please or to call the waitress "xiao jie" will get far better service (and price) from most Chinese.

And if that doesn't suffice. Ask yourself what a Chinese (or another nationality of ) visitor could do in your hometown to piss you off.

[Oisín]

I have seen the sandwich ice cream, though only a few times. The durian ice cream is quite common, and I don't think it's all that bad... it's not particularly good, but it's a lot better than green pea ice cream...

Originally posted by Randman:
Better to take the different route and try to impress them a little. An American who tries and speaks the language, even if just to say thanks or please or to call the waitress "xiao jie" will get far better service (and price) from most Chinese.

Actually, xiaojie (小姐 ) isn't very polite anymore. Since some time in the 90's, it's been rather viewed upon as a sexist term (it literally means "miss" or "ms." - xiao means small, jie means (older) sister), and the gender-neutral term fuwuyuan (服务员 ) is used 99% of the time, though xiansheng (先生, "mister, sir") can also be used for men, and xiaojie is generally accepted if the waitress is very young.

One of my old classmates lived for a year in Shanghai before starting to study Chinese. Down there, he quickly picked up that xiaojie was what you called out to person waiting on you. Unfortunately, he failed to grasp that it was only to be used on female waiters, and so he got a few odd looks from slightly insulted male waiters who had just been adressed as "miss". Fuwuyuan is definitely safer.

Besides that, you are absolutely 100% right that even a tiny bit of Chinese will get you far, especially if your pronunciation is good (if you manage to get all the tones right as well, they practically throw themselves at you and kiss your feet). Be warned, however, that many Chinese people have a certain "all-or-nothing" attitude towards their own language; say three words in faltering Chinese, and they will henceforth address you in rapid, often highly accented, Mandarin, as though you yourself were a native speaker of the language.

[wataru]

Originally posted by Ois�n:
Actually, xiaojie (小姐 ) isn't very polite anymore.

My Chinese teacher said that 美女 is a good alternative to 小姐, because the latter implies prostitution. When I told my (Chinese) girlfriend, she nearly bust a gut, saying that if anything 美女 is worse. What do you think? 美女 seems more than a bit suspicious to me, but I have no idea which is worse.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by wataru:
My Chinese teacher said that 美女 is a good alternative to 小姐, because the latter implies prostitution. When I told my (Chinese) girlfriend, she nearly bust a gut, saying that if anything 美女 is worse. What do you think? 美女 seems more than a bit suspicious to me, but I have no idea which is worse.

Well... xiaojie can imply prostitution, but doesn't necessarily, only if you really want it to...

Mein�, on the other hand, just sounds extremely corny and, well, something that would cause very odd looks! "Excuse me, beautiful woman, may I have some napkins, please?"

No, I'd definitely say xiaojie is better than mein� - but fuwuyuan is still better, 'cause you can use it for both genders, and practically anyone who works in any place that has anything to do with providing some sort of service (if, for instance, you address the check-out lady in the supermarket as xiaojie, she would most likely be quite offended, but fuwuyuan works fine).

[MallyMal]

OK, so what's the deal on the police force?

[Oisín]

They're more visible than I'm used to from Denmark (but then again, back home they're completely invisible, so that's not saying much), but it's not like it's a police state here. There are these cute little guards everywhere, but from my experience they have no practical function whatsoever, apart from opening and closing entrance gates/doors and running around playing with each other (they tend to be about 12 or so)...

[simonjames]

Oisin - what part of DK are you from? I have family near Randers

[Oisín]

Originally posted by simonjames:
Oisin - what part of DK are you from? I have family near Randers

I have some family up in that area (well, sort of - they're from Thyholm and Mors mostly), but I'm from Kalundborg (on Zealand) and Copenhagen myself...

[Randman]

It's not Beijing, but had an interesting experience with a Chinese soldier.
A few years ago, took a trip to Sichuan province and spent a couple of days in Chengdu. China had just won some match and qualified for the World Cup and there was a huge celebration. In the main square (under a giant statue of Mao), people were just getting out of their cars and a sudden parade started up. Red flags were everywhere and fireworks were even going off.
All of a sudden, a very impressive group of soldiers in anti-riot gear appeared. The celebration seemed pretty peaceful but I was more impressed with the soldiers.
I got out of the taxi and was planning on taking some photos. Thought the soldiers under the Mao statue watching soccer-mad citizens would make a good photo.
One of the soldiers didn't think so and pointed his machine gun at me and said: No photos.
If I had a smaller camera, I would have continued, but at the time, I just had my camcorder so I let it run as casually as possible.
Being an American journalist, I didn't push the point. And to be fair, the soldier did say thank you in a polite tone when I put the camera down.
It was an interesting experience (and just a month after 9/11 so I think I was a touch more jittery than normal).