[Dr.Michael]

Hello,

my 20 inch cinema display has arrived some days ago. I connected it to my 12 inch Powerbook (1GHz, 768 RAM, cpu speed is set to automatic) and now the thing gets significantly hotter than before. The fan is running all the time and ruins my nerves. The fan rarely switches on without the cinema display.

I placed the powerbook on top of two books in order to check if improved airflow around the bottom of the case brings down the temperature. No great result with this setup. So the money for an iCurve seems not to be a good investment.

Has anyone with a similar setup found a good solution to avoid the permanent fan noise?

Second question:
My Ti500 could be switched on with an external usb keyboard (I use one from an old G4). This does not work with the AL12. The Powerbook does not even start with the power switch of the cinema display although apple recommends to use only the display power control.
Is there a firmware hack/patch that brings usb power control to life again?

Thanks for your help,

Michael

[effgee]

Hmm - mine (1 GHz, 768 RAM) never comes on when hooked up to an external monitor. Unless I play games etc., of course ... do you leave the book closed? If you do, open it that should help. If you don't want the book's screen to come on, leave it closed until it's done booting and then open it.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally posted by effgee:
... do you leave the book closed? If you do, open it that should help.

I would have liked to run it closed. But it gets too hot. So I openend it after wakeup.

Average measured with temperature monitor is 45 degrees without cinema display and standing flat on the desk. 53 degrees with cinema display and a 3 centimeters lifted front side, 6 centimeters backside. Definitely the best conditions for air circulation. Both normal coding, compiling etc.

If it goes on like this, the cinema display has to go back to the dealer.
F...

[Doug78]

I'm having the same extact trouble with the same exact machine (also with 768mb) except I have a 17" Apple LCD. Mine is on an iCurve but it doesn't seem to help much. The fan will come on even if I'm just using iTunes.. but it really starts to go when I am using Photoshop and Illustrator. I've tried running it with the screen up, and down, and it seems to make no difference. I think the external display must put alot of work on the PB's video card. If I run the Powerbook with no external display it seems to run cooler, althought I actually haven't taken measurements. I need to keep this laptop, but using it for hours at a time doing possibly intensive work makes me nervous.

My expensive solution.. I have a G5 on the way. The heat wasn't the only issue that pushed me to buy a tower, but the uncertainty that the laptop will continue to perform at its best worries me.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally posted by Doug78:

My expensive solution.. I have a G5 on the way. The heat wasn't the only issue that pushed me to buy a tower, but the uncertainty that the laptop will continue to perform at its best worries me.

Thanks for your confirmation that the problem is not an exception.

The lifetime of the fans can be ok. It is limited but the best quality fans (Papst) have specs that say something around 14000 hours (1.5 years) nonstop (at 60 degrees C, more at lower temps). That means 4.5 years of normal use. Then the bearings are worn out (that does not exclude that some run forever).
But since Apple tries to sell cheaper powerbooks you never know if they really use highest quality fans.

What I find more annoying is the noise.

[macintologist]

The problem is NOT the Cinema Displays. It is Apple's. If you upgraded to 10.3.2, the fan settings were changed so that it would come on at a MUCH lower temperature 52 rather than 58. It IS so damn annoying and I really hope Apple at least gives us an option in a prefpane for |more noise <-----> more heat|
and lets us pick.

I would like to revert to 10.3.1 but it's a hassle. Try downloading SilentNight
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/21939
It's supposed to fix the fan problem.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally posted by macintologist:
The problem is NOT the Cinema Displays. It is Apple's. If you upgraded to 10.3.2, the fan settings were changed so that it would come on at a MUCH lower temperature 52 rather than 58. It IS so damn annoying and I really hope Apple at least gives us an option in a prefpane for |more noise <-----> more heat|
and lets us pick.

I would like to revert to 10.3.1 but it's a hassle. Try downloading SilentNight
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/21939
It's supposed to fix the fan problem.

I solved the problem for me: I gave back the Cinema display.

But, as far as I see it, your solution with the fan hack is not healthy. 60 degrees is already dangerous for electronics and reduces lifetime significantly.

I agree that its apples fault. But the fault is not introduced with os 10.3.2, it has been made with the design of the Rev. A Powerbook. It simply runs too hot and the heat sink capabilities are not sufficient.

This is better with Rev B (which I have).

But I trust the apple ingeneers. If they say 58 degrees is too hot than its too hot. That matches with my experience. If your Powerbook runs at 58 degrees while you are doing normal tasks, than the hardware has been designed badly. You only make things worse, if you prevent fan cooling.

Its not the first Rev A Powerbook that has really bad faults.

Michael

[valeski]

I have a 12" PB as well, and I hooked up a new 20" Aluminum Cinema display I just bought the other day. My fan won't stop spinning at full speed. Needless to say it's loud.

I'd be willing to try the "Silent Night" hack, but versiontracker's links to the download are dead.

Unfortunately, this will likely lead to me returning the display to Apple; I can't live with this fan noise, that's for sure.

Bummer.

[teknopimp]

Originally Posted by valeski

Unfortunately, this will likely lead to me returning the display to Apple; I can't live with this fan noise, that's for sure.

fools! just crank up the tunes or otherwise learn to live with the 'noise'. and stop your

[klamyfeat]

Does anyone have a Rev C or Rev D 12" PB hooked up to a 20" ACD? Does the Rev D 12" PB still have trouble?

I was thinking about getting the 12" PB and the 20" ACD but if the the 12" PB can't easily handle powering the 20" ACD, maybe I"ll just get the 15" and no ACD.

[valeski]

How do I determine which rev I have?

[Ciber]

Originally Posted by klamyfeat

Does anyone have a Rev C or Rev D 12" PB hooked up to a 20" ACD? Does the Rev D 12" PB still have trouble?

I was thinking about getting the 12" PB and the 20" ACD but if the the 12" PB can't easily handle powering the 20" ACD, maybe I"ll just get the 15" and no ACD.

I have a 12" Rev C and i got a 20" today and the fan has not stopped, it's driving me insane.

[david33]

I have a rev. C 12" PB and a 20" ACD and the fan runs all the time, and the PB is on an icurve. It doesn't bother me a bit, though. I just crank up iTunes. How can anyone give up the sweetness of the 1680x1050 resolution, especially coming from the 12" PB's crappy 1024x768 resolution?!?! I love my ACD and would sooner give up my PB than give up the display.

[valeski]

For those wondering, it doesn't appear as though the graphics chipset/controller can be upgraded on the powerbooks:

See http://www.everymac.com/systems/appl...expansion.html for more info.

[osxisfun]

no.

[hubertusbreuer]

I also would be interested in anybody's experience with a Rev D Powerbook 12 and a 20 inch cinema display. I plan to buy one, but if the fan is on all the time...

[iREZ]

i have the Rev B 12" as well and get the fan noise as well... but when i could sacrafice performance, i just set energy saver to better battery settings reducing the processor speed and my fan's hardly ever come on.

[wunderkind]

12" rev. D PB on iLap +17" display = fan runs all the time at probably full speed.

[belldandy]

Your heat problem is consistent with 15" powerbook users as well. My 1.25Ghz 15" pb runs at 63.2 degree C all the time with a 20" LCD external display. I am running it in clamshell mode. I have long suspected the higher temperature is due from the onboard graphic die. Compared to to the usual 12"/15" LCD on the powerbook, an external 20" has much more pixels for the graphic card to push through. Thus more work for the graphic chip and the machine gets higher. My powerbook already sits on a huge alumnium stand that has a high surface area. I have been running the setup for about half a year. Nothing is wrong so far. In case, anything happens, my Apple Care would cover me and I do look forward they bump me for a newer pb =D hehe

[Edited]
- Fan is on whenever it goes over 62.5 degree C, turns off at 59.5 degree C
- Highest performance setting on Energy Saver
- CPU utilization is around 80% most of the time. <-- perhaps i should stop changing wallpaper every 5 sec, rotating 100+ high resolution wallpaper =D

[mjames]

I have a 15" PB with a 20" cinema display and notice the fans come on a little more, but I don't mind. I only hear them if the room is silent, and rarely is with my TV and sound system. I say the more cooling fans, the better.

[Simon]

I had a 12" 1GHz with a 20" ACD -> fan always on and loud
I now have a 15" 1.67 GHz with the same 20" ACD -> fan hardly ever on -> very quiet

If you have a 12" running with a large external screen and can't stand the noise, the only real alternative is to get a 15" instead.

[hubertusbreuer]

How about running a 12 inch 1.5GHz powerbook with the 20 cinima display with energy savings turned on? Given what IRez said above today, that actually might do the trick.

[valeski]

Originally Posted by Simon

If you have a 12" running with a large external screen and can't stand the noise, the only real alternative is to get a 15" instead.

Another, albeit poor, solution is to take the dramatic step of externally cooling the 12". I moved my 12" to the floor under my desk, propped it open so it's standing like a tent (sort of looks like this; /\), and put a small, relatively quiet, AC powered desk fan on one end of the "tent". The external fan dropped the GPU temp by 20 degress F, and the 12" fan is off. Now I just have to listen to the desk fan, which is _much_ more quiet than the 12"'s fan. It's an ugly solution, but, I do get to keep my 20" and keep my 12" PB.

I travel a lot, so anything bigger than a 12" won't work for me.

A friend of mine has a 15" PB (which he bought a month ago) and the 20" ACD (aluminum); he reports no difference between fan noise whether connected to the ACD or not. Yet another confirmation that the 15" PB is fine.

How annoying!

[valeski]

Originally Posted by hubertusbreuer

How about running a 12 inch 1.5GHz powerbook with the 20 cinima display with energy savings turned on? Given what IRez said above today, that actually might do the trick.

I'd be suprised if this actually worked. Energy settings affect _CPU_ usage/heat, not GPU, and the GPU is the culprit in this situation.

[wunderkind]

Originally Posted by hubertusbreuer

How about running a 12 inch 1.5GHz powerbook with the 20 cinima display with energy savings turned on? Given what IRez said above today, that actually might do the trick.

Does not make any difference (12" rev. D + 17" display) - mirroring or spanning.

[hubertusbreuer]

Ok, so energy savings does not work. How about getting a Targus Notebook Chill Mat - with two fans? That way you might cool the notebook sufficiently. If this worked, you still would have the fan noise, but at least the chill mat is rather cheap and dispensible - and you would not stress your precious 12" powerbook machine.

[Cheetah223]

I'm curious if the Rev. D 15's have this problem. I'm planning to get a 15" this summer, and a 20" LCD to go with it...If the fans are on all the time I may have to reconsider the LCD..

[osxisfun]

cheetah.

It was super hot yesterday here and i used my new alu 15" (closelid mode & laptop mode) from 6:30 am to 10:30 pm. (long day) and i was doing hard core shite all day long including backing up 60k files to firewire drive which eats the CPU

and towards 9pm i compiled a big time app and the fans finally kicked into loud mode.

and i barely heard them.

ask simon. i am a fan nut and i want a quiet machine. this new PB is the quietest i have owned in years.

even in full blast mode.

and for the record i sold my PB 667 a couple of years ago becuase of loud fans. I do think the fans on the 12" are much louder than the 15" but i do not have 1st hand kowledge on that. just what i have read here.

ps: my pb was hooked up to a 20" lcd about half the time yesterday. but during a normal day its hooked up all day to an apple 20 lcd and good lord my place is so quiet.

so nice....

[Simon]

Originally Posted by osxisfun

ask simon. i am a fan nut and i want a quiet machine. this new PB is the quietest i have owned in years.

I can only confirm. My current 1.67GHz PowerBook is the most quiet metallic (Ti & Al) PowerBook I have ever seen. Idle, it runs w/o any fan motion when an external screen is attached (not like the 12") and even when you push it so that the fans come on, it remains quiet. The fans are indeed much less annoying than on other PowerBooks. To my knowledge, no other 1.67GHz owner here has disagreed with this opinion. I'd really give it a thought if you want a quiet PowerBook.

[Cheetah223]

Hmm...That probably settles it then. Only problem now is money

[hubertusbreuer]

The question remains what is the best solution once you have a 12 inch powerbook and you have an external screen or you think at least about getting one, like I do. Concerning the Targus Chill Mat, that I mentioned above, I also read that, even though its made of cheap plastic, its two fans are considerable more quite than the Powerbook's internal ones. But I cannot tell for sure. Has anyone experience with this setup?

[macintologist]

How about getting an iBreeze for your PB 12"?

[Simon]

How about moving to Greenland?

j/k

[hubertusbreuer]

I was just looking at flights to Greenland the on Friday and it is rather tricky to get there from the US. Concerning ibreeze vs. Targus Chill Pad - whatever cools better. I think looks are not that important in this case. I did not find any direct comparisons though.

[klamyfeat]

Would using the iBreeze or Antec notebook cooler eliminate the need for the PB fan to kick on? I've read some impressive reports about the Antec notebook cooler lowering the internal temp of notebooks significantly.

I've personally seen/heard the Antec notebook cooler in action and it's very quiet. I'm still waiting until after the WWDC to see if the 12" PB gets a video card upgrade or price drop but I'll still get the 12" PB w/20" ACD combo even if neither happens.

[sharkie]

Hi all! I'm a newbie to this board, so this is my first post!

Here's my setup: PB 12 (rev D, 1.25 gig ram, 100 gb hd, apple wireless keyboard and mouse) , Dell 20inch LCD. I've noticed that when I plug in the usb cable from the dell monitor to the PB, the fans kick in right away and start whining. I've tested this several times with the 12 screen on, off, open, closed. When I have no usb devices plugged in, the fans are quiet and hardly noticeable when running basic apps like safari, mail, texshop, office...

Anyways good luck and I hope this helps.

[irus]

Can anyone else with Rev D PB 12 confirm that the fans are quiet(er) when external display and no USB devices are used?

[klamyfeat]

Irus,

I bought a 12" Rev D PB a week ago but I'm still waiting for my 20" ACD to arrive. I'll give everyone an update once I hook the ACD.

[valeski]

I wound up with the LapCool2 to externally cool my PB 12". It's not as quiet as I'd like, but on the fan's lowest setting, it keeps my PB's fan quiet enough to make me happy.

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556060581.html

I still can't believe I had to jump through this hoop.

[klamyfeat]

Hi everyone,

I received my 20" ACD today and I briefly connected the monitor to my 12" Rev D combodrive PB and the fan didn't kick on at all. I'll give everyone a more through update after I put some time in with my new display but it's off to a good start.

[hubertusbreuer]

Yes, let us know. I am certainly very curious to hear what you have to say.

[hakstooy]

I have a 20" ACD at home and a 2005FPW at work and my Rev.C 12" fan runs non-stop at home w/ the ACD, even when its idle, and the fan hardly ever comes on at work when connected to the 2005FPW.

Is it the FireWire hook-up or something? Its the only difference I can think of between the 2 20" monitors.

It weirds me out, but I guess its sort of comforting to know I'm not the only one. Still, you'd think Apple hardware would play well together.

[klamyfeat]

I have my 12" PB Rev D (Tiger) hooked up to my 20" ACD and I don't hear a thing from where I'm sitting.

If I place my ear directly on to the PB surface, I do hear something running, maybe the fan? If it is the fan, it is VERY quiet. To me, there is absolutely no noise from my PB and I'm pleasently surprised. I purchased an Antec laptop stand I'm thinking about returning it because I don't think the PB is overheating or stressed one bit.

Personally, I cannot hear any noise coming from my PB. If things change, I'll let you know. I am 100% happy with my purchase.

Oh ya, the 20" ACD is beautiful. The 20" ACD really makes the 12" PB a great desktop and mobile solution.

[Simon]

hakstooy, you're definitely not the only one.

My 12" rev B's fan would come on as soon as it was attached to my 20" ACD at home. It would never come on when I attached it to my Samsung 21" TFT at my office. I checked ambient temperatures and they were equal. Load was equal. At the time, the only difference I could find, was that the 20 ACD was a widescreen 1680x1050 and the Samsung was standard 4:3 at 1600x1200. I never understood why the PowerBook ran hotter with the ACD attached.

[Yeast]

Klamyfeat. That is great news. The 12 inch/20 inch combo might be back in business for my August purchase.

Originally Posted by klamyfeat

I have my 12" PB Rev D (Tiger) hooked up to my 20" ACD and I don't hear a thing from where I'm sitting.

If I place my ear directly on to the PB surface, I do hear something running, maybe the fan? If it is the fan, it is VERY quiet. To me, there is absolutely no noise from my PB and I'm pleasently surprised. I purchased an Antec laptop stand I'm thinking about returning it because I don't think the PB is overheating or stressed one bit.

Personally, I cannot hear any noise coming from my PB. If things change, I'll let you know. I am 100% happy with my purchase.

Oh ya, the 20" ACD is beautiful. The 20" ACD really makes the 12" PB a great desktop and mobile solution.

[hakstooy]

Hmm, this be some weirdness Simon. But, I guess as long as the temp isn't in dangerous territory, its not that bad. But all the humming is annoying.

But it seems they fixed it with the Rev. D, so that's cool.

Ahh well, guess I better just crank up the tunes.

[sevendhappy]

I got a 12" Pb, and recently just got the new Dell 2405FPW. The fan is on all the time and is a little noisy, the noise isn't as unbearable as my old PC that ran 3 92mm fans, but is it bad for the laptop to have the fan running constantly? I was told some time ago that computers fans were meant to be running (if they need to be), just like how it doesn't hurt your computer overall to leave it on all the time. Of course this Pb is my first laptop, so I'm not sure if what applies to desktop internals (ie. fans), applies to laptops the same way. I figured if the 12" Pb can support an external resolution up to 2048 x 1536 (my dell runs at 1920x1200) , surely Apple must have done their homework, and anticipated that the fan will be in constant use.

Am I making any sense? LOL

[SassyPants]

how much do the external laptop fans help?
for example, the type that sits under the Powerbook

http://www.pctoys.com/noco.html

any ideas? thoughts?

[andgarden]

well, I've found that the Podium CoolPad makes my AL 15in run much cooler, and it doesn't add an extra fan.

[X-Ray]

My PB just gets warm when hooked up to my 20" display and using a Targus coolpad. sure, it's an extra fan, but barely noticeable. Highly recommended.