What are peoples experience dealing with the Apple BTO Store versus Mail Order sellers like Mac Mall, Small Dog, etc. The 3rd party sellers offer incentives like more RAM, free shipping, cash rebates, but are you better off going right to the "horses mouth" and pay full price? Input is appreciated.

Mike

[ZooTV]

I've always ordered from the Apple Store, but this time I BTO'd at SmallDog, the only place other then Apple that I know of that will BTO. I pay no tax here (CT), the Apple Store charges tax in all 50 states. I believe that the only incentive to buy from the Apple Store is that buying direct might get you your shipment sooner.

[pdot]

I bought stuff from both MacWarehouse and Outpost before and they both did fine in terms of product delivery and quality. I usually just look for the best price (after S/H and tax) as long as it is from a reputable source. Bizrate and C/net gives dependable (so far) ratings on the online stores. Oh, as far as quality is concerned, big names like MacWarehouse and Outpost get their products from Apple anyway (I think) so it's pretty much all the same. It's the little stores that just pop up that I'm more cautious of.

I've never made a "large" purchase ie a complete sysyem over the wire but I've always been impressed with Smalldog for the few times I've picked up goods from them. Courteous knowledgeable people on the phone, quick pickup on the call, never any problems with shipping. Always willin gto help with technical questions (how to open an older powerbook for upgrades, etc).

I usually buy my Macs from MicroWarehouse (I have a corporate rep there that I use for business). The price can be a little negotiable (I can lower it enough so the shipping is free most of the time), there's no tax shipping to MA, and they tend to have better in-stock availability than the Apple Store or even Mac specialist resellers. No BTO, though.

I just bought a new DV+ for my wife - ComputerTown and CompUSA didn't have any yet. MicroWarehouse had about 700.

-Josh

It's impossible to order from the Apple store (even the UK version) if you live in Ireland.

Regards,
Richard Bannister http://www.bannister.org/ http://www.clubmac.ie/

[bojangles]

I got my beige G3 thru MacZone and have never had any problems. He was apparently struck by lightning (we didn�t see it happen, but we think he was) two months later, and I was able to get him fixed (under warranty) without any problem. However, I later felt that I had been ripped off on the price. Quite a few other places had much better deals.

Side note: I've recently started shopping mySimon.com. They'll give you the best prices on just about anything, along with user ratings for each store.

[nemanirc]

I have bought most of my Mac hardware and software almost exclusively from the catalogs and their associated web sites. They usually have great deals (like an extra 64 MB of RAM when I bought my G3 B&W a year and a half ago) or instant rebates when a product has been in the channel a while. I have never bought anything BTO, and might consider purchasing from Apple if I had such a need. On the other hand, I usually buy a less expensive pro model and add to it over time as my needs require (adding a Zip drive, extra RAM, modem, 30 GB hard drive, etc.).

Hi,

How can you BTO at Small Dogs <http://www.smalldog.com/>?
I have not found any links on their site to BTO a system.

Thanks in advance.

Good evening,
I'm sorry to say I have never bought direct from Apple. I have always bought from online sources; Smalldog.com/Bottomonline.com/Outpost.com. Has the gentleman above their courtous and promt. Any problems; go direct.

------------------
A. John Batsford.
Long Distance StartA.

[rgruber]

I'd be curious about Small Dog's BTO as well. I'd love to get a new G4 but I'd really want a second video card, a scsi card and more RAM and it seems like the Apple Store is the only way to go. Can you do this elsewhere?

I need to mention however, APPLE STORE FOR EDUCATION. I'm twenty two and in my last semester and the 500 I saved on my G4 made it possible. End of story. I am so glad that Apple has this service and a long history of supporting education. Apple's discounts and Macromedia's discounts (I get them from http://creationengine.com) has made it possible for me to leave school on my own machine with my own software, a huge blessing and advantage.

Neil

solecism.net

Originally posted by ZooTV:
I've always ordered from the Apple Store, but this time I BTO'd at SmallDog, the only place other then Apple that I know of that will BTO. I pay no tax here (CT), the Apple Store charges tax in all 50 states. I believe that the only incentive to buy from the Apple Store is that buying direct might get you your shipment sooner.

Everyone seems to think that stores "charge" sales tax. Sales tax is "collected" by a store on behalf of your state, and county governments. If a store doesn't collect it for your state, you must still pay it on your state income tax return.

I bought a lime iMac DV from ValueAmerica back in March. They put together a package, with UMAX scanner and Epson 740i printer for $1500, with "$200" from three rebates. I got the rebate from Epson ($50) and ValueAmerica ($100), but the UMAX rebate is still pending ($50). Then I added a USB hub, usb Zip 250, FireWire CD-RW from various vendors. All via the web. Happy so far...

>>Everyone seems to think that Everyone >>seems to think that stores "charge" sales >>tax. Sales tax is "collected" by a store >>on behalf of your state, and county >>governments. If a store doesn't collect it >>for your state, you must still pay it on >>your state income tax return.

The last part of that paragraph is simply untrue. You don't have to pay "missed" sales tax on your income tax return; these are two very different things. If Macwarehouse is located in MI, say, and I live in PA, then Macwarehouse is only required by MI to collect sales tax from MI residents; since I'm in PA, I would pay no sales tax to Macwarehouse, MI, or PA--I'm completely, legally, off the hook. The only exception to this rule is California. They require retailers to collect sales tax on all purchases, regardless of the location of the purchaser; since Apple is in California, they must (and do) always collect sales tax.

I would prefer order from a reseller. The service of the Applestore in Europe is "near to zero".
I have ordered a PowerBook 400 BTO and they missed the type of keyboard and size of hard drive.
I told to send a technician to change this items. They said NO and said they would get by PowerBook and send me a new one. Problem: they made 3 months to get the bad PowerBook and never send me the other ones. I had to request legal action to get my money back after 4 months....

[MacOS761]

Yeah, the Education area of the Apple Store is great... saved a chunk on my G4. For software, I would suggest adwonline.com. I have never bought anything there, but their prices are about 1/3 of the prices elsewhere -- for students and educators only, of course. I think you have to actually prove your "studenthood" with a photocopied ID, but it'd be worth it to get Director for $350!

Originally posted by pwrst2:
>>Everyone seems to think that Everyone >>seems to think that stores "charge" sales >>tax. Sales tax is "collected" by a store >>on behalf of your state, and county >>governments. If a store doesn't collect it >>for your state, you must still pay it on >>your state income tax return.

The last part of that paragraph is simply untrue. You don't have to pay "missed" sales tax on your income tax return; these are two very different things. If Macwarehouse is located in MI, say, and I live in PA, then Macwarehouse is only required by MI to collect sales tax from MI residents; since I'm in PA, I would pay no sales tax to Macwarehouse, MI, or PA--I'm completely, legally, off the hook. The only exception to this rule is California. They require retailers to collect sales tax on all purchases, regardless of the location of the purchaser; since Apple is in California, they must (and do) always collect sales tax.

I believe that you will find that most states that have sales taxes, probably including Pennsylvania, have a "use tax" in addition to their sales tax. The function of a use tax is to impose a tax, equivalent to the sales tax, on transactions where there is an out-of-state seller and an in-state buyer. The purpose of a use tax is to avoid loss of sales tax revenue. The tax is payable by the buyer. It is probably not collected in the huge majority of eligible transactions, but it's still there.

I can provide you with one strong case against buying an Apple computer from 3rd party catalog resellers.

I once purchased an iMac from such a retailer. I was tempted by their special offer, a free software package. The unit had video problems on arrival. I contacted the vendor and they explained to me that they would only offer RMA (merchandise returns) on DOA (completely dead on arrival) systems. I escalated the issue by two levels of management with no change in response. They explained to me that Apple only accepts a very limited (< 1% at the time) number of returns. Therefore, this 3rd party reseller limited themselves to only exchanging DOA systems. I would have to have the system repaired at Apple's expense . I then spoke to Apple. They explained to me that they would only accept returns on products they sell directly. Since the 3rd party reseller technically purchased and owned the computer, it was their right to determine the exchange criteria. However, during my discussions with Apple, they confirmed that had I bought the unit directly from them, they would have replaced the unit immediately. Apple did agree to have the unit repaired at their expense without hesistation .

So, I had the iMac repaired by an top-tier Apple Certified dealer. The system came home with more problems than when it went in for repairs . Again, the 3rd party would not exchange the unit. Eventually Apple stepped in and replaced the unit (thanks, Apple ). However, I wouldn't wish that 2 month (computerless) ordeal on anyone. If you choose a 3rd party reseller, be very aware of their exchange criteria.

PS I learned that Sears offers a 60 day, no-questions-asked return policy on all of their computers . I believe this policy is even better than that offered by Apple. They also match printed ad prices from other retail stores. For these two comforting reasons, I purchased my next iMac from Sears. A competitor was having an outstanding sale in a city 150 miles away. I went to the book store and purchased a paper for that city. The paper contained the ad price which Sears matched without arguement. You may want to investigate Sears as another alternative.

[Bartman]

Hi guys,

You are so lucky in the US that you get to choose from a wide variety of stores. Here in Kuwait, we have only one Apple dealer and he sells overpriced Macs. An iBook costs about $2400 ?! PowerBooks start at $3000. Apple also prohibits any US dealer (MacMall, MacWarehouse, etc) to ship Apple products oustside the states. Same thing with UK dealers. I just want to let Apple know that we need a break on Mac prices here.
Can you tell me how to contact Apple ?

Thank you,
"Enjoy you cheap Macs".

[robjmurphy]

This thread is uncannily the sort of thing I've just been going thru.
I ordered a PowerBook from the AppleStore recently but ended up cancelling the order and ordering from Outpost.com instead. & here's why:
Firstly I was under the impression that Apple Loans were only redeemable at the Apple Store. Now that they're with MBNA this doesn't seem to be the case.
Secondly I made the stoopid stoopid mistake or ordering my basically stock config with an Airport card. I also added a second Airport card (for my iMac) so that I could set up an Airport network. The Apple Store showed an estimated 1 day ship for the Airport card & 5 days for the 'Book. Very reasonable I thought. I placed the order. Later accidentally playing around with the configurator (and what is it with their pricing on extra RAM & hard drives!) I realized that if I'd've ordered the stock config & 2 Airport cards separately the est ship on the 'Book would also have been a day! But too late now. So I waited & watched the progress on the web site. After nearly two weeks had passed & the order was still 'In Assembly' & the Store reps were quoting me a further 10-14 days I decided enough was enough. I cancelled the order and went to Outpost.com. They had a 'Book & 2 Airport cards in stock for overnight delivery. Plus I don't pay sales tax with Outpost saving nearly $200. & on top of that I get a free 128MB RAM & a bag too!
As much as I wanted to put the business directly with Apple they really have to address certain issues with the store to beat the likes of the most excellent Outpost.com.

I went to check on the so-called "BTO" option at Small Dog after reading some of the comments by other readers that Small Dog offered this. I might be wrong, but it seems to me that Small Dog does not offer a true BTO option, but they do list a few G4 DP systems that have been built to order and they are reselling. However, it doesn''t seem that you can customize this at all. You only have the BTO option that they have availabale.
If this is wrong, someone should please correct this, because this option, if truly available would be greatly beneficial to Mac users.
My own experiences with the Apple store (I've ordered from them twice) is that it oftens takes longer for you to recieve your shipments and costs significantly more (taxes and shipping) than most resellers.
On the plus side, I don't always trust the free memory deals resellers offer. What kind of memory is it? At least ordering thru Apple you can be sure the memory is tested and will work (mostly). Also, let's not forget about the Apple loan plan, which, although you end up paying more over the long haul, at least let's you space out payments, rather than dropping a chunk of cash right up front. Paying off a credit card is not quite the same as just paying off a loan with some interest. The latter is looked upon better by credit companies.

BTO from Small Dog
The only way to get a BTO from Small Dog is that you "MUST" go to their store location in "PERSON" and buy an "APPLE" product. They will give you a password. Then no matter where you are you can log onto their web site and order an APPLE product. They are not allowed to sell APPLE products from their web site unless you have a password via the method listed above. BUMMER

I think it is best to buy from a local dealer. They give excellent sevice and advice. The people in these stores usaually know Mac's and stay up-to-date with solutions. The dealer in Cedar Falls, IA has an excellent reputation for service and advice.

Originally posted by StephenRea:
Everyone seems to think that stores "charge" sales tax. Sales tax is "collected" by a store on behalf of your state, and county governments. If a store doesn't collect it for your state, you must still pay it on your state income tax return.

yes, but online retailers don't need to collect sales tax unless you are in the same state. Hence the debate on taxation of Internet commerce in order to recover the states' lost revenues.

[birdman]

All I can say is I had a rather unpleasant experience with MacMall in December of 1999. I won't go into all the details (unless you want them), but basically the "free" RAM was not quite so free. When I ordered my iMac DV via macmall.com, I was quoted a certain price as my final total, and I entered my credit card number thusly. I even printed out that page and the "Order Detail" page that followed. A few hours later, I checked on my order at the website, and suddenly it was $118 more (without them telling me)! This had something to do with the "free" RAM, but apparently there was nothing MacMall would do about it, so I canceled my order and went with ClubMac -- which, by the way, had much friendlier sales representatives. With ClubMac, I didn't get the extra RAM, but I did get a free floppy drive.

And all this because those were the only two resellers that had the mouse I wanted. Shame on me for not wanting a hockey-puck mouse.

-birdman

I have purchased two iBooks and three iMacs at my local Sears. Same price as the Apple store and carry it home right away. I'd be happy to support a local Apple dealer, but not aware of one within 100 miles. The staff at most superstores don't know anything and tend to be downright arrogant with Mac buyers. The Sears guys aren't experts by a long shot, but they are friendly & genuinely appreciate my business. Always a good experience for me.

Originally posted by pwrst2:
>>Everyone seems to think that Everyone >>seems to think that stores "charge" sales >>tax. Sales tax is "collected" by a store >>on behalf of your state, and county >>governments. If a store doesn't collect it >>for your state, you must still pay it on >>your state income tax return.

The last part of that paragraph is simply untrue. You don't have to pay "missed" sales tax on your income tax return; these are two very different things. If Macwarehouse is located in MI, say, and I live in PA, then Macwarehouse is only required by MI to collect sales tax from MI residents; since I'm in PA, I would pay no sales tax to Macwarehouse, MI, or PA--I'm completely, legally, off the hook. The only exception to this rule is California. They require retailers to collect sales tax on all purchases, regardless of the location of the purchaser; since Apple is in California, they must (and do) always collect sales tax.

You are wrong and the first poster is right.

As a PA resident you ARE required BY LAW to pay the sales tax on your purchases. Of course, if you fail to decalare and pay it on your state income tax return, you will *probably* get away with it, but you are still in violation of PA laws.

It is not just "Sales" tax, it is "Sales and Use Tax" and you are USING it in PA even if you bought it in MI.

I like the BTO capabilities of the AppleStore, but Apple simply price gouges on things like RAM. I bought a 256 MB chip of PC100 RAM for $200 at www.macsolutions.com

It came with a lifetime warranty, and works great. This Same amount of PC100 RAM BTO from the AppleStore will run you $600 each (2 DIMMS coms $600 more than 1, 3 cost $1200 more).

The situation is similar for hard drives.

My recomendation is to go ahead and buy AppleStore and order the least amount of RAM possible (and smallest hard drive too) and then install them yourself. You can save $1000 on a machine with a 40 GB HD and 768 RAM.

However, the AppleStore does offer good service (even if at extravagant cost, and I find you get the same price gouging on RAM and hard drives from MacWarehouse, MacMall, and Zones.com

[that guy]

I just bought a 500 Mhz iMac from the apple store. It got here last week but had a problem with the screen right out of the box. Unfortunately, Apple does not have a real return policy like outpost.com, and charges sales tax and shipping.

Granted, I added 64 megs of ram, but I could have ordered that from outpost.com. I know they aren't shipping iMacs yet, but they will be at the end of this week or early next week.

Since I have to wait for my new computer to be repaired or replaced, I could have just as easily waited for outpost.com and saved about $150. Oh well. Maybe it's just my bad luck. But then again, my paycheck last week had an extra $175 on it that the payroll person said I could keep if I were discreet about it (it would have been a huge pain to fix the error). I guess that's karma or something.

[Evangellydonut]

We people here in Cali are used to 75+% of the computer stores being in Cali, thus always charging sales tax...'course finding a dealer from out-of-state is always nice on a big purchase...
Personally, I like the Apple Store for 3 reasons. BTO, early shipment of newly announced machines, and educational store. Also, shipping on a new machine's free, so that's nice too. If my Mac needs service beyond what I can do, I might as well send it back to Apple and have it replaced...

[hzink]

Why I and my clients ALWAYS buy from OUTPOST.COM.

* Ship significantly faster than AppleSTore.
* ALWAYS include extras, either RAM, printers, carrying bags, etc... with the order.
* NEVER sales tax
* NEVER shipping charges (that's a great bonus all by itself).

But the best reason - 30-day no-questions asked return policy.

In isolated cases, we had troubles with some ordered equipment (including a Cinema display), and everytime OUTPOST pre-shipped a replaced and allowed us to return the defective model after we received the replacement model.

That last point would more than enough be reason to use them exclusively - add all the other points together, and you have an unparalleled winner in OUTPOST.COM.

Harry

P.S. I have no association with OUTPOST.COM except for being a VERY satisfied customer.

The day after the MacWorld keynote (Thursday), I placed an order for a dual 500mHz G4 from the Apple Store. Had it the following Tuesday at 7:30am in Detroit.

I am also a satisfied customer of outpost.com. I have ordered from other mail order houses with no problems, but outpost.com has some distinct advantages:

- free shipping (particularly useful if you are ordering an inexpensive item or a heavy item such as a monitor)
- 30 day money back guarrantee (I have never tried to use it yet.)
- No sales tax.
- Sometimes they offer extra incentives (such as the floppy drive I received with my G4.)

I ordered my Mac G4 and an Apple Studio Monitor 17" from them. They both arrived the next day after I ordered them.

I did not order from the Apple store because it charges sales tax and it also charges shipping.

outpost.com's only disadvantage is that their prices are not always the lowest. buy.com is usually cheaper. However, buy.com does not sell Apple brand products.

Gabriel Lewison

Right now, as a university staff member, I enjoy a healthy discount on systems from the Apple Store for Education.

However, I would NEVER buy peripherals nor accessories from the Apple Store, because they are almost always overpriced and charge tax in all 50 states.

I've been buying from PowerMax <http://www.powermax.com> for about 5 years now, and have been extremely satisfied with their prices, and no tax (they're in Oregon). Sure, I have to pay shipping, but the thing they excel at is customer service. Very friendly and always looking to help out.

Yes, I do buy from other places like Outpost.com, but only if the price is a real deal-maker.

If you buy computers frequently, you're not going to stick with an online-only reseller. Sometimes you need to get a voice on the phone and establish a relationship. When the times comes that you really need to negotiate, you'll be able to -- can't do that with Outpost.com.

After reading all the above conflicting reports, I want to help clear something up. In the few states that do NOT have a state sales tax, Apple DOES NOT charge them tax. For all the states that do, the normal state sales tax applies (not the California sales tax). I just called the AppleStore and that's what they told me.

Originally posted by StephenRea:
Everyone seems to think that stores "charge" sales tax. Sales tax is "collected" by a store on behalf of your state, and county governments. If a store doesn't collect it for your state, you must still pay it on your state income tax return.

That's not true in all cases!! My business is in a New Jersey Urban Enterprise Zone and is tax exempt on *ALL* purchases. Ever try to submit a tax exempt certificate to Apple? Shopping at sales tax free is perfectly legitimate for us and saves a paperwork hassle.

I think local dealers are the best. Local support, great service and a team that cares. Their technical suppport is unmatched, their knowledge of Apple products and third party products selection is great!

Hats off to the guys at Mostly Mac in Canada. http://www.mostlymac.com

Thanks to King of Spain and Noyes! I'm a reseller in a small town. I wish all of the Mac users (most bought the computers at my store, some didn't) would buy local from us. It's very very difficult to stay in business when I offer free advice for simple questions. I do this as a courtesy to our local Mac community and especially new Mac users. Please support your local dealers.
The MOST important thing you can do to get more programs made is buy the programs or make your own and sell em on the net or locally. If program developers see that you're willing to pay a fair price, they WILL write the programs!
PLEASE! Thank you.

Sincerely, Boomhower

Originally posted by king of spain:
I think local dealers are the best. Local support, great service and a team that cares. Their technical suppport is unmatched, their knowledge of Apple products and third party products selection is great!

Hats off to the guys at Mostly Mac in Canada. http://www.mostlymac.com

[Misha]

At the same time, boomhower, you can't blame individuals for wanting to save a couple hundred dollars on what is already an expensive purchase. If you were spending $2000 and could save $200 by going elsewhere, wouldn't you? $200 is a healthy donation to "support" your local dealer... that's more than most probably donate to charities in a year.

I see this all the time in the bike industry, too. Someone will go into a shop, discuss with an employee the merits of all sorts of bikes and parts, and will then go home and call up a mail-order shop to get the part for a few bucks cheaper. Now /that/ really enervates me... it's like saying all the time and advice the guy spent with you wasn't worth the $5 extra you would have paid.

But hundreds of dollars?... don't get me wrong, I totally support local businesses, but I can't blame anyone (especially power users who know what they want) for scoping out the best deal, which in most cases isn't at their local shop.

[This message has been edited by Misha (edited 08-04-2000).]

I was looking for the G4 450 DP on outpost this morning, it seems that they have removed any trace of it...

They are still listing the cube, but seem to not be playing it up as they were before...

Has apple shot itself in the foot, with this whole we build them after we announce them thing. If this is due to the line stoppage, shouldn't this all have been figured out beforehand.

Anyone know of a dealer with the 450 dp in stock, ships free, and with no tax ?

[bstone]

My horror story is as such:

I am the lone IT guy for an all Mac company. It's really awsome and my dream job. I have a verbal PO Net 30 with CDW and always get everything I want the next day.

I ordered two 350mhz iMacs back in middle-June for shipment on July 1. About 3 days before shipment, my account manager at CDW calls me to tell me Apple has stopped shipment on all Macs and they don't have any left in stock. Furthermore, he doesn't know when they will be getting more, but thinks with MacWorld Expo around the corner, it would be soon.

So we wait for MacWorld while we did without our iMacs which we needed. During the Expo, my account manager, also a Mac nut, calls me and says "get on the web site NOW! You gotta see this." Remember, this was when Apple web site was almost IMPOSSIBLE to log onto. It was a happy point of my life.

That second I ordered 2 new iMac 400mhz systems in the new indigo and the pink-whatever color it is and also leased a dual G4 500mhz system with 1gb RAM, DVD-RAM and 40GB HD.

Here's the upsetting park. My account manager has NO IDEA when we are to be getting the new iMacs (intresting how Apple claims "immeadiate shipment) and the G4 that we are planning as our server I hear is now stopped in production, again with no idea when it is to be delivered. I am mad and confused .

Now if this was for my home computer, I wouldn't be so upset, but I have a company to run, we're growing RAPIDLY and our current G3 350mhz server just can't handle it. We are also moving to a new office with more staff next week and I am DREADING not getting that G4 by then. It will be a nightmare.

Apple, why have thee forsaken your humble servant? Why?


Brad Stone
Computer/Network Support Technician
RPh on the Go USA, Inc
800-553-7359 x141

"All Macs, all the time."

I ordered a new Snow iMac through the Apple Store (for education) the day after they were announced at MWNY. I ended up calling Apple instead of placing my order online. The website said it would ship in 5 days, and it did. It shipped on the following monday. I got it via FedEx that Wednesday, just one week after they were announced. (:

Needless to say, I'm happy with the AppleStore (other than the sales guy who kept trying to push AppleCare).

Mike,

A PC user for over 15 years, I wanted to buy a G4. Apple's price for RAM are so outrageous I wanted to buy a machine with the minimal amount of RAM (64MB) and add some from my previous PC. Looking for a G4-500Mhz in stores, I saw they were sold with 256Mb as standard. The Apple Store is the only way to get one with only 64Mb. This is why I bought it from the store.
The Apple Store itself is not very user friendly. To add or remove something from the order, one must cancel the order first (by calling Apple on the phone) and put a new order through. Delivery is relatively fast.

Renaud

[ZooTV]

No no no, I called Small Dog to get a BTO, I did not go there in person. Get with it...

I prefer to buy from my local mac reseller. They really love macs, they are very friendly, and they have an awesome store too! Hats off to MacCenter in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
www.maccenter.com

With regard to BTO systems, any Authorized Apple reseller can provide BTO configured systems and you should in my opinion make your purchase based on service and accessibilty to your service provider. The free perks that are offered by catalogers are often offset by a general lack of service and knowledge that is easily accessible to the customer

[MacNZ]

Well, I have no choice but to buy from a 3rd party seller. I live in NZ and Apple ain't sell them any other way. Can't import them from the states because of export restrictions in the states.
I found 3rd Party Sellers are either knowledgable and helpful or dumb and up themselves. They usually have a large range in price here too but going for the most friendly, knowledgeable group usually works for me.

The bottom line is that as this trend continues, (window shopping at a traditional Apple dealer, then purchasing online or at the Apple Store), the traditional dealer will go out of business because they're charging "too much". Then those of us who own Apple computers won't have a local repair facility. All of the posts I've read here seem to take for granted the hardware service issue. The traditional dealer should have the option of repairing noncustomer's computers under warranty. Mail order and online should have to repair their customers computers. Which means putting that tower in a box and shipping it back with shipping charges.....

[tooki]

On resellers allowing immediate exchange of DOA systems: a lot of you seem to think that the Apple Store offers significantly better service than a dealer. In reality, Apple will not exchange a machine until every component has been individually replaced!! The only warranty you get from the Apple Store is the Apple 1 year warranty -- the same warranty you get with every Mac, no matter where you buy it. A store can decide to be generous and offer additional warranty coverage, as in Sears.

Generally, I have found that the Apple Store charges exactly the same as buying the machine from a local Apple dealer, and that mail-order houses are cheaper, but at the cost of truly knowledgeable salespeople.

Note that no matter where you buy the machine, you will first be referred by Apple tech support to a local dealer, unless you are 50 miles away or further, in which case they will provide on-site service (if you compain hard enough, they will do that even if you're closer, but expect to spend hours on the phone achieving that).

As both an Apple Store customer (once, and never again!!), and former employee of an Apple dealer, I am extremely intimate with Apple's warranty and sales policy (which SUCKS compared to Dell or IBM, or even Gateway). If you have any problems with them, let me know and I'll see if I know any tips.

P.S. to those of you who are awaiting a G4 from the Apple Store and are being told that they are waiting for the Accessory Kits: that is a complete and total lie, and just a coverup for the technical issues mentioned on MacNN a few days ago.

tooki