[slugslugslug]

I think the Notes and To-do features make far more sense as part of iCal than Mail. I like the idea of a Photo library browser in Mail, but couldn't care less about the template stuff. I can appreciate the usefulness of occasional html mail, but I don't think people need to be encouraged to use all kinds of stationery every time they want to send some pictures.

I'd have to agree, though, that improvements to bundled apps aren't that exciting from the point of view of the OS. Unless, like the To-do thing, they're features that any app can hook into.

I also would imagine that FTFFing is one of the big Top-Secret changes. Though honestly, I don't know why they have to keep anything secret. Microsoft is not gonna have time to add big new features to Vista, the way they're scrambling to finish the ones they've got by spring.

[bowwowman]

Any indications what the minimum system specs they will be targeting for the new OS? Will it run on my G4 15" FP iMAC (800MHz)?

Originally Posted by SLiMeX

I'd actually like to know this as well.

RTFMFCOL..........

from the sneak peek page at apple.com/macosx:


"From G3 to Xeon, from MacBook to Xserve, there is just one Leopard"

[lookmark]

Originally Posted by inkhead

The finder is GOING to change in a huge way. 100% sure of that, I'll bet anyone $500 on it. Apple is waiting for it to be too late for MS to copy the features.

Agreed. Jobs pretty much all but spelled out it out. There's a big UI revamp coming, but it's still under wraps.

[bowwowman]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Was anybody expecting ZFS or Ogg support?

Since the new macs & xserves appear to be next-generation/cutting edge machines (read the details on the specs), I was kinda hoping for similar advancements in the file system to go with them.......... perhaps thats one of the "secret" changes

[CharlesS]

Hmm, this WebClip thing could piss off some web sites. Notice how he clips that Dilbert page so that you can't see the banner ads anymore?

[Dark Helmet]

http://www.macfixit.com/

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by bowwowman

Since the new macs & xserves appear to be next-generation/cutting edge machines (read the details on the specs), I was kinda hoping for similar advancements in the file system to go with them.......... perhaps thats one of the "secret" changes

There are probably upcoming advances in the filesystem, but I doubt one of them is, "Hey, we're suddenly Sun!"

[I WAS the One]

Why you guys always want to be so negative about Apple evolutionary and revolutionary steps it makes?? Don't you see that Apple it's getting ahead more faster than evryone thought it will be? Windows once had a couple of features like the ones Apple introduced today? YES. Did we the regular consumers noticed that? NO. and I've been using Windows at my office for decades! and never and I mean NEVER notice anything revolutionary. At the end I just used Windows for Net surfing and some apps that didn't come for Mac. that's it. With my Mac I know what I want to use. how to use it and wnat to create more... even if I don't wanna do anything, suddenly I'm doing something spectacular with my Mac. Apple push me and inspire me to do remarkable things, Windows don't. for me Apple it going up with this preview. far UP. in fact this is only the beggining of a new user experience and the end of Windows Fame. that's the way I see it. Keep going up!! Apple ! WOOHOOOO!!!!

[alphasubzero949]

Why the negativity? Because Apple is engaging in Creeping featuritis. Nothing in the keynote was earth-shattering. Spaces? It has been in *nix DEs for a long time. Time Machine? It's a system restore clone. Everything else? BFD.

Vista only has to be 'good enough' to keep customers locked into MS and as much as we all want to laugh at MS, Vista has closed the gap with OS X. It was childish of Apple to go on with the Vista-bashing especially after the run-of-the-mill feature set they revealed because if OS X is really good as Steve hypes it up to be, it can speak for itself without the jabs.

For Leopard to re-open the gap, Apple really needs to make some ground-breaking strides instead of piling on useless features. I really hope that I am wrong by the time Leopard ships and the wraps have been taken off of the 'super secret' features, but the only way Apple is "going up" is by a few ticks in their single-digit marketshare.

Apple has been parading all of this time about their desire to steal away marketshare from MS. What, a whole 1%? 1.5%? Hardly anywhere near the "95% to go" claim.

If Apple wants to steal marketshare? Release OS X for generic x86 boxes. It's no secret that NeXTSTEP was portable (PPC, SPARC, x86, etc.) and I am sure that Apple has OSx86 running on ordinary PCs in a hidden lab somewhere in Cupertino. But I don't see that happening unless Apple is in dire straits and about to give their one last 'hurrah.'

[CollinG3G4]

Originally Posted by lookmark

Agreed. Jobs pretty much all but spelled out it out. There's a big UI revamp coming, but it's still under wraps.

Agreed.
After viewing the Core Animation video on the Leopard preview page, I am thinking the new Finder is integrated with some sort of 3D file environment.

[as2]

Well the Time Machine demo had the windows floating on top of each other going back into the screen.. Also, there was mention of lots of new animations.

[legacyb4]

Looks like a much nicer version of Windows Server 2003 Shadow Copies (you set the destination drive for n number of megabytes for rollback over previous file versions, and with a right-click, you can quickly jump back to y number of snapshots of your file share). What's nice though is that Apple is making this available at the consumer level and easy to understand. Was there any mention of how incremented these snapshots are?

I'm really digging the Spaces bit; I know it's not new but it's going to be nice to see it integrated into the system proper which means we'll all be getting more mileage out of our big LCD screens!

Originally Posted by kman42

I wonder if you can copy a file from Time Machine. From the QT movie it looks like it replaces the newer version with the older version when you hit restore.

kman

[Axel]

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

If Apple wants to steal marketshare? Release OS X for generic x86 boxes. It's no secret that NeXTSTEP was portable (PPC, SPARC, x86, etc.) and I am sure that Apple has OSx86 running on ordinary PCs in a hidden lab somewhere in Cupertino.

Why would they hide the lab
People have been installing OS X on PCs ever since Apple started their switch to Intel !

[inkhead]

Apple has some really ground breaking features. They are completely redoing the finder. Have you ever been to a WWDC session, where Apple was doing something so "secret" that they wouldn't even show their developers!!! They are redoing the finder completely and many OS level services, why do you think Jobs even mentioned the top secret stuff? So you wouldn't be dissappointed. Why do you think he didn't show you the finder, or for that matter spotlight?

The preview that's available for developers today has a pretty plain Finder, but before it ships the finder will be switched out for the new one, as well as the full blown front row 2.0 which is specially designed for HDTVs, and will have new hardware out then too ;-) (codename)

[inkhead]

Anyone know if it's been put on the ADC FTP yet for select developers? I'm going to buy a select account right now, but Apple's developer site login & signup is broken as of right now. :-(

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

Apple has been parading all of this time about their desire to steal away marketshare from MS. What, a whole 1%? 1.5%? Hardly anywhere near the "95% to go" claim.

If Apple wants to steal marketshare? Release OS X for generic x86 boxes.

I think there was an implicit "and not go out of business" along with the stealing marketshare.

[besson3c]

Here are some thoughts on Time Machine I posted into the Keynote thread, they are probably more appropriate here:


Every file has a version number, which defaults to 1 if no other versions of the same filename are present (otherwise one higher than the greatest version). Every time a file is saved, rather than overwriting the existing version, a new file with the same name but an incremented version number is created. Old versions are can be deleted explicitly, with the DELETE or the PURGE command, or optionally, older versions of a file can be deleted automatically when the file's version limit is reached (set by SET FILE/VERSION_LIMIT). Old versions are thus not overwritten, but are kept on disk and may be retrieved at any time. The architectural limit on version numbers is 32767. The versioning behavior is easily overridden if it is unwanted. In particular, files which are directly updated, such as databases, do not create new versions unless explicitly programmed.

[besson3c]

Hmmm... maybe my theory is not quite there. Here is how OpenVMS's file system handles versioning:

Every file has a version number, which defaults to 1 if no other versions of the same filename are present (otherwise one higher than the greatest version). Every time a file is saved, rather than overwriting the existing version, a new file with the same name but an incremented version number is created. Old versions are can be deleted explicitly, with the DELETE or the PURGE command, or optionally, older versions of a file can be deleted automatically when the file's version limit is reached (set by SET FILE/VERSION_LIMIT). Old versions are thus not overwritten, but are kept on disk and may be retrieved at any time. The architectural limit on version numbers is 32767. The versioning behavior is easily overridden if it is unwanted. In particular, files which are directly updated, such as databases, do not create new versions unless explicitly programmed.

Maybe Leopard will simply do this sort of thing, and just keep hard copies of each file... That will of course increase disk space consumption rather than just retaining the changes to a file only...

More to learn I guess...



I wonder if Leopard still uses HFS+ to handle this?

[I WAS the One]

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

Why the negativity? Because Apple is engaging in Creeping featuritis. Nothing in the keynote was earth-shattering. Spaces? It has been in *nix DEs for a long time. Time Machine? It's a system restore clone. Everything else? BFD.

OK, let's get real, do you think Jobs thinks this WWDC Leopard preview will change computer history? I bet he is just playing here, as an inside joke. Secret features? that's what will change computing history. remember when everyone was happy with OS 9, and suddenly Puma came in? People was scare of Puma, in fact, Cheetah was more scary than Puma, and then the mistery start. We was getting used to Jaguar and suddenly...all Mac rumors sites was talking about Panther, somehow Jobs knew that Panther was the answer everybody was talking about. and he showed a preview with only a couple of eye candies...

iChat AV, Exposé, Mail and Speed... with that said, Jobs was saying to everyone: Do you liked Exposé? I know and that's just the beginning... it was a show off presentation to make clear that they were working hard on a new dimension, something revolutionary enough that nobody saw it comming.

1)Fast User Switching

2)the new Metal-looking, multi-threaded Finder (re-written from scratch).
The user now has handy shortcuts on the left side of any Finder window, shortcuts that lead to folders, other computers, media, disk images etc.

3) Preview was reading PDFs at light speed!

4) The new Safari was eating Explorer bite per bite...

5) TextEdit was reading .doc files.

6) Automatic iDisk for .Mac users

and so on...

He changed the OS X we was starting to like and get used to... he changed our Jaguar...We were happy with Jaguar. The New Mac OS that replaced OS 9, and we all insulted at the begining. What a hell of a surprise! Panther was born. and PUM! Jobs remaked history one more time.

People... what Jobs show us today was just the gadgets he liked to play with. He was showing off because he knew we all want to know what's Apple is doing secretly at their lab. It's just the icing of the cake. and I know that because he didn't said: "And one more thing..."

prepare for a holocaust. Leopard will blow our minds.

P.D. hey, some rumor that is leaking out there and it felt srong is that Windows Apps will run on Leopard without Windows. and thats just a rumor. maybe it's a lie, maybe it's true... but it is a strong lie repeating it self again and again... something will happen... stay tuned.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Hmmm... maybe my theory is not quite there. Here is how OpenVMS's file system handles versioning:




Maybe Leopard will simply do this sort of thing, and just keep hard copies of each file... That will of course increase disk space consumption rather than just retaining the changes to a file only...

More to learn I guess...



I wonder if Leopard still uses HFS+ to handle this?

Remember that Time Machine is a backup system as well as a versioning system. It doesn't make sense to have that based on the file system. They have also been trying to be more FS-independent, it seems.

[Velocity211]

So...is Quartz 2D Extreme enabled yet?

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

P.D. hey, some rumor that is leaking out there and it felt srong is that Windows Apps will run on Leopard without Windows. and thats just a rumor. maybe it's a lie, maybe it's true... but it is a strong lie repeating it self again and again... something will happen... stay tuned.

This will NOT come from Apple. If it did, then we could all kiss Mac OS X specific application development goodbye.

Apple knows this.

[alphasubzero949]

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

remember when everyone was happy with OS 9, and suddenly Puma came in? People was scare of Puma, in fact, Cheetah was more scary than Puma, and then the mistery start.

Uhhh...no. Cheetah was first and OS X as a whole was a direct lift from NeXTSTEP. Nothing revolutionary at all. Apple bought NeXT to get the operating system which in a turn of events led to Steve Jobs' second coming. Apple was looking to dump the classic Mac OS and the next few years were spent 'Macifying' NeXTSTEP into OS X. I for one was excited about finally getting NeXTSTEP as OS X.

iChat AV, Exposé, Mail and Speed... with that said, Jobs was saying to everyone: Do you liked Exposé? I know and that's just the beginning... it was a show off presentation to make clear that they were working hard on a new dimension, something revolutionary enough that nobody saw it comming.

From what I remember, what he presented at the WWDC was largely the same marketing material after the final release.

1)Fast User Switching

Existed in Windows and is a GUI front for multiple logins from the command line.

2)the new Metal-looking, multi-threaded Finder (re-written from scratch).
The user now has handy shortcuts on the left side of any Finder window, shortcuts that lead to folders, other computers, media, disk images etc.

It's the same Finder from 10.0-10.2 with the fugly metal and the toolbar relocated to the sidebar. And guess what, under the older versions of OS X you could still put the same shortcuts in the toolbar.

3) Preview was reading PDFs at light speed!

Light speed??? Get real.

4) The new Safari was eating Explorer bite per bite...

You're comparing a cocoa app to a half-assed carbon port. Anything was putting IE to shame.

5) TextEdit was reading .doc files.

Only because enough people requested it. Not groundbreaking.

6) Automatic iDisk for .Mac users

When it works. But it is a nice touch.

I suggest reading up on NeXTSTEP. THAT was revolutionary. Bringing OS X to the Macintosh was revolutionary. Bringing column views to Mac users was revolutionary. Disabling root and requiring sudo for administrative purposes was revolutionary (wasn't seen in Linux until Ubuntu came along and adopted the same model).

Where Apple really shows their innovation in OS X is in their attention to detail. There are many obvious examples of this as well as in NeXTSTEP.

But perhaps the biggest claim to fame with NeXTSTEP was its portability. Those who knew about that fact were frankly not surprised by Jobs' revelation of the x86 port. It was a matter of when.

You want to talk about revolutionary features? How about implementing ZFS or a real file system instead of the HFS crud from the beige box days?

He changed the OS X we was starting to like and get used to... he changed our Jaguar...We were happy with Jaguar.

Subjective. Others here are inclined to disagree with you.

The New Mac OS that replaced OS 9, and we all insulted at the begining. What a hell of a surprise! Panther was born. and PUM! Jobs remaked history one more time.

Insulted? Remade history with Panther? Put down the Kool-Aid, please.

prepare for a holocaust. Leopard will blow our minds.

I'll believe it when I see it. Vista has already caught up.

P.D. hey, some rumor that is leaking out there and it felt srong is that Windows Apps will run on Leopard without Windows. and thats just a rumor. maybe it's a lie, maybe it's true... but it is a strong lie repeating it self again and again... something will happen... stay tuned.

You can already do that via DarWINE and if Apple were to implement that developers would have no incentive to continue creating apps for OS X when they could simply release Windows versions.

[fuzzball963]

Well I liked what I saw and am hoping for more . As far as Core Animation and the GUI goes my MBP 15 inch with the 256MB card should be able to display Leopard in all its graphical glory with prety much no slowdown right ? . At least I hope

[Thinine]

Originally Posted by inkhead

Anyone know if it's been put on the ADC FTP yet for select developers? I'm going to buy a select account right now, but Apple's developer site login & signup is broken as of right now. :-(

I don't think the WWDC builds are available to anyone but WWDC attendees. But Select members should have access to future builds (whenever they start). So I would probably wait until one has been confirmed before buying it. Also, I doubt the developer seeds will have any of the top secret features Steve mentioned today until they're announced publicly. That'll happen at MWSF in January most likely. The seeds after that and before the release are going to be the most interesting.

[JLL]

Originally Posted by SkaGoat

Longhorn had fast searching long before Tiger came out.

And Tiger was out almost 2 years before Longhorn will be.

Originally Posted by SkaGoat

Outlook has had all the useful features being added to Mail and iCal.

Checked the price on an Exchange setup lately?

[JLL]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Here are some thoughts on Time Machine I posted into the Keynote thread, they are probably more appropriate here:


Every file has a version number, which defaults to 1 if no other versions of the same filename are present (otherwise one higher than the greatest version). Every time a file is saved, rather than overwriting the existing version, a new file with the same name but an incremented version number is created. Old versions are can be deleted explicitly, with the DELETE or the PURGE command, or optionally, older versions of a file can be deleted automatically when the file's version limit is reached (set by SET FILE/VERSION_LIMIT). Old versions are thus not overwritten, but are kept on disk and may be retrieved at any time. The architectural limit on version numbers is 32767. The versioning behavior is easily overridden if it is unwanted. In particular, files which are directly updated, such as databases, do not create new versions unless explicitly programmed.

Time Machine is more simple than that. It takes a full snapshot of you hard drice (except cache files) to another drive/partition - it does not backup to the same drive/partition.

From time to time it makes a new snapshot, but all unchanged files will only be hardlinks thus not taking up any space and at the end of the day it consolidates the day's snapshots into one.

[lpkmckenna]

My opinions about the keynote:

Obvious: Apple is hiding their new UI, new Finder, new Safari, new QuickTime, and new Spotlight.

Time Machine makes every other backup system look next-to-useless. That is a truly clever interface. (The "white hole" at the end was over-the-top, though.)

Think about this:

1. Do applications need to be updated to take advantage of Time Machine? For instance: did iPhoto need to be updated to work in that demo? - (I say yes)

2. Do applications need to be updated to take advantage of iChat Theatre? For instance: did Keynote need to be updated to work in that iChat demo? - (I say yes)

3. "Complete Package" might also include other apps. Does Mac OS X without iLife sound like a "complete package" to you? - (I say no)

Take those three ideas together: maybe iLife and iWork will be folded into Mac OS X ??

If Apple is planning to market "a complete package," and do it honestly, the complete package really requires OS X + iLife + iWork.

If I buy Leopard, but can't use iLife 06 with Time Machine or can't use iWork 06 with iChat Theatre, I'm gonna be pissed.

Maybe the reason Leopard looks so "light on features" right now is that the complete feature list actually includes iLife and iWork? Maybe Apple is sincere about "the complete package?"

[/wishful thinking]

EDIT: after Steve finished talking about Boot Camp, Front Row, and Photo Booth, he said: "these are just three examples of how we are going to ship the complete package of applications we have with Leopard."

So there are more apps to be added, then? iLife? iWork? QT Pro? What else is there?

[Big Mac]

I think those of you who are hoping for jaw-dropping advancements on the Finder front should adjust your expectations, as others have said. I am of the mind that if Jobs did not demo it, it's probably not going to be in the final release. It should be apparent by now that Apple does not think the Finder needs to be improved or enhanced all that much.

[SMacSteve]

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

OK, let's get real, do you think Jobs thinks this WWDC Leopard preview will change computer history? I bet he is just playing here, as an inside joke. Secret features? that's what will change computing history. remember when everyone was happy with OS 9, and suddenly Puma came in? People was scare of Puma, in fact, Cheetah was more scary than Puma, and then the mistery start. We was getting used to Jaguar and suddenly...all Mac rumors sites was talking about Panther, somehow Jobs knew that Panther was the answer everybody was talking about. and he showed a preview with only a couple of eye candies...

iChat AV, Exposé, Mail and Speed... with that said, Jobs was saying to everyone: Do you liked Exposé? I know and that's just the beginning... it was a show off presentation to make clear that they were working hard on a new dimension, something revolutionary enough that nobody saw it comming.

1)Fast User Switching

2)the new Metal-looking, multi-threaded Finder (re-written from scratch).
The user now has handy shortcuts on the left side of any Finder window, shortcuts that lead to folders, other computers, media, disk images etc.

3) Preview was reading PDFs at light speed!

4) The new Safari was eating Explorer bite per bite...

5) TextEdit was reading .doc files.

6) Automatic iDisk for .Mac users

and so on...

He changed the OS X we was starting to like and get used to... he changed our Jaguar...We were happy with Jaguar. The New Mac OS that replaced OS 9, and we all insulted at the begining. What a hell of a surprise! Panther was born. and PUM! Jobs remaked history one more time.

People... what Jobs show us today was just the gadgets he liked to play with. He was showing off because he knew we all want to know what's Apple is doing secretly at their lab. It's just the icing of the cake. and I know that because he didn't said: "And one more thing..."

prepare for a holocaust. Leopard will blow our minds.

P.D. hey, some rumor that is leaking out there and it felt srong is that Windows Apps will run on Leopard without Windows. and thats just a rumor. maybe it's a lie, maybe it's true... but it is a strong lie repeating it self again and again... something will happen... stay tuned.

I like the way you think! Well said!

[onlykaria]

i am very excited about leopard. it will be worth it just for the text to speech new voices, i use T2S to read nearly everything.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I think those of you who are hoping for jaw-dropping advancements on the Finder front should adjust your expectations, as others have said. I am of the mind that if Jobs did not demo it, it's probably not going to be in the final release. It should be apparent by now that Apple does not think the Finder needs to be improved or enhanced all that much.

So what's the big secret, then?

[Big Mac]

I don't know, where's the proof that there is one?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I don't know, where's the proof that there is one?

I guess you didn't see the keynote, then? Steve said they were keep a few things secret for a while.

[monkeybrain]

iChat isn't brushed metal anymore, that has got to be an indication that the Finder will also change (since iChat is a good use of metal - a communication tool, akin to a phone if you like).

[furrylogic]

64 -bit
Will our existing 64-bit G5s see performance improvements with the move to a 64-bit OS? I have been happy to see how over the last few years the OS and many iApps have improved performance on existing hardware with each iteration.

Panther Server
I was very interested in the little bit of information that is available about the server. In particular, the new firewall. There was only one sentence in their press release. Does anyone have some speculations as to what kinds of changes we can be expecting here. Also, the ability to scale services sounded interesting, but are they really doing something new here?

[JLL]

Originally Posted by furrylogic

64 -bit
Will our exisit 64-bit G5s see performance improvements with the move to a 64-bit OS?

Only if you run an app the would benefit from 64-bit.

[Gee4orce]

If you want an 'advanced Finder' then please go and download PathFinder and play with that for a bit.

As for these comments about Vista already being better than Mac OS X - I'm sorry - say that again ? Vista ? Where can I go and buy that ? Oh, I can't. Better than Mac OS X Tiger that's been around for, what, 18 months at least ? Hmmm. Okay....whatever.

Oh look, a flying pig !

[I WAS the One]

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

If you want an 'advanced Finder' then please go and download PathFinder and play with that for a bit.

As for these comments about Vista already being better than Mac OS X - I'm sorry - say that again ? Vista ? Where can I go and buy that ? Oh, I can't. Better than Mac OS X Tiger that's been around for, what, 18 months at least ? Hmmm. Okay....whatever.

Oh look, a flying pig !

LOL! I use PF4 and it filled the gaps... it's great!

[BZ]

After watching the core animation video on Apple.com I could think of nothing cooler than a desktop that behaved like that.

BZ

[Gavin]

No one is picking up on the major theme of this OS. You have to look at the whole taken together.

Many if not most of the enhancements are applicable to an office environment.

iCal - calendar sharing, schedule meetings, reserve equipment, etc.
iChat - video conference, remote desktop management, private server with encryption, presentations.
Mail - sharable notes, to-do list, rss feeds, templates (think business communications not letter to gramma)
Spotlight - search machines on the network, results respect file permissions
Archived backup
Accessibility changes
Boot Camp

Leopard Server has software that is clearly meant to replace Exchange Server and other groupware servers.

Apple's OS, hardware, brand awareness, reputation, and market share have all finally matured to the point that business will actually take a look at it.

All of this stuff is aimed right at the 3rd floor at corporate.

Leopard is going after the enterprise market.

[jbleisure]

Personally I thought it looked good. Making todos possible in mail whilst on its own would have left me witrh an 'about time' feeling - making todos possible from any app gave me a 'nice touch' feeling. I use mail but would like much tigher integrtion with ical. Lets hope theres more of that to come.

Time machine. Looks great - although not if you hold shares in Superduper or Carbon Copy
Cloner!

Also spaces rocked. - I would use that alot as Ioften have lots of apps and tasks running. It has the look and feel of expose which I love.

Would have like to have seen more ical but really liked the abiity to create your own personalised widgets. Very useful.....and it looked incedibly simple.

All in all I was reinspired by what an innovative company Apple is.

[jbleisure]

Apple's OS, hardware, brand awareness, reputation, and market share have all finally matured to the point that business will actually take a look at it.

I agree. I run my own business and it is good to see that Apple are making changes that make business use of the Mac easier and more upfront.

[MacManMikeOSX]

Anyone else think the whole not wanting MS to copy them is an excuse to cover their asses for not being ready for WWDC?

[Stecchino]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

http://www.macfixit.com/

Thanks for that link. MacFixIt has some nice nitty-gritty details on new Leopard features. I'm sure more and more Leopard Preview hands-on reviews with screenshots are to come.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by MacManMikeOSX

Anyone else think the whole not wanting MS to copy them is an excuse to cover their asses for not being ready for WWDC?

No. I absolutely believe them.

If they showed the brand new finder yesterday you can bet the next Vista build will already have some of the look and features in it. Considering Vista is 4-6 months away they have lots of time to copy.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by MacManMikeOSX

Anyone else think the whole not wanting MS to copy them is an excuse to cover their asses for not being ready for WWDC?

It could go either way, but knowing Apple, I'm actually inclined to believe them. Steve really wasn't joking about that "All they do is copy Apple and Google" bit.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

If I buy Leopard, but can't use iLife 06 with Time Machine or can't use iWork 06 with iChat Theatre, I'm gonna be pissed.

Then you're gonna be pissed, because by the time Leopard is released in Spring 2007, iLife 07 and iWork 07 will be out, and those will be required for Time Machine functionality.

They probably won't release a patch to iLife 06 and iWork 06 to add that functionality. Now, if Leopard were to be released at the end of 2006, we might have seen those patches.

[OwlBoy]

Originally Posted by Person Man

Then you're gonna be pissed, because by the time Leopard is released in Spring 2007, iLife 07 and iWork 07 will be out, and those will be required for Time Machine functionality.

They probably won't release a patch to iLife 06 and iWork 06 to add that functionality. Now, if Leopard were to be released at the end of 2006, we might have seen those patches.

Steve said 10.5 will be coming with "everything included" so that means all of iLife will come along for the ride. This is prolly because it is needed for Time Machine to work.

-Owl

[simifilm]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I think those of you who are hoping for jaw-dropping advancements on the Finder front should adjust your expectations, as others have said. I am of the mind that if Jobs did not demo it, it's probably not going to be in the final release. It should be apparent by now that Apple does not think the Finder needs to be improved or enhanced all that much.

I don't know if the changes will be jaw-dropping, but there will be changes, and there's plenty of evidence for it:

- Apple already said when they released Tiger that they will go for UI resolution independence. It wasn't mentioned at all during the keynote.

- They announced big updates to Spotlight, but haven't seen anything of it.

- And last but not least: Finder improvements are obligatory part of every OSX update, but they haven't showed as anything.

I'm pretty sure that lots of stuff will happen, maybe most of it is under the hood - resolution independence - but the Finder will change.