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shifuimam · Sep 21, 2009, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by ironknee

free market

So would you also say that other non-profits - like museums, orchestras, homeless shelters, etc. should also be taxed as businesses, even if they're not trying to make a profit?

A church is more or less a service organization. They provide a service to the faith-based community by offering a place to worship, learn, and be with others of the same faith. That's not really a business, and churches don't (or shouldn't) try to compete with each other for new visitors. So it shouldn't really be categorized as "free market".

olePigeon · Sep 21, 2009, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by placebo1969

How long before what I see is an obvious pattern emerges with ACORN? One office? Bad apples. Two offices? Hmm. Three offices? Yikes. Four offices?

I'm not excusing the people involved, but I just wanted to make some clarifications. It was only one office. What FOX News conveniently did was not report:

One office turned the pimp away.
The other two offices called the police.

In an effort to steer away attention from Conservative senators, FOX News misrepresented the facts as usual. The other two videos of the ACORN officials "helping" the pimp were stall tactics to keep the pimp there until the police arrived, as verified by the 911 call and incident report.

olePigeon · Sep 21, 2009, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

A church is more or less a service organization. They provide a service to the faith-based community by offering a place to worship, learn, and be with others of the same faith. That's not really a business, and churches don't (or shouldn't) try to compete with each other for new visitors.

Except that many churches:

Produce, market, and sell both religious & non-religious products and services
Buy, own, rent, and lease commerical office space
Collect interest on investments

Chongo · Sep 21, 2009, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Except that many churches:

Produce, market, and sell both religious & non-religious products and services
Buy, own, rent, and lease commerical office space
Collect interest on investments

So does Rainbow/PUSH (and Jesse aint telling where the money went.)

olePigeon · Sep 21, 2009, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

So does Rainbow/PUSH (and Jesse aint telling where the money went.)

Yup. I think there needs to be a huge shakedown of all these "non-profit" organizations making millions (sometimes billions) of tax free dollars. The Catholic diocese in Boston listed their net worth at over $500 million.

That's just Boston.

ironknee · Sep 22, 2009, 02:36 PM

^^ yep, all of them should be investigated from super churches to acorn to mormons...

shifuimam · Sep 22, 2009, 09:38 PM

I won't deny that there are a lot of churches with way too much money. But it's also a bit extreme to give a blanket statement that *all* faith-based organizations should be taxed as businesses. There are plenty of rescue missions, homeless shelters, rehab programs, and even churches that barely have enough money to pay the ministers and basic staff members. Taxing them would mean their definite demise.

stupendousman · Sep 22, 2009, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I won't deny that there are a lot of churches with way too much money. But it's also a bit extreme to give a blanket statement that *all* faith-based organizations should be taxed as businesses. There are plenty of rescue missions, homeless shelters, rehab programs, and even churches that barely have enough money to pay the ministers and basic staff members. Taxing them would mean their definite demise.

...and well...be unconstitutional.

I don't think there's anything in the Constitution about protecting left-wing rackets who encourage illegal behavior from government intervention on the other hand.

hyteckit · Sep 22, 2009, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

...and well...be unconstitutional.

I don't think there's anything in the Constitution about protecting left-wing rackets who encourage illegal behavior from government intervention on the other hand.

Haha...

Taxing companies and organizations is unconstitutional?

Do conservatives just toss out the word "unconstitutional" with everything they disagree with?

stupendousman · Sep 23, 2009, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Haha...

Taxing companies and organizations is unconstitutional?

No. Government interference with religion and churches.

Gee-Man · Sep 23, 2009, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I'm not excusing the people involved, but I just wanted to make some clarifications. It was only one office. What FOX News conveniently did was not report:

One office turned the pimp away.
The other two offices called the police.

In an effort to steer away attention from Conservative senators, FOX News misrepresented the facts as usual. The other two videos of the ACORN officials "helping" the pimp were stall tactics to keep the pimp there until the police arrived, as verified by the 911 call and incident report.

Do you have a link for this info about a 911 call and one office turning them away? I'm curious, I hadn't heard this before.

Gee-Man · Sep 23, 2009, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Well, there you go:

House votes to deny all federal funds for ACORN - Yahoo! News

I learned something interesting today when reading about this. Apparently, the Constitution prohibits laws designed to specifically target an individual or group without a trial. This link from Glenn Greenwald explains what a "Bill of Attainder" is. So technically, the bill that just passed isn't really just a "de-fund ACORN bill", because that would be unconstitutional, but a more general bill designed to de-fund any group that has been found guilty of filing fraudulent forms, or any other form of corruption. And, as such, this could potentially strip funding for many current government defense contractors who have already been found guilty of such behavior, repeatedly.

Very interesting.

ironknee · Sep 23, 2009, 03:15 PM

come to our church, we pray harder!

hyteckit · Sep 23, 2009, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

No. Government interference with religion and churches.

Well, if they are committing fraud, evading taxes, and doing illegal activities, you can bet the government will be on the @sses.

hyteckit · Sep 23, 2009, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Gee-Man

I learned something interesting today when reading about this. Apparently, the Constitution prohibits laws designed to specifically target an individual or group without a trial. This link from Glenn Greenwald explains what a "Bill of Attainder" is. So technically, the bill that just passed isn't really just a "de-fund ACORN bill", because that would be unconstitutional, but a more general bill designed to de-fund any group that has been found guilty of filing fraudulent forms, or any other form of corruption. And, as such, this could potentially strip funding for many current government defense contractors who have already been found guilty of such behavior, repeatedly.

Very interesting.

Sweet. That means we can go after the billions of dollars that are going to churches.

Not all churches of course, but churches who are protecting pedophiles and not reporting crimes.

hyteckit · Sep 23, 2009, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

come to our church, we pray harder!

and longer, and with more soul.

besson3c · Sep 23, 2009, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

come to our church, we pray harder!

Do you have seasons tickets to some kick ass seats?

hyteckit · Sep 23, 2009, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Do you have seasons tickets to some kick ass seats?

Front roll tickets? So you can be closer to God?

That's not cheap man.

ironknee · Sep 23, 2009, 08:09 PM

Don't be fooled by other "Churches." Our Church is the Real Thing.

Try Our Church for a month for free.

Only Our Church has the Real bones of Jesus.

ebuddy · Sep 23, 2009, 08:46 PM

Isn't this just atheist proselytizing here?

With this much zeal you'd think there'd be a place other than a church where pedophiles and criminals and all unsightly characters could go and not be all convicted and judged and stuff.

hyteckit · Sep 23, 2009, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Can we ever have an atheist-proselytizing-free thread?

I'm just checkin'. With this much zeal you'd think there'd be a place other than a church where pedophiles could go and not be all convicted and judged and stuff.

What? Atheism? Being against Churches disgusting acts is atheism? So being against ACORN disgusting acts is racism?

ACORN gets $5 million a year in federal funding.
Churches get billions of dollars a year in federal funding.

Both organizations are not reporting illegal acts to the federal government.
Both should have their federal funding pulled.

olePigeon · Sep 23, 2009, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Gee-Man

Do you have a link for this info about a 911 call and one office turning them away? I'm curious, I hadn't heard this before.

Google's your friend. Yes, they called the police. Yes, the "pimp" was turned away by several ACORN offices.

olePigeon · Sep 23, 2009, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Sweet. That means we can go after the billions of dollars that are going to churches.

Not all churches of course, but churches who are protecting pedophiles and not reporting crimes.

No. The Vatican is very quick to intervene. Unfortunately, officials bend over for the pope. Probably literally at times.

ebuddy · Sep 23, 2009, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

What? Atheism? Being against Churches disgusting acts is atheism?

Of course not. Statements like these are -

Do you have seasons tickets to some kick ass seats?

Front roll tickets? So you can be closer to God? That's not cheap man.

Only Our Church has the Real bones of Jesus.

It is more than simply critical of the behavior of a church using facts to affirm an argument, but is short attention span theatre for hand-cymbal clapping monkeys. I'm all for investigations of pedophilia, extortion, laundering, fraud, and abuse both inside and outside the churches, but I certainly won't insult the non-criminal elements of a movement. Are you claiming ACORN is a movement?

Given that the statements above are just bait, I'm confused by your pretense of shock. It seems to me they got the exact reaction they were designed to get. I've got no problem biting. You're surprised by all this? really?

So being against ACORN disgusting acts is racism?

Of course not. Racist statements made from lone-wolfs at anti-ACORN rallies such as those that use racist slurs and sentiment against Obama.

ACORN gets $5 million a year in federal funding.
Churches get billions of dollars a year in federal funding.

By your standards everyone gets billions of dollars a year in federal funding right? Wait a minute... let's pull it all! Come on in hyteckit, the water's fine!

Both organizations are not reporting illegal acts to the federal government.
Both should have their federal funding pulled.

Everybody is not reporting illegal acts to the federal government. Everybody should have their federal funding pulled. Who'da thunk a discussion on ACORN would've brought you around so easily.

hyteckit · Sep 23, 2009, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Of course not. Statements like these are -

It is more than simply critical of the behavior of a church using facts to affirm an argument, but is short attention span theatre for hand-cymbal clapping monkeys. I'm all for investigations of pedophilia, extortion, laundering, fraud, and abuse both inside and outside the churches, but I certainly won't insult the non-criminal elements of a movement. Are you claiming ACORN is a movement?

Given that the statements above are just bait, I'm confused by your pretense of shock. It seems to me they got the exact reaction they were designed to get. I've got no problem biting. You're surprised by all this? really?

Of course not. Racist statements made from lone-wolfs at anti-ACORN rallies such as those that use racist slurs and sentiment against Obama.

By your standards everyone gets billions of dollars a year in federal funding right? Wait a minute... let's pull it all! Come on in hyteckit, the water's fine!

Everybody is not reporting illegal acts to the federal government. Everybody should have their federal funding pulled. Who'da thunk a discussion on ACORN would've brought you around so easily.

Nope. Still don't see Atheism.

I just see a few guys joking about Churches.

It's like saying those who joke about Pres. Obama is because of racism.

ebuddy · Sep 23, 2009, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Nope. Still don't see Atheism.

I just see a few guys joking about Churches.

It's like saying those who joke about Pres. Obama is because of racism.

Are you atheist or not?

hyteckit · Sep 23, 2009, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Are you atheist or not?

Are you white or not?

ebuddy · Sep 23, 2009, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Are you white or not?

I'm not white. Are you atheist?

hyteckit · Sep 23, 2009, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by ebuddy

I'm not white. Are you atheist?

There's already a thread about "belief" started by Shaddim.

I posted there.

Whether I'm atheist or not is irrelevant.

Christianity isn't the only religion. And not all religion have churches.

Christians making fun of Muslims or joke about Buddhist temples doesn't make those Christians "Atheism".

I think it's because you are a church-goer makes you sensitive to what you call "Atheism".
Just like Black folks are more sensitive to Racism, that some people don't see.

besson3c · Sep 23, 2009, 11:02 PM

I'm white.

ebuddy · Sep 24, 2009, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Yes, I'm an atheist.

I wanted to make sure I understood your question. When you asked if I was white, you were talking about racist white in context. I'm not the racist white. I'm just white. Are you one of those God-believing atheists? You act like I don't know who I'm addressing. And then you were like...

Yes, it was atheist proselytizing

I know. That's what I thought. When I saw a bunch of disrespect for the non-criminal elements of religion, I knew I was dealing with less than informed arguments and simple vitriol. See... the arguments against ACORN have all been focused on substance and the criminal element of it. That's why you're having such a difficult time here.

You see... when we talk about the failed proposals of health care reform, you want to talk about the post office and animals. When we talk about ACORN, you want to talk about religion. You understand how apparent this all is right?

olePigeon · Sep 24, 2009, 11:43 AM

I found out I was Jewish a few years ago.

ironknee · Sep 24, 2009, 04:31 PM

Our Church came unarmed (this time).

hyteckit · Sep 24, 2009, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by ebuddy

I wanted to make sure I understood your question. When you asked if I was white, you were talking about racist white in context. I'm not the racist white. I'm just white. Are you one of those God-believing atheists? You act like I don't know who I'm addressing. And then you were like...

I know. That's what I thought. When I saw a bunch of disrespect for the non-criminal elements of religion, I knew I was dealing with less than informed arguments and simple vitriol. See... the arguments against ACORN have all been focused on substance and the criminal element of it. That's why you're having such a difficult time here.

You see... when we talk about the failed proposals of health care reform, you want to talk about the post office and animals. When we talk about ACORN, you want to talk about religion. You understand how apparent this all is right?

WTF?

You don't know if you are white?

Were you not born white?

You are not white in context?

besson3c · Sep 24, 2009, 04:44 PM

I think we need a poll thread named "are you white?"

olePigeon · Sep 24, 2009, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I think we need a poll thread named "are you white?"

Make the available options:

Yes
I'm an atheist

hyteckit · Sep 24, 2009, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Make the available options:

Yes
I'm an atheist

Haha..

But this thread is about ACORN.

Why do you not like ACORN?
1. Cause I'm White
2. Cause I'm an Atheist

hyteckit · Sep 24, 2009, 05:09 PM

Obama is black Jesus and ACORN is his church

ironknee · Sep 26, 2009, 09:04 PM

Our Church's God is in HD!

Our Church is not gay.

stupendousman · Sep 27, 2009, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Obama is black Jesus and ACORN is his church

Jesus...errr...OBAMA loves the little children, all the children of the world...

"He said red, yellow, black or white/All are equal in his sight. Barack Hussein Obama.”

HAHAHA

It's so ironic that conservatives joke about Obama being the black Jesus, and left-wing nutjobs apparently DO believe it. You can't make this stuff up.

Sad.

besson3c · Sep 27, 2009, 01:50 AM

Why did you have to go and make this thread serious by saying something that is not sarcastic hyteckit?

Gee-Man · Sep 28, 2009, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

It's so ironic that conservatives joke about Obama being the black Jesus, and left-wing nutjobs apparently DO believe it. You can't make this stuff up.

Sad.

ironknee · Sep 28, 2009, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by stupendousman

It's so ironic that conservatives joke about Obama being the black Jesus, and left-wing nutjobs apparently DO believe it. You can't make this stuff up.

Sad.

frankly, i think it's the other way around. yes there are a lot of people who thinks he's great but not really black jesus... jesus was swedish of course.

i mean i've never seen a poster that said obama is jesus or words to that end but i've seen a few signs at the tea party saying obama is not my god...

i do think a lot of conservatives actually believe obama is the anti-christ... popular, world leader etc and sign of the end times!!! coming soon....

Our CuRcH is CoOl!

stupendousman · Sep 29, 2009, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by ironknee

frankly, i think it's the other way around. yes there are a lot of people who thinks he's great but not really black jesus... jesus was swedish of course.

I quoted the lyrics to a song school children were forced to sing at a school presentation that caused quite an uproar last week. The teacher took a religious song normally sung at Church Sunday School and replaced the name "Jesus" with "Barrack Hussein Obama". The rest of the program included shouting his name in praise and highlighting his good works.

I'm not making that up, and I don't think the teacher in question did it with an ounce of sarcasm.

ironknee · Sep 29, 2009, 01:24 PM

^^ that's wrong because religion shouldn't be in schools to begin with... anyone have the video link?

BadKosh · Sep 29, 2009, 02:03 PM

The school is complaining because they didn't give permissin to show it to the world. I guess they really wanted to hide the results of this first test of kiddie propaganda.

Chongo · Sep 29, 2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

^^ that's wrong because religion shouldn't be in schools to begin with... anyone have the video link?

YouTube - (No background music) School kids taught to praise Obama
from Jesus loves the little children
Black and yellow, red and white
They're all precious in His sight

from Mmm Mmm Mmm, BHO
He said red, yellow, black or white
All are equal in his sight

another video
YouTube - Yet another Obama indoctrination video of kids from Sand Hill Elementary School in Asheville, NC
I love this one. The Prayer TO Obama

hyteckit · Sep 29, 2009, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

YouTube - (No background music) School kids taught to praise Obama
from Jesus loves the little children
Black and yellow, red and white
They're all precious in His sight

from Mmm Mmm Mmm, BHO
He said red, yellow, black or white
All are equal in his sight

another video
YouTube - Yet another Obama indoctrination video of kids from Sand Hill Elementary School in Asheville, NC
I love this one. The Prayer TO Obama

Nothing wrong with prayer at school.

They should replace the pledge of allegiance with the Obama song.

olePigeon · Sep 29, 2009, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

YouTube - (No background music) School kids taught to praise Obama
YouTube - Yet another Obama indoctrination video of kids from Sand Hill Elementary School in Asheville, NC
I love this one. Prayer TO Obama

Arkansas, Ohio, Kansas, Pennsylvania, and Virginia teach religion in the Science classroom. Several other states require stickers on science text books promoting creationism.

Despite the U.S. Supreme Court ruling that teaching intelligent design in public school science classrooms is in direct violation of the 1st Amendment, many of the those states still require text books that promote intelligent design; just under a different name.

Chongo · Sep 29, 2009, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Nothing wrong with prayer at school.

They should replace the pledge of allegiance with the Obama song.

He has his own channel too. I bet more people watch it than TBN