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TETENAL · Jul 2, 2005, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

How do you figure?

No mixed-mode.

Resale value will stay the same. Used 68k Macs sold for a lot of money long after the introduction of PPC and so will PPC after Intel.

TETENAL · Jul 2, 2005, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by d.fine

There's a 5 second difference between a 1.5GHz G4 and a 3.5GHz Intel, I'd say hooray to the G4 ! PowerBook still stands strong in my eyes.

If you compare it to the Intel processor doing emulation, then yes.

goMac · Jul 2, 2005, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

I think Adobe is happy to see Apple port to x86. They will be able to use many common pieces of software and optimize for a common CPU.

They also already have the Pentium optimized code ready. All they have to do is move it into their Mac version.

mitchell_pgh · Jul 2, 2005, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

They also already have the Pentium optimized code ready. All they have to do is move it into their Mac version.

That's easy to say.

goMac · Jul 2, 2005, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

That's easy to say.

It's easy to move. SSE is a processor language that is not OS dependent.

The Godfather · Jul 2, 2005, 11:10 PM

The x86 assembly interfacing with Win32 C functions is different from the x86 assembly interfacing with Cocoa functions. MAYBE the math part of the assembly can be copy-pasted from the Windows version, but the interfacing part has to be custom coded.

goMac · Jul 3, 2005, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

The x86 assembly interfacing with Win32 C functions is different from the x86 assembly interfacing with Cocoa functions. MAYBE the math part of the assembly can be copy-pasted from the Windows version, but the interfacing part has to be custom coded.

I don't think there is a Cocoa interface or a Win32 interface. I don't code these things, but I would assume it's a flat C interface that the GCC compiler supports. There would be no reason to bound SSE to Win32 when Win32 is really mostly a GUI library.

CharlesS · Jul 3, 2005, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

I don't think there is a Cocoa interface or a Win32 interface. I don't code these things, but I would assume it's a flat C interface that the GCC compiler supports.

Uh, what? There obviously are Cocoa, Carbon, and Win32 APIs. And they will often be used with Objective-C or C++ to create an application's interface.

Or were you trying to say something else?

There would be no reason to bound SSE to Win32 when Win32 is really mostly a GUI library.

True about SSE, but what about the rest of the program? Hell, I had to make a few changes to Pacifist to get it to compile as an Intel binary without the compiler giving me a bunch of warnings, and it's a small app compared to the likes of Photoshop.

The Godfather · Jul 3, 2005, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Uh, what? There obviously are Cocoa, Carbon, and Win32 APIs. And they will often be used with Objective-C or C++ to create an application's interface.

Or were you trying to say something else?

He was trying to say that a programmer won't call Win32 or Cocoa libraries within an assembly function. There should be a C-language interface in between.

iNub · Jul 3, 2005, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Extra testing, extra packaging costs, extra support costs... there are plenty of reasons.

Considering that they already produce and support a version of Photoshop for x86 (Windows), I don't think testing and support will be all that much of an issue. And packaging? They'd just have to add a couple of words to the box.

And really, at 600 bucks a pop, I think they can afford a little of that cost.

goMac · Jul 3, 2005, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Uh, what? There obviously are Cocoa, Carbon, and Win32 APIs. And they will often be used with Objective-C or C++ to create an application's interface.

No no.

I was saying SSE code is not OS dependent, i.e. you don't write Cocoa or Win32 specific SSE code.

driven · Jul 3, 2005, 02:07 PM

I think the current PPC platform will be viable for at least 5 years from today. (Which is fine by me, since most of my machines are cycled out of service in no more than 4 years ...)

(The only exception seems to be the iMac DV SE 500 that my family still uses and won't part with.) <-- Go figure.

Superchicken · Jul 3, 2005, 07:16 PM

Yah I've thought of buying a friend an iMac slot loader, and they're all over priced for what you actually get. You could get a 700Mhz iBook that'd actually be able to do QE for around the same price... it's dumb. Cute machines though.

driven · Jul 3, 2005, 07:18 PM

The eMacs are decent values now. My sister bought one last year. She seems pretty thrilled with it. (She's a switcher!)

Mafia · Jul 3, 2005, 08:24 PM

i just want to know if my dual 1.8 ghz powermac is gonna last me all 4 years in college as a heavy computing user and a software engineering major. i have a dual 1.8, 2 gigs of ram, and a radeon x800xt but i am going to be pissed if i am forced to upgrade in a couple of years. i am thinking of upgrading powerbooks in about 2 years to a macintel but i wasn't planning on upgrading powermacs. bah /vent

The Godfather · Jul 3, 2005, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mafia

i just want to know if my dual 1.8 ghz powermac is gonna last me all 4 years in college as a heavy computing user and a software engineering major. i have a dual 1.8, 2 gigs of ram, and a radeon x800xt but i am going to be pissed if i am forced to upgrade in a couple of years. i am thinking of upgrading powerbooks in about 2 years to a macintel but i wasn't planning on upgrading powermacs. bah /vent

It depends on what you call an obsolete Mac. If you think that a G4 800 MHz is obsolete now, then you are definitely going to think that your 2G5 1.8 GHz will be obsolete in 2009.

Mafia · Jul 4, 2005, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

It depends on what you call an obsolete Mac. If you think that a G4 800 MHz is obsolete now, then you are definitely going to think that your 2G5 1.8 GHz will be obsolete in 2009.

true, well i will be upgrading in about 4 years, but the main thing i am concerned about is when games begin to be released as mac intel only.

driven · Jul 4, 2005, 12:34 PM

I doubt the game makers will do that for at least 4 years. Why shut out a majority of the market? I'm sure that the Mactel machines will reach critical mass faster than the PPC did over the motos, but 4 years is still a reasonable timeframe to expect the games to be released for PPC. (IMHO of course ... which means squat really.)

michaeljohn63 · Jul 4, 2005, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mafia

i just want to know if my dual 1.8 ghz powermac is gonna last me all 4 years in college as a heavy computing user and a software engineering major. i have a dual 1.8, 2 gigs of ram, and a radeon x800xt but i am going to be pissed if i am forced to upgrade in a couple of years. i am thinking of upgrading powerbooks in about 2 years to a macintel but i wasn't planning on upgrading powermacs. bah /vent

I don't remember exactly when Apple stopped shipping dual 1.8 Gig PowerMacs, but it seems to me it was last year some time, which would mean you've already had it for quite a while (I've had mine for more than a year and a half). Anyway, expecting any computer to be up to doing "heavy computer" use with then current software more than four years after purchasing it is not really reasonable. You won't be "forced" to upgrade in two years if you mean lack of support. Count on adequate support from Apple for at least 3 to 4 years AFTER the PowerMac is replaced by MacTel (which is currently scheduled to occur in about 18 months to two years). So, you should be good at a minimum for another 5 to 6 years (added to the time you've already been using your PowerMac).

I don't think software has yet to even catch up to the speed and power of the G5 PowerMacs. No one is really utilizing 64 bit capacity. All of my apps scream on my G5. I feel quite confident that I am going to get plenty of years of good use yet to come for my powermac. One thing I do plan to do to keep it as current as possible is to upgrade the video card right before the MacTel switch (out of concern that ATI or Nvidia will drop video card support for PPC PowerMacs once Apple no longer needs them as an OEM).

goMac · Jul 4, 2005, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Mafia

i just want to know if my dual 1.8 ghz powermac is gonna last me all 4 years in college as a heavy computing user and a software engineering major. i have a dual 1.8, 2 gigs of ram, and a radeon x800xt but i am going to be pissed if i am forced to upgrade in a couple of years. i am thinking of upgrading powerbooks in about 2 years to a macintel but i wasn't planning on upgrading powermacs. bah /vent

Why not? You'll still be able to compile for PowerPC no matter what. I would expect 5 years of industry support for PowerPC.

4 years is a bit long to expect out of a computer for computer engineering though. I usually run a 2 year upgrade cycle, alternating each year between a new PC or Mac desktop, and between a new Powerbook the other year. My Powerbook is coming right up on the time to be replaced when the Intel ones come out, so I'll hold until those arrive, and last year it was the PC desktop that got upgraded.