[mbryda]

Originally posted by dustrho:
Therefore, I should be buying a new laptop fairly soon, but I'm still not sure whether to get an Apple iBook or some PC laptop. I'm totally stumped. I was, at one point in time, all ready to make the jump to Apple. But then recently I've been thinking about going with an IBM ThinkPad. So, I'm totally stumped & confused as to what to get now.

I was a diehard Windows user until March '02 when I bought my iMac. Then I realized what everyone was saying. It is just a much better computer and way of doing things. I'll never go back to Windows. I only tolerate Windows because I make my living fixing it....

So, in the words of Nike - "Just Do It!". You'll be glad you did.

[dustrho]

Question...

If I were to buy an Apple iBook would it be better to buy it directly from Apple, or would it be just as good if I bought it from CompUSA (which is just a few blocks away from me)? I do want a bigger hard drive and more memory, so I probably would have to go through Apple. Just curious.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by dustrho:
Question...

If I were to buy an Apple iBook would it be better to buy it directly from Apple, or would it be just as good if I bought it from CompUSA (which is just a few blocks away from me)? I do want a bigger hard drive and more memory, so I probably would have to go through Apple. Just curious.

Apple offers the worst deal of any dealer and has a terrible return policy. Apple also rips you off on memory prices. Order from Amazon (30 day return policy) and get third party memory from www.crucial.com. You can't get the built to order larger HD, but do get piece of mind. Amazon will let you return the ibook even if you "aren't satisfied with its performance". No other vendor comes close to that....... and for some one unsure about Macs, 30 days to try it out is huge!

[dustrho]

Originally posted by Starry Night:
Apple offers the worst deal of any dealer and has a terrible return policy.

Can you possibly explain why Apple offers you the worst deal out of any dealer?

Originally posted by Starry Night:
Order from Amazon (30 day return policy) and get third party memory from www.crucial.com. You can't get the built to order larger HD, but do get piece of mind. Amazon will let you return the ibook even if you "aren't satisfied with its performance".

Amazon will let you return it within 30 days if you're not satisifed with its performance? Is that "no questions asked?" My biggest fear is receiving a laptop that is damaged in some way or another (damage to the casing, bad pixels, etc). Plus, I've ordered from Amazon before and they don't like using packing materials to protect fragile items (they use them but not enough IMO).

On another note... I stopped by the Apple store during my lunch break today and just stared at a 12" iBook. I'm just a confused PC user who's thinking about stepping into the Mac world.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by dustrho:
Can you possibly explain why Apple offers you the worst deal out of any dealer?



Amazon will let you return it within 30 days if you're not satisifed with its performance? Is that "no questions asked?" My biggest fear is receiving a laptop that is damaged in some way or another (damage to the casing, bad pixels, etc). Plus, I've ordered from Amazon before and they don't like using packing materials to protect fragile items (they use them but not enough IMO).

On another note... I stopped by the Apple store during my lunch break today and just stared at a 12" iBook. I'm just a confused PC user who's thinking about stepping into the Mac world.

I've purchased ibooks from Amazon, and before purchase, I quized them extensively about their computer return policy. They told me, in writing via email, that w/in 30 days you can return a defective computer for exchange or refund, they'll even pay the return shipping. On the subject of dead pixels, it takes a certain, mysterious number to qualify as defective. However, they told me I could return the ibook if I was "unsatisfied with its performance", I would receive a full refund sans the shipping costs to/from Amazon.

Essentially, if you have 3 dead pixels and think it may be in a grey area in terms of being defective or not, just tell them you're unsatisfied with the performance instead of claiming it to be defective.

Feel free to contact amazon to make sure they still have the "return if unsatisfied with performance" policy.

No other vendor comes close in regards to generous terms.

This was last summer, I bought one ibook from amazon (G3), it's logic board failed in two days. They were great about the exchange. Ordered a second ibook, it's logic board also failed w/in a week. Apple offered to repair it, Amazon took it back, no hassles whatsoever.

Why does Apple offer the worst deal? First, terrible return policy. Second, Amazon often offers free shipping, no tax, $100 coupon, free laptop bag, etc. MacMall and the like offer things like free memory (albeit low quality memory and they charge $40 to install it), free printer etc. With Apple, you pay sales tax, pay shipping, get a terrible return policy and nothing for free. Not paying tax can save you $100 depending where you live. As for Amazon's packing, don't worry, if it's damaged, they'll send a new one. In my case, buying from Amazon proved to be $250 cheaper than buying directly from Apple.

Compusa does give you a 14 day window to exchange a defective unit.

All in all, Amazon is second to none, imho and experience!

Btw, the G4 ibook is supposed to use the Powerbook logic board, thus should be fine.

[ChadC]

I switched to Apple about 5 years ago. At that time i was 15 and only used the computer for AOL, small webdesign(frontpage express), Visual Basic, and the Internet. I switched b/c my father bought an iMac(much to my chagrin) and after messing around with it for about a month he bought a second for my sister which never made it to her and came to me. Here I was with a brand new iMac DV on my desk. Since then I have used both Apple's and PC's about everyday in my life. Now, 20, in my second year of Architecture school, my computer use has expanded extremely. I currently own an original 500mhz IceBook(hand me down from my father) which is running Panther great, two problems are the battery is almost dead(as can be expected after 4 years of use), I also have an 867 mhz Quicksilver G4 which has been mine for almost a year and half and has not given me one problem since the day i got. My father has a 12" PB rev. A. He loves it, except for the fact that it gets a little hot, so to counteract that he usually sits it on some 1/4" rubber gaskets he bought which let a nice amount of air flow under the unit. So far he has not had any problems. Out of all of the Macs we have owned(my sister has a blueberry iBook) we are fortunate enough to have not come across the extreme problems that others have(knock on wood).

Although I love my Mac's and tell people how great they they are, , I also alert them of the bad things(in my opinion).

1) Service sucks out of Applecare, Either on the phone or at the Genius bar in the store. Not that its bad it just expensive as hell.

2) History of problems with hardware. This it not something that is uncommon with other computer manufacturers, as my brother is on his 4th mother board and 3rd HD in his Dell box. But it is something that is harder to fix with Apple computers, especially when out of warranty.

3) It's tough at times when you have to use a PC for certain things. For example, I dont have the time to learn any CAD or 3D software packages on the MAC b/c the status quo for Architecture schools is AutoCad and 3DS Max/Viz.

4) Virtual PC is horrible. The latest version I had(right before Microsoft bought it out) emulated a P2 MMX processor, or at least it said. It seemed more like a P1 to me.

The advantages you seem to already know, ease of use, fun people, etc, etc, etc.

I also have a small side business doing web design. For this I use a combination of GoLive and BBedit. I mainly set everything up with GoLive then add the dynamic content and CSS with BBedit. Switching from Frontpage Express to GoLive was actually a nice experience for me because Frontpage Express was horrible at that time. But in the case, I would say try some out and see what works.

All in all, I would say... if you have some want to buy the 12" PB, just do it, if you dont like it, sell it on eBay and if its soon enough(6 months old) you should be able to get almost full price which should give you enough money for the PC which will suite your needs!

Goodluck with whatever you choose!

-Chad

[edit] you might want to get a Mac, because your website doesn't work in Safari! The Menu's that are supposed to stay up when you roll over the tabs don't stay up. Check it out if you get a change. [/edit]

[cvibs]

I know this is an older thread and most everything has been addressed, but I would like to add a couple things (as a non-computer expert, typical user type person).

1) Service can be bad anywhere, whether it's a PC or Mac you're buying. Before purchasing our iBook in December, we had purchased a laptop from Dell in May 2003. The darn thing never worked right from day one, but it was like pulling teeth to get it fixed. Eventually, my husband (who knows a lot more about PC hardware than I do) determined it was a hardware problem with the processor and we decided to send it back. However, Dell kept trying to put us off to try to push us past the 30 days so we couldn't return it. He finally had to demand to speak to a supervisor to get a return number to send the darn thing back. I vowed to never do service with Dell again after that... it only took 7 more months of persuasion, however, to convince my PC husband that an Apple was right for me, and I'm glad we took that route.

2) We bought the 14" 1GHZ G4 iBook with 640mb memory. Thus far, I've run up to 6 programs simultaneously without any problems. I've also edited an hour and a half long miniDV movie using iMovie on it without any problems. The only glitch is that you can't get a DVD burner built into the iBook, so we had to get an external one. iDVD does not work with external DVD burners, so we had to use Toast to put the movie on the DVD, but had no problems with that either. I'm very pleased with the results.

3) We are actually networking the iBook with our Gateway desktop computer that is 5 years old (although recently the processor and hard drive were upgraded) seamlessly. The desktop runs Windows98, so I can't compare to XP, but we did network with my sister-in-law's laptop that runs XP once and again, no problems. It's actually very convenient having everything work so well together. I did buy Office for Mac, however, because I wanted my files to be able to be opened easily without conversion on any computer. I am very pleased with the Mac version of the Office products--I like them even better than the Windows versions!

I dont' know how much this helped, but it's a slightly different perspective than you've had so far. I can't offer any advice on web authoring because the little bit I do is with manual HTML coding--I don't use any programs. But everything else has been a pleasant surprise. It all just works! Good luck!

PS-I wanted to add that one of the things that made me go with the iBook over other options is battery life. Battery power on this is amazing... I know it's listed online as up to 6 hours, but with typical use, I get closer to 4.5 hours--compared to less than 2 hours on the Dell Inspiron we had for less than a month in the spring. And it's light! Even the 14" is quite portable. I would definitely recommend it!

[dustrho]

Thank you so much everyone for your input on my dilemma. My tax refund check should be coming soon, and I will be on my way out to buy a new notebook. At the moment I am leaning toward getting a new Apple 12" iBook. I'm just scared that I don't get a lemon though, because of all the problems I've read in this forum. I will keep everyone posted on what happens.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by dustrho:
Thank you so much everyone for your input on my dilemma. My tax refund check should be coming soon, and I will be on my way out to buy a new notebook. At the moment I am leaning toward getting a new Apple 12" iBook. I'm just scared that I don't get a lemon though, because of all the problems I've read in this forum. I will keep everyone posted on what happens.

Don't forget, the ibook "lemons" all have to do with logic boards on the G3 models. Apple has caught a lot of flack over it and is facing class action lawsuits. In fact Apple has extended the warranty on many of those G3's in an effort to make peace. Apple knows it's an issue. You'll be getting the G4 ibook which uses the powerbook logic board (or so I've read repeatedly on this board), you should be absolutely fine.

Apple has a fairly straight forward line of products. One nice thing about these Apple forums like Macnn, is that you can easily keep tabs on which models are reliable, and which aren't, making your Apple purchase a fairly secure one.

Buy from Amazon and don't worry!

You might also want to get a "Podium Pad" (roadtools.com?) for your new ibook, it's a very effective way of keeping your laptop running cool.

[dustrho]

I have come up with another question...

Apple computers all have one-button mice. So what do you use for an external mouse? I know Apple has their own external mouse, but I've seen several pictures of other people's computers here hooked up with a Windows-based mouse. So if you have say a 5-button mouse you still only get to use one of the buttons, correct? I'm just a little bit confused about that since I've never owned an Apple computer before.

[wataru]

Originally posted by dustrho:
I have come up with another question...

Apple computers all have one-button mice. So what do you use for an external mouse? I know Apple has their own external mouse, but I've seen several pictures of other people's computers here hooked up with a Windows-based mouse. So if you have say a 5-button mouse you still only get to use one of the buttons, correct? I'm just a little bit confused about that since I've never owned an Apple computer before.

There is no software limitation to the number of mouse buttons you can use. In other words, if you connect an HID-compliant USB mouse with a whole mess of buttons, they will work. I'm using a Macally 2 button + scroll wheel USB mouse right now.

Note that some manufacturers, like Kensington, also ship special driver software for their mice that give extra features and whatnot. But that extra software is not necessary; I dare you to find a USB mouse that doesn't work, plug & play, on OS X.

[dustrho]

Originally posted by wataru:
I dare you to find a USB mouse that doesn't work, plug & play, on OS X.

I first have to buy an Apple iBook in order to try this, but thanks for daring me to try it out.

[wataru]

Chicken, are ya?

bwaaak bwak bwak bwak



Seriously, though, I've never seen a USB mouse that didn't work in OS X.

[ChadC]

as wowok said... the mice always work. Curently i am using the second generation MicroShit 5 button that i got from my dad cuz my Logitech 3 button broke. Besides that I have used a bunch of other third party(mostly brand X) mice on friends computers that have always worked. I even had a friend whose mouse broke so he grabbed an old PS/2 mouse and got a PS/2 to USB convertor and even that worked.

[SpinCycle]

Originally posted by wowok1234:

If you are hesitant about getting a 12" PB the heat issue has been dealt with with the 1 Ghz models. For what it's worth, the 12" PB offers native monitor spanning and line-in, whereas the iBook can do neither, save for an Applescript hack to enable monitor spanning.

It is nice to know that the heat issue on the 12" PB has been taken care of. I bought one of those shortly after they came out and It was SO HOT, to the point you could not sit it on your lap (it burned). I sold it on eBay. Maybe it is time to get another.

The time it REALLY burned up was when it was playing iTunes. All my iBooks or PowerBooks I have ever had really heated up while doing that.

[SpinCycle]

Although, my iBook G3 14" i had was usually as cool as a cucumber. (a little warm when using iTunes)

[Kelvin]

One of the questions I have about using a Mac for mainstream purposes is how compatible is Safari or Mac IE for some of those sites that demand specific browsers or security? My 401k administrator's site demands certain browsers and they don't mention Safari. What about doing online taxes? Anyone do their taxes online at www.taxcut.com with their Mac? With Microsoft stopping development of IE for the Mac, and more and more websites designing their sites to work best with IE how do Mac users get around this?

Thanks

[wataru]

Originally posted by Kelvin:
One of the questions I have about using a Mac for mainstream purposes is how compatible is Safari or Mac IE for some of those sites that demand specific browsers or security? My 401k administrator's site demands certain browsers and they don't mention Safari. What about doing online taxes? Anyone do their taxes online at www.taxcut.com with their Mac? With Microsoft stopping development of IE for the Mac, and more and more websites designing their sites to work best with IE how do Mac users get around this?

Thanks

This is really a question for the Software forum, but I'll take a stab at it.

IE5 for Mac will still be useable into the forseeable future. Microsoft has said they will not be updating IE for Windows as a separate program anymore. That means that the next version of IE will come with Longhorn, in 2006 or 2007 or whatever. Mac IE should remain compatible with Win IE for as long as you need it to.

On the other hand, there is not all that much on the internet that isn't compatible with either Safari or Gecko-based browsers. I have never personally had to use anything that didn't work in Firefox (or Mozilla, Camino, etc.), and as of version 1.2 Safari works with all of my banks and whatnot. In other words, you will likely have no compatibility issues.

[Link]

Originally posted by Kelvin:
One of the questions I have about using a Mac for mainstream purposes is how compatible is Safari or Mac IE for some of those sites that demand specific browsers or security? My 401k administrator's site demands certain browsers and they don't mention Safari. What about doing online taxes? Anyone do their taxes online at www.taxcut.com with their Mac? With Microsoft stopping development of IE for the Mac, and more and more websites designing their sites to work best with IE how do Mac users get around this?

Thanks

There's a nifty little menu in safari that when you have enabled (requires an app but worth the effort), you can tell safari to tell sites it's windows IE 6 and not safari or mozilla :smirks:

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by Link:
There's a nifty little menu in safari that when you have enabled (requires an app but worth the effort), you can tell safari to tell sites it's windows IE 6 and not safari or mozilla :smirks:

What would that app be?

[wataru]

Originally posted by Starry Night:
What would that app be?

You don't actually need an app, but I don't remember the exact name of the preference to change, so I recommend any of the following: Safari Enhancer, Tinker Tool, or Cocktail.

[jade408]

1. Expose is the coolest thing ever....try using windows without it. You will hate life without it, and wonder how you survived before!
2. Apple laptops get awesome battery life
3. Setting up networking is really painless on a Mac, you just plug it in (or connect to the wireless network
4. Although Panther made it a lot easier to browse PC's and Macs via NEtwork Neighborhood/The Network button, it doesn't always work flawlessly.
5. In general web browsing is great with safari, but once in a blue moon I see minor issues (pop up calendars on about 1% of websites do not work, some online games are windows only, I hate that when I press tab in Safari it skips over the items with a a select one button with arrows .... does anyone know a work around?)
6. You don't need the command line unless you want it
7. The printer menu is way different than all of the ones I encountered in windows when changing the settings, and it wasn't obvious to me how it works.
8. Page setup in Microsoft Office is very different, in the same way the print menu is
9. Look closely at the save dialog, and utilize the little triangle next to the file name (trust me on this one!)
10. Crashes are rare, and note typically serious, a log out can useually solve most problems
11. Utilize the sleep mode, there is hardly a need to ever turn your computer off
12. Multitasking is far superior on a Mac....real-life hyperthreading, but some things run slower (like window resizing...but how much do you really care out window resizing!)
13. ilife is really fun and well intergrated.
14. Think logically, not in Windows logic. Everything is a lot easier that way!
15. Using a mac ia a lot more fun than using windows. At the end of the day you LIKE using your computer, which is something I haven't said about using a computer since the early 90s.


Enjoy your new ibook!



And my personal reccommendation for all potential switchers: do your research and see if an Apple will really work for you, it saves you a lot of future disappointment. I find using apple's to be a really pleasurable expereience, but like any product their are some quirks. Be willing to live with the limitations of whatever platform you choose.

[wataru]

Originally posted by jade408:
I hate that when I press tab in Safari it skips over the items with a a select one button with arrows .... does anyone know a work around?)

Do you mean pop-up lists? Turn on full keyboard access in the Universal Access prefpane.

12. Multitasking is far superior on a Mac....real-life hyperthreading, but some things run slower (like window resizing...but how much do you really care out window resizing!)

Hyperthreading is a special feature of Intel CPUs. You're talking about just "threading." And that has nothing to do with why window resizing is slow.

[jade408]

Originally posted by wataru:
Do you mean pop-up lists? Turn on full keyboard access in the Universal Access prefpane.

Hyperthreading is a special feature of Intel CPUs. You're talking about just "threading." And that has nothing to do with why window resizing is slow.

Yeah hyperthreading is the closest aproximation to threading on a PC. Multi-tasking works better when doing intensive things. But in general window resizing is slower on a Mac. 2 unrelated thoughts, but sometimes people judge speed of computer by how fast the windows move. Just a small detail that typically helps a PC user compare performance and clock speed, which tends to be important to a lot of people.

[fastback]

Delete this post.

[driven]

Originally posted by wataru:

Hyperthreading is a special feature of Intel CPUs. You're talking about just "threading." And that has nothing to do with why window resizing is slow.

As is demonstrated by the fact that window resizing for iTunes on Windows is just as slow as it is on a mac. :-)

[dustrho]

Guess what, I'm back in the hunt for a new laptop, and this time I am 100% sure of buying my first Mac notebook. However, I'm debating between the black Macbook and the 15" Macbook Pro. I like both a lot, but I can't justify spending the additional $1k on the MBP just for the 256mb video card. The only application I would be very much concerned with running on a MB would be Adobe Photoshop, which I use a lot. Does that run well on a MB? I've read that it loads pretty slowly on them, but once it's loaded it works fairly well (is that true?).

Lastly, regardless of which I purchase, I would almost certainly upgrade the memory to 3 or 4gb, so where is the best place to buy that (cheapest and decent brand name)?

Thanks everyone!

[mduell]

Photoshop CS3 runs just as well on the MB as it does on the MBP (minor clockrate and memory differences aside). The downside is the low resolution display on the MB, but the 15" MBP doesn't help you much there.

[0157988944]

Sounds like you might want a MB with an external screen. Photoshop doesn't use the graphics card at all, instaead using the processor.

[iMan G5]

I think this is the oldest thread I have seen dug. Oh well. the Macbook would be good for you. Find the latest Performance Upgrades, Firewire and USB Hard Drives, SATA, Memory, Laptop Battery, and more at OWC is good for ram. I have also bought at Omni Technologies .. Loading Store ..

[dustrho]

Originally Posted by iMan G5 

I think this is the oldest thread I have seen dug.

The thread is old because I'm the one that started it years ago, was about to buy a Mac, but unfortunately I didn't. However, this time is different because I'm definitely buying either the MB or MBP... just not sure which one I'm going to get though.

[MaximusNL]

Well just read the old replies and change ibook/powerbook to macbook/macbook pro

I can recommend a Mac! I switched 4 years ago to a powermac g5 and later bought an extra powerbook 15". Just loved it. As an Accountancy Student I need full compatibility with Windows and it works like a charm.

Recently I sold the set and bought me a new iMac 2.4 C2D with 3gb ram and a MacBook with 1GB ram and a SuperDrive. Lovely machines and really fast I know one thing for sure: the mac is going to be my only pc's at home.

[ankurcd]

Originally Posted by dustrho 

The thread is old because I'm the one that started it years ago, was about to buy a Mac, but unfortunately I didn't. However, this time is different because I'm definitely buying either the MB or MBP... just not sure which one I'm going to get though.

... the base level Macbook is the best deal as both RAM and HDD is upgradable as per your liking ... later on at a cheaper rate...

... the only downside is the combo-drive ... it plays DVDs but only writes CDs... if you ever wanna write a DVD ... and external superdrive is much cheaper as well... so a baselevel MB with extra RAM and an external superdrive will still be a "killer" value...

Geez... you have been sitting on the fence since 2004??? I have been doing so for a month and already it is unbearable... just waiting for MWSF Jan 15th keynote to make the switch...

do let us know when you do make the purchase...

[dustrho]

Originally Posted by MaximusNL 

Well just read the old replies and change ibook/powerbook to macbook/macbook pro.

Just tried changing the title in the first post of this thread, but it doesn't appear to have changed at all. With this post I changed the title accordingly. Lets hope that helps things.

[dustrho]

I bought a Macbook Pro today from Apple's online store. I cannot wait for this to arrive (scheduled for delivery tomorrow!), and I couldn't be happier with the purchase. Here's the specs of what I bought (all stock)...

2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
15" / 1440 x 900 resolution
2GB memory
160GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics with 256MB SDRAM

[0157988944]

Sounds great. Pretty much the exact machine I want

[wataru]

Originally Posted by dustrho 

The thread is old because I'm the one that started it years ago,

Great. But 3 years later, no one cares about whether you're going to buy an iBook or not. Zombie threads are annoying; please just start a new thread next time.

[dustrho]

Originally Posted by wataru 

Great. But 3 years later, no one cares about whether you're going to buy an iBook or not. Zombie threads are annoying; please just start a new thread next time.

Yes sir boss. Mods, do what the boss says and lock this thread down.

[ankurcd]

Originally Posted by dustrho 

I bought a Macbook Pro today from Apple's online store. I cannot wait for this to arrive (scheduled for delivery tomorrow!), and I couldn't be happier with the purchase. Here's the specs of what I bought (all stock)...

2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
15" / 1440 x 900 resolution
2GB memory
160GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics with 256MB SDRAM

it took 3 years ... but Apple did win you over finally... and the specs are sweet... enjoy... and have a Merry Christmas!