[greenamp]

Everyone has come across it. The PC user who hates Macintosh for no real reason at all. They cite old issues and harp about their experiences with a Mac in 1st grade when they were 6. They bring up the same arguments that never were really all that true or specific to a Mac.

So why do people simply dislike Macs for no reason at all? This question has baffled me for along time. Is personal computing like a religion? Do they despise it just b/c it's different? Do they hate it b/c they can't have it for whatever reason?

This isn't a fanboi thread at all. I'm just curious why people dislike the platform for no real reason at all. It seems like a physiological preference in many situation which is really baffling.

Ideas?

[The Godfather]

For the same reason there are Mac users who hate PCs and dog owners who hate cats: pure ignorance.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

For the same reason there are Mac users that hate PCs: pure ignorance.

That still begs the question, why? Is it a social thing?

[ghporter]

It's indeed social. The other computer platform camp is very much "other," so it feels alien and "different." This difference discourages your average Joe from looking into the other side to see what the fuss is about.

I have ALWAYS found Macs fascinating (and before that previous Apple computers too), but because of financial constraints I had to settle for PCs. I got quite good at them, but never thought the Mac was bad or that Mac users were dumb.

On the other hand, a LOT of users on both sides feel the need to defend their platform choice by denigrating users of the other platform, denigrating the designs and capabilities of the other platform, and overall calling them stupid and genetically deficient. That's just childish.

[MaxPower2k3]

I think it's just part of human nature to want to defend your decisions, whether that decision is what god you believe in, or what computer you use. That may be combined with ignorance of the other sides of the arguments, but ignorance itself isn't what causes it, I don't think.

[JoshuaZ]

See, but I love dogs AND cats.

Though I hate having to clean spyware and adware off a co-workers PC every month.

[bigbird]

Social psychology. It's about connecting with a group. One way to define a group is to decide who's not in it.

[Rolling Bones]

"Why do alot of PC users hate Macs?"

Why do a lot of Mac users hate PCs?

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by Rolling Bones

"Why do alot of PC users hate Macs?"

Why do a lot of Mac users hate PCs?

Because they tell us how much better their computers are, but yet constantly complain that it doesn`t work right.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Rolling Bones

"Why do alot of PC users hate Macs?"

Why do a lot of Mac users hate PCs?

I think a big difference is that Mac users typically have tangible reasons for choosing the Mac platform over the windows platform. I for one choose Mac b/c for what I need a computer for OS X is superior to Windows, and I appreciate the higher-end product design of Apple products.

I've noticed a lot from the Windows side however, those who simply hate Macs and seem to have no real reason beyond "I just hate it so there."

[meelk]

mac users tend to tell every pc user "how often PCs bluescreen/have spyware/viruses/trojans" etc, when knowledgeable PC users simply dont have these issues, its grating.
Sure, it does happen to the majority of the aol sheep, but honestly, people like me dont give a crap, and dont need to hear about it from the users of a different OS.

[DigitalEl]

The Godfather nailed it. Pure ignorance. And it DOES go both ways.

Fanboyism is retarded, no matter what side you're on.

[ReggieX]

Complete ignorance and petty fanboyism.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

For the same reason there are Mac users who hate PCs and dog owners who hate cats: pure ignorance.

Eh, one could argue that the reason people dislike Windows is a valid one. Especially if you have to use one at work daily.

Originally Posted by meelk

mac users tend to tell every pc user "how often PCs bluescreen/have spyware/viruses/trojans" etc, when knowledgeable PC users simply dont have these issues, its grating.

Yes it does. NOT as often, but it does indeed happen.

[meelk]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Eh, one could argue that the reason people dislike Windows is a valid one. Especially if you have to use one at work daily.

Yes it does. NOT as often, but it does indeed happen.

Funny, my friends and I are all problem free.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by greenamp

I think a big difference is that Mac users typically have tangible reasons for choosing the Mac platform over the windows platform.

The lack of applications and games is not a tangible reason?

[Kevin]

meelk you don't have to run two or three different virus/adware etc applications to keep crap off your computer?

If not, you are the FIRST person I've ran into that uses Windows that does not.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

sometimes mac owners like the ones here act very arrogant and stuffy about how much better they are compared to PCs

[The Godfather]

^One virus scanner and one adware scanner is enough for my PC health. That and reserving the porn browsing to the Mac.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear

sometimes mac owners like the ones here act very arrogant and stuffy about how much better they are compared to PCs

You see that with any high end equipment. Go into a Porsche site, they will be stuffy and arrogant about the car they drive.

[meelk]

Originally Posted by Kevin

meelk you don't have to run two or three different virus/adware etc applications to keep crap off your computer?

If not, you are the FIRST person I've ran into that uses Windows that does not.

no, absolutely not. I'm behind a router, and I browse with firefox. I'm not an idiot who is going to say yes to any popup that might get by the firefox popup blocker. My email is set to read as plain text (as everyones should). I'm not a fool who will run random crap from all over the net without knowing precisely what it is.

All in all, a few VERY simple precautions. I use no virus scanner or adware program on a day to day basis. A couple of times a year I'll scan with something I download then uninstall. I clear cookies when the urge hits me. (if you want to call the occasional naughty cookie evil I suppose I cant retort that, although it would be a bit extreme).
edit: I keep up to date on any MS patches. You can allow the computer to do this itself, I do it manually.

simply put: common sense wins.

[Dakar]

Same reason we hate the French.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Kevin

meelk you don't have to run two or three different virus/adware etc applications to keep crap off your computer?

If not, you are the FIRST person I've ran into that uses Windows that does not.

No, he’s not; you ran to me before meelk.

My Windows scenario is very similar to meelk’s: in all the time I’ve used PC’s I’ve been hit by exactly one virus, and that was only because I made the mistake of plugging my ‘puter directly into the DSL modem at a friend’s place, rather than keep it behind the router I had at home. When I used my Windows machine regularly (i.e., pre-Mac), I did scan it with Avast!, etc., more or less daily, just to be on the safe side; but apart from an occasional text file with random numbers in it, nothing was ever found.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kevin

meelk you don't have to run two or three different virus/adware etc applications to keep crap off your computer?
If not, you are the FIRST person I've ran into that uses Windows that does not.

Seconded.

I have yet to find a spyware scanner that catches it all. Usually, it takes 2 or three combined.

-t

[turtle777]

hampstornated !

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

See, but I love dogs AND cats.

That doesn't say anything.

Chinese love dogs and cats. In the pan.

-t

[demibob]

i like macs and pc's. I dont mind mac users complaining about pc's because they will almost have certianly used them at some point in there lives. But some pc users who have never even seen a mac but still call them overpriced rubbish just annoyes me.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by demibob

i like macs and pc's.

Pc's what? /apostrophe police

[lothar56]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

The lack of applications and games is not a tangible reason?

I'm not sure exactly what important applications don't have Mac versions. I really don't think there is enough of a gap there to use it as a point. And any good game has a Mac version, except for the occasional one, like halflife. But Halo, America's Army, UT, etc, etc all have Mac versions. But who games on a Mac anyway? That's what a console's for.
My roommates are kind of half in/half out of this category. And I'm kind of the Mac user that makes fun of their Windows. I take jabs when he can't get a second hard drive to work, or when his mouse and keyboard have to be plugged in when the computer starts up, even in XP Pro. Or my other roommate, who wouldn't buy a Mac because they're too expensive, then paid $200 more than my iBook cost for an eMachines laptop that turns off every time the powersaver clocks down the processor. Or sometimes just randomly.
I was talking to a friend of mine who wishes she'd bought a Mac when coming to college. She said before she came here all she knew of Macs were the crappy computers they had at school that broke and froze all the time, so she got a Dell. Then she got here and realized people actually do use them and they're actually good.

[euchomai]

Minorities have always been oppressed. We have joined the plight of the middle class white man and his desire for the coolest computer. Therefore: We are hated.

[lothar56]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Pc's what? /apostrophe police

And here's the ticket: http://www.write101.com/W.Tips184.htm

[ayasinsk]

There are reasons. I have been a widnows user all my life, howerver within a few years started to think outside the box and finally last week I bought my first mac: intel-based mac mini. Anyways back to the point....

Here are the reasons why I think many PC users hate macs:

Mac does not even come close to how many programs are available for PC. Practicly every single program out there is available for PC.

It is much easier to upgrade/build your own PC. Mac on the other hand is much harder to modify.

The biggest reason is due to the market share. There is only company which makes macs, Apple. There are numorous companies out there which make PCs and components for them as well as software. The reason why macs are so unpopular becase Apple is a very gready corporation. Rather then selling their development rights to outher companies they want all the money for themselfs.

So what I'm trying to get at is the reason people hate macs is because since 95% of the population use windows, they don't understand why you want to be with the other 5% and use macs.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by meelk

mac users tend to tell every pc user "how often PCs bluescreen/have spyware/viruses/trojans" etc, when knowledgeable PC users simply dont have these issues, its grating.
Sure, it does happen to the majority of the aol sheep, but honestly, people like me dont give a crap, and dont need to hear about it from the users of a different OS.

The issue is not whether you have these issues or not, but it is that you use an OS that allows these things to easily run amuck. We live in a day and age that necessitates secure operating systems and secure computing practices, and Windows is the only OS simply not cutting it right now. You can babble on about marketshare, but there are definitely design weaknesses in the Windows security model that any knowledge computer user should not be defending. At this point, I think it's pretty safe to call many of these weaknesses facts.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by meelk

no, absolutely not. I'm behind a router, and I browse with firefox. I'm not an idiot who is going to say yes to any popup that might get by the firefox popup blocker. My email is set to read as plain text (as everyones should). I'm not a fool who will run random crap from all over the net without knowing precisely what it is.

All in all, a few VERY simple precautions. I use no virus scanner or adware program on a day to day basis. A couple of times a year I'll scan with something I download then uninstall. I clear cookies when the urge hits me. (if you want to call the occasional naughty cookie evil I suppose I cant retort that, although it would be a bit extreme).
edit: I keep up to date on any MS patches. You can allow the computer to do this itself, I do it manually.

simply put: common sense wins.

Why are you apologizing for Windows here? When you buy a car, would it be acceptable for the instructions to say "well, you can't use your windshield wipers on Sunday, and you can only stay in 3rd gear for 60 seconds".

If these precautions are what is necessary to remain secure, Microsoft should push Firefox in user's faces, and do all the other things you suggest by default. The average user should NOT have to know all this stuff to use the basic functionality of their computer safely.

The basis of user centered design is that the design conforms to the USER, not the other way. Unless you think it is perfectly natural and acceptable to do what you do, the Windows security model is not only out-of-date, but it is also poorly designed.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

meelk you don't have to run two or three different virus/adware etc applications to keep crap off your computer?

If not, you are the FIRST person I've ran into that uses Windows that does not.

I don't. I've been using PCs for 4 years, since I sold my iMac.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ayasinsk

There are reasons. I have been a widnows user all my life, howerver within a few years started to think outside the box and finally last week I bought my first mac: intel-based mac mini. Anyways back to the point....

Here are the reasons why I think many PC users hate macs:

Mac does not even come close to how many programs are available for PC. Practicly every single program out there is available for PC.

It is much easier to upgrade/build your own PC. Mac on the other hand is much harder to modify.

The biggest reason is due to the market share. There is only company which makes macs, Apple. There are numorous companies out there which make PCs and components for them as well as software. The reason why macs are so unpopular becase Apple is a very gready corporation. Rather then selling their development rights to outher companies they want all the money for themselfs.

So what I'm trying to get at is the reason people hate macs is because since 95% of the population use windows, they don't understand why you want to be with the other 5% and use macs.

95% of the population don't know or care about upgrading their computer, nor do these other reasons apply to them at all - only to a small subset of this population.

To answer the original question, i think people are simply afraid of what they don't know, and need to justify their own knowledge and decisions so that they remain comfortable, since it seems to matter to many people what others think.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

I don't. I've been using PCs for 4 years, since I sold my iMac.

The fact you are posting here would indicate that your knowledge of computers is above average.


THIS is the point. It is very difficult for geeks like us to be empathetic to less knowledgeable users.

[moodymonster]

dongle envy

or these two:

Originally Posted by MaxPower2k3

I think it's just part of human nature to want to defend your decisions, whether that decision is what god you believe in, or what computer you use. That may be combined with ignorance of the other sides of the arguments, but ignorance itself isn't what causes it, I don't think.

Originally Posted by bigbird

Social psychology. It's about connecting with a group. One way to define a group is to decide who's not in it.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Why are you apologizing for Windows here? When you buy a car, would it be acceptable for the instructions to say "well, you can't use your windshield wipers on Sunday, and you can only stay in 3rd gear for 60 seconds".

Oh please. A better comparison would be, a car's manual advises you to buckle your seatbelt before driving. And they even make you put that on yourself! (Even the old ones with the automatic shoulder-belt made you buckle the lap belt.)

Not saying there isn't room for improvement. If OSX's user base ever rises above negligibility, you'll discover that the same is true for Macs.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

Oh please. A better comparison would be, a car's manual advises you to buckle your seatbelt before driving. And they even make you put that on yourself! (Even the old ones with the automatic shoulder-belt made you buckle the lap belt.)

Not saying there isn't room for improvement. If OSX's user base ever rises above negligibility, you'll discover that the same is true for Macs.

But seatbelts are shipped in all cars, there are laws dictating seatbelt usage, and seltbelts have become just a part of everyday life such that they are simply part of the learning curve of operating a car.

Download third party software and going through various gymnastics to secure a computer is not a natural part of the learning curve necessary to use an operating system, downloading updates provided by the OS vendor is reasonable, but not third-party stuff.

To Microsoft's credit, there is now a spyware removal tool. Don't know if it handles viruses (I don't think it does), but they should have put this thing out AGES ago.

As for your second comment, an OS X machine is still safe out-of-the-box. Most security exploits apply to services which are not enabled by default, and the other exploits don't prevent you from going online to download updates. Contrast Windows, where places in campuses you used to not even be able to stay online long enough to download the updates for a virgin install before getting infected with something. Pathetic.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by besson3c

The fact you are posting here would indicate that your knowledge of computers is above average.


THIS is the point. It is very difficult for geeks like us to be empathetic to less knowledgeable users.

I didn't have to know any programming languages or anything to secure my computer. I put it behind a router, which I configured using the manual. I installed Firefox. I turned on Automatic Updates, which Windows asks you to do upon install. I did install Norton AntiVirus I suppose, but honestly it's never found anything--it's more of an insurance policy.

I agree that it's a shame that PC hardware vendors don't do a better job of "foolproofing" the default Windows install and hardware config they include. At the same time, I'm glad that I have configuration options; I'd hate to be locked into a system preschool-style "for my own protection."

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Download third party software and going through various gymnastics to secure a computer is not a natural part of the learning curve necessary to use an operating system, downloading updates provided by the OS vendor is reasonable, but not third-party stuff.

To Microsoft's credit, there is now a spyware removal tool. Don't know if it handles viruses (I don't think it does), but they should have put this thing out AGES ago.

to all that.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

I didn't have to know any programming languages or anything to secure my computer. I put it behind a router, which I configured using the manual. I installed Firefox. I turned on Automatic Updates, which Windows asks you to do upon install. I did install Norton AntiVirus I suppose, but honestly it's never found anything--it's more of an insurance policy.

I agree that it's a shame that PC hardware vendors don't do a better job of "foolproofing" the default Windows install and hardware config they include. At the same time, I'm glad that I have configuration options; I'd hate to be locked into a system preschool-style "for my own protection."

In order for Windows to become secure, it needs a far better permissions model, it needs to scrap ActiveX from IE, it needs to stop allowing apps to bring down the Registry and all apps with it regardless of the level of permission, and it needs to ship in an air-tight state. The fact that *you* haven't experienced the worse of Windows doesn't change these facts, and I still expect any operating system to provide me with the tools to secure my own computer without requiring a complicated learning curve. The fact that IE still ships on machines in and of itself disqualifies Windows from being considered a secure operating system.

[ayasinsk]

Originally Posted by besson3c

95% of the population don't know or care about upgrading their computer, nor do these other reasons apply to them at all - only to a small subset of this population.

To answer the original question, i think people are simply afraid of what they don't know, and need to justify their own knowledge and decisions so that they remain comfortable, since it seems to matter to many people what others think.

I don't think 95% of population are ignorant. And I don't think that all PC users are idiots, there are plenty of mac users who are morons as well. The reason because Macs are not popular and never will be with the Aplle's mentality because there are no programs out there for them. For instance I use AutoCAD at work and I work on different projects at home. The only thing I can do is install an emulator on a mac to emulate windows in order to use that program. Sure I enjoy my new mac and learning unix right now and thinking of looking in to Cocoa, but I would never get rid of my PC because it is like a window to the world.

Mac users who say that Microsoft rips people of and ect. are just hippocrates. Apple does the same thing. In stead of giving the development rights to other companies so more innovation can take place and price will go down, which will also result in increase of software development and macs becoming more available Apple wants to make as much money as possible and want to be the sole manufacturers.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by besson3c

In order for Windows to become secure, it needs a far better permissions model, it needs to scrap ActiveX from IE, it needs to stop allowing apps to bring down the Registry and all apps with it regardless of the level of permission, and it needs to ship in an air-tight state. The fact that *you* haven't experienced the worse of Windows doesn't change these facts, and I still expect any operating system to provide me with the tools to secure my own computer without requiring a complicated learning curve. The fact that IE still ships on machines in and of itself disqualifies Windows from being considered a secure operating system.

Obviously your mind is made up.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by meelk

Funny, my friends and I are all problem free.

My parents switched because of that. They had a choice: either loose their e-mail database (which is six or seven years old by now) or switch. The computer had to be re-installed twice already, despite the best efforts (firewall + anti-virus software + latest patches).

A positive side-effect is that my father finally realizes his chaos on his harddrive. He told me: where are all my documents? (Answer: in the same (dis)order as before )

[mikochu]

I was a hardcore PC user for most of my life. Yeah, I made my share of snide remarks about Macs over the years. I recently did a computer overhaul, jumping into the Apple scene head first. I haven't looked back. Well, I do use a PC at work, and I do boot up my PC ocassionally to grab files... But other than that, I'm either on my Power Mac or iBook... People still ask me to help them with their PC..and I have to admit I've become a snob when it comes to operating systems...

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ayasinsk

I don't think 95% of population are ignorant. And I don't think that all PC users are idiots, there are plenty of mac users who are morons as well. The reason because Macs are not popular and never will be with the Aplle's mentality because there are no programs out there for them. For instance I use AutoCAD at work and I work on different projects at home. The only thing I can do is install an emulator on a mac to emulate windows in order to use that program. Sure I enjoy my new mac and learning unix right now and thinking of looking in to Cocoa, but I would never get rid of my PC because it is like a window to the world.

Mac users who say that Microsoft rips people of and ect. are just hippocrates. Apple does the same thing. In stead of giving the development rights to other companies so more innovation can take place and price will go down, which will also result in increase of software development and macs becoming more available Apple wants to make as much money as possible and want to be the sole manufacturers.

I didn't say that 95% of the population are ignorant. I said that your theories don't apply to 95% of the population, but to a small subset of it.

It all depends on what you use your machine for. As far as I'm concerned, there are no server apps for Windows. There are several open source tools written on Unix and ported to Windows, but there are far more open source advocates on Linux and Unix than Windows. Therefore, I see absolutely no reason to run Windows as a server unless I'm enticed by what Microsoft-based programming languages offer.

As far as I'm concerned, if I want to edit video, using Final Cut Pro is a very pragmatic solution. Ditto for Logic in the field of music. There are many of scientific apps that are Unix/Mac centric.

I'm not sure I follow your line of reasoning in your second paragraph. Apple controls the hardware but uses parts from the same vendors PC manufacturers do. I don't see how this stifles innovation. OS X is closed-source, but so is Windows, so I don't understand your assertions of hypocrisy.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

Obviously your mind is made up.

I'd like to think my mind is made up based on fundamental facts, but you are welcome to refute them. Your empirical "I've been able to stay safe" does not attack these fundamental facts.

[smacintush]

I don't really think about why PC people hate Macs. After all it doesn't affect me in the least.