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jchen · Jul 23, 2002, 04:55 AM

Machine:
Power Macintosh Desktop G3/266
160MB PC66 RAM
4GB IDE
Integrated 4MB Rage IIc

Goal:
To have 10.2 Running at a reasonable speed

Basically, my dad has an older machine (listed above) that he would like to have running OS 10.2 as the rest of the machines in his lab and office will be doing so (universal OS, convenience, etc). He's assigned me to help him out, now, the easiest thing would obviously be to sell this and pick up a refurbished G4. However, because he works at the University, he can't really dispose of this machine for actual money, it simply goes to someone else (or the surplus bin) so it would end up costing him more. Upgrading is really what we're aiming at.

I'm hoping to spend around $350 (maybe 400 max), if you guys could help me out, that'd be great.

Processor:
450Mhz G4 ZIF's are at OWC for $199 (but it'll run at 466 i think). THe 550Mhz is $269 (but it will run at 566 inside the beige G3).

Does the 100 justify the $70 price difference? Note that both will still be on a 66Mhz bus.

RAM:
He has 160MB of RAM. I'm thinking he'll probably need 256 or as much as he can I suppose, could I transfer a 64MB PC133 module from his dual G4 (he's going to be purchasing another 256 for it, 320 right now, so 512 will be plenty and the 64 could definently help out the older mac)? If not, what about PC100 modules? PC100 RAM is really cheap these days so I'm thinking I could probably spend $30-40 and be done with the RAM requirements.

Hard Drive:
My dad has a 30GB and 20GB in his dual G4 right now, we'll probably just take the slave 20GB and slap it in. Would the built in IDE bus be too much of a bottleneck? (the 20GB is a Maxtor DiamondMax 5400RPM drive) If so, what type of IDE card should i purchase?

Graphics:
Obviously the Rage IIc would never work, Quartz Extreme needs about 32MB VRAM to work properly if I recall correctly. Radeon 7000 PCI was what I was considering, however, how much will it lack on QE compared to a regular Radeon PCI? Are there any other PCI cards with 32MB that are fairly cheap? The computer won't be used for gaming or anything like that so 3D does not matter, just Q# performance.

If there's anything else I'm missing, please include. Also, what would be my top priority here in case that the upgrades combined would cost too much?

[ 07-23-2002, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: jchen ]

Ken_F2 · Jul 23, 2002, 05:18 AM

jchen,

That's $350 upgrade plan is not going to work if he wants a usable OSX system...at least not if he is accustomed to OS9 speed.

A G3 500 upgrade will run $220, although you really need a G4 for OSX. A G4 400 upgrade will run $200, while a G4 550 upgrade will cost closer to $260-$275. If you could get the performance of a PowerMac G4 550, that wouldn't be all bad, but unfortunately, there is a lot more to system performance than the processor. The G3/266 uses obsolete 66MHz SDRAM, and that will hold back any modern processor.

For one, Quartz Extreme requires AGP graphics in the latest builds; Quartz Extreme is unsupported on PCI boards. As your Mac is PCI-only, I don't see how the Radeon 7000 will help you.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />He has 160MB of RAM. I'm thinking he'll probably need 256 or as much as he can I suppose, could I transfer a 64MB PC133 module from his dual G4 (he's going to be purchasing another 256 for it, 320 right now, so 512 will be plenty and the 64 could definently help out the older mac)? If not, what about PC100 modules? PC100 RAM is really cheap these days so I'm thinking I could probably spend $30-40 and be done with the RAM requirements. <hr /></blockquote>He's want at least 256Mb RAM, although regardless of whether you put in PC133 or PC100, it will still run at sloooooow PC66 speed. His best bet is to stick to OS9, and/or look to the purchase of a new, used, or reconditioned G4 Mac.

D'Espice · Jul 23, 2002, 02:07 PM

OK, here we go. I'd say the $70 more are not worth it. Take the 450 MHz G4 and you'll be fine. There won't be much of a difference between the 550 MHz and the 450 MHz G4 Upgrade.

And you'll have to get a new graphics card, QuartzExtreme won't be supported but OS X needs a fast graphics card to feel snappy. So even if QuartzExtreme won't be supported, the Radeon will improve performance big time.

RAM: SDRAM is compatible, you can buy cheap PC100 or PC133 RAM for this computer. Get as much as you can, but first check out how much your Mac supports: <a href="http://www.apple-history.com" target="_blank">www.apple-history.com</a>

Nevertheless, Ken_F2 is right. It would be much better to sell the old computer and get a used PowerMac G4/400 AGP or even PowerMac G4/350 AGP off eBay. Those would be much faster than an upgraded Beige G3.

[ 07-23-2002, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: D'Espice ]

milhous · Jul 23, 2002, 02:20 PM

It would be a very nice 9 machine when upgraded. But 9 is officially dead. Oh well, your choice.

MilkmanDan · Jul 23, 2002, 03:14 PM

You could always buy a nice B&W G3 computer and later upgrade it to a G4 if you really wanted. My neighbors are running a build of 10.2 on a B&W G3 and it runs quite well. Then again you could always buy a low end G4 computer. Quite frankly a 266 G3 really can't cut it these days, as said before you need AGP and a videocard with 32 MB of RAM.

jchen · Jul 23, 2002, 04:00 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jchen:

However, because he works at the University, he can't really dispose of this machine for actual money, it simply goes to someone else (or the surplus bin) so it would end up costing him more. Upgrading is really what we're aiming at.
<hr /></blockquote>

Ken_F2 · Jul 23, 2002, 05:37 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />However, because he works at the University, he can't really dispose of this machine for actual money, it simply goes to someone else (or the surplus bin) so it would end up costing him more. Upgrading is really what we're aiming at<hr /></blockquote>And we're basically saying that upgrading that old machine is throwing money out the window.

It will cost more to upgrade that system...than it will to buy a used or reconditioned G4 Mac, regardless of whether he gets anything for it or not. That G3/266 system probably isn't worth more than $50 anyway.

[ 07-24-2002, 06:31 AM: Message edited by: Ken_F2 ]

D'Espice · Jul 24, 2002, 06:27 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ken_F2:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />However, because he works at the University, he can't really dispose of this machine for actual money, it simply goes to someone else (or the surplus bin) so it would end up costing him more. Upgrading is really what we're aiming at<hr /></blockquote>And we're basically saying that upgrading that old machine is throwing money out the window.

It will cost more to upgrade that system...that it will to buy a used or reconditioned G4 Mac, regardless of whether he gets anything for it or not. That G3/266 system probably isn't worth more than $50 anyway.<hr /></blockquote>Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say, too. It's just not worth it.