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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Just upgraded my Cube with Geforce2 - a mixed bag...

Just upgraded my Cube with Geforce2 - a mixed bag...
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Morpheus
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Jul 10, 2002, 02:11 PM
 
Got it from mac-pro today. (For the initiated on this subject: it's the *special* Cube card with *huge* heatsink <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

Installation was very easy and it booted with the nVidia 2.4 drivers in OS 9.2.2 without a problem. However trying to install the 3.0 drivers showed me a "unsupported machine" error, forcing me to install them with TomeViewer. Unlike what I've read from others, Apple System Profiler reports it correctly with 32 MB Video Ram. Card Rom version is 1055 and card revision is 178. What is yours?

Of course I've done some (2D) benchmarking with my stock Rage 128 Pro before...that's what I get now:

Norton System Info (overall rating graphics) went from 1075 to 1413.

Kram (window test)in OS9 from 24 to 22 seconds
Kram in OS X from 92 to 87 seconds

Scrolling a pdf in OS9 from 1.57 min to 1.52 min
the same in OSX from 4.58 min to 4.58 min (no typo)

some other scrolling tests showed the same time with both cards.

Infamous window resizing in OS X is faster though. Genie is smoother too.

However it's a bit disappointing for me. You feel some things in 2D are a bit faster but really not much. Today I also played around with some G4 800Mhz, Radeon 7500 and I can tell you: *That's* 2D power! (At least compared to my setup.)

In 3D games the card is great of course. That's what you can read everywhere and it's true. The Rage has no chance to compete.

Next issue is DVD: It has been stated many times that the Geforce2 is not as good as the Ati Radeon concerning DVD playback. But I never heard that it is also inferior to the playback of the Rage 128 Pro. Unfortunately this is the case. Way inferior! In OS 9, every little processor cycle outside the DVD player throws you out of sync! Feeling couldn't be choppier. Much worse than before. In OS X it's ok but you feel right from the start that it's much more CPU based.

Well, is the card worth the 149$? For 3D yes, for 2D at (the moment) no. I bought it for Jaguar, so I hope everything will change then. (Hope we won't see a "Quartz Extreme not supported on this machine" error then... <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" /> )

cheers
     
Sword of Orion
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Jul 11, 2002, 12:26 AM
 
Interesting that you got a special Cube video card, that's not a Cube card in the photo on their web site, nor is there any mention of two versions of the card. Did you have to ask for it special, or did they just send it to you?
     
Graymalkin
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Jul 11, 2002, 12:33 AM
 
For the 2D acceleration the GeForce is little better than a Rage 128, there's only so much acceleration a video card can actually do. With your tests having such a little difference it just means you're getting as much 2D acceleration as is possible out of your card. If you've got a monitor that supports high resolutions (even if only at 60Hz) switch the resolution to the highest your monitor will support and run the benchmarks with the different cards if you're so inclined. The extra speed of the GeForce's memory will get you some pretty high scores compared to the Rage.

The genie and window resize effects speed up not due to some acceleration in the resize calculation or anything but because the GeForce can impliment more changes to the display bugger than the Rage will ever be able to. Of course 3D is macho just like it should be.

My friend just got a GF2MX in his PM as I said in another thread. He's pretty happy with it as far as I know. He came from a Rage 128/16MB just like you did. After you've got plenty of memory in your system I think the video card is one of the more important OSX hardware upgrades people ought to think about. This will be even more true when Jaguar is released.
2GHz 15" MacBook Pro, 120GB 5400rpm HD, 2GB RAM
     
Morpheus  (op)
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Jul 11, 2002, 03:59 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sword of Orion:
<strong>Interesting that you got a special Cube video card, that's not a Cube card in the photo on their web site, nor is there any mention of two versions of the card. Did you have to ask for it special, or did they just send it to you?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">It has "Cube Card" engraved on it and a signature from Steve Jobs!!! It's heatsink is pure silver and it is so big that you can't see the Cube now!!!! Understand?
I have seen countless "Cube Cards" - they all look the same, like normal cards....so I believe there was *never* a "Cube Card".
     
Morpheus  (op)
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Jul 11, 2002, 05:33 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Graymalkin:
<strong> With your tests having such a little difference it just means you're getting as much 2D acceleration as is possible out of your card..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I hope you're wrong on that one! At least the GeForce is one generation ahead of the Rage128. I've done some testing with the 2.4 drivers too and speeds compared to the 3.0 drivers were mostly equal, so I think it's more a Rage-128-with-latest-and -greatest-drivers vs. Geforce2-with-early-drivers issue. Does anyone know if there were major speed improvements from the nVidia 1.0 to the 2.4 drivers?
     
driven
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Jul 11, 2002, 10:46 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Morpheus:
<strong>
However it's a bit disappointing for me. You feel some things in 2D are a bit faster but really not much. Today I also played around with some G4 800Mhz, Radeon 7500 and I can tell you: *That's* 2D power! (At least compared to my setup.)
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Might this not have something to do with the 800Mhz clock speed in comparison with your 450-500Mhz Cube?
- MacBook Air M2 16GB / 512GB
- MacBook Pro 16" i9 2.4Ghz 32GB / 1TB
- MacBook Pro 15" i7 2.9Ghz 16GB / 512GB
- iMac i5 3.2Ghz 1TB
- G4 Cube 500Mhz / Shelf display unit / Museum display
     
Milo Waye
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Jul 11, 2002, 11:26 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sword of Orion:
<strong>Interesting that you got a special Cube video card, that's not a Cube card in the photo on their web site, nor is there any mention of two versions of the card. Did you have to ask for it special, or did they just send it to you?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">the nvidia card I bought from macresq looks like the one mac-pro shows.
lord lord lord, what's a concerned cubeowner do? the thing fits. although the heatsink's smaller than the one on the un-upgraded ATI card in my Cube, i'm not sure that's automatically bad? what ta do?
     
CyberGreg
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Jul 11, 2002, 11:34 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Morpheus:
<strong>Got it from mac-pro today. (For the initiated on this subject: it's the *special* Cube card with *huge* heatsink <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

snip...

Next issue is DVD: It has been stated many times that the Geforce2 is not as good as the Ati Radeon concerning DVD playback. But I never heard that it is also inferior to the playback of the Rage 128 Pro. Unfortunately this is the case. Way inferior! In OS 9, every little processor cycle outside the DVD player throws you out of sync! Feeling couldn't be choppier. Much worse than before. In OS X it's ok but you feel right from the start that it's much more CPU based.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">That sucks! I was not aware of this.... Does anyone know if the GeForce 3 plays DVD's properly?

Thanks
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TSea
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Jul 11, 2002, 04:46 PM
 
Actually, I've noticed no difference on DVD playback on my upgraded G4 400.
I have the Apple Twinview card, upgraded from the Rage Pro 128. Mind you,
when I watch a DVD I watch in fullscreen mode, and don't try to get "work"
done.
     
TSea
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Jul 11, 2002, 04:47 PM
 
I should add that this is on an Apple LCD 17.
     
Morpheus  (op)
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Jul 11, 2002, 05:57 PM
 
I'm on an Apple 17" TFT too. It's not that I would like to work along watching DVD but e. g. you start a DVD in normal mode, now move your mouse pointer around and even outside of the playing window it's not smooth at all. Try to move the window a bit gives you a lag of about one second and so on. It's definitely worse than with the Rage.

<small>[ 07-11-2002, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Morpheus ]</small>
     
Dan Szwarc
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Jul 12, 2002, 07:31 AM
 
I believe the only thing special about so-called "cube-cards" is that they are short enough to fit in the cube. It is not a special configuration or layout. Just that it fits.
Dan
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Sword of Orion
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Jul 12, 2002, 10:27 PM
 
The GeForce2 MX card that I just bought has the heat sink glued on 90 degrees from the proper orientation for a Cube, and it's the same as every picture I've seen of cards that were pulled from towers. That's the reason I believe that there has to be a specific "Cube Card". I just wish someone who bought a Cube with the GeForce2 MX as original equipment would post a picture of it! Or at least post the dimensions (tower heat sink is 40mm X 40mm) and orientation of the heat sink. That would settle this once and for all...

(degree symbol didn't display properly - edited to spell it out)

<small>[ 07-12-2002, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Sword of Orion ]</small>
     
   
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