Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Wonder Woman

Wonder Woman (Page 2)
Thread Tools
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 4, 2017, 09:24 PM
 
It is a very good movie, just not as earth-shattering-life-changing as people are claiming. I'm not really sure where this is going to end up in the annals of comic hero history. Better than Superman '78? F no. People that weren't alive then need to know that Superman was an event, not just some silly flick that came and went. It was a Donner film, a Williams score, based on one of the most beloved super heroes of all time, and they nailed it. I think if they look another look at the script, or perhaps put in a scene or two that was probably deleted which would explain a few things, it would have been better. That said, third act was a complete mess.

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 12:21 AM
 
By far the best DC movie since the Nolan Batman movies.
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 01:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
By far the best DC movie since the Nolan Batman movies.
That's not saying much

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 07:11 AM
 
After thinking it over I've relaxed my views on WW. It was fine, I'd even say the first half was wonderful (heh) but that last half was pretty awful. So, first half 4/5 stars, last half 1.5/5, with an average of 2.5 (because the last means more than the first, to me). That still isn't a pass, IMO, since a movie needs a 3 to get approval, but if a person is really into DC comics' films, it's worth a watch and definitely not the worst to come out in the last several years. Better than BvS theatrical, not as good as MoS, just sort of in the middle.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 08:48 AM
 
What I liked about the movie pretty much centered around WW as a character, and not so much the movie's plot.

I liked how there was some mystery to WW herself, and the history of her people. We knew that her motivations were pure and naive, but didn't know exactly what sort of decisions she would make. Part of this was because there aren't really any overpowered female superhero characters to function as some sort of model, so as a character she was sort of fresh with a clean slate.

I hope there are many more strong female characters like her in movies to come. I think the strong male character archetype has been pretty worn.
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What I liked about the movie pretty much centered around WW as a character, and not so much the movie's plot.
That's part of the problem. TOO much was spent on her. Everyone else was "disposable".

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 12:09 PM
 
"That Superman movie really spent too much time on Superman. I really wanted to learn more about Jimmy Olsen's character growth."
- said no one ever



It's her movie, she's allowed to be the main character. I thought WW did a pretty good job with her origin and culture shock in the real world, and a decent job with Steve Trevor's motives/empathy too. The other Amazons were real people too. Steve's buddies didn't have much time but I liked all of them and their POV.

Absolutely they could have kept all this good character stuff and also tidied the ending (see my previous nitpicks).
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 12:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
That's part of the problem. TOO much was spent on her. Everyone else was "disposable".
It held my interest. There was never much depth to Lois Lane or Lex Luther either.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 12:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
"That Superman movie really spent too much time on Superman. I really wanted to learn more about Jimmy Olsen's character growth."
- said no one ever



It's her movie, she's allowed to be the main character. I thought WW did a pretty good job with her origin and culture shock in the real world, and a decent job with Steve Trevor's motives/empathy too. The other Amazons were real people too. Steve's buddies didn't have much time but I liked all of them and their POV.

Absolutely they could have kept all this good character stuff and also tidied the ending (see my previous nitpicks).


Do you think this movie would have been as strong with a male director, or do you think the female directing POV had a relevant impact on the results?
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 12:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Well made, but the third act was a mess.
Originally Posted by starman View Post
That said, third act was a complete mess.
So like...Dark Knight?

[EDIT] Fun (or not) idea: find a superhero movie in the last 15 years that didn't run 30 minutes too long and limp across the finish line.
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 12:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
"That Superman movie really spent too much time on Superman. I really wanted to learn more about Jimmy Olsen's character growth."
- said no one ever
Jimmy Olsen wasn't a major character. Lois Lane was. I felt that Steve Trevor was just "there".

Also, the whole "you promised you'd take me to the war" dialog was eyeroll-inducing. The War isn't being held at Wembley Stadium. There were dialog bits like that which made me want to rewrite some parts.

Also...
 

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 03:11 PM
 
On the contrary starman, I thought Steve...
 


Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
[Do you think this movie would have been as strong with a male director, or do you think the female directing POV had a relevant impact on the results?
The only way to compare is apples to apples, and the only other cases to compare it too are Catwoman and Elektra, so... I think a female director might have helped guide certain positive decisions, like costume and history... But I would have felt fine with Joss Whedon directing also.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
[EDIT] Fun (or not) idea: find a superhero movie in the last 15 years that didn't run 30 minutes too long and limp across the finish line.
GotG 1
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 06:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
[EDIT] Fun (or not) idea: find a superhero movie in the last 15 years that didn't run 30 minutes too long and limp across the finish line.
The Avengers
All three Captain America movies
GotG

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2017, 07:03 PM
 
 


Also, while Gal looked great, and the action scenes (the ones that weren't pure CGI-fests) were very good, I found her acting to be merely adequate. I don't mean this as a slam against her abilities, but she'd benefit greatly from some advanced acting classes.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 6, 2017, 03:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
The Avengers
All three Captain America movies
GotG
Original Iron Man.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 6, 2017, 08:30 AM
 
Some of the xmen movies were excellent too... first two, and first class?
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 6, 2017, 09:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
 
 
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 6, 2017, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Some of the xmen movies were excellent too... first two, and first class?
They are all good movies, but the original X-men is actually more than 15 years old and the second is close enough to that limit that I didn't bring it up anyway. First Class is fine but arguably did become a bit of mess at the end.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
ajprice
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 6, 2017, 03:34 PM
 
Star Trek, Jack Ryan, probably some other, now Wonder Woman. Chris Pine does like riding a bike doesn't he?

I liked the film, as said already, its better than other DC films, Nolan Batman excepted. When the credits came up at the end, Etta Candy - Lucy Davis was a surprise, she sort of looked familiar, but I couldn't place her watching the film. Dawn from The Office (UK)...


It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2017, 04:48 PM
 
OK, so....been thinking about No Man's Land

 

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2017, 09:54 PM
 
What scene were you watching?

 
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2017, 11:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
What scene were you watching?

 
 

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2017, 12:03 AM
 
Still haven't seen it. Plan was to see it Friday.

At the moment, it's not going to be showing. At least in the three theatres it's showing right now.

Is this computer ****ery as they rearrange screens for Transformers, or is it actually only getting a 20 day wide release?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2017, 04:28 AM
 
The drop-off has been intense, like most other superhero films.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2017, 05:18 AM
 
WW actually had less dropoff than most superhero movies, with 43% to second weekend and 30% to third (doesn't say what it is 30% of, but from math it seems to 30% of second weekend). It is now outpacing MoS and Suicide Squad.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdow...c&id=dcuni.htm

Perhaps the entire industry assumed a more traditional dropoff and are now out of screens to show something on. I know that Sixth Sense back in the day had a negative dropoff (as in, more people saw it the second weekend than the first, and more the third than the second) and it threw the entire planning for cinemas into disarray.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2017, 01:12 PM
 
Well, for the Thursday matinee, we're the only people who have bought tickets so far.


As an aside, gawd I heart reserved seating at movies.

ProTip: row D
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2017, 04:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
WW actually had less dropoff than most superhero movies, with 43% to second weekend and 30% to third (doesn't say what it is 30% of, but from math it seems to 30% of second weekend). It is now outpacing MoS and Suicide Squad.
I wasn't talking about just DC.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2017, 05:41 PM
 
Drop-off is actually better than all the Marvel movies I could think of to check, and only Avengers and Iron Man come close. Even generally well-regarded Logan has a worse drop-off. Now the opening weekend was far from great, so it isn't like it is going to be some sort of best of all time - even beating BvS might be hard - but there is some bounce here.

(Boxoffiicemojo is the source for all of the above, BTW).
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2017, 11:42 PM
 
They finally figured out the math and gave it screens for Friday.

Which is good, because that was ridiculous.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 27, 2017, 11:47 PM
 
Didn't see it until tonight.

Well, it was good for a DC movie I guess.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 28, 2017, 12:41 AM
 
I'm almost positive I got the censored ending, but I'm slightly doubting myself.

I distinctly remember thinking something was supposed to be happening to the skyline, but couldn't find it.

Looking at that GIF, it doesn't seem like it could be missed.
     
Brien
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southern California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 28, 2017, 02:02 AM
 
I'm wondering it if was changed, I saw it Sunday and don't recall seeing any smoke.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 28, 2017, 12:29 PM
 
So, I disliked the first act. Except for the painted stories, I felt it lacked imagination.

Well, they were quite imaginative in terms of new ways to have gratuitous panty shots.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 28, 2017, 02:34 PM
 
Related, I definitely give the movie props for the fight coordination. It didn't feel like wire-fu.

However, the high frame rate shots were distracting.


Speaking of fight coordination, they showed the trailer for La Femme Atomic Blonde.

Sold.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 28, 2017, 03:41 PM
 
I'm scanning your posts for criticism of Gal Gadot.

Tread lightly.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 28, 2017, 03:44 PM
 
Speaking of which, does this seem like utter bullcrap to the rest of y'all?

Countless fans came the Israeli-born actress' defense last week after news broke that she was paid just $300,000 for the summer blockbuster — but it turns out that sum isn't all that uncommon for a relatively unknown actor's first shot at a superhero flick.

Chris Evans was paid the same rate for his first "Captain America" film in 2011 and Chris Hemsworth reportedly raked in even less for his debut as Thor the same year.
Considering that these films are nearly guaranteed to be a financial (if not critical) success, how are these actors getting paid so little? "Little" being a relative term, of course.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 28, 2017, 03:58 PM
 
If that's what Evans and Helmsworth got paid, I am ok with it. She is an unknown.

Plus, she got the same amount for batman v Superman, where basically "all she did was one fight scene and check her email."
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 28, 2017, 05:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I'm scanning your posts for criticism of Gal Gadot.

Tread lightly.
Nothing to criticize.

She rocked.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 29, 2017, 03:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Considering that these films are nearly guaranteed to be a financial (if not critical) success, how are these actors getting paid so little? "Little" being a relative term, of course.
In the case of Marvel, they sign contracts for multiple movies with an escalating pay scale, so the Chrises et al rake it in on the later movies.

I'm kind of OK with it. If the movie does poorly, then the mostly unknown leads got paid 300 grand for a single shoot plus some promotion and are free to do something else while the studio moves on to another idea. If the movie does well, the studio makes money and is incentivised to make a sequel where the actors are paid more, while still keeping costs sane. The only case where Marvel was forced to re-up was with Robert Downey Jr. He reportedly used that chance to not only get rich but to also improve the contracts for some of his co-stars, as he thought that they didn't get paid enough.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 1, 2017, 02:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
The only case where Marvel was forced to re-up was with Robert Downey Jr. He reportedly used that chance to not only get rich but to also improve the contracts for some of his co-stars, as he thought that they didn't get paid enough.
Yet another reason to love the guy.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 2, 2017, 10:45 AM
 
I think it is partly that he feels obligated to pay it forward (he was essentially unemployable after coming out of jail, and is back partly because directors and other actors stood up for him) and partly because he wanted to keep the Avengers around and successful because it meant more paydays for him.

This is all rumors, but the story is that Marvel only signed up Chris Evans (Captain America) for all the Avengers movies. RDJ and Chris Hemsworth (Thor) each got 3+1 deals, 3 single movies and 1 Avengers, while Scarlett Johanssen only had a single picture deal. Jeremy Renner and Mark Ruffalo both signed on for multi-picture deals, but it was always clear that they would be only part of the ensemble, never in solo movies, and neither was a superstar that opens movies anyway. Both the Chrises and ScarJo got $500k for Avengers, while Renner and Ruffalo reportedly got less. RDJ had this deal structured so he got a percent of the gross. As you may have noticed, Avengers did rather well - RDJ got north of $50 million for that movie alone. This did not pass unnoticed among the rest of the cast or the industry.

Marvel's thinking was that only Cap is essential to an Avengers movie - everyone else can be replaced. If Hemsworth didn't want to do it, well...I guess Thor is busy in Asgard right now, sorry about that, here is Vision instead. This also put a nice ceiling on the salary requests, as Marvel could say with some logic that they didn't want to pay anyone more than what they paid Cap, and his salary was set in stone already. The success of the Iron Man singles kinda killed that idea. Every market research Marvel and Disney could make made it clear that an Avengers 2 without RDJ would not sell. Marvel needed RDJ more than he needed them, and he knew it.

At the same time, Hemsworth had grown to be a big star, and apparently hated the diet and exercise regimen he had to do to be Thor. Do that for small time money when other studios wanted to pay him $5 million to show up? Why bother? ScarJo also demanded more money than Marvel was willing to offer.

At this point RDJ apparently pushed for better deals for his costars. He did not sign until Hemsworth and ScarJo were on board, and supposedly even pushed for Marvel to renegotiate some of the deals for actors they had already locked up. Just to add insult to injury, Joss Whedon (who clearly knew what he was doing) turned in a script that simply would not work without Tony Stark. Not Iron Man - Tony Stark. Marvel couldn't even put someone else in that armor.

So Marvel folded. The details of all of this are unknown, and while none of the others got anywhere near the payday RDJ got, they all seem happy now, and several of the stars have signed up for extra movies without much noise. At the same time the call sheet for Avengers 3 and 4 is absolutely bonkers, so Marvel clearly isn't going out of business because of actor salaries.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 2, 2017, 10:59 AM
 
And back on topic, WW has now beaten BvS on domestic gross and even has a few well-regarded Marvel singles behind it. Not too shabby.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 2, 2017, 11:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
BvS
I'm going out on a limb here...

God, I hated this sooooooo much.
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 3, 2017, 12:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
And back on topic, WW has now beaten BvS on domestic gross and even has a few well-regarded Marvel singles behind it. Not too shabby.
Adjusted for inflation?

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 3, 2017, 12:10 PM
 
Multiply BvS by 1.02.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 3, 2017, 12:50 PM
 
I only looked a couple of years back, and no, I did not adjust for inflation. at least Dr Strange and Captain America: Winter Soldier are behind it by a large enough margin that a few percent from inflation cannot possibly make up for it.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 3, 2017, 01:27 PM
 
Was Dr. Strange any good?
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 3, 2017, 02:00 PM
 
Sorry, but WW is behind Winter Solder WITHOUT adjusting.

Winter Soldier WW: $714k
Wonder Woman WW: $708k

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 3, 2017, 02:16 PM
 
He said domestic gross.

$346MM for WW, $259MM for WS.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:14 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,