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passmaster16 · Oct 9, 2003, 10:34 PM

When Jaguar was released, there was a debate as to if there was any advantage to performing a clean install vs just upgrading. What is the concensus this year? How many people are going to start from scratch? Are there really any benefits as far as speed, stability, etc? You'll have to excuse my ignorance. My Windows background usually points me in the direction of clean installs. That in the fact there is just something about getting a new OS and starting fresh, maybe I'm just excessive with that. Anyway I know that X would probably take the upgrade just fine with no ill effects, but I'd like your input anyway...

fulmer · Oct 9, 2003, 10:40 PM

I usually do format-installs for the major os x releases. It's just a good time to wipe out accumulated junk and programs. Kind of like the annual spring cleaning.

Lecynique · Oct 9, 2003, 11:34 PM

Just did it, respond really faster, as fast as the good old OS9

nobitacu · Oct 10, 2003, 12:13 AM

I am, it's always better to do a clean install.

Ming

Gul Banana · Oct 10, 2003, 12:15 AM

I never do clean installs.. but I do do archive installs. I'm not particularly into the idea of wiping my hard drive for no good reason. An archive install reinstalls the OS and applications from scratch, without touching your data or network settings.

TheIceMan · Oct 10, 2003, 12:20 AM

I like starting over on a clean slate so naturally I'll do a clean install.

mchladek · Oct 10, 2003, 12:31 AM

I'm also going to do a clean install. I probably wouldn't but I still have OS 9 lingering around. Now that I have no reason to keep it around (besides nostalgia) I'm going to be doing a reformat and clean install.

alphasubzero949 · Oct 10, 2003, 12:41 AM

It's time to freshen my iBooks.

Liquidity X · Oct 10, 2003, 01:21 AM

I dd a fresh install. it was time after all these years, last formate was with 10.1 I think. Did a HFS+ Journaled, install was deff quicker than 10.2 and I am loving every second of panther. And yes I will be getting a legal copy, i just could wait 3 more weeks of a hickupy 10.2 setup.

Andrew 8808 · Oct 10, 2003, 01:24 AM

Yup, I'll be doing a clean install. I kept a partition for Classic, when I installed 10.2, and I've used it a handful of times since...so that'll be getting cleared too

Truepop · Oct 10, 2003, 01:52 AM

I will be formatting my hard drives and iPod.

soul searching · Oct 10, 2003, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by fulmer:
I usually do format-installs for the major os x releases. It's just a good time to wipe out accumulated junk and programs. Kind of like the annual spring cleaning.

Same here. Although I'll use one of my other partitions for the fresh install and format my Jaguar partition a few weeks thereafter.

songoku912 · Oct 10, 2003, 02:19 AM

I'll be doing a clean install.

k2director · Oct 10, 2003, 02:48 AM

Clean. I love the feeling of a new start.

Apfhex · Oct 10, 2003, 02:59 AM

I'm definitely doing an Archive & Install but without keeping my present Home folder. When I installed Jaguar, I kept my Home folder, and now after a long time for some reason it's really messed up (can't burn CDs! And it has a harder time than normal reading CDs too - these problems aren't there under a "clean" user account I created).

I would go for a reformat as well, but I simply can't backup all of my data.

RayX · Oct 10, 2003, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by Apfhex:
I would go for a reformat as well, but I simply can't backup all of my data.

So when the drive(s) holding your data die, you've lost your data, in other words.

Apfhex · Oct 10, 2003, 04:53 AM

Originally posted by RayX:
So when the drive(s) holding your data die, you've lost your data, in other words.

You're point? I'm well aware of what can happen. I do backup my important files.

Simon · Oct 10, 2003, 05:19 AM

Yep. I'll do a clean install too.

I'll backup with CCC to my external FW drive and then I'll start from scratch with a fresh Panther.

There's nothing like getting rid of all that old useless junk lying around in some hidden corner.

Gankdawg · Oct 10, 2003, 09:25 AM

No doubt about it. I will use CCC to backup 10.2 to another drive, wipe the drive 10.2 was, install 10.3, and then start installing apps.

MusicalTone · Oct 10, 2003, 10:13 AM

Hi, this will be my first upgrade (OSX user since March 02).

What do people actually mean by a "clean install" and a "archive & install"?

I am running Jaguar on a TiBook that also came with OS9 preinstalled.

I would like to upgrade to Panther but not have to reinstall all my apps and data - and I would like to trash OS9 as I have never had the need for it.

Could someone give me a step by step summary of what would be the best way of going about this?

Or is it all really easy to follow on the install disk?

xi_hyperon · Oct 10, 2003, 10:23 AM

I will keep my 10.2 on partition 1 for awhile and do a clean install of Panther on partition 2. I have an off-topic question about this: Does it make a difference if one is regularly booting off of the second partition as opposed to the first? Can this cause potential problems down the road?

Eriamjh · Oct 10, 2003, 11:50 AM

Clean.

cSurfr · Oct 10, 2003, 12:10 PM

i've always found that a fresh install runs faster. maybe that's just me but hey, new powerbook deserves a new install of a great os.

cs

redJag · Oct 10, 2003, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by MusicalTone:
Hi, this will be my first upgrade (OSX user since March 02).

What do people actually mean by a "clean install" and a "archive & install"?

Clean install basically means completely format the harddrive (lose everything) and install the new OS. Archive and install is an option when upgrading that saves your old system folder and installs the new OS.

You can simply choose to upgrade your OS, it is the default method so you don't have to do anything special.

malvolio · Oct 10, 2003, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
[BII have an off-topic question about this: Does it make a difference if one is regularly booting off of the second partition as opposed to the first? Can this cause potential problems down the road? [/B]

No problems, unless you have one of those older machines that need the OS on the first 8 GB of space.
Clean installation for me, after backing up to my external Firewire hard drive.

mattyd · Oct 10, 2003, 12:28 PM

i look forward to my yearly "zero all data" and clean install.

its sort of like how clean your teeth feel after going to the dentist.

IamBob · Oct 10, 2003, 12:58 PM

My 10.1 partition will get wiped to make room for Panther, Yaaaay! Panther, Yaaaaay! Bye 10.1, Yaaaaay!

And when 10.4 comes out 10.2 will see its way off my drive...

Yaaaaay!

alligator · Oct 10, 2003, 01:34 PM

Not to ask a stupid question, but for those of us who just switched, how does one do a clean install?

I just got a G5 about a month and a half ago, installed a bunch of apps, and saved a lot of files. Should I be doing a clean install? If so, how?

NeXTLoop · Oct 10, 2003, 01:46 PM

I was one of those who had problems trying to upgrade 10.1 to 10.2. That convinced me that there are just too many 10's of thousands of files in X that get updated to trust the installer to catch every one. I'm not saying that everyone had problems, because I know a lot of people didn't. However, for me personally, I think there's just too much variation from one person's computer to another to trust a single installer to upgrade everything 100% perfectly.

So needless to say, I'm one of those who believes in a format and install for every major (10.0, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3) release.

MusicalTone · Oct 10, 2003, 02:47 PM

For a clean install then, could I use an iPod to backup all my data and then transfer it back?

Preciousss · Oct 10, 2003, 03:13 PM

The one time I did an archive and install, the neat freak in me couldn't stand having an "extra" System folder around. I don't think it's possible to delete this, right?

Luckily, at the time, I hadn't owned my PowerBook for long, so there wasn't much I lost by doing a clean install without any backup.

Still don't have a backup drive. But I am the happy owner of a 40GB iPod. So, I'm probably doing a clean install. I don't mind reinstalling all my extra apps (not that many of them).

Side note: does M$ Office only give you a finite number of installs? I heard somewhere that it was 5. Also, just thought that I won't have access to my PowerBook bundled software with a clean install (mostly use GraphicConverter and the Omni apps). Hmmm.

businezguy · Oct 10, 2003, 03:42 PM

I will definately be doing a clean install. When I tried the very early beta of Panther, I didn't notice any difference in performance. I didn't do a clean install, so I suspect that is why.

ae86_16v · Oct 10, 2003, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by IamBob:
My 10.1 partition will get wiped to make room for Panther, Yaaaay! Panther, Yaaaaay! Bye 10.1, Yaaaaay!

And when 10.4 comes out 10.2 will see its way off my drive...

Yaaaaay!

Why do you keep one old version around?

But is there any technical reason why to do a clean install?!?! Everyone seems to be just doing it. . .

alligator · Oct 10, 2003, 05:54 PM

HOW DO YOU DO A CLEAN INSTALL????????

Doesn't anyone read my posts?

Judge_Fire · Oct 10, 2003, 06:37 PM

To do a clean install, you boot from the CD, then look in the Installer's menus for 'Disk Utility'. (Assuming it hasn't changed for 10.3)

If you go ahead with this, you will lose all data on the disk.

I prefer a Clean install, using the 'write zeroes' option, as it actually maps out any new bad sectors and adds them to the disk's index of 'em.

Slow as molasses, but weirdly satisfying,

J

MadBrowser · Oct 10, 2003, 06:43 PM

I haven't done a clean install on my TiBook since 10.1 first came out, so yeah, I plan on a format and install from scratch.

Also, since I have had so many versions of the dev tools from all OSs and the Xcode Jag preview, I think my system is pretty sludged up by now.

vsurfer · Oct 10, 2003, 10:56 PM

Clean

Pain in the took'zz but clean.

Buck_W · Oct 10, 2003, 11:58 PM

I did a clean install with Jaguar, and I'll do a clean install with Panther.

zachs · Oct 11, 2003, 12:02 AM

I've never had a problem with upgrading, so I'll just do a straight upgrade from 10.2.8. Although I might wait to hear feedback after people have actually installed.

Person Man · Oct 11, 2003, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by Preciousss:
Side note: does M$ Office only give you a finite number of installs? I heard somewhere that it was 5. Also, just thought that I won't have access to my PowerBook bundled software with a clean install (mostly use GraphicConverter and the Omni apps). Hmmm.

Microsoft Office can be installed as many times as you want. There's no product activation like on Windows.

You can also reinstall the bundled applications off the Software Restore CD once Panther has been installed. The installer works just fine.

tritonus · Oct 11, 2003, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by k2director:
Clean. I love the feeling of a new start.

You convinced me

IamBob · Oct 11, 2003, 01:13 PM

Why do you keep one old version around?

The old system is proven. After using it over the course of a year I've gotten to know any quirks and how to workaround them. All my settings are how I like and my apps all work as I expect.

If Panther has a quirk that I can't workaround I can go back. If I forgot how I configured something I can refer back. I don't have to retrieve my backup data off CDs because it's all on another partition anyway.

If Panther gets hosed by some lame Apple update (god forbid/knock on wood) I know that there's a backup system that works.

...And so on. It's a comfort thing.

ngrundy · Oct 11, 2003, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by alligator:
Not to ask a stupid question, but for those of us who just switched, how does one do a clean install?

I just got a G5 about a month and a half ago, installed a bunch of apps, and saved a lot of files. Should I be doing a clean install? If so, how?

The basics are

get yourself some sort of 'other' media, eg, external firewire drive, iPod, CDR, DVDR, back up your Home directory, applicaitons you may want to / need to keep, other data you have on the hard disk that you want to keep.

Insert the OSX install disk, reboot select clean install. It will format the partition and install a new copy of the OS, like your machine was when you first got it out of the box.

GRAFF · Oct 11, 2003, 02:32 PM

If I do a clean install, is there any problem restoring my backed-up iTunes Music Store purchases? i.e. Will the computer still be recognized as the original machine (and not a second or third)

Thanks.

Boondoggle · Oct 11, 2003, 04:21 PM

your computer is recognised by it's serial number.

GRAFF · Oct 11, 2003, 04:23 PM

Thanks for confirming this.

Cadaver · Oct 11, 2003, 04:43 PM

I'll probably reformat my iBook to install Panther (I seem to be "missing" some drive space), but I'll most likely just do an upgrade to my G5. It's a less-than one month old install of 10.2.7 -> 10.2.8 and there's virtually no "garbage accumulation." I'd hate to re-install all my stuff on this machine twice in as many months. Besides, a 10.1 to 10.2 upgrade was just peachy on my old G4 Dual 800.

Cadaver · Oct 11, 2003, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by MusicalTone:
For a clean install then, could I use an iPod to backup all my data and then transfer it back?

As long as there's enough room on your iPod for everything you need to save.

sandsl · Oct 11, 2003, 05:04 PM

Just to recap, its perfectly safe to upgrade your 10.2 installation.

However, a large number of people like to reformat and install because its leaves your system feeling fresher and less clutted with junk (old preferences for example).

Those that reformat and install often feel a slight performance increase too simply because their system is less clutted with junk.

For me, i'll be reformating and installing simply because everything is a mess after playing with Panther builds.

MusicalTone · Oct 11, 2003, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Cadaver:
As long as there's enough room on your iPod for everything you need to save.

I have about 3.5 gigs of data that I would want to carry accross and my applications folder is about 5.2 gig (which includes the orginal apps).

Was thinking of buying a 20 gig iPod, so yes. Will the iPod cope OK? I mean, it was designed to play back and store small AAC files not write gigs of data to disk at a time, right?

I am thinking it would be best to reinstall the apps rather than backing them up and copying them across to Panteher. Correct?\

Actually, thinking ahbout it, I could just backup my data and Apps to DVD. Or do you have to install apps not copy them?

Edit: ooops. Forgot my X11 installation and Fink apps. What is the score with X11 and Panther? Will I have to DL and install it again or does it come pre-installed (as part of the Panther install). I guess I would have to back up my /SW folder, right?

Sorry for all the questions!