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Do you think Flash will ever come to iPod/iPad/iPhone? (Page 3)
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That was part of the "features that suck" phrase.
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only consumers suffer when apple rages war with adobe ! I want my Flash !
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Interesting point raised on /.:
Much of what you think you need will simply not work on a touch-based device that doesn't have a cursor.
Any Flash menu that requires a "hover" to open the menu or submenu - no chance. Also included are many, many Flash games.
I think that even if Flash came to the iP*, it would heavily disappoint you, as an awful lot of stuff you'd like to use simply won't work.
For any future content - well, if it can be designed with the iP* and other touch-interfaces in mind, there's no reason to do it in Flash in the first place.
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Yeah, that's a great point. Flash is just a total loser on the iPlatforms.
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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Originally Posted by Eug
You just had to share that offensiveness didn't you, by including a huge 900 KB image?!?
So, yeah, that's really annoying, but you don't honestly think that the demise of Flash will mean the demise of irritating ads do you? I betcha the ad world is drooling at the thought of a powerful standard for multimedia display that doesn't require the installation of a 3rd party plug-in.
Why you KB counting? You tethering or something?
As for "but you don't honestly think that the demise of Flash will mean the demise of irritating ads do you"
Yes. Yes I do actually. Remember in the 90's everything was a standard banner ad GIF animation, no alternatives.
Then along comes google with text keyword ads that are much less intrusive and actually relevant. That's why it's so popular and you hardly notice them. Even if you do they are TINY in KB and easy to ignore.
Apple AND Google recently bought mobile ad companies. Apple said publicly that the mobile advertising space SUCKS. Apple has recently changed ad rules within iPhone apps.
Rather than big ugly popup boxes on whatever website or app I am in perhaps when I am in maps and search for Pizza in maps it brings up sponsors links as well normal results. List them first, give them a picture, whatever. It is relevant, unobtrusive and possibly even helpful. How about GPS aware apps so when traveling it can point out sponsored tourist attractions in certain apps.
So again yes I do absolutely think in the HANDHELD space with no flash will do us all good.
Also the cold reality is judging by the war between steve and adobe in the last month everyone here hoping that one day flash would come to iPhone/iPad is never going to happen.
That's the reality of it so don't hold out for a year hoping things will change. In 8 months 90% of the video sites you watch will be h264 and you'll forget this whole thing.
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I think what Eug is saying (and what makes perfect sense) is that if Flash dies because its functionality is replicated in HTML5, then annoying animated ads will be made in HTML5. Hell, if mobile browser usage continues to go up, there’ll probably be annoying animated ads optimized for mobile browsers.
IOW: Flash doesn’t annoy people, people annoy people with Flash.
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Read in this morning's FT that Jobs is more interested in HTML5 and its development than implementing a problematic Flash. However, given the years that it will take to implement HTML5, this is a major oversight.
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Originally Posted by slugslugslug
I think what Eug is saying (and what makes perfect sense) is that if Flash dies because its functionality is replicated in HTML5, then annoying animated ads will be made in HTML5. Hell, if mobile browser usage continues to go up, there’ll probably be annoying animated ads optimized for mobile browsers.
IOW: Flash doesn’t annoy people, people annoy people with Flash.
Ok well I don't agree that ads have to be annoying and will be replicated with HTML 5 code.
THERE ARE NO MOUSEOVER EVENTS on a handheld. that takes care of the most annoying banner of all. That isn't something you can do with HTML 5 as there simply is no way to hover your mouse to make a ad slide out.
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Originally Posted by slugslugslug
IOW: Flash doesn’t annoy people, people annoy people with Flash.
Goodwin really needs to formulate a new law against this f*cking dumb line of reasoning.
-t
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What’s so ****ing dumb about it? I mean, I realize that the performance issues on a Mac mean Flash qua Flash can be annoying. But I keep hearing people say that future versions of HTML/CSS will duplicate all of Flash’s functionality. I’m sure the people who develop, buy, and sell annoying ads would be happy to implement them in other ways.
As far as the NO MOUSEOVER, that’s fine. But if people continue to think annoying ads are a good idea, they’ll probably find other ways to annoy on a mobile site. Maybe more of those stupid interstitials. Out of curiosity, haven’t the last several versions of HTML and Javascript handled mouseovers on desktop browsers? I bet the slide-out banners will still be possible on a Mac or PC if Flash dies. And it’s still sometimes a pain in the ass when non-Flash websites don’t provide good mouseover alternatives for smartphone browsers.
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Originally Posted by kylef
Read in this morning's FT that Jobs is more interested in HTML5 and its development than implementing a problematic Flash. However, given the years that it will take to implement HTML5, this is a major oversight.
It's not an "oversight" if something is done fully on purpose.
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Originally Posted by Big Mac
It's not coming as long as Jobs has anything to say about it, and people need to get over it.
HTML5 driven video is also not coming as long as Microsoft/the IE team has anything to say about it either.
As much as I like the h.264 codec, the pay to play thing is problematic. I can understand Mozilla's stance here. Whatever happens, I hope that there is a push to standardize on a video codec for HTML5 video tags, and that IE supports this ASAP.
Developers are only now starting to phase out IE 6 though, so it will be a *very* long time before we can do away with Flash for video, and an even longer time for everything else that Flash is used for.
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Originally Posted by besson3c
HTML5 driven video is also not coming as long as Microsoft/the IE team has anything to say about it either.
They don't.
Not anymore.
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Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot
They don't.
Not anymore.
Why, the "mobile web is the future" argument?
Like politics, there are many powerful players working to keep things the way they are and/or look after their best interests. Many companies are not going to take on new costs to be cutting edge when there are big players dragging their feet. Progress is slow when people want it to be.
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No, the "Firefox has 70% of the market" argument.
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What market does Firefox have 70% of?
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Exactly what I was going to ask.
Seems like another discussion where somebody has confused what they would like with what we actually have.
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Germany.
Poland, hungary, Finland, and a couple of other nations are similarly high, and the others (outside of the US) are growing fast.
Edit: I can't find the info my brain is basin that on. However, market share over the entire year 2009 in Germany showed Firefox clearly ahead of all versions of IE put together, with average European market share for 2009 at around 40+.
Firefox should be ahead of IE as of this month, in Europe.
http://m.zdnet.de/news/digitale_wirt...41525171-1.htm
In any case, it's fairly clear that Microsoft is no longer calling the shots in the browser market.
(
Last edited by Spheric Harlot; Feb 23, 2010 at 04:35 AM.
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For all I know Firefox could have 90+ percent market share in Tuvalu.
But if that is what you are basing your claim that "Microsoft/the IE team no longer has anything to say about HTML5 driven video" on, you might want to consider a reality check. None of this is a done deal. Apple/Safari is not single-handedly going to change the web as long as it's facing resistance from both MS/IE and Mozilla/FF.
Note that I understand you hope that in the future that will happen. A hope I actually share. However, right now none of that is happening. Flash is still alive and well. The YouTube HTML5 beta and the iPad (of which not a single unit has so far sold) are still far from determining what web video standards will prevail.
(
Last edited by Simon; Feb 23, 2010 at 06:28 AM.
Reason: typo)
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What Simon said.
I'm not a Flash fan myself, but I've been a web developer long enough to know how the lowest common denominator can slow things down.
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Originally Posted by Simon
For all I know Firefox could have 90+ percent market share in Tuvalu.
But if that is what you are basing your claim that "Microsoft/the IE team no longer has anything to say about HTML5 driven video" on, you might want to consider a reality check. None of this is a done deal. Apple/Safari is not single-handedly going to change the web as long as it's facing resistance from both MS/IE and Mozilla/FF.
I don't think Apple singlehandedly needs to.
And yes, stating that Microsoft has no say anymore is hyperbole, but basically, it's true: their grip on the browser market has long since slipped, and it will continue to diminish.
As the mobile market grows, Apple *will* continue to dominate that for a couple of years. Flash is being disabled by Mozilla on the N900 due to performance problems. Flash won't work properly on any touch-platform as soon as it involves "hover" events. The major video platforms are switching away from Flash to h.264 direct playback.
The writing is on the wall, and it ain't Microsoft's handwriting.
Of course web developers will have to continue to cater to the lowest common denominator, but as far as I'm concerned, that's always been an HTML fallback for any Flash-based site/function. IANAD, though.
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Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot
I don't think Apple singlehandedly needs to.
And yes, stating that Microsoft has no say anymore is hyperbole, but basically, it's true: their grip on the browser market has long since slipped, and it will continue to diminish.
I don't think that is true. I think IE still has a grip on the browser market, and IE 8 might slow its diminish. Too many people are not going to bother installing any other browser than what came with their Windows OS. Hell, I still have clients using AOL just because that is evidently what they know. That generation will eventually die off, but until then their grip remains.
Of course web developers will have to continue to cater to the lowest common denominator, but as far as I'm concerned, that's always been an HTML fallback for any Flash-based site/function. IANAD, though.
The question is whether companies want to incur these costs to satisfy a small percentage of their users. The no-Flash-at-all on Apple devices makes things interesting as it forces hands, but there will still be reluctance, and this will still be a slow moving process, albeit accelerated by this.
I wish my words weren't true, but I think it is realistic to be a cynic.
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Originally Posted by besson3c
I don't think that is true. I think IE still has a grip on the browser market, and IE 8 might slow its diminish. Too many people are not going to bother installing any other browser than what came with their Windows OS. Hell, I still have clients using AOL just because that is evidently what they know. That generation will eventually die off, but until then their grip remains.
America may be a little slower. But the numbers here are clear, and the fact that Microsoft has been FORCED to present every user with a default browser selection window on first boot (in randomized order, no less) in the EU, starting March 1st, will virtually guarantee that Firefox will remain - or become, where it is not already - the dominant browser.
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Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot
America may be a little slower. But the numbers here are clear, and the fact that Microsoft has been FORCED to present every user with a default browser selection window on first boot (in randomized order, no less) in the EU, starting March 1st, will virtually guarantee that Firefox will remain - or become, where it is not already - the dominant browser.
Perhaps things are different here in America then. I wish that our anti-trust agencies had the balls that the EUs have, but I suspect that there are politicians primarily on the right gunning for weak anti-trust enforcement here.
I also wouldn't say "a little slower", I would say slower by an order of magnitude.
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Yeah, this is exactly what Apple intended to happen.
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Originally Posted by turtle777
Yeah, this is exactly what Apple intended to happen.
-t
1 step closer for eug to recommend that iPad to grandma!
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Actually, that makes sense: Branson (he still owns Virgin, right?) is sure to be an iPhone user, and if there's ONE thing that forces change, it's the company's CEO changing his habits and running into problems.
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FWIW, for about a year now I've been running a Flash blocker in Safari, and my browsing experience has undeniably improved. Granted, I can click to load it if I want, but that's really only on Failblog. Everything I use that is of any consequence is simply improved by the lack of Flash ads.
So if I were forced into a completely Flash-free existence, I don't think I'd be hurting too much.
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It'll be much easier if you just comply.
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Originally Posted by amangelomike
According to me ...
Well, according to ME, you will be banned soon.
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About time. I wonder how long it will take to transcode all the videos on Facebook?
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Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
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Originally Posted by Stogieman
About time. I wonder how long it will take to transcode all the videos on Facebook?
Couldn't they do it on the fly? ie. Transcode once when it is requested and then just keep it on hand for future requests?
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i was using Facebook on my iPad and i could watch the videos, it opens up a window and runs as a quicktime video. anyone notices that ?
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You're eight hours late to the thread.
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So there are rumors that Hulu has an iPhone OS app in the works. Once that happens, what will be the reason we "need" flash on these devices? Farmville?
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All glory to the hypnotoad.
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Porn.
(Is this really a problem? From what I gather, porn is always the first to follow the money, so I'd be surprised if there weren't already ample iPhone-compatible content)
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Originally Posted by jokell82
So there are rumors that Hulu has an iPhone OS app in the works. Once that happens, what will be the reason we "need" flash on these devices? Farmville?
It's coming... FarmVille heading to iPhone and iPad
Edit: Double po... oh wait!
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Originally Posted by MacinTommy
I must admit, it took me a sec to get that joke.
Anyways, Android is shaping up to be more popular than I expected.
In March 2010, Android in the US actually beat out iPhone OS smartphones.
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I wonder what those percentages would look like if there were an iPhone on Verizon...
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All glory to the hypnotoad.
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Originally Posted by jokell82
I wonder what those percentages would look like if there were an iPhone on Verizon...
I wonder what those percentages would look like if they included the rest of the world.
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Originally Posted by Andy8
I wonder what those percentages would look like if they included the rest of the world.
46% iPhone, 25% Android, 21% Symbian, in March 2010.
Again, better than I was expecting for Android. Android is turning out to be quite a solid platform for smartphones from the point of view of market adoption. Note that Android has been significantly higher than Symbian for a few months now, and iPhone market share has decreased worldwide. In Dec. 2009, it was 50% iPhone, 20% Symbian, and 19% Android. To put it another way, most of Android's gain was at the expense of iPhone OS.
http://metrics.admob.com/wp-content/...ics-Mar-10.pdf
P.S. Took them long enough, but Android will get Flash with Android version 2.2.
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Last edited by Eug; Apr 28, 2010 at 09:43 AM.
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Interesting indeed, thanks Eug.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Does that come with a free backup battery so you can swap out after watching 2 youtube videos?
I'm actually glad Android is doing so well - it should hopefully push Apple to be even more competitive and innovative in their iPhone OS offering. Although I'll be interested to see what happens to those numbers if the long-rumored Verizon iPhone is ever released.
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