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Sarc · 06:53 PM

So, ThinkSecret is showing some pictures of the upcoming MSN Messenger 4.0.

This is sad, interface is hardly changed, no webcam support, no audio chat support, no avatars, no handwriting, it's basically the same !

granted, it is a beta, but one gets a pretty clear picture of what you will get with these pictures.

Damn you M$.

gorickey · Mar 29, 2004, 06:52 PM

Yuck.

OwlBoy · Mar 29, 2004, 08:06 PM

Erm.

Its almost the same, cept for a few bug fixes and an Entourage feature or 2? AND THEY ARE CALLING IT 4.0?!!??

bah.

-Owl

bergy · Mar 29, 2004, 09:16 PM

They're not stupid ...

No webcam support because they know kids demand MSN and Webcam capability and will make a whole computer purchase decision on this one issue. If you have kids ... you are aware that MSN Messenger is the iPod of instant messaging ... except Messenger is a whole lot more pervasive.

They will hold off on webcam support maybe forever ....

Apple should develop their own that is compatible with Messenger ...

Developer · Mar 29, 2004, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by bergy:
Apple should develop their own that is compatible with Messenger ...

If Microsoft holds off webcam support forever for the reasons you named, it's unlikely that they would let Apple on their servers, isn't it?

brutal · Mar 30, 2004, 09:53 AM

well, I already have msn messenger 4, and the only difference I have noticed is that the icons are uglier.

I don't see the point in this release really..

Apple should develop their own that is compatible with Messenger ..

I TOTALLY agree! Apple should definately add support for the MSN-protocol in iChat, so I can delete this crappy M$-app forever.

SubGeniux · Mar 30, 2004, 10:34 AM

The new Entourage is pretty nice, I like the new column views for viewing email. I haven't bothered to try out MSN 4 though.

Visnaut · Mar 30, 2004, 10:37 AM

By keeping their mac version of messenger consistently behind the Windows version, they accomplish either one of two things:
a) Dissatisfy users to the point of feeling as if a Mac is insufficient for their needs.
b) Dissatisfy users to the point of using open-source third-party IM programs to gain access to their network.

It's hard to gauge the exact number of these, but either way, they send the message that they truly don't care about any product on the Mac unless it makes money. And of course, that's their right. But if they intend on adding exclusive features for Office users (such as the Entourage integration and such), it would be a rip-off to Office:mac users if the version of Messenger included with it wasn't on par with the Windows one. At the very least they could simply keep a crippled ad-ware version for available for free download, or discontinue the free one altogether. By the time it would come out, the free open-source versions will probably have more features anyway!

And if anything, Microsoft, clean up that God-awful GUI w/ custom controls everywhere, it's hideous!

Horsepoo!!! · Mar 30, 2004, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by brutal:
well, I already have msn messenger 4...

Me too...and it's called MSN Messenger 3.

SubGeniux · Mar 30, 2004, 11:04 AM

I just use Proteus for MSN, version 4 is coming along nicely. The PC version of MSN i s good though, shame that they can't just get those features into the Mac one.

Sarc · Mar 30, 2004, 12:16 PM

I use Proteus too for my IM, it's nice for messages, but feature wise, is as far behind as the fugly official client.

::maroma:: · Mar 30, 2004, 02:36 PM

That is the BIGGEST Send button I've ever seen!

gorickey · Mar 30, 2004, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
That is the BIGGEST Send button I've ever seen!

Send to trash...then hit the really big EMPTY TRASH button...

JellyBeen · Mar 30, 2004, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Send to trash...then hit the really big EMPTY TRASH button...

Your wrong!!!

Secure Empty Trash is what is in order.

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Mar 30, 2004, 05:28 PM

Well that is a whole lot of NOTHING!

Sarc · Mar 30, 2004, 10:27 PM

well, you can always give them some FEEDBACK

gorickey · Mar 30, 2004, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by Sarc:
well, you can always give them some FEEDBACK

People have been doing that since v1.0 and nothing has been done....this isn't Apple we are dealing with who actually does listen to feedback...

ambush · Mar 31, 2004, 08:15 AM

use aMSN for god's sake!

ryju · Mar 31, 2004, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by ambush:
use aMSN for god's sake!

That things buggier, and uglier than the official client. No thx

mitchell_pgh · Mar 31, 2004, 10:54 AM

Being totally honest, there are things that I see that I say "ohhhh, nice" but I think it's because I've been using iChat for so long... the eye candy has lost some of its shine.

That being said, overall, it's ugly, sounds buggy, doesn't use open-ish standards (like iChat), and isn't on par with the Windows version. The enormous "send" button almost makes me want to puke...

I feel it's just another "Well, we don't want the Mac version to be cooler then the Windows version...

::maroma:: · Mar 31, 2004, 01:33 PM

Does it say "Never give out your password of credit card number in an instant message conversation." with every chat session?

Seph · Mar 31, 2004, 01:47 PM

I also have the beta installed on my computer and something i have noticed is that yes, the icon on the dock has changed to a more silky-ish non aquafied one, but have you noticed that not the toolbar icons or the status icons have? they still have the aqua effect...

Do you think this will be fixed on the final released or it is just carelessness from them?

sushiism · Mar 31, 2004, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Sarc:
well, you can always give them some FEEDBACK

"Hello,

Thank you for writing to MSN Messenger.

I gathered that you want to add a display picture on your MSN Messenger for Mac. Unfortunately, that feature is not currently available with MSN Messenger. We forwarded your suggestion to the product team that carefully reviews these suggestions and considers them for future releases.

On your inquiry about the logging into the service and saving logs is slow, please check you Internet provider about the speed connection.

If you have other concerns, please do write us back."

Yes thats right my ISP is to blame for your logs saving slow and is 2 a 2 meg connection really too slow for msn to take a good 15-20 seconds to log on some times when adium is logged in under a second

tRr · Apr 1, 2004, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Does it say "Never give out your password of credit card number in an instant message conversation." with every chat session?

Yep!

dru · Apr 1, 2004, 08:50 AM

On another thread I said Microsoft doesn't make a good app for Macs anymore. This proves my point. I use aMSN which is ugly (preferences, anyway) but the only real flaw it has is lacking support for drag/drop & dock icon bouncing. Otherwise it's faster and more dependable than the official client.

I bet MSNM 4 will still occassionally draw buddy list text way across the other side of the screen (outside the window) just like 3.x does.

Microsoft's hubris and loathing for their customers is nearly unbelievable.

brapper · Apr 25, 2004, 02:33 AM

just got 4.0
it is horseshit

Socially Awkward Solo · Apr 25, 2004, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by brapper:
just got 4.0
it is horseshit

No surprise there.

ryju · Apr 25, 2004, 08:54 AM

3.0 would randomly lose connection and log me off for no apparently reason while aMSN would stay connected all the time.

4.0 hasn't done this yet, I haven't had any "problems" with it yet either. It does take forever to connect though!

Horsepoo!!! · Apr 25, 2004, 10:39 AM

Why would anyone use MSN anymore when aMSN and Fire exist?

MSN 4 offers nothing compelling or new to the table.

brutal · Apr 25, 2004, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Why would anyone use MSN anymore when aMSN and Fire exist?

MSN 4 offers nothing compelling or new to the table.

maybe because aMSN sucks? Fire is pretty ok though, but Proteus rules them ALL!

ryju · Apr 25, 2004, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Why would anyone use MSN anymore when aMSN and Fire exist?

MSN 4 offers nothing compelling or new to the table.

aMSN is crap, filetransfer won't work in Fire for me, and Proteus disconnects me from MSN more than the official client USED TO.

Plus I can change me nickname in just ONE click on the official client.

Horsepoo!!! · Apr 25, 2004, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by ryju:

Plus I can change me nickname in just ONE click on the official client.

Oh...you're one of those guys, eh? Yeah...maybe you should stick with the official client.

ambush · Apr 25, 2004, 12:47 PM

It's official... MSN 4 is Microsoft MacBU's biggest joke ever.

Releasing MSN 4 is like saying. **** Mac Users, eat **** you little bastards.

Horsepoo!!! · Apr 25, 2004, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by brutal:
maybe because aMSN sucks? Fire is pretty ok though, but Proteus rules them ALL!

I agree...as soon as Proteus gets group chat, buddy pictures and file transfer, I have no idea why someone would even consider the official client.

Horsepoo!!! · Apr 25, 2004, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
It's official... MSN 4 is Microsoft MacBU's biggest joke ever.

Releasing MSN 4 is like saying. **** Mac Users, eat **** you little bastards.

I agree...it is a joke...it's like changing some wording in an app and maybe changing an icon or two and releasing it as a x.0 upgrade.

This upgrade is at best a 0.x release but closer to a 0.0.x.

ryju · Apr 25, 2004, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Oh...you're one of those guys, eh? Yeah...maybe you should stick with the official client.

Well I don't go raving about how much I love my girlfriend like SOME people, but I get bored of it quickly

godzookie2k · 10:08 AM

You guys sure do bitch alot over free software. The UI didn't change. Big deal, thats a good thing. Its a frickin im client guys, not some secret trojan horse by ms to bring down all of apple, take off the tin foil hats. You connect, you chat, and you sign off. Thats all it really needs to do isn't it? I don't really get all these people who are all demanding that their damn IM client incorporate webkit, play mp3's and make them breakfast the next morning.

Mac Guru · Apr 26, 2004, 08:20 AM

Adium 2.0 allows MSN access as well as AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, .Mac, Trepia, Napster, Jabber, and Gadu-Gadu (whatever that is)

Mac Guru

ryju · Apr 26, 2004, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
You guys sure do bitch alot over free software. The UI didn't change. Big deal, thats a good thing. Its a frickin im client guys, not some secrete trojan horse by ms to bring down all of apple, take off the tin foil hats. You connect, you chat, and you sign off. Thats all it really needs to do isn't it? I don't really get all these people who are all demanding that their damn IM client incorporate webkit, play mp3's and make them breakfast the next morning.

That's not the problem the problem is that because the same client has these "features" on the Windows side, people think it's unfair to be left out. I don't really care about little display pictures and I don't use audio chat anyways.

15 year olds love MSN.

Zimphire · Apr 26, 2004, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by bergy:
They're not stupid ...

No webcam support because they know kids demand MSN and Webcam capability and will make a whole computer purchase decision on this one issue. If you have kids ... you are aware that MSN Messenger is the iPod of instant messaging ... except Messenger is a whole lot more pervasive.

They will hold off on webcam support maybe forever ....

Apple should develop their own that is compatible with Messenger ...

Actually I don't know many people that use MSN.

Zimphire · Apr 26, 2004, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
I agree...as soon as Proteus gets group chat, buddy pictures and file transfer, I have no idea why someone would even consider the official client.

Wow Fire already has those.

Horsepoo!!! · Apr 26, 2004, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Wow Fire already has those.

Not buddy picts.

Horsepoo!!! · Apr 26, 2004, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
You guys sure do bitch alot over free software. The UI didn't change. Big deal, thats a good thing. Its a frickin im client guys, not some secrete trojan horse by ms to bring down all of apple, take off the tin foil hats. You connect, you chat, and you sign off. Thats all it really needs to do isn't it? I don't really get all these people who are all demanding that their damn IM client incorporate webkit, play mp3's and make them breakfast the next morning.

That's simple for you to say, Mr. I-Got-No-Friends-To-Talk-To-On-MSN. But for people that unfortunately have friends that have PCs and use MSN and that want you to check out their buddy picts or play Minesweeper, this chat client is sub-par.

To you and me it's ... connect, chat, sign off ... but to most others it's ...connect, check out buddy picts, chat, play a quick game , sign off.

And something I noticed recently was some guy on my list with a ****ing script (someone using Trillian or some other 3rd party client?) which made his status blink from away to online causing MSN 3.whatever to grind to a halt. So, YES, this program is a 'secrete' trojan horse by ms to bring down all of apple. It's badly coded and takes up way too many CPU cycles when it's supposedly idle.

godzookie2k · Apr 26, 2004, 10:08 AM

Thats the funniest goddamn thing I've heard all day.

So it doesn't have stupid features the windows side has, uhm, you should be used to that by now I think, owning a mac and all? Fairness isn't an obligation is software development.

godzookie2k · Apr 26, 2004, 10:09 AM

oh and picking on spelling is just the sign of a weak argument.

Horsepoo!!! · Apr 26, 2004, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
Thats the funniest goddamn thing I've heard all day.

So it doesn't have stupid features the windows side has, uhm, you should be used to that by now I think, owning a mac and all? Fairness isn't an obligation is software development.

Maybe not...but that's also why MSN 4.0 is inadequate which goes back to my original point: why use MSN 4 when other apps do it better?

godzookie2k · Apr 26, 2004, 10:26 AM

no one is demanding you use it, its "another option".

kovacs · 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Maybe not...but that's also why MSN 4.0 is inadequate which goes back to my original point: why use MSN 4 when other apps do it better?

It just sad for all those people ( non-geeks ) that don't know Proteus, Fire or Adium, they don't see it as Microsoft's fault but as Apple's, I know some people that bought a PC a not a Mac for this app alone, sad but true...

Sarc · Apr 26, 2004, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by kovacs:
I know some people that bought a PC a not a Mac for this app alone, sad but thrue...

same here, camera support cited as the numer one missing feature (and by extension, voice support)

bradoesch · Apr 26, 2004, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Sarc:
same here, camera support cited as the numer one missing feature (and by extension, voice support)

Are there no Mac apps that support cameras on MSN?