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So Trump won the night but I think I'm a manner weaker than expected. Did the attacks on him work? Damned if I know.
I'm angry at you Minnesota. I was enjoying Rubios claim to front runner status even though he couldn't even get second in any state prior. Oh well, he still might lose his own home state.
Carson is skipping the debate, conceding he has no path to the nomination, but is not suspending his campaign, lest he miss out on the final trickle of sweet, sweet donations.
I liked Oliver's reply to assertions he's a journalist.
"Am I so bad a comedian that if I say I'm a comedian, you have to insist I'm not?"
He's a political spindoctor who also does comedy. The politics always comes first with him.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
This would require a perception of his own bias I don't think he has. Stewart doesn't either.
I mean, I'm sure they'd both say they know they're biased, but I have the sneaking suspicion they buy into the "truth has a liberal bias" meme.
You have no idea how annoyed i get when I see/hear the word "liberal" being used to describe policies(and party) which are completely opposite to those values. Don't get me started on how 'red' is the color of the party diametrically opposed to socialism/communism.
As an outsider, the Republican party is the conservative party trying to conserve liberal values(individualism, etc). The Democratic party is the socialist party promoting collective values.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Looks like the GOP is now aiming for a brokered convention and using Mitt to pretend it's not angling for it. If I know my GOP, they know the convention is their last hope, but have no actual plan to nominate someone other than Trump without antagonizing him into running third party.
Of course they're aiming for a brokered convention. They can't beat Trump as long as they're divided, and nobody wants to bow out. Cruz won't, because he knows that the only way for him to win is by actual votes - he won't ever be the nominee as a compromise candidate, and he won't be named VP as long as everyone hates him (and Texas is safely red anyway). Rubio is the favored option to compromise around, so he will stay in, at the very least until Florida, after which it is too late to leave anyway. Kasich is talking about a brokered convention straight out, that he wants to win Ohio, get a bump from that, prevent Trump from reaching 50% and become a compromise candidate on the third or fourth vote. Personally I think it is a fool's hope, because he won't actually win the general that way, but it seems to be his plan.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
I'm hearing last nights debate was two hours of exposing what a terrible person Donald Trump is followed by a "But I'd still vote for him" climax. Kind of undermines the message, doesn't it?
I'm hearing last nights debate was two hours of exposing what a terrible person Donald Trump is followed by a "But I'd still vote for him" climax. Kind of undermines the message, doesn't it?
That and Donald Trump assuring the American people that they need not worry about his penis size.
Fundamentally, Bernie's campaign does not seem to understand how the liberalism of black democrats differs from that of their white counterparts. Specifically, culture-war issues play a much smaller role, because that is one place where black and white Democrats do not align perfectly.
So then, what is motivating black voters, if not culture-war issues? I will suggest the following (seemingly contradictory) statement: within the Democratic Party, black voters feel political insecurity and economic optimism that white voters do not.
Politically: black Americans have historically been excluded from the basic egalitarian social contract which (in theory) defines this country. Free speech, the right to worship in peace, due process, equal protection under the law - for most of American history these were empty promises. The Civil Rights Movement was less than a lifetime ago, and in a world after Charleston, a world after Tamir Rice, a world where Donald Trump finds his biggest fans among white nationalists, a world where "voter ID" laws are being employed to disenfranchise poor blacks, those political victories seem very fragile. Bernie Sanders has admirable political responses to all those issues -- but he has been unable to demonstrate that he could prevail in a general election against a GOP candidate who might be openly hostile to black Americans. (Even Barack Obama had trouble earning black voters support until he showed that he could win in a place like Iowa.) When a voter feels deeply threatened he/she is most likely to seek security in a candidate, and black voters see that security in the political juggernaut that is Hillary Clinton. I concur with /u/chefcgarcia 's post below: electability is the most important characteristic that black voters seek, because the GOP candidates are unacceptable.
Its conclusion is kind of a duh. Electability has always been the main reason to support Hillary over Bernie. They do rephrase the white privileges that's been pointed out in a better manner: that blacks have more to lose from a GOP president.
Don't get me started on how 'red' is the color of the party diametrically opposed to socialism/communism.
Not to mention having such a large animal as an elephant as their emblem when they're the party in favor of small government. Elephants aren't even American!
Spot on! Interestingly enough Bernie has made some significant inroads with younger black voters. And black voters who are more leftist in their political leanings. But that simply hasn't been enough to counter the fundamentally "defensive" political mindset of the vast majority of the African-American electorate.
a defensive mindset propagated by the regressives on the Left and used as a lever, constantly reminding blacks of how much they need them, keeping them dependent on the system. It's just another type slavery.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status:
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Mar 4, 2016, 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Its conclusion is kind of a duh. Electability has always been the main reason to support Hillary over Bernie. They do rephrase the white privileges that's been pointed out in a better manner: that blacks have more to lose from a GOP president.
One part I probably should have quoted that hit me hardest is that Blacks and Hispanics are still overwhelmingly religious. Perhaps not in a devout manner, but at least in a manner that recognizes the place religion has held in their and their ancestors' struggle. So while Sanders' irreligiosity is a pro to the young white "internet atheist" demographic, it loses a lot of minority votes.
a defensive mindset propagated by the regressives on the Left and used as a lever, constantly reminding blacks of how much they need them, keeping them dependent on the system. It's just another type slavery.
I imagine a politically "defensive mindset" that's a direct result of these things right here would sound like "another type of slavery" to someone like you. Because only in the mind of the willfully ignorant are "regressives on the Left" responsible for these realities.
Originally Posted by Laminar
Politically: black Americans have historically been excluded from the basic egalitarian social contract which (in theory) defines this country. Free speech, the right to worship in peace, due process, equal protection under the law - for most of American history these were empty promises. The Civil Rights Movement was less than a lifetime ago, and in a world after Charleston, a world after Tamir Rice, a world where Donald Trump finds his biggest fans among white nationalists, a world where "voter ID" laws are being employed to disenfranchise poor blacks, those political victories seem very fragile. Bernie Sanders has admirable political responses to all those issues -- but he has been unable to demonstrate that he could prevail in a general election against a GOP candidate who might be openly hostile to black Americans.
One part I probably should have quoted that hit me hardest is that Blacks and Hispanics are still overwhelmingly religious. Perhaps not in a devout manner, but at least in a manner that recognizes the place religion has held in their and their ancestors' struggle. So while Sanders' irreligiosity is a pro to the young white "internet atheist" demographic, it loses a lot of minority votes.
While I think that could be true, I very much doubt most know or care. Hillary certainly doesn't come off as religious, either. I'd be more willing to blame Bernies appearance: he looks like a crazy uncle. He's an old guy, and like it or not that's as evocative of the GOP as it gets.
All that aside, since I don't know any black people this not even anecdotal. Maybe OAW could provide some anecdotal stories from his circle.
Originally Posted by OAW
I imagine a politically "defensive mindset" that's a direct result of these things right here would sound like "another type of slavery" to someone like you. Because only in the mind of the willfully ignorant are "regressives on the Left" responsible for these realities.
C'mon dude, that's totally bait. It's a transparent troll.
While I think that could be true, I very much doubt most know or care. Hillary certainly doesn't come off as religious, either. I'd be more willing to blame Bernies appearance: he looks like a crazy uncle. He's an old guy, and like it or not that's as evocative of the GOP as it gets.
All that aside, since I don't know any black people this not even anecdotal. Maybe OAW could provide some anecdotal stories from his circle.
African-Americans are the most religious ethnic group in the US. Which in many ways makes African-Americans very "socially conservative". But that has never translated into African-Americans being "politically conservative" for the most part because of many of the reasons Laminar indicated above. It's certainly good politics to make the rounds of African-American churches when one is seeking black support in an election. But that's more because the church is the center of the community. Especially of those African-Americans that vote on a regular basis. But quite unlike what we all too often see on the religious right ... it's not about trying to appeal to black voters on the basis of them looking for some sort of "holier than thou" religiosity. Trying to fake that is a really bad move. You just have to speak to the issues that are of importance to the African-American community. Civil/Voting Rights, Police Brutality, Jobs and Education are key areas.
As for Bernie's struggles with black voters I've said before it boils down to the fact that Bill Clinton is immensely popular with African-Americans. Black family incomes increased 30+% during the Clinton Administration so Hillary is benefiting from all that. It certainly doesn't help that Bernie Sanders is utterly lacking the "swag" that Bill Clinton had. But I don't think that's why he's failing with black voters. It's the "Clinton" factor IMO. Or to put it another way, if Hillary weren't in the race and it was between Sanders and O'Malley I think the African-American vote would swing largely in favor on Sanders.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
C'mon dude, that's totally bait. It's a transparent troll.
Oh I know CTP was just baiting me. I just gave him a little smackdown since that's what was looking for. The guy is a glutton for punishment like that. Don't judge me!
I imagine a politically "defensive mindset" that's a direct result of these things right here would sound like "another type of slavery" to someone like you. Because only in the mind of the willfully ignorant are "regressives on the Left" responsible for these realities.
It's institutionalized poverty. A banner waved to promote fear, "They're going to take away your entitlements!", and a carrot to encourage more support, "We'll give you more free shit, just vote for us again!" Any fool can see that, right? Pavlov proved all this over a century ago. Hillary's a master of using both.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
As for Bernie's struggles with black voters I've said before it boils down to the fact that Bill Clinton is immensely popular with African-Americans. Black family incomes increased 30+% during the Clinton Administration so Hillary is benefiting from all that. It certainly doesn't help that Bernie Sanders is utterly lacking the "swag" that Bill Clinton had. But I don't think that's why he's failing with black voters. It's the "Clinton" factor IMO. Or to put it another way, if Hillary weren't in the race and it was between Sanders and O'Malley I think the African-American vote would swing largely in favor on Sanders.
Thanks. That actually reminds me of another stat: I believe Bernie performed well with AA millennials. (I.e. Voters who wouldn't remember the Clinton era). They would also be less susceptible to pragmatic voting.
Thanks. That actually reminds me of another stat: I believe Bernie performed well with AA millennials. (I.e. Voters who wouldn't remember the Clinton era). They would also be less susceptible to pragmatic voting.
Exactly! As I said earlier Bernie's doing well with younger black voters as he's doing with millennials in general. Bernie is the unabashed progressive that millennial voters assumed they were getting with Barack Obama. But when they realized Obama was a center-left kind of politician .... which, quite frankly, he never portrayed himself as anything but ... they were disappointed. From a policy perspective Hillary Clinton is basically Barack Obama all over again ... just more hawkish on the foreign policy side of the house. So I can totally understand why millennials are swinging towards Bernie. If the Obama coalition sticks together and turns out for Hillary in the same numbers then she will easily be POTUS. But she doesn't have the natural appeal to millennials like Obama had. And she doesn't have the policy appeal to millennials like Bernie has. So she had better figure out a way to galvanize the younger voters in that coalition otherwise it's going to be a much more difficult proposition for her.
It's institutionalized poverty. A banner waved to promote fear, "They're going to take away your entitlements!", and a carrot to encourage more support, "We'll give you more free shit, just vote for us again!" Any fool can see that, right? Pavlov proved all this over a century ago. Hillary's a master of using both.
And this a prime example of the type of willful ignorance that unfortunately a certain segment of white people such as yourself cling to. You insist upon this foolish narrative despite all evidence to the contrary because in your arrogance you figure you know what black people think better than they do. In any event, I'll give you an example of just how woefully misguided you are in your thinking. I've mentioned the immense popularity of Bill Clinton in the African-American community several times now. Well President Clinton was the one who signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act (aka "Welfare Reform") back in 1996. This legislation was a key component of the GOP Contract With America that brought Newt Gingrich to power as Speaker of the House in 1995. It is also the legislation that ended the Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) program which was routinely criticized on the right for promoting unwed motherhood, encouraging government dependency, and generally being a "welfare for life" program (even though the statistics never reflected this). In its place this legislation created the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program .... emphasis on the word "Temporary" ... which was designed to "end welfare as we know it". Remember that? Well my point here is that this was a brilliant display of political triangulation on the part of President Clinton. Because he was able to throw the GOP a bone while not incurring any significant political fallout with his own base. He was essentially able to eliminate welfare as a political issue for a generation. Why? Because he was attuned enough to his constituency ... including African-American voters ... to realize that they had zero f*cks to give about welfare as a voting issue! We see more #BlackLivesMatter protests in a freaking weekend than we ever did during the years of welfare reform debates during the Clinton Administration. So much for your notion that black voters are motivated by "entitlements" and "free shit".
You're inadvertently describing yourself, and you do it with such regularity. I forgot, you actually believe career politicians. The results of generation upon generation of entitlement subsistence don't lie, unlike said politicians.
Most blacks are still in chains, only now it's a leash held by white Leftists in gov't, and they pull on it or give it more slack, as their needs change.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
You're inadvertently describing yourself, and you do it with such regularity. I forgot, you actually believe career politicians. The results of generation upon generation of entitlement subsistence don't lie, unlike said politicians.
Most blacks are still in chains, only now it's a leash held by white Leftists in gov't, and they pull on it or give it more slack, as their needs change.
Let me repeat this because reading comprehension is surely not your strong suit ...
Originally Posted by OAW
Because he [Bill Clinton] was attuned enough to his constituency ... including African-American voters ... to realize that they had zero f*cks to give about welfare as a voting issue!
You see what I made quite clear here was that welfare was NOT a voting issue for African-Americans. And those articles you cited bemoaning the welfare state addresses my point how? Where exactly did you demonstrate that preserving welfare programs was a major motivating factor for African-American voting patterns?
IOW ... we aren't debating the pros vs cons of the welfare state. I know you are trying to shift the goalposts to turn it into that because you have no comeback to what I actually said. And therefore you start arguing a point that is not in dispute. But I have neither the time nor the inclination to chase you down that rabbit hole. Because as a FISCAL matter it's a worthless conversation considering the fact that only a DIME out of every federal tax DOLLAR is even spent on all social safety net programs COMBINED. Thus welfare is just a fraction of that amount. And contrary to what media portrayals lead a lot of individuals such as your self to believe, the majority of welfare recipients are single white women living in trailer parks like what you see not very far from your neck of the woods as opposed to the stereotypical black "welfare queen" living in the hood. So I'm going to make the point again. If preserving welfare programs actually was a major voting issue for African-Americans ... and Bill Clinton "ended welfare as we know it ... why did his approval ratings among black voters NOT fall off a cliff in the aftermath? Since according to you it's all about voting for those "regressive" politicians promising "free shit".
1 dime? What ****ed up MSNBC math are you using to come up with that? If you can't even be honest with yourself, how can you be honest with anyone else?
But let's say you're right (you aren't, but we'll say it anyway), such tenacious loyalty for only 10%? So much fear and angst over losing what you think is so little? Never before has any party paid so little for so much.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
if Hillary weren't in the race and it was between Sanders and O'Malley I think the African-American vote would swing largely in favor on Sanders.
Sanders was never going to be the favorite to win the nomination no matter who ran. In fact his success now is only because the Dems have a narrowed field of candidates to choose from. Once Clinton announced her intentions to run everyone viable backed off.
If not for Hillary the most likely Dem frontrunner right now would have been Biden, Cuomo, or Warner with Elizabeth Warren being the most probable VP. Sanders appeal is he is the anti-Hillary and that is what propagated him to be the choice of the far left. Without her as a contrast his campaign would have flopped like O'Malley's did.
Barack Obama: Four more years of the Carter Presidency
I imagine a politically "defensive mindset" that's a direct result of these things right here would sound like "another type of slavery" to someone like you. Because only in the mind of the willfully ignorant are "regressives on the Left" responsible for these realities.
1 dime? What ****ed up MSNBC math are you using to come up with that? If you can't even be honest with yourself, how can you be honest with anyone else?
But let's say you're right (you aren't, but we'll say it anyway), such tenacious loyalty for only 10%? So much fear and angst over losing what you think is so little? Never before has any party paid so little for so much.
It would appear you have projected your own penchant for posting unsubstantiated information onto me. But I simply don't get down like you with that silly BS.
Oh wait. Are you trying to factor in Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security into the mix even though that was NOT what we were discussing? I mean I could have sworn that I was very specific with my statement:
Originally Posted by OAW
Because as a FISCAL matter it's a worthless conversation considering the fact that only a DIME out of every federal tax DOLLAR is even spent on all social safety net programs COMBINED.
Do you think that this latest attempt to sidetrack the discussion is actually causing anyone to suddenly forget that you STILL haven't even addressed my fundamental point that welfare is NOT a major motivating factor in African-American voting patterns? Let alone refuted it? As I've stated before. You just aren't very good at this debate thing. As this clap back so aptly demonstrates.
Sanders was never going to be the favorite to win the nomination no matter who ran. In fact his success now is only because the Dems have a narrowed field of candidates to choose from. Once Clinton announced her intentions to run everyone viable backed off.
If not for Hillary the most likely Dem frontrunner right now would have been Biden, Cuomo, or Warner with Elizabeth Warren being the most probable VP. Sanders appeal is he is the anti-Hillary and that is what propagated him to be the choice of the far left. Without her as a contrast his campaign would have flopped like O'Malley's did.
I'm not really "disagreeing" with your assessment here. Just pointing out that my comment you responded to was predicated on the actual not potential 2016 Dem presidential field.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Social Security and Medicare I wouldn't put in the safety net category, but not so sure about Medicaid and CHIP.
I think the categorization approach makes sense. Medicaid and CHIP are included with all the other healthcare spending. Social Safety Net programs would include TANF (welfare), SNAP (food stamps), Unemployment Insurance, Section 8 Housing, etc.
Oh wait. Are you trying to factor in Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security into the mix even though that was NOT what we were discussing? I mean I could have sworn that I was very specific with my statement:
SS Disability (making up >1/3 of SS, now), Medicaid (used by >80% of those on welfare), and Medicare (parts A & B are used by the disabled), all have been compromised to add to the entitlement pile. Don't pretend like they haven't. WTF? See how quickly your "dime" just ballooned out to a quarter?
Do you think that this latest attempt to sidetrack the discussion is actually causing anyone to suddenly forget that you STILL haven't even addressed my fundamental point that welfare is NOT a major motivating factor in African-American voting patterns? Let alone refuted it? As I've stated before. You just aren't very good at this debate thing. As this clap back so aptly demonstrates.
Holy sweet Yeezy, you're dense! Of course it is, it's human nature. It's the fundamental aspect of the Left's platform: Wealth redistribution. Once you've "taxed the rich", how else do you think most of it gets "redistributed", osmosis?
I'll be charitable, it's via systems that attempt to fill the gap from the bottom > up, and that means more, and larger, entitlements. Of course people are being enticed by; "free" money, "free" college, "free" healthcare, "free" childcare, "free" food, etc. etc. and if you'd bothered to read those links you'd see how much damage it's done to blacks in particular, even to the point they feel such things are due them, simply for being in this country (hence the term "entitlement").
If I help him get elected, he's going to help me! Obama's gonna pay my mortgage!
Somebody needs to pay for my kids!
Only stupid people work if they get free money!
Gimme my food stamps! Gimme my damned check! They owe me!
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
I think the categorization approach makes sense. Medicaid and CHIP are included with all the other healthcare spending. Social Safety Net programs would include TANF (welfare), SNAP (food stamps), Unemployment Insurance, Section 8 Housing, etc.
OAW
To me, Medicaid sure walks and quacks like those ducks.
Hillary's a master of using both.
The results of generation upon generation of entitlement subsistence don't lie, unlike said politicians.
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