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What Money Making Opportunities Did You Miss Out On?
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akent35
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Sep 8, 2014, 01:51 PM
 
"I wish I could go back in time" is an old saying that many of us have thought about. For myself, there are at least two money making opportunities I missed, and for which I had some knowledge about. They are:

1. In the early 1960's, I started paying more and more attention to Professional Football, including the start and rise of the old American Football League (AFL). They struggled quite a bit in the beginning, but that league got stronger and stronger (although it took some slick maneuvering by the owners, and more financial investment). Still though, they were no match with the more established NFL in the first two Super Bowls. But, with Super Bowl 3, that all changed. I actually was stationed with the Air Force at that time in Cocoa Beach, Florida, about 120 miles north of Miami. I also could have got tickets to the game, but I honestly did not think the Jets had a chance. So, I did not go. But, the worst part is that it kept me away from betting on the Jets. If one had bet on the Jets, and took no points, they would have won a substantial amount of money, as the Colts were favored by 18 points! It turned out to be one of the biggest upsets in sports.

2. In the late 1990's, Apple was having issues, and was in trouble. I already had been a long time Apple user by that time, starting with the venerable Apple IIe in 1981, then upgrading to the Apple IIgs, and then finally to a Power Mac 6100 in 1996 (actually, in 1984, the place where I was working was one of the first companies to purchase the first ever Mac, and I used them from time to time). Well, Apple's stock at that time got as low as $25 a share (maybe even lower). I should have purchased a bunch of shares at that time, as by now, I would be wealthy!

Anyone else have others?
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 8, 2014, 02:37 PM
 
The only one I could have done much about, is buy apple stock. At the time, it seemed expensive and I didn't/don't know much about stocks. But I have a friend who did, and now is doing well.

Then there's always the job choices. 2 job offers; one full time, exactly my field, small shop; the other, part time, less my field, but at a nicer place. Where could I be working now had I chosen differently?
     
Mike Wuerthele
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Sep 8, 2014, 02:41 PM
 
I nearly threw in with the InfiniD people in the very early nineties to write their manual. Yeah, the guys that sold themselves to Kai for millions like eight years later.
     
subego
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Sep 8, 2014, 03:29 PM
 
Apple stock here. Kept on saying "I should buy some" to myself c. 2002.
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 8, 2014, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Then there's always the job choices. 2 job offers; one full time, exactly my field, small shop; the other, part time, less my field, but at a nicer place. Where could I be working now had I chosen differently?
My "missed" opportunity with jobs is similar, although I still got some of the "riches". I used to be a mainframe COBOL programmer when I was working, and as most people know, there was the "Year 2000 crisis". Basically, quite a bit of date-related code written in COBOL for business applications would not correctly handle the change in century from 1999 to 2000. This was especially critical at banks. Well, I did not get into that "financial" opportunity until May 1998, when I went to work as a contract programmer at a bank (also, for a former boss of mine). I was able to stay in that role for 4 years, before becoming a permanent employee for that bank. But, I always regret not getting into "the act" earlier.
     
davecom
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Sep 9, 2014, 05:27 AM
 
These are all minor regrets really, but here they are:

- I owned Apple stock at ~ $20/share and sold at ~ $36/share. I can't say I really feel that bad, because you shouldn't be greedy when you're way up... but I do believe in the company and always have...

- I knew about BitCoin before most people did and thought about mining some coins when it was still < $10/coin

- I was involved in the launch of an iPhone app at the App Store launch but didn't write one myself until 2 years later and pretty much missed the gold rush.

- I think right now is a new golden age for Mac software and I haven't written a Mac app in 10 years. I should try not to miss this one!
     
Shaddim
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Sep 9, 2014, 05:59 AM
 
Bitcoins, cryptocurrency caught me completely flat-footed.

Edit: Buy TSLA, it has legs to $350+. Muskasaurus Rex won't let them fail.
( Last edited by Shaddim; Sep 9, 2014 at 06:14 AM. )
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BLAZE_MkIV
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Sep 9, 2014, 09:11 AM
 
I bought TSLA a while back. It's up 750%. I only put in $500 though.
     
osiris
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Sep 9, 2014, 10:33 AM
 
I bought Apple stock at $13 and sold it at $86 - the money was needed for some unmemorable thing of great importance.

Also would've quadrupled my money had I invested in gold, way before the tide of "buy gold" advertising.

So if anyone needs financial counseling, feel free to call me.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
mattyb
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Sep 9, 2014, 05:12 PM
 
Not selling the shares that I bought in 2000 at £5 each sooner. They are now at 49p. That's Pence.

My Dad has a Eurotunnel Share Certificate in his study. The frame is worth more than the shares.
     
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Sep 10, 2014, 08:08 AM
 
Apple stock.

What hurts so much is I was trying to convince my folks in 2001-2004 to get onboard, but we couldn't afford anything.
     
osiris
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Sep 10, 2014, 01:21 PM
 
A common thread I see here is that many of us owned Apple stock, some during the dark days.
That's kind of cool, because we are partially responsible for keeping the company alive.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 10, 2014, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
A common thread I see here is that many of us owned Apple stock, some during the dark days.
That's kind of cool, because we are partially responsible for keeping the company alive.
I myself never owned Apple stock (wish I did, back in the late 90's), but I have been a consistent customer of Apple since the early 80's. I have never owned a Windows-based machine, nor will I ever own one. (This is especially ironic, as I live up in Microsoft country!). I did have the unfortunate experience of having to use them at my various places of employment. But, I always could not wait to get home and use my Apple machine. It was like heaven!
     
turtle777
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Sep 10, 2014, 05:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
A common thread I see here is that many of us owned Apple stock, some during the dark days.
That's kind of cool, because we are partially responsible for keeping the company alive.
Owning stock does nothing to keep a company alive.

-t
     
osiris
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Sep 10, 2014, 05:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Owning stock does nothing to keep a company alive.

-t
How is that?
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
turtle777
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Sep 10, 2014, 05:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
How is that?
The stock was sold long time ago, so somebody has to own it at all times.
The issuing company only benefits once, at the IPO.

-t
     
Brien
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Sep 10, 2014, 08:33 PM
 
Same here... Apple stock. Bought quite a bit in the late '90s. Should have bought a LOT more.
     
mattyb
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Sep 12, 2014, 11:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Owning stock does nothing to keep a company alive.
Unless you own such a large amount that you can change the CEO etc.
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 12, 2014, 03:29 PM
 
There was also the stock split, bringing in some income, right?
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 12, 2014, 03:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
There was also the stock split, bringing in some income, right?
Yes, assuming folks started buying the stock at the cheaper price. For existing owners, it initially did not change things, except they now had more shares. As the stock moved higher, they would make more money on a per share basis.
     
turtle777
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Sep 12, 2014, 06:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
There was also the stock split, bringing in some income, right?
Originally Posted by akent35 View Post
Yes, assuming folks started buying the stock at the cheaper price. For existing owners, it initially did not change things, except they now had more shares. As the stock moved higher, they would make more money on a per share basis.
No, stock splits don't benefit the issuing company at all in terms of money / cash.

The market value might rise if the stock prise rises, but that doesn't "keep the company alive" either.

-t
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 12, 2014, 06:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
No, stock splits don't benefit the issuing company at all in terms of money / cash.

The market value might rise if the stock prise rises, but that doesn't "keep the company alive" either.

-t
As I said, stock splits can help a company if people start buying the stock at the new price. Then, of course, more money starts coming in. But, I'm not saying it will necessarily keep the company alive. It can't hurt, though.
     
reader50
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Sep 12, 2014, 06:49 PM
 
What Money Making Opportunities Did You Miss Out On?
1. Poor choice of parents before being born. Could have picked ones way higher up the food chain.

Several others that people have mentioned, in no particular order. I saw Apple stock at $22 and didn't buy any. Didn't think BitCoin would go mainstream. And didn't think to invest in silver or gold before the big run-up.

I should have grabbed that duffle bag full of cash left on the corner for an hour, before the druggie boys remembered the pickup. Of course, that only happened in my imagination, and life might have been less rewarding if they found a witness.
     
turtle777
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Sep 12, 2014, 08:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by akent35 View Post
As I said, stock splits can help a company if people start buying the stock at the new price. Then, of course, more money starts coming in. But, I'm not saying it will necessarily keep the company alive. It can't hurt, though.
You obviously have no clue what stock splits are and how they work.

Please explain: what new money is coming in, and who receives it ?

And before you go off on a tangent: please read the context of this sub-thread: the claim that holding / owning stock would keep a company alive.

-t
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Sep 12, 2014, 10:43 PM
 
Companies do continue to sell stock after the IPO. Some of them even give it to employees on a regular ongoing basis.
     
turtle777
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Sep 12, 2014, 10:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV View Post
Companies do continue to sell stock after the IPO. Some of them even give it to employees on a regular ongoing basis.
The former is just another follow-up stock offering, diluting other shareholders.
It's a zero-sum game. Holding stock while the company issues more shares makes your "share" of the company less valuable, the stock price will (at least in the short run) drop.
A company can try that to keep itself afloat, but if that's the reason why they do it, the end game is pretty near.

The latter generally does NOT add cash for the company, but rather is an expense that drags down EPS. UNLESS they issue internal warrants or the like. But that would, again, dilute the share base, and therefore, make each share less valuable.

Again, I'm coming back to the original claim: buying / holding shares would keep "the company alive".

There just ain't such a thing.

-t
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Sep 12, 2014, 11:10 PM
 
Holding stock in the company will keep the companies stock price up. The company can then use internally held stock as collateral to borrow even more money from other source. Being able to borrow enough to weather bad times.
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 12, 2014, 11:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
You obviously have no clue what stock splits are and how they work.

Please explain: what new money is coming in, and who receives it ?

And before you go off on a tangent: please read the context of this sub-thread: the claim that holding / owning stock would keep a company alive.

-t
You obviously are ignorant of simple finances (also evident with your post above). Here is a simple explanation (not sure if you'll understand).

Suppose a stock is selling for $400 a share. That could be rather expensive for a "fair" amount of people. Suppose also that you hold 10 shares of that stock. If the company then does a stock split, the price per share goes down to $200. That could make it more attractive to new buyers. And, you now own 20 shares of stock.

If hardly any subsequent buying activity happens, then yes, the stock split has not helped anything. But, if shares now start to be purchased, then obviously more money is flowing into the company. As I said above (guess you have trouble reading that), such increased buying is not necessarily going to save the company. But, if the buying increases and increases, then the company could be saved.

There is also the possibility that existing stock holders could buy some more shares, especially if the stock starts to rise. And thus more money would be flowing in.

Again, I am NOT saying that a stock split will necessarily save a company. It just depends as to whether or not there is increased buying activity of the stock at the new, cheaper price.
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 12, 2014, 11:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV View Post
Holding stock in the company will keep the companies stock price up. The company can then use internally held stock as collateral to borrow even more money from other source. Being able to borrow enough to weather bad times.
Another good point.
     
turtle777
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Sep 13, 2014, 12:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by akent35 View Post
You obviously are ignorant of simple finances (also evident with your post above). Here is a simple explanation (not sure if you'll understand).

Suppose a stock is selling for $400 a share. That could be rather expensive for a "fair" amount of people. Suppose also that you hold 10 shares of that stock. If the company then does a stock split, the price per share goes down to $200. That could make it more attractive to new buyers. And, you now own 20 shares of stock.

If hardly any subsequent buying activity happens, then yes, the stock split has not helped anything. But, if shares now start to be purchased, then obviously more money is flowing into the company. As I said above (guess you have trouble reading that), such increased buying is not necessarily going to save the company. But, if the buying increases and increases, then the company could be saved.

There is also the possibility that existing stock holders could buy some more shares, especially if the stock starts to rise. And thus more money would be flowing in.




I give up.

-t
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 13, 2014, 01:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post




I give up.

-t
Narrow minded is as narrow minded does.
     
turtle777
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Sep 13, 2014, 01:25 AM
 
Edit: Ah, never mind. No need to pile on. It's bad enough already.

-t
     
mattyb
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Sep 15, 2014, 07:09 AM
 
akent, the shares that you bought were also bought by other people. So Mut Funds and private investors (amongst others) are the owners of the shares. Therefore even if you split (or not), buying a share in that company does not get the company any more money - the share has already been sold by the company at the IPO price (or around that price). I'm sure that turtle could explain better than I what happens when a company offers more shares, and shares of different types, but in terms of share splits they don't make any money.

However, when the share splits, my understanding was that the company could become more interesting for the buyer who has less money and therefore people would buy-in making the share rise from its split price. I don't know what the impact is for the company because afaik the dividend (if there is one) is also split. If with your insults you haven't alienated turtle, I'd love to hear his feedback about the share split impact on a company.
     
turtle777
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Sep 15, 2014, 10:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
However, when the share splits, my understanding was that the company could become more interesting for the buyer who has less money and therefore people would buy-in making the share rise from its split price. I don't know what the impact is for the company because afaik the dividend (if there is one) is also split.
You are absolutely right.

Stock splits have a variety of reasons and benefits, but none of them give the issuing company new funds (cash flow) or help them directly financially.

In general, stock splits make the stock look cheaper, but that's purely cosmetic. In a 2:1 split, Dividends per share get cut in half, other metrics that are calculated based on outstanding shared will as well (like EPS).
Other metrics stay the same (like Dividend yield), because mathematically, the number of outstanding shares gets eliminated from the equation.

Retail investors often think that a stock just "became chep", which obviously is nonsense, because value can't be measured by an absolute stock price.
However, sometimes, retail investors can't afford to buy a certain stock because the single share is too expensive (e.g. Berkshire Hathaway). A stock split might put the stock in a price range where they can afford a share.

To go back to the original point of holding stock will keep "a company alive":
Stock splits are very rare in situations where a company is struggeling. Typically, the share price is depressed when a company is struggeling. In most cases, stock splits happen when a company had a streak of very good results, and the share price climbed very high. I have never heard of a company doing a stock split in tough times and after many quarters of bad financial results.
Actually, the opposite is true: REVERSE stock splits typically happen in those times, because the stock price might get so low that a threat of de-listing from the exchange exists.

-t
     
mattyb
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Sep 15, 2014, 03:21 PM
 
Thankyou turtle.
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 15, 2014, 11:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
However, when the share splits, my understanding was that the company could become more interesting for the buyer who has less money and therefore people would buy-in making the share rise from its split price. I don't know what the impact is for the company because afaik the dividend (if there is one) is also split. If with your insults you haven't alienated turtle, I'd love to hear his feedback about the share split impact on a company.
That's EXACTLY what I have stated numerous times above. In fact, I said that at least 3 times! It's getting more and more amazing that a number of folks around here cannot read.

So, just so you and others understand, I'll just repeat what I said above:

"Yes, assuming folks started buying the stock at the cheaper price. For existing owners, it initially did not change things, except they now had more shares. As the stock moved higher, they would make more money on a per share basis."

"Suppose a stock is selling for $400 a share. That could be rather expensive for a "fair" amount of people. Suppose also that you hold 10 shares of that stock. If the company then does a stock split, the price per share goes down to $200. That could make it more attractive to new buyers. And, you now own 20 shares of stock.

If hardly any subsequent buying activity happens, then yes, the stock split has not helped anything. But, if shares now start to be purchased, then obviously more money is flowing into the company. As I said above (guess you have trouble reading that), such increased buying is not necessarily going to save the company. But, if the buying increases and increases, then the company could be saved."

So, one more time I'll say it. The new "split" price per share can now make it affordable to quite a few more people, and thus more shares would start to be purchased, thus bringing more money into the company. And, if the buying continues, then there is a good chance the stock price will rise higher and higher, and possibly get up to the pre-split price. Such a situation has happened to some companies, Microsoft being a good example.
     
turtle777
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Sep 16, 2014, 12:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by akent35 View Post
If hardly any subsequent buying activity happens, then yes, the stock split has not helped anything. But, if shares now start to be purchased, then obviously more money is flowing into the company. As I said above (guess you have trouble reading that), such increased buying is not necessarily going to save the company. But, if the buying increases and increases, then the company could be saved."


You seem to think that every time someone buys shares at the exchange, a mini IPO takes place.

Muahahahaha.

-t
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 16, 2014, 01:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post


You seem to think that every time someone buys shares at the exchange, a mini IPO takes place.

Muahahahaha.

-t
No narrow minded one! I specifically stated that "The new "split" price per share can now make it affordable to quite a few more people, thus bringing more money into the company". I used the words quite a few more people. Man, can't you read?
     
turtle777
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Sep 16, 2014, 01:34 AM
 




-t
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 16, 2014, 01:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post




-t
Narrow minded is as narrow minded does. Thanks so much for continuing to exhibit that. Given that it's the 20th anniversary of the excellent movie "Forrest Gump", and the well known sentence "Stupid is as stupid does", you are providing an excellent example of that.

Way to go!!
     
turtle777
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Sep 16, 2014, 02:46 AM
 
I'm honestly at a loss of words.

How do you muster that much confidence, despite your glaring ignorance on the subject matter ?
You must have been taught that as long as you pretend, you're going to be respected.

Well, whatever. You are an old fart that is stuck in his ways and beliefs.
Certainly, no amount of facts or explanation seems to get through.
So, carry on with your knowledge, which seems as robust as your backup strategy "SuperDuper".

-t
     
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Sep 16, 2014, 05:30 AM
 
The company makes nothing from a split, unless; the corp entity owns tons of its own stock (rare), it goes up due to the split (that doesn't always happen), and they sell it (generally they don't, but do offer it to loyal employees as incentives). Apple has bought back a lot of their shares over the years, but that's kind of unusual.
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Sep 16, 2014, 06:26 AM
 
Akent the part of what you're saying that is wrong and that you haven't explained is how other people buying and selling their shares in a company causes any flow of money back into that company at all. You keep stating it but you aren't identifying any mechanism for it.

The question you have to answer is whether I buy your 10 shares of Apple or your 20 split shares of Apple for $4000, how does Apple get any of that $4000? I'd be paying you. There might be some transaction fees but they'd go to a broker or the Exchange. Apple gets nothing.

The only reasons that the people running a company care about their stock price is if they own stock themselves, and to keep the other stock holders happy so they are left alone to run things how they want to without being sacked or interfered with. (Correct me if thats wrong please Turtle).
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Sep 16, 2014, 07:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by akent35 View Post
No narrow minded one! I specifically stated that "The new "split" price per share can now make it affordable to quite a few more people, thus bringing more money into the company". I used the words quite a few more people. Man, can't you read?
I know turtle is a bit overly aggressive when it comes to this stuff, but you are really quite in the wrong here.

I suggest you stop for a minute and re-read what other people (i.e. Turtle) have written.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
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Sep 16, 2014, 09:14 AM
 
Yeah, Shortcut, you're right. I got carried away. Dude definitely pushed my buttons.

-t
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 16, 2014, 12:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I'm honestly at a loss of words.

How do you muster that much confidence, despite your glaring ignorance on the subject matter ?
You must have been taught that as long as you pretend, you're going to be respected.

Well, whatever. You are an old fart that is stuck in his ways and beliefs.
Certainly, no amount of facts or explanation seems to get through.
So, carry on with your knowledge, which seems as robust as your backup strategy "SuperDuper".

-t
I am not at a loss for words. Instead, I am smiling , because you keep exhibiting Narrow minded is as narrow minded does. And, by you continuing to exhibit that, you are definitely first in line to be awarded thec MacNN Emmy for most Narrow Minded person ever!
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 16, 2014, 12:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Akent the part of what you're saying that is wrong and that you haven't explained is how other people buying and selling their shares in a company causes any flow of money back into that company at all. You keep stating it but you aren't identifying any mechanism for it.

The question you have to answer is whether I buy your 10 shares of Apple or your 20 split shares of Apple for $4000, how does Apple get any of that $4000? I'd be paying you. There might be some transaction fees but they'd go to a broker or the Exchange. Apple gets nothing.

The only reasons that the people running a company care about their stock price is if they own stock themselves, and to keep the other stock holders happy so they are left alone to run things how they want to without being sacked or interfered with. (Correct me if thats wrong please Turtle).
I have consistently made the point that the lower stock place could be the catalyst for increased buying of shares by folks who were previously priced out of the market. I did not say anything about selling.

Now, yes, it is obvious that if the net effect of the stock split, from an income perspective, is $0, then yes, what you say is correct. But, if there is more buying than selling, and the stock price goes up (happens quite often when a company (like Apple) is already healthy), then current stock holders are making money on their held shares.
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 16, 2014, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I suggest you stop for a minute and re-read what other people (i.e. Turtle) have written.
I have, but obviously people have not read what I have written.
     
turtle777
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Sep 16, 2014, 12:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by akent35 View Post
But, if there is more buying than selling, and the stock price goes up (happens quite often when a company (like Apple) is already healthy), then current stock holders are making money on their held shares.


I will continue to reply and point out the funny parts, for posterity.

Pray tell, how can more shares be bought than sold (if there is no IPO) ?
Where do these extra shares come from ?

-t
     
akent35  (op)
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Sep 16, 2014, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post


I will continue to reply and point out the funny parts, for posterity.

Pray tell, how can more shares be bought than sold (if there is no IPO) ?
Where do these extra shares come from ?

-t
And, I will continue to reply and show how narrow minded you are.

Simple example: Ten people own all the current stock in a company. They own 10 shares each (equals 100 shares. Can you understand that?), and the current per share price is $10. Hence, those people have a total of $1000 into the company.

Company now does a stock split, and the per share price becomes $5. Those original 10 people now have 20 shares each (thus a total of 200 shares), but the total value is still $1000. Now, let's say 5 new people purchase 5 shares each. That of course means that 25 new shares are being purchased, for a total of $125. Assuming the original 10 stock holders do not sell any of their shares, the total shares in the company is now 225 (200 for the original 10 share holders, and 25 for the new share holders).

The expectation of the company (assuming it is still in "good shape") is that more new share holders will be attracted, and also that the stock price per share will rise.

If, of course, the company does not do well, then no more new shares will be purchased, and the current share holders will either hold on to what they got, or sell them.

Simple enough for you, oh narrow minded one?
     
 
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