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Wiskedjak · May 8, 2011, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Chongo

This rejection of reason spelled the end of "Islam's Golden Age"

One could argue that there are similar movements within Western society today to reject reason and ostracize academia.

brassplayersrock² · May 8, 2011, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Wouldn't a sword be better than a knife since it has a bigger blade, and even better than both, the pen which is mightier than the sword?

Only if it's black.

turtle777 · May 8, 2011, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock²

Only if it's black.

The pen or the sword ?

-t

brassplayersrock² · May 8, 2011, 01:31 AM

Since they're debating if size matters or not.

Eug · May 8, 2011, 08:44 AM

Since he was his right hand man, I suspect Bert will now step in where Osama left off.

Uncle Skeleton · May 8, 2011, 11:19 AM

Osama was just a puppet monarch anyway, Bert was calling the shots the whole time. So in a way, nothing will change. But in another way, it will be an improvement to be facing an enemy who's not just a puppet for once.

Chongo · May 8, 2011, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

One could argue that there are similar movements within Western society today to reject reason and ostracize academia.

Examples?

Waragainstsleep · May 8, 2011, 12:13 PM

Creationism and ID top that list. And its not a matter of 'one could argue', its blatantly obvious. At least to those who haven't rejected reason or academia.

Chongo · 12:52 PM

St Thomas Aquinas would agree on not rejecting scholastics.

Doc HM · May 8, 2011, 04:09 PM

Meanwhile...

Radio 4 (UK) had a very good programme today with some reasoned debate on the legality of the whole US operation and how far can summary justice be regarded as any kind of justice. One of the contributors was a former WW2 Nuremberg war crimes investigator, now 91 but sounding about 50 and incredibly lucid.

He described walking into camps, seeing the bodies and the survivors and interrogating the guards. He recalled pulling his pistol on an unrepentant SS colonel but being unable to pull the trigger.

While acknowledging that the Nazi trial were flawed, (only a handful of people ever hanged) and most were sentenced to relatively short terms, and agreeing that the UN courts today have similar issues the underlying premiss was basically that it is always important to live by the rules of civilised society and that the worse the crime committed the more important it is not to give into summary revenge.

The US thought that trial was good enough for the Nazi elite, the Israelies tried to bring war criminals back for trial. Was Bin Laden any different? Surely putting him on trial would not so much be the best option for him but the best for America as a democratic entity.

Chongo · May 8, 2011, 04:35 PM

You can't arrest and try someone who never existed to begin with.

subego · May 8, 2011, 04:38 PM

^^ I agree conceptually, but I'm not sure how many people are worth sacrificing to take him alive.

ShortcutToMoncton · May 8, 2011, 05:10 PM

I wonder if the person who took "the shot" ever comes to light?

Sort of a modern-day Paul Tibbets figure...would be interesting.

Doc HM · May 8, 2011, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by subego

^^ I agree conceptually, but I'm not sure how many people are worth sacrificing to take him alive.

Probably none. But there is now some debate as to how much resistance was being put up. far from the vicious firefight there are now claims that the only shots fired were US ones, the ones that actually killed him.

Chongo · May 8, 2011, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

I wonder if the person who took "the shot" ever comes to light?

Sort of a modern-day Paul Tibbets figure...would be interesting.

More like Jack Ruby

Kerrigan · May 8, 2011, 11:14 PM

Considering that these spec ops guys have families, I doubt that they will release the name of the individual(s) who shot Bennie Laden.

ShortcutToMoncton · May 9, 2011, 06:47 AM

nvm

subego · 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Doc HM

Probably none. But there is now some debate as to how much resistance was being put up. far from the vicious firefight there are now claims that the only shots fired were US ones, the ones that actually killed him.

What are the sources here?

Veracity fight!

Edit: my off-the-cuff analysis is that since there are going to be numerous copies of the helmet-cam videos floating around, we'd be painting ourselves into a tight corner if what we say happened, and what the evidence shows, don't at least loosely match up.

Wiskedjak · May 9, 2011, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by subego

What are the sources here?

Veracity fight!

Edit: my off-the-cuff analysis is that since there are going to be numerous copies of the helmet-cam videos floating around, we'd be painting ourselves into a tight corner if what we say happened, and what the evidence shows, don't at least loosely match up.

I suspect those videos are going to be kept under a tight lock and key.

SpaceMonkey · May 9, 2011, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Doc HM

Probably none. But there is now some debate as to how much resistance was being put up. far from the vicious firefight there are now claims that the only shots fired were US ones, the ones that actually killed him.

He was within arms reach of a weapon, and these guys aren't cops.

subego · May 9, 2011, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

I suspect those videos are going to be kept under a tight lock and key.

I'm sure that's the plan. We'll see how they do.

Eug Wanker · May 14, 2011, 11:53 PM

Wiskedjak · May 15, 2011, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by subego

I'm sure that's the plan. We'll see how they do.

For something like this? The videos are probably locked away in the same place as the video of the man on the grassy knoll.

subego · May 15, 2011, 01:17 AM

Film's a physical object. We're talking about a stream of bits.

Dork. · May 15, 2011, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Ugh! That's disgusting! Beltran as a Yankee? Gross!

imitchellg5 · May 15, 2011, 05:34 PM

That is some mighty-fine journalism there.

k2director · May 17, 2011, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Well written, k2. We should form a MacNN Left Coast Conservatives Club.

It would probably be a club of 2, but great things start small!

brassplayersrock² · May 17, 2011, 10:00 AM

twss

SpaceMonkey · May 17, 2011, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Dork.

Ugh! That's disgusting! Beltran as a Yankee? Gross!

Agreed.

olePigeon · May 17, 2011, 11:04 AM

Edit: Nevermind.

Chongo · May 17, 2011, 06:44 PM

Interesting Mass intention. The report mentions other parishes have received this request as well.
Prayer request for Osama bin Laden at Catholic Church in West Palm Beach
The Bulletin
http://www.holynameofjesuschurch.net...2011-05-15.pdf

Dork. · May 17, 2011, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

Interesting Mass intention. The report mentions other parishes have received this request as well.
Prayer request for Osama bin Laden at Catholic Church in West Palm Beach
The Bulletin
http://www.holynameofjesuschurch.net...2011-05-15.pdf

What Would Jesus Do™? He would have prayed for him, too, of course.

Chongo · May 17, 2011, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Dork.

What Would Jesus Do™? He would have prayed for him, too, of course.

"You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

The pastor is going to honor the intention request, as he should.

ShortcutToMoncton · May 18, 2011, 07:23 AM

Totally weird - no where in there do I see "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, but still make sure to be thankful and give great praise when you finally hunt them down and kill them, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

Awkward finger pointing!

Chongo · May 18, 2011, 11:43 AM

Dork asked "WWJD?", "not what would the government do?"

ShortcutToMoncton · May 18, 2011, 01:27 PM

Come on. I might think Osama's death was awesome, but I doubt there is much you can find in the New Testament that validates the pleasure that "Christian" persons got out of his death - at least, judging by this board, anyway. In fact, I think it pretty much was in direct contradiction to anything you will find that qualifies as a "WWJD" teaching.

besson3c · May 18, 2011, 01:43 PM

The Dalia Lama even supports Bin Laden's death...

ebuddy · May 19, 2011, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

Come on. I might think Osama's death was awesome, but I doubt there is much you can find in the New Testament that validates the pleasure that "Christian" persons got out of his death - at least, judging by this board, anyway. In fact, I think it pretty much was in direct contradiction to anything you will find that qualifies as a "WWJD" teaching.

This really illustrates how difficult it is to compartmentalize Jesus' teachings, but how necessary it is to do so in accusing those that claim adherence to His principles. Chongo touched on it by citing the difference between personal behaviors and that as a member of a State. i.e. Vengeance vs Justice. Jesus did not say that if one were to strike your daughter or your neighbor, turn to them your other daughter or neighbor. The teachings refer to how one should act when one has been wronged, not how one should act when many have been wronged by evil. Scripture (in this case the NT) teaches that your government acts as a minister of God's wrath on evil and that it does not draw the sword for nothing. To sum up; if you have been wronged, do not seek revenge because God will handle it. If your State has been wronged by evil, your governing authority may commission you to seek justice under the ministering authority of God. Now, this does not mean that your government is acting in good faith or truly seeking Justice and not only will they be judged by God, their actions should be judged by God's elect among mankind in accord with the lawful means of airing our grievances.

Scripture does not require one to dance in the streets over the death of another, but Scripture alone will not stop mankind from being mankind. This is not an indictment against Scripture, but against sinful man. After all, we (Christian or non-Christian) cannot live up to our own dictates let alone those of God. Christians do not put themselves on this pedestal, you do.

ebuddy · May 19, 2011, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

The Dalia Lama even supports Bin Laden's death...

Does he support how Bin Laden's death was carried out?

ShortcutToMoncton · May 19, 2011, 08:09 AM

Well yes, I wasn't really being critical. Just gently pointing it out.

Interesting observations on "the state." Where in the NT do you get that from?

greg

Chongo · May 19, 2011, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

Well yes, I wasn't really being critical. Just gently pointing it out.

Interesting observations on "the state." Where in the NT do you get that from?

greg

Letter to the Romans
Romans 13 "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is..." RSVA - Online Bible Study

ShortcutToMoncton · May 19, 2011, 12:40 PM

Many thanks - doesn't have the flow of "render unto Caesar" though eh?

Dork. · May 1, 2012, 05:06 PM

I'd like to take a moment to reflect on how awesome I was for starting this thread exactly one year ago today. Mitt Romney totally wouldn't have had the balls to start a thread like this!

hyteckit · May 1, 2012, 10:34 PM

Killing Bin Laden was Mitt Romney's idea.

So is bailing out wall street.

According to Mitt Romney's camp that is.

Waragainstsleep · May 2, 2012, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Killing Bin Laden was Mitt Romney's idea.

So is bailing out wall street.

According to Mitt Romney's camp that is.

Don't forget sliced bread, the laughter of children and Jesus.

lpkmckenna · May 2, 2012, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Killing Bin Laden was Mitt Romney's idea.

So is bailing out wall street.

According to Mitt Romney's camp that is.

It's incredible what a fncking conniving assh0le Rmoney is. But of course he's the Republican candidate, whose supporters are mostly morons, so they will never even notice.

Shaddim · May 2, 2012, 09:38 PM

Pfftt... Mitt is just Barack without the tan. Idiots on both sides are too blind to see it, and that includes the boobies from other lands who are so bored with their own country that they purposely mire themselves in the wasteland of US politics.

turtle777 · May 3, 2012, 12:14 AM

^ da truth.

-t

lpkmckenna · May 3, 2012, 12:34 AM

Politically, Canada IS boring. Which is waaaaay better than a nation destroying itself like the U.S. has been doing.

And to pretend there's no difference between the Democrats and the Republican (or Rmoney and Obama) is fncking delusional. But I expect nothing less from reality-impaired Ron Paul supporters.

besson3c · May 3, 2012, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Pfftt... Mitt is just Barack without the tan. Idiots on both sides are too blind to see it, and that includes the boobies from other lands who are so bored with their own country that they purposely mire themselves in the wasteland of US politics.

It's not boredom, it's the fact that US politics impact other countries. For one, the US gets involves in wars and coerces others to join. For another, they have economic boom and bust periods that impact the global economy.